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Mithrandir

Any Naqshbandis Here?

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I was wondering if there were any murids of the Naqshbandia sufi order on this forum. Prior to converting to Shi'ism, I was part of the Naqshbandi Sufi Way.

How do guys reconcile shia doctrine with those of the naqshbandia?

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I was wondering if there were any murids of the Naqshbandia sufi order on this forum. Prior to converting to Shi'ism, I was part of the Naqshbandi Sufi Way.

How do guys reconcile shia doctrine with those of the naqshbandia?

 

Aren't the Naqshbandi straight Sunni and trace their silsila through Abu Bakr? Or are there Shi'a branches?

 

Either way, Shi'a don't normally join formal Sufi orders due to historic antagonisms between the Sufi sheikhs and other ulama. More generalized or informal mystical studies as taught in the different seminaries tend to be more popular, if only because they avoid the trigger word "Sufism," and thus have broader appeal. There are some Shi'a-Sufi Orders that are still around though.

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Aren't the Naqshbandi straight Sunni and trace their silsila through Abu Bakr? Or are there Shi'a branches?

 

Either way, Shi'a don't normally join formal Sufi orders due to historic antagonisms between the Sufi sheikhs and other ulama. More generalized or informal mystical studies as taught in the different seminaries tend to be more popular, if only because they avoid the trigger word "Sufism," and thus have broader appeal. There are some Shi'a-Sufi Orders that are still around though.

 Yep, the naqshbandi are conservative sunnis, and it is the only order that expresses interest in politics(many of the the ottoman caliphs were naqshbandi murids).

The main branch traces itself to Abu Bakr, although I've heard of branches in the order that trace themselves to Imam Ali(a.s.) instead.

Dr.Seyyed Hossein Nasr explains that the Persian Sufi Poet Jami, who was the most famous Sufi of his time as well as the head of the Naqshbandi Order, belonged to a branch that had its Silsila beginning with Imam Ali(a.s.). I'm afraid I don't remember which book it was that I read.

The problem for me now is figuring out if I'm still part of the Tariqa. Does me being Shi'a automatically expel me or am I still part of it. If I'm still in the Order, how do I align myself with a Shia Sufi Order since sufi sheikhs dont take murids who already have bayyah with another sheikh.

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 Yep, the naqshbandi are conservative sunnis, and it is the only order that expresses interest in politics(many of the the ottoman caliphs were naqshbandi murids).

The main branch traces itself to Abu Bakr, although I've heard of branches in the order that trace themselves to Imam Ali(a.s.) instead.

Dr.Seyyed Hossein Nasr explains that the Persian Sufi Poet Jami, who was the most famous Sufi of his time as well as the head of the Naqshbandi Order, belonged to a branch that had its Silsila beginning with Imam Ali(a.s.). I'm afraid I don't remember which book it was that I read.

 

I'm not a big fan of Naqshbandi to be perfectly honest. I've heard quite a bit of anti-Shi'ite rhetoric from some of their speakers and leaders.

 

 

The problem for me now is figuring out if I'm still part of the Tariqa. Does me being Shi'a automatically expel me or am I still part of it. If I'm still in the Order, how do I align myself with a Shia Sufi Order since sufi sheikhs dont take murids who already have bayyah with another sheikh.

 

That must be a Naqshbandi thing. I know plenty of people who have been initiated into more than one tariqa either at the same time or after leaving one for the other.

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I'm not a big fan of Naqshbandi to be perfectly honest. I've heard quite a bit of anti-Shi'ite rhetoric from some of their speakers and leaders.

 

 

 

That must be a Naqshbandi thing. I know plenty of people who have been initiated into more than one tariqa either at the same time or after leaving one for the other.

Yeah, the "sheikh never leaving you" thing is exclusive to naqshabandis. Kind of makes me want to bang my head on the wall till I pass out...

I wonder if any other tariqa would have a problem initiating me into their ranks.

Right now, many of the naqshbandis are preaching a sort of antiwoman doctrine that reeks of turkish mysogyny. I don't know, but smearing half of the muslim population as "brainless, talkative weaklings" doesn't seem like a very spiritual thing to do.The only thing they got going for them is a rich past and rather nice clothes  :mellow:

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I was wondering if there were any murids of the Naqshbandia sufi order on this forum. Prior to converting to Shi'ism, I was part of the Naqshbandi Sufi Way.

How do guys reconcile shia doctrine with those of the naqshbandia?

who was your Naqshabandi shaykh?

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Yeah, the "sheikh never leaving you" thing is exclusive to naqshabandis. Kind of makes me want to bang my head on the wall till I pass out...

I wonder if any other tariqa would have a problem initiating me into their ranks.

Right now, many of the naqshbandis are preaching a sort of antiwoman doctrine that reeks of turkish mysogyny. I don't know, but smearing half of the muslim population as "brainless, talkative weaklings" doesn't seem like a very spiritual thing to do.The only thing they got going for them is a rich past and rather nice clothes  :mellow:

 

I don't think most Shi'a-Sufi orders that are still active really care if you have no more interest in being a member of the Naqshbandi. They're probably desperate for members who can actually help strengthen them as it is.

