Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Mithrandir

Ayatollah Khamenei On Mutah

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

BismillahirRahmanirRaheem.

 Salam 'Alaykum.

 

I don't think I've kept track of the number of posts I've read in the last couple of days on the topic of mutah and nikah. I already got the answers to most of my questions, but there's one question that is still nagging me.

 

I follow Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and with regards to him I'd like to know the ruling in the following hypothetical situations.

 

Scenario#1: I like a Sunni girl, who in turn likes me back. Fearing Allah, we decide not to have a haram relationship. I tell her about mutah and manage to convince her using historical sources. She starts believing that it is a legitimate practice in Islam. The catch however is that she is a virgin, and her father--being a Sunni--views mutah as a form of legalized prostitution/fornication. What should we do? Would mutah no longer be an option, or would we be allowed to go through with it despite not having permission?

 

Scenario#2: Same as Scenario#1 except that this time around, the father believes mutah is perfectly halal. However, he refuses to give permission due to unislamic reasons, ie I'm not a doctor, I don't have enough money, not from same ethnic background, etc etc. What is the ruling on the permissibility of mutah in this case?

 

Any links to Fatwas by Ayatollah Khamenei regarding this issue would be highly appreciated.

 

p.s.I am aware of the rulings by Seyyid Sistani, Ayatollah Al Hakim, and Ayatollah Fadhlallah on this issue.

 

Salam.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not permissible for you in both situations, Mutah marriage is not the same as permanent marriage, the father has a right to keep his daughter virgin and save her for a permanent marriage rather than ruin her life by marrying her to someone for a fixed term.

 

If she is a virgin then you must have her father's permission for a Mutah, no other way around this. It is also Islamic for the father to just say no to you because it is a Mutah marriage.

 

Just propose and get married permanently for God's sake and God will provide you with Rizq.

 

If you are scared of Permanent marriage then do Mutah with a prostitute, Khamanei has ruled it as Makrooh.

Edited by Khalilallah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Salaam,
 
I agree with everything Khalilallah said, except the last sentence.
 
Regarding scenario #2, it's one thing if you want to marry permanently, and the father refuses due to an issue like ethnicity.  But in my opinion, it is a valid "Islamic reason" if he refuses to let you do mutah, because of his belief that a mutah would greatly hurt his daughter's chances at finding a quality permanent husband in the future. 
 
 

If you are scared of Permanent marriage then do Mutah with a prostitute, Khamanei has ruled it as Makrooh.

 

Bro, I really think you should not casually give out advice about that issue with just a short phrase about it (you mentioned it in another thread recently too).
 
There are more issues & context to it than what you wrote, but if someone reads this (not the OP, but just anyone) and takes your advice based on that, that wouldn't be good... it could lead them astray (they have a responsibility to look into it themselves, but the fact is that not everyone does).
 
For one thing, the prostitute would still have to be a "person of the book"... so either Muslim, Christian, or Jew.  And considering how many people nowadays are agnostic or atheist, that's not going to be simple to find anyway.  Plus, sex outside of marriage is wrong in all 3 religions, so being a prostitute is a huge problem for anyone who professes to be of those faiths.
 
Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread because it's not an issue that relates to the threadstarter (I don't think he's even from a Western country), so I've written more on this topic here:
Edited by Bright

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If she is a virgin then you must have her father's permission for a Mutah, no other way around this.

 

This clearly isn't true since other marjas allow mutah without the father's permission. You should be careful about giving absolute statements on this, when there are all kinds of different opinions out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This clearly isn't true since other marjas allow mutah without the father's permission. You should be careful about giving absolute statements on this, when there are all kinds of different opinions out there.

 

Ayatollah Roohani is an example 

Edited by -Enlightened

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This clearly isn't true since other marjas allow mutah without the father's permission. You should be careful about giving absolute statements on this, when there are all kinds of different opinions out there.

 

I was going to say the same thing, but instead i will add to it.

 

If i remember correctly(people need to check this) Ayatollah Khamenei says its Ihtiyat Wajib to get the fathers permission. In the cases of Ihtiyat Wajib, you can refer to other Marjas you deem to be knowledgeable and follow their ruling instead. 

