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iltemas-e-dua

Vaginismus Ruining My Life And Relationship

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On 11/19/2014 at 11:11 AM, Ruq said:

The Quran tells us how much control people should have in an Islamic marriage. The concession made for fearing sin indicates that marriage to avoid sin is allowed but makrooh and thats in relation to an unmarried person who cant afford the mahr of a free believing woman. The Quran says more about mens responsibilities in regard to their wives than it does about anything else in marriage. If there was no possibility for sexual relief then it wouldnt be unreasonable, it would depend on the individuals involved and their difficulties. I dont think you need to be a man to be aware that you cant make sweeping statements like the ones i replied to. Men, much like women, experience sex drives relative to many factors, including age, marital status (studies have shown) as well as individual biology and personality. The mythical stereotype that men are nothing but lustful, slaves to high sex drives is just as unfair and damaging as stereotypes about women having low sex drives and easily doing without sex. Many women have needs just as real and the highest sexed men and many men have little trouble controlling themselves in order to do the right thing.

You say a lot of reasonable things, but you come off as a holier than thou. You are no expert in Quran to be giving out fatwas as in it's not Islamic or Quran says this and that. The sister answering has her opinion and you have yours, calling her brainwashed is a weak attempt at making your point more valid, specially when you have good points. It specially becomes strange when you are saying what men think and how they are. The stereotype that you mentioned is actually not far from accurate. 

If you are going to mention what the Quran says i recommend you putting forward the text and then some explanation. The Quran and sunnah allow men to have more than 1 wife (4:3) and the only requirement for it is that you treat them fairly. There is no other condition given in the Quran. 

@iltemas-e-dua

If you truly can't stand him getting another wife(i recon he means temporary wife) then i suggest you think about being ok with him getting another permanent one. Normal men, have a need for normal sexual relationship with their wife. Yes you will find men that aren't like that, but they are not deemed normal. To ask  your husband to handicap himself mentally and physically because of your physical/mental issues will only double the problems, not fix it. I know i might sound harsh, i don't intend too. 

I agree with sister Ruq that even if mutah in itself is not Haram and it is his right, it's not very healthy for the marriage. Some things might be your right, but if it causes more harm than good it becomes an issue. Therefore if you are uncertain whether or not your issue is solveable in the near future, or solvable at all, i do suggest you two talk about him getting another permanent wife. If he didn't know about your condition before marriage, which i recon he didn't, then it is also islamically speaking allowed for him to get a divorce(consult your/his marja in regards to this)  

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On 11/19/2014 at 6:39 PM, repenter said:

You say a lot of reasonable things, but you come off as a holier than thou. You are no expert in Quran to be giving out fatwas as in it's not Islamic or Quran says this and that. The sister answering has her opinion and you have yours, calling her brainwashed is a weak attempt at making your point more valid. It specially becomes strange when you are saying what men think and how they are. The stereotype that you mentioned is actually not far from accurate. 

If you are going to mention what the Quran says i recommend you putting forward the text and then some explanation. The Quran and sunnah allow men to have more than 1 wife (4:3) and the only requirement for it is that you treat them fairly. There is no other condition given in the Quran. 