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who was your Naqshabandi shaykh?

Lokman Hoja Effendi :) 

 

 

 

 

I don't think most Shi'a-Sufi orders that are still active really care if you have no more interest in being a member of the Naqshbandi. They're probably desperate for members who can actually help strengthen them as it is.

Well, that's a relief! xD

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I think every person has its own way to connect with the creator.  Some connect better by being shiite, other connect better by being sufi's, ,others by being a buddhist.  It depends on each person and there is no tariqa (path) that is fully right or fully wrong, at the end of the day we all connect to the same creator . There will always be some disagreements within paths ,even in Shii'sm ,there are so much controversial issues (Tatbir, Taqleed, Tawassul..). Even shiism is not perfect, no religion will ever be perfect , at least not until the Mahdi reappearance.   You decide what you want to believe in, as long as it brings you closer to the creator. Just don't force anyone to believe the same as you or what not to believe, or don't tell them what they're doing is wrong. It may be wrong for you, but not to them .  


Some people convert to shia Islam by reading Ahadith ,checking the Isnaad and arrive to the truth. That is totally fine. If history makes them closer to the creator, then they should go for it and follow this path.

 

As for me, i connect better to Allah by practicing Irfan, meditating & reciting dhikr.  I'm not so much of a history person 

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I think every person has its own way to connect with the creator.  Some connect better by being shiite, other connect better by being sufi's, ,others by being a buddhist.  It depends on each person and there is no tariqa (path) that is fully right or fully wrong, at the end of the day we all connect to the same creator . There will always be some disagreements within paths ,even in Shii'sm ,there are so much controversial issues (Tatbir, Taqleed, Tawassul..). Even shiism is not perfect, no religion will ever be perfect , at least not until the Mahdi reappearance.   You decide what you want to believe in, as long as it brings you closer to the creator. Just don't force anyone to believe the same as you or what not to believe, or don't tell them what they're doing is wrong. It may be wrong for you, but not to them .  

Some people convert to shia Islam by reading Ahadith ,checking the Isnaad and arrive to the truth. That is totally fine. If history makes them closer to the creator, then they should go for it and follow this path.

 

As for me, i connect better to Allah by practicing Irfan, meditating & reciting dhikr.  I'm not so much of a history person 

Salam.

 

Inshallah you are doing well.  I would like to ask you the following:

 

You are claiming that any belief is valid as long as it connects a person to God.  What about those who feel connected to God and who reject your belief (i.e. that all beliefs are valid as long as they feel connected to God)?  

 

I would disagree with the way you are framing everything because what would you say about wahabism or the bahai faith?  Are they also valid paths just because people who follow them feel connected to God? Let us say we have in mind one of those staunch guy who love to kill Shias and who belong to ISIS.  I am pretty sure that at least some of them genuinely believe that they are worshiping God the way He ought to be worshiped and that their actions in His eyes are praiseworthy and deserving of a reward.  Now if you say they are not really connected to God then we are back to square one because now we need to figure out what determines a valid connection to God.    

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Salam,

 

So you left him for "Shiasm"?  Can you explain what made you leave the Tariqah.  

 

 

It was difficult for me to take Abu Bakr as a role model, even though I was a devout sunni at the time. The first caliph didn't seem real to me. Imam Ali, however, was far too real. Besides any of that, I didn't like the "please tell your women to shut up" attitude at the dergah. It just seemed primitive to me. Shi'ism was completely different. There was emphasis on logic, a healthy dose of mysticism, and role models you can relate to. At the end of the day, any kind of true mysticism should allow you to function as a compassionate and noble member of the society. Imam Ali(a.s.) offered that paradigm. Perhaps I might have not come to Shi'ism had I joined one of the 'Alawi Tariqas like the Mevlevi Order or the Qadiri Order, since I would have found Imam Ali there as well--albeit, in less concentrated doses.

 

I do not think I left the Tariqa. I still watch the sohbets, taking from them what seems in line with Shia Islam, and trying to learn from Hoja.

 

 

If, however, I lose all contact the Tariqah in the future, then I must clarify something. The Sufis have a saying: 

 

"You do not leave the Tariqah, the Tariqah leaves you."

 

Salam.

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Salam.

 

Inshallah you are doing well.  I would like to ask you the following:

 

You are claiming that any belief is valid as long as it connects a person to God.  What about those who feel connected to God and who reject your belief (i.e. that all beliefs are valid as long as they feel connected to God)?  

 

I would disagree with the way you are framing everything because what would you say about wahabism or the bahai faith?  Are they also valid paths just because people who follow them feel connected to God? Let us say we have in mind one of those staunch guy who love to kill Shias and who belong to ISIS.  I am pretty sure that at least some of them genuinely believe that they are worshiping God the way He ought to be worshiped and that their actions in His eyes are praiseworthy and deserving of a reward.  Now if you say they are not really connected to God then we are back to square one because now we need to figure out what determines a valid connection to God.    