 

That being said, many people abuse this and go find a marja that has ruled in their favor. That's not how it works............pick the marja/marjas before you actually know their ruling ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why don't you send your situation to Sayed Khameneis office on www.leader.ir , or call his local representative or a Sheikh or Sayed that know these situations, rather than having the whole forum know about your future sexual adventures?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The two most respected and followed marjaa' currently (Sayid Khameni and Sayyid Sistani) both have the same fatwa on this. They say it is Ihtiyyat Wujubiyyat to get father's permission in this case, meaning that you can follow the fatwa of another marjaa', such as Sayyid Rohani, who allows you to marry without the father's permission. Neither one says it is wajib. They are not saying you should marry without the father's permission, and it is always a good idea to get the father's permission, but it is not an absolute requirement, should the father decide to object for unislamic reasons, as often happens. There is no distinction whether the girl is virgin or not, or whether it is mutah or zawajtul nikah or whether the girl is shia or sunni.  

 

But let me read between the lines here, in case there are some guys who misunderstand this fatwa. Lying or misrepresenting your intentions, especially in this case, is very vile and disgusting (from an Islamic point of view), and also haram. If you are planning to do mutah with a virgin, and in your mind it is only a short term thing, you better be honest with her about you intention and if you can't be honest about your intentions, then absolutely don't do it. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

 

ln a simiIar vane to a few posts above:

 

 

 

I'd rather save my money than chase skirts.

 

 

 

Edit:

 

I just remembered from reading a biography on Ayat. Khomnei:

 

He disapproved of mutah. This was reflected in this biography by his known expressing disapproval of other religious students doing this, he didn't do it himself, and when his wife was asked about their relationship -(I think she reiterated the foregoing)- she said he was a virgin.

Edited by hasanhh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

such as Sayyid Rohani, who allows you to marry without the father's permission. 

 

Isn't that only if the girl is "rashida" though?  

 

If you take the threadstarter's age into account, it's quite unlikely that the girl is, in this case...

 

My understanding is that "rashida" means the girl manages her own financial affairs... she has a job, lives on her own, pays her own bills, etc.  Teenage girls are rarely in that situation.

 

 

OP, I think you will find this thread quite relevant to you:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235001755-is-this-permitted-without-the-fathers-permission/

 

...and it will help you consider quite a lot of factors.  

 

For example, from skimming most of that thread, I see the guy's parents had an issue with the girl being Moroccan instead of Iraqi (she also had Sunni parents, although she had become Shia).  And the guy was talking about how his mom will want him to marry an Iraqi girl in the future, in which case he and the girl would have to "break-up" later.  

 

And as people pointed out in the thread, if that's the case and he really cares about her, why do mutah with her and break a teenage girl's heart later + likely create future troubles for her when she tries to get married permanently when she's older?  

[As such, he decided not to pursue it... But then later on, the guy's mom apparently liked the girl, and they hopefully lived happily ever after]

 

 

Anyway, you should read the whole thread, because it does seem quite relevant to you

(I found it when I did a search at the top-right of Rohani and mutah).

 

 

Here are some of my other views on the issue:

 

- For both scenarios, if you feel her father will say no just due to something like ethnicity or not being a doctor... then you can't simply "not ask" just because you assume he'll say no, or just because he's Sunni.  I think you would still have to ask, and then deal with it after that... I think he deserves a chance to at least say yes or no (in the above case, the father actually did give permission).   An exception may be if he doesn't really have anything to do with his daughter's life (more likely in a case of divorce, and the girl lives with her mom), in which case I think at least the mom (or some "wali"/guardian) should be consulted, whether it's technically required religiously or not.

 

- I also think you should put yourself in his shoes. If you were a father and had a teenage daughter, and some guy from another sect convinced her to get married without even consulting you, how would you feel?  And strategically, if you go ahead with it without even asking, I really don't think that would be good for the future marriage, nor the girl's relationship with her father.

 

- This one doesn't relate to you, but may to some random person who reads this post:  If the girl had an inappropriate relationship previously and is no longer a virgin, the rules of a virgin still apply to her (i.e. father's permission required [except perhaps if "rashida"], etc.).