Where did i give a fatwa? all i did was point out some Quranic verses to help get some perspective on these issues. I dont think 'brain washed' is far from the mark, i didnt mean it disrespectfully. The reality is that such  sweeping notions are propagated by culture/family/media without much actual evidence to back them up. Ive checked out some studies on this subject before and there is evidence that human beings have been somewhat polygamous historically, but the biological evidence suggests that we have been just as much, if not more, monogamous. As a side note, monogamy has actually been more beneficial for men historically than it has for women. Polygamy has allowed more women to avail themselves of the resources of the most resourceful men in their communities, which leads to more competitiveness between males and more aggression/violence. When monogamy prevails it means more men get to mate with the choicest women as the men with the most resources only get to have 1 wife. This reduces competitiveness and aggression between males. Studies also show that factors like age, health and relationship status affects sex drives for both men and women, as well as different people having different default settings. I also know from personal experience from friends/family members in my own life, that the sweeping statement i replied to before is not a true statement. I think these kinds of myths are quite damaging; they make people cynical on one hand and make excuses for people on the other. The reality is that there is variance and that each person can choose to act honourably and with integrity. If a couples sex drives are so mismatched that the amount of compromis by 1 side becomes burdensome, it may be best that they split up, but what ever happens, there is no excuse for sneaking around and cheating and lying. In the case in question the husband has a willing partner, he isnt being denied sexual relief, just a particular way of getting it and it is due to a condition that is perfectly curable. If a man is going to make the choice to take another wife or divorce his currant one he should grow a pair and be honest about it, otherwise he is disrespecting himself as well as his wife.

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Ruq, I'm entitled to my opinion and to be honest I really can't be bothered arguing, especially after such an accusation calling me "brain washed", whether you MEAN to disrespect or not, it is disrespectful, and quite amateur, there is etiquette in talk. There is wisdom behind God's rule of polygamy. I can bring forth traditions and narrations but I know it won't get anywhere nor will proof of a man's natural sex drive and it's impact on his judgement and health suffice as evidence. Other ways of relief do not feed his drive. It's like lettuce for dinner, is it food? Yes. Does it fill your natural craving? No. Will you remain craving a meal? Absolutely. It is completely natural and understandable, a man cannot be held accountable for this. It can be cured and that's great, but if it's going to take another year and a half, can you imagine? A married man incapable of sleeping with his wife for three years? He'll either do mutaa or fall into haram. I personally would rather my husband marry a second permanent wife if I was in this position. It's not easy! I feel for her, I swear I've been thinking of her condition for two days.

Sleeping with another woman isn't dishonorable, there is hadeeth that clearly states the prophet practiced mutaa, I think we can both agree the prophet did not lack any integrity.

As you've had personal experience, so have I with friends and family that completely proves my statement.

You have your view and I have mine.

Just leave it at that.

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On 11/20/2014 at 8:49 AM, -Fatima- said:

Ruq, I'm entitled to my opinion and to be honest I really can't be bothered arguing, especially after such an accusation calling me "brain washed", whether you MEAN to disrespect or not, it is disrespectful, and quite amateur, there is etiquette in talk. There is wisdom behind God's rule of polygamy. I can bring forth traditions and narrations but I know it won't get anywhere nor will proof of a man's natural sex drive and it's impact on his judgement and health suffice as evidence. Other ways of relief do not feed his drive. It's like lettuce for dinner, is it food? Yes. Does it fill your natural craving? No. Will you remain craving a meal? Absolutely. It is completely natural and understandable, a man cannot be held accountable for this. It can be cured and that's great, but if it's going to take another year and a half, can you imagine? A married man incapable of sleeping with his wife for three years? He'll either do mutaa or fall into haram. I personally would rather my husband marry a second permanent wife if I was in this position. It's not easy! I feel for her, I swear I've been thinking of her condition for two days.

Sleeping with another woman isn't dishonorable, there is hadeeth that clearly states the prophet practiced mutaa, I think we can both agree the prophet did not lack any integrity.

As you've had personal experience, so have I with friends and family that completely proves my statement.

You have your view and I have mine.

Just leave it at that.