 

thank you ethereal, but killing someone is not worshiping the creator.. when you kill someone, you are obviously worshiping the devil that you mistook as being god ,In my opinion . The more peaceful you are, the more conected to your creator you are. 

@ShahreemAhsan,  I just googled Qadiri order, its interesting =)

 

someone's qadiri Tariqa blog http://sufiview.com

We don’t call Sufism a religion, we call it tariqat, which means “the path.

Edited by -Enlightened

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thank you ethereal, but killing someone is not worshiping the creator.. when you kill someone, you are obviously worshiping the devil that you mistook as being god ,In my opinion . The more peaceful you are, the more conected to your creator you are. 

So what about those new-age spiritual people who feel they don't need an organized religion because they think religions bring more tension and conflict than they bring about peace?  Take for example people like Eckhart Tolley and his fans.   

It was difficult for me to take Abu Bakr as a role model, even though I was a devout sunni at the time. The first caliph didn't seem real to me. Imam Ali, however, was far too real. Besides any of that, I didn't like the "please tell your women to shut up" attitude at the dergah. It just seemed primitive to me. Shi'ism was completely different. There was emphasis on logic, a healthy dose of mysticism, and role models you can relate to. At the end of the day, any kind of true mysticism should allow you to function as a compassionate and noble member of the society. Imam Ali(a.s.) offered that paradigm. Perhaps I might have not come to Shi'ism had I joined one of the 'Alawi Tariqas like the Mevlevi Order or the Qadiri Order, since I would have found Imam Ali there as well--albeit, in less concentrated doses.

 

I do not think I left the Tariqa. I still watch the sohbets, taking from them what seems in line with Shia Islam, and trying to learn from Hoja.

 

 

If, however, I lose all contact the Tariqah in the future, then I must clarify something. The Sufis have a saying: 

 

"You do not leave the Tariqah, the Tariqah leaves you."

 

Salam.

So does this mean you still perform all of their daily litanies.

 

Wa alaykum salam. 

Edited by eThErEaL

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Salams brother Shahreem,

 

If you still feel like you have an intimate connection with sufism, then why not explore irfan? Irfan is basically (as per my understanding) mysticism within the bounds of sharia. Have you considered becoming a murid of great irfani scholars (eg Ayatullah Javadi Amoli (HA) who is in Qum)? Look into the works of Imam Khomeinie , Allamah Tabatabei , and others who were great Irfani scholars.

Edited by salman1

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So what about those new-age spiritual people who feel they don't need an organized religion because they think religions bring more tension and conflict than they bring about peace?  Take for example people like Eckhart Tolley and his fans.   

 

Wa alaykum salam. 

 

They believe in god but not in a religion, like I explained , everyone has their own way , Allah gave free will for us to chose  , I respect everyone and in turn, those people respect me back .

 

by the way, why is your religion classified as 'nothing' in your description ? I thought you were a Muslim ? Just curious ?

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As for me, i connect better to Allah by practicing Irfan, meditating & reciting dhikr.  I'm not so much of a history person 

How exactly do you 'practice' irfan? What dhikr do you recite/invoke(how regularly do you do it)? And what type of meditation do you do?

Shukran

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So what about those new-age spiritual people who feel they don't need an organized religion because they think religions bring more tension and conflict than they bring about peace?  Take for example people like Eckhart Tolley and his fans.   

So does this mean you still perform all of their daily litanies.

 

Wa alaykum salam. 

 

I try to do the naksibendi zikr as much as possible. Still go to Hoja for dream interpretation, and consultation on vital issues.

 

Salams brother Shahreem,

 

If you still feel like you have an intimate connection with sufism, then why not explore irfan? Irfan is basically (as per my understanding) mysticism within the bounds of sharia. Have you considered becoming a murid of great irfani scholars (eg Ayatullah Javadi Amoli (HA) who is in Qum)? Look into the works of Imam Khomeinie , Allamah Tabatabei , and others who were great Irfani scholars.

 I don't think I'll ever be able to leave sufism, haha. But how would I become a murid of an Irfani scholar, since I live in Dhaka?

 

I've been eager to dive into the works of scholars you mentioned, lol :)

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Shahreem, 

 

Is this a Turkish Order of the Naqshabandis or? I'm quite ill-informed so do explain

(just curious since I noticed you using a lot of Turkish vocabulary :D)

 Yes, it is! :)

The Order's Grandshaykh is said to be a Turkish Seyyed who traces his lineage to Abdul Qadir Jilani on his father's side and Mevlana Rumi on his mother's side(I'm talking about the late Shaykh Nazim).

 

My "branch" of the Order takes the Turkish element to a whole new level. It is called the Osmanli Naksibendi Hakkani Sufi Tarikat. It's aim is to bring people closer to the lifestyle of the prophet by focusing on the daily life in the Ottoman Empire. Overall, pretty exciting stuff that really starts kicking your butt after a while xD!

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