 

 

As I said, those are just my views (except the last one, which is the general ruling, I think).

 

But the value of threads like this is that people can get an in-depth idea of the various issues & considerations involved... and that way, you can think it over, and it can help you decide on what specific questions to ask of the scholars.

 

And once you get what you need from this topic thread, I do think you should contact the specific scholars directly, just to get their rulings directly as well, because this is major decision for your life + the girl's life

(compared a minor issue, like finding out if some food ingredient is halal or not).

Edited by Bright

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you fear Allah you would not have had a haram relationship with the girl.

(salam)

Why did you assume I "had" a haram relationship with her? Like I said, these are hypothetical situations that I thought up for the sake of inquiry. Since I live in a Sunni area, I wanted to know the ruling on such an issue if I ever found myself in such a situation.

 

 

Salams bro,

 

I just sent you a private message. Hopefully this should help you in your query.

 

Salman

 

 Thank you brother, it helped a lot.

 

 

Then why don't you marry her?

 

Because she doesn't exist. I created this thread to so that I could know of what to do in the context of temporary marriage. Besides, who lets their daughter marry an 18 year old in a permanent marriage? Where I'm from, dating would be preferred at this age--even by Muslim parents, albiet in a conservative way(don't ask).

 

 

It is not permissible for you in both situations, Mutah marriage is not the same as permanent marriage, the father has a right to keep his daughter virgin and save her for a permanent marriage rather than ruin her life by marrying her to someone for a fixed term.

 

If she is a virgin then you must have her father's permission for a Mutah, no other way around this. It is also Islamic for the father to just say no to you because it is a Mutah marriage.

 

Just propose and get married permanently for God's sake and God will provide you with Rizq.

 

If you are scared of Permanent marriage then do Mutah with a prostitute, Khamanei has ruled it as Makrooh.

 

I agree with you, brother. I would propose if either my parents or hers consented to Mutah. Me being a Shia is not known to them.

 

As for doing mutah with a prostitute, perhaps I should have clarified this in my first post--I had non sexual mutah in mind. This is just so I can get to know the girl better before bringing a formal marriage proposal to her family.

 

It shouldn't always be about sex.

 

 

Why don't you send your situation to Sayed Khameneis office on www.leader.ir , or call his local representative or a Sheikh or Sayed that know these situations, rather than having the whole forum know about your future sexual adventures?

 

I'd asked a question a long time ago(before I became Shia) and it took a loooong time to get an answer. As for my "future sexual adventures", I would prefer if you didn't call it that. I asked this question to amass information, which is why I said in my first post the situations were hypothetical.

 

The two most respected and followed marjaa' currently (Sayid Khameni and Sayyid Sistani) both have the same fatwa on this. They say it is Ihtiyyat Wujubiyyat to get father's permission in this case, meaning that you can follow the fatwa of another marjaa', such as Sayyid Rohani, who allows you to marry without the father's permission. Neither one says it is wajib. They are not saying you should marry without the father's permission, and it is always a good idea to get the father's permission, but it is not an absolute requirement, should the father decide to object for unislamic reasons, as often happens. There is no distinction whether the girl is virgin or not, or whether it is mutah or zawajtul nikah or whether the girl is shia or sunni.  

 

But let me read between the lines here, in case there are some guys who misunderstand this fatwa. Lying or misrepresenting your intentions, especially in this case, is very vile and disgusting (from an Islamic point of view), and also haram. If you are planning to do mutah with a virgin, and in your mind it is only a short term thing, you better be honest with her about you intention and if you can't be honest about your intentions, then absolutely don't do it. 

Thank you, brother. I found this extremely helpful. I would not engage in a physical mutah with a Sunni girl because I know how my culture teats non-virgins, and the reason I asked this question in the first place is if I ever wanted to get to know someone as a person before getting married. My fault for not mentioning that little caveat.

 

 

 

 

Isn't that only if the girl is "rashida" though?  

 

If you take the threadstarter's age into account, it's quite unlikely that the girl is, in this case...

 

My understanding is that "rashida" means the girl manages her own financial affairs... she has a job, lives on her own, pays her own bills, etc.  Teenage girls are rarely in that situation.