I think you meant 'immature'. I wasnt arguing you, merely responding. You can choose take take it as insulting if you prefer, but theres no need to take things so personally. We are all brain washed in different ways. It takes a lot of conscious contemplation to begin to free ourselves up and and question the stories we've taken on through our environments. Just the fact that we have differing experiences regarding this point (the sweeping statements you made about men) proves my point that you cannot make the sweeping statements you made with integrity. Maybe you think the drama of a sweeping statement makes for a more impressive argument, but its without substance if its ignoring reality. There is a variety of experience, so 'men are this, women are that' is just a story. I reiterate that there are people that would struggle in this situation more than others and that, for them, second marriages or divorce would be appropriate. I dont know why you brought up the Prophet(saw) doing mutah (if indeed he did). If the Prophet(saw) did Mutah, it wouldnt have been for lustful reasons, because that would be incongruous with Quranic direction. He had plenty of wives and had more than adequate self control and consideration for others. Your analogy to food is ridiculous. There are people who have fulfilling sex lives who dont have traditional sex. Some people have medical conditions so have to find others ways to be fulfilled and some people are just kinky. Its really weird how youre insisting the op's husband should not be patient in his situation. Its almost as if youre so sure your husband wouldnt that you dont want anyone elses to either. I will try to think more generously of you though.

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On 11/13/2014 at 7:40 AM, iltemas-e-dua said:

Assalam o alaikum

I am writing about my problem in the hope that i will get some help as i think this is making me mentally sick and is becoming a strain on my marriage.

I know this is a sisters forum and it is probably the most appropriate place to mention this, but if any guy does happen to read this, then i would appreciate their input as it may help me from a males point of view

I have been married to my husband for 1.5 years my husband is in his mid 30's and i am just getting into my late 20's and are both virgins.

We both tried to consummate the marriage many times times over many months but it became impossible to do so for me because of the pain. We both just thought it was because i was extremely nervous and maybe I was just unable to take the pain. Anyway i had to go and see a gynaecologist for a separate reason and i brought up this issue and to cut a long story short she told me i had a condition called Vaginismus. Below is just a brief description of what this condition is:

Vaginismus is a condition where there is involuntary tightness of the vagina during attempted intercourse. The tightness is actually caused by involuntary contractions of the pelvic floor muscles surrounding the vagina. The woman does not directly control or 'will' the tightness to occur; it is an involuntary pelvic response. She may not even have any awareness that the muscle response is causing the tightness or penetration problem.

In some cases vaginismus tightness may begin to cause burning, pain, or stinging during intercourse. In other cases, penetration may be difficult or completely impossible. Vaginismus is the main cause of unconsummated relationships. The tightness can be so restrictive that the opening to the vagina is 'closed off' altogether and the man is unable to insert his penis. The pain of vaginismus ends when the sexual attempt stops, and usually intercourse must be halted due to pain or discomfort.

Now my husband is a very nice man, alhamdulillah i am very lucky to have such a husband. He is religious and puts Allah before everything and is very god conscious when taking any decisions in his life.

Nonetheless maybe the temptation got the best of him and about 8months ago i caught him messaging a woman flirtatiously and on confrontation he said it was with the intention of muta (and he his this from me because he didn't want to hurt me). It killed me and i broke down, he apologised for hurting me. I did understand what he was going through and didn't want to blame him for my incapabilities and I forgave him although i could not forget the messages in my head and thinking about them even now hurts me deeply.

However a couple of months later he spoke to her again. This time i noticed it the first time he messaged her after the last incident (as some devices were linked and it came up as they were texting) and i confronted him and once again i broke down more. He apologised again and promised me he will never do this again. I know it seems he is a horrible person but i know he is not. He has never been the kind of person who flirts and is a very shy person and would never think about hurting me. This is just the result of me being unable to satisfy him sexually, which i do understand.

I asked him if he wanted to be with me, as i would be willing to leave him as i do not want him to suffer with my problems as its not fair. He said this is not the case and he loves me and wants me to be in his life. He said he was looking for mutaa as he is unable to resist and for him sex was just sex and it wouldn't mean anything other than this, which is not something i accept. He says he still wants to have a family and kids with me and would be willing to go through anything to make this happen. He said he thought of doing mutaa as he believes its a right given to him by Allah. I told him i could not accept this (not because i neglect Allah but because i always believed in a one woman faithful man for myself) and could not bring myself to watch my husband sleep with another woman and then come home to me. I told him that i would not be with him if he ever went and conducted mutaa or a second marriage because of his temptations. We both have different views on this and we have just both agreed to disagree on this. This hurts me because i think we should deal with this together as this is not something i have done to myself and is therefore not my fault. I know he has the right to do mutaa but it hurts me that he considered sleeping with someone else and still says he wants to have a family with me only. It makes me angry thinking that he wants everything, he wants to satisfy himself, have a family with me and for me to be happy about this, which i cannot be.

Recently we have been very open about this problem, which we never were before and now both of us understand how each of us feel. We both respect each others feelings even though we both differ on the solutions. He still feels he has the right to do mutaa under these circumstances. However he has committed he will not do this as he realises how much it will hurt me and his intentions were never to hurt me, all he wanted was just wanted his temptations to go away. I believe his commitment is genuine and he will not be unfaithful and will only conduct a mutaa if i agree.

I have been going through such an emotional turmoil recently and i keep breaking down into tears. I am feeling so alone as i have not told my family or friends about these problems either. I love my husband and i know he loves me and would do anything for me which includes him now being patient and not letting his temptations to take over. I feel like i am oppressing him and making him suffer because of my own problems. I feel like i have ruined his life. i have tried to convince myself to allow him to conduct a mutaa but i cannot allow myself to do this and then i feel selfish and feel like a horrible wife. I keep thinking maybe he is right and he has the right bestowed to him by Allah to do mutaa and i am stopping him, but then i think he is not the only one suffering as i am suffering too and why cant we fight this together.

I know you must all be thinking what about curing my problem? Yes that is happening, i am planning on going private but before that starts i still have to wait aprox 5 months due to finances. The cure isn't quick and is mainly counselling and could take a very long time which is hard to predict before i start treatment.

Meanwhile i am working on other factors which also effect my husband and how he feels about me i.e my appearance etc and basically what i am saying is that i am working on trying to solve our problems but obviously there is no quick fix and they will take time. I think my husband doesn't have any high hopes and feels that his time is running out as he is getting older. Our families our bugging us about kids which aren't even an option for us atm (not that they know) regardless my husband and i are not ready to have kids yet and we just want to have a normal sex life before we have kids.

I really don't know what to do and i have considered leaving my husband so that he can just live his life and be happy. I don't think i am making him happy although he says i do. He tells me that if i left him he would not be happy and that this problem is really stressing him out and he's finding it hard to block out these temptations. I really don't know what to do, i feel miserable, i cry almost everyday as the guilt of torturing my husband kills me, i don't want to oppress him of his needs but i just cannot convince myself to be happy with him having a mutaa. I cannot share him like that. i seriously dont know what to do. Am i really such a selfish wife? Am i expecting too much? Am i oppressing him? These type of things are constantly running through my mind and its killing me and making me depressed.

Please can anyone give me some advise and whilst writing this I was very worried about my husband sounding like a bad person, but he is not, just remember he is a guy who has needs.

Thank you for reading, appreciate any help.

Salaam

I am surprised to have seen this post, after logging into ShiaChat after many years, and only dealing with a few vaginismus patients the other day at a clinic I am working at, I felt it was important to contribute. Many of the individuals giving advice here are well intentioned, and even though I am only a lowly medical student who is not interested in gynecology, I have gained some level of working knowledge on vaginismus after working at a gynecology clinic and it is a very complicated subject that falls in the category of 'chronic pelvic pain syndrome.' What you really need more than anything, as you have understood yourself, is a specialist in this field, who usually tends to be a OB/GYN physician with specialty training in this subject. Unfortunately (or fortunately) a lot of it is indeed psychological and can be narrowed down to a particular stressor(s) in your life and needs a good level of therapy. My own humble opinion is that a good amount of the work to be done, falls into the dimension of irfan and knowing your soul. It can take a long time and prepare your