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NaveenHussain

Great Video On Feminism

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I think what he says about people becoming reliant on two wages is true, but thats partly down to peoples expectations of having a materialistic lifestyle. Anyone who ends up in repetetive factory work is unlikely to have a high amount of job satisfaction, man or woman. The state takes your children at 4-5 and plunges them into the education system, so thats your 'nanny' from then until the age of 16. What with the energy saving advances in domestic technology, theres not a lot for a house wife to do nowadays, so a paid (part time or full time) or volunteer occupation can prove to be very rewarding, so it disingenuous to talk about work as only having 1 function for people (to bring in money), for many it is more than that. Men generally take on a bigger role when it comes to raising children than they used to also, so i think it unfair to suggest that theyre still coming home and expecting their wives to keep the kids out of the way while they chill. Couples tend to split duties and seem to magically make it work. My mum worked from her mid-teens and enjoyed her working life so much that when the government forced her to retire she was devastated. She loved the social aspect of it and the purpose she found in helping people. A couple of years later they raised the age of retirement and she went straight back. I think the opportunities that a working life can bring + the independence of earning your own wage has greater value to many people than copious amounts of leisure time, so to have the choice to do that is important.

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What the presenter is talking about is the overall effect of feminism on society. There is always the outlying case, such as your family may have been one. If you have a family where the husband and wife have a spectacular marriage, are both open minded and willing to work together and compromise, both have occupations that they enjoy and that pay well, then I agree that the dual income model will work. For the overwhelming majority of families, one or more of those factors are missing, which means that this model wouldn't work out very well. This model is not a robust one, meaning that a slight change from the ideal, in terms of conditions, will produce an outcome that is worse than the historic economic model of the family, i.e. the man going out and earning a living and the women staying home and taking care of the house and raising the children. 

 

In my case, my mother worked but the outcome was totally different than yours. She was forced to work because after my parent's divorce when I was six years old, my father refused to help us financially. So both me, my brother, and my sister saw neither of our parents very frequently (I don't blame my mom because she was forced to do this), we did very poorly in school (until I got in my second year of high school and became self motivated) and my brother and I got into a lot of trouble and were put in alot of bad situations that we could have avoided had we had parent there to guide us and look after us. 

 

So because of feminism(partially), my mother working, and also my parent's  divorce were seen as normal and acceptable in society and we suffered the consequences of this norm, whereas in my grandparent's generation both these things were seen as 'not normal' (both my mothers parents and fathers parents were married for more than 50 years) and I can't help thinking that if I was raised in that generation, maybe the immense social pressures would have forced my father and mother to work it out and for my father to support us and I would have had a much more happy and stable childhood and it wouldn't have taken me decades to overcome 'issues' that I probably wouldn't have had in the first place. ( I talked about some of these issues here before). What I found out later in life, is that my childhood situation was much closer to the norm than yours was. 

 

What this has manifest itself as in the current generation, in the US at least amoung non muslims, is that they saw the chaos and hardship that 'modern families' brought to the world and they are doing everything possible to not even reproduce in the first place. Amoung the generation that came after me, you don't even hear people talking about marriage or having children(Again, I'm talking about non muslims). They think the solution is just not to have a family whereas the solution is to have a family value system that is based on Divine guidance, i.e. Islam, where the rights of all are protected. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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My families case was the norm where im from. I wouldnt say my parents had a spectacular marriage (in fact when i was 10 i very much wanted them to divorce), they had issues like most people, but worked at it and got through them. From what ive read, the divorce rates in the USA in the '80's were roughly 50%, so your situation would have been as normal nationally as being from a family that was still together. I dont know that forcing couples to be together that would other wise split is necessarily a good thing. It may have been that in your case your parents could have worked things out with more social pressure to try to - this is a problem i know. It seems that the biggest problem was your fathers unwillingness to support his family after the divorce (?). I dont see that feminism in itself is the reason for the rise in divorce rates, i think its more down to a greater social acceptance of divorce, like you say, and peoples expectations of marriage and being less willing to sacrifice personal preferences, happiness or desires simply to keep the family together. Its probably true that women are less likely to put up with being treated badly in marriages now and are now as likely as men to pursue personal happiness in exchange for a secure family life for their children, but that is about psychology of people and whether or not you believe people should have that self determination. I would also say people who are not prepared to compromise in their marriages are rare, with most people being flexible in their roles to some extent.

Neither of my parents had particularly well paid jobs either. My dad was a blue collar worker and my mum was a receptionist. In terms of the lowest paid jobs, 2 people working puts a family in a better deal than it would have 100 years ago. We've forgotten the kind of poverty poor families used to live in in this country, but a factory worker with a wife who doesnt work and children would have been scratching a living and would have been exposed to all the health issues that came with that existence and would likely have been relying on some kind of charity too. With the welfare state came greater support for struggling families of course. My mum worked part time btw and didnt need a full time job because they were quite careful with money, but she didnt work just for the money; it meant a lot to her to have the purpose she did and the social interaction. She was actually quite shy when she was in her teens, but working and having my brother lead to her confidence flourishing and she is known as an out going and positive person and very popular. I dont feel i suffered for her working at all. She would take me to school and my dad would bring me home and give me my dinner and it worked well alhamdullillah.

 

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What the presenter is talking about is the overall effect of feminism on society. There is always the outlying case, such as your family may have been one. If you have a family where the husband and wife have a spectacular marriage, are both open minded and willing to work together and compromise, both have occupations that they enjoy and that pay well, then I agree that the dual income model will work. For the overwhelming majority of families, one or more of those factors are missing, which means that this model wouldn't work out very well. This model is not a robust one, meaning that a slight change from the ideal, in terms of conditions, will produce an outcome that is worse than the historic economic model of the family, i.e. the man going out and earning a living and the women staying home and taking care of the house and raising the children. 

 

In my case, my mother worked but the outcome was totally different than yours. She was forced to work because after my parent's divorce when I was six years old, my father refused to help us financially. So both me, my brother, and my sister saw neither of our parents very frequently (I don't blame my mom because she was forced to do this), we did very poorly in school (until I got in my second year of high school and became self motivated) and my brother and I got into a lot of trouble and were put in alot of bad situations that we could have avoided had we had parent there to guide us and look after us. 

 

So because of feminism(partially), my mother working, and also my parent's  divorce were seen as normal and acceptable in society and we suffered the consequences of this norm, whereas in my grandparent's generation both these things were seen as 'not normal' (both my mothers parents and fathers parents were married for more than 50 years) and I can't help thinking that if I was raised in that generation, maybe the immense social pressures would have forced my father and mother to work it out and for my father to support us and I would have had a much more happy and stable childhood and it wouldn't have taken me decades to overcome 'issues' that I probably wouldn't have had in the first place. ( I talked about some of these issues here before). What I found out later in life, is that my childhood situation was much closer to the norm than yours was. 

 

What this has manifest itself as in the current generation, in the US at least amoung non muslims, is that they saw the chaos and hardship that 'modern families' brought to the world and they are doing everything possible to not even reproduce in the first place. Amoung the generation that came after me, you don't even hear people talking about marriage or having children(Again, I'm talking about non muslims). They think the solution is just not to have a family whereas the solution is to have a family value system that is based on Divine guidance, i.e. Islam, where the rights of all are protected. 

Maashaa'llah! Your past seems very similar to mine. Walking a tougher path may lead to resilience. 

AoA

Please give link, that site is restricted here by the server:(

Edited by NaveenHussain

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