 

 

OP, I think you will find this thread quite relevant to you:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235001755-is-this-permitted-without-the-fathers-permission/

 

...and it will help you consider quite a lot of factors.  

 

For example, from skimming most of that thread, I see the guy's parents had an issue with the girl being Moroccan instead of Iraqi (she also had Sunni parents, although she had become Shia).  And the guy was talking about how his mom will want him to marry an Iraqi girl in the future, in which case he and the girl would have to "break-up" later.  

 

And as people pointed out in the thread, if that's the case and he really cares about her, why do mutah with her and break a teenage girl's heart later + likely create future troubles for her when she tries to get married permanently when she's older?  

[As such, he decided not to pursue it... But then later on, the guy's mom apparently liked the girl, and they hopefully lived happily ever after]

 

 

Anyway, you should read the whole thread, because it does seem quite relevant to you

(I found it when I did a search at the top-right of Rohani and mutah).

 

 

Here are some of my other views on the issue:

 

- For both scenarios, if you feel her father will say no just due to something like ethnicity or not being a doctor... then you can't simply "not ask" just because you assume he'll say no, or just because he's Sunni.  I think you would still have to ask, and then deal with it after that... I think he deserves a chance to at least say yes or no (in the above case, the father actually did give permission).   An exception may be if he doesn't really have anything to do with his daughter's life (more likely in a case of divorce, and the girl lives with her mom), in which case I think at least the mom (or some "wali"/guardian) should be consulted, whether it's technically required religiously or not.

 

- I also think you should put yourself in his shoes. If you were a father and had a teenage daughter, and some guy from another sect convinced her to get married without even consulting you, how would you feel?  And strategically, if you go ahead with it without even asking, I really don't think that would be good for the future marriage, nor the girl's relationship with her father.

 

- This one doesn't relate to you, but may to some random person who reads this post:  If the girl had an inappropriate relationship previously and is no longer a virgin, the rules of a virgin still apply to her (i.e. father's permission required [except perhaps if "rashida"], etc.).

 

 

As I said, those are just my views (except the last one, which is the general ruling, I think).

 

But the value of threads like this is that people can get an in-depth idea of the various issues & considerations involved... and that way, you can think it over, and it can help you decide on what specific questions to ask of the scholars.

 

And once you get what you need from this topic thread, I do think you should contact the specific scholars directly, just to get their rulings directly as well, because this is major decision for your life + the girl's life

(compared a minor issue, like finding out if some food ingredient is halal or not).

 

 

Salam, your post helped me better understand the situation. And I'm happy that you actually took my age into account when you posted this.

 

The thing is, most Sunni fathers don't want their daughters dating. Despite this, most of them end up dating up multiple boys in high school anyways. To them marriage is out of the question. I know that in the in near future, I may actually end up having to marry a Sunni girl. To ensure marital compatibility with someone who shares a different world view from my own, I'd want to know her better before tying the the permanent knot. 

 

Salam.

Edited by Shahreem Ahsan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Salaam,

 

Bro, I really think you should not casually give out advice about that issue with just a short phrase about it (you mentioned it in another thread recently too).
 
There are more issues & context to it than what you wrote, but if someone reads this (not the OP, but just anyone) and takes your advice based on that, that wouldn't be good... it could lead them astray (they have a responsibility to look into it themselves, but the fact is that not everyone does).
 
For one thing, the prostitute would still have to be a "person of the book"... so either Muslim, Christian, or Jew.  And considering how many people nowadays are agnostic or atheist, that's not going to be simple to find anyway.  Plus, sex outside of marriage is wrong in all 3 religions, so being a prostitute is a huge problem for anyone who professes to be of those faiths.
 
Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread because it's not an issue that relates to the threadstarter (I don't think he's even from a Western country), so I've written more on this topic here:

 

I gave that advice but I told him about Khamanei's fatwa as a last option, in a dilemma where a brother is faced with either fall to sin or Mutah then clearly Mutah is the right choice and it becomes Wajib on the person, even if the women is a prostitute as long as she is kitabi, also I am sure all prostitutes are willing to say the shahada on the spot for an amount of money, since they do worse things for money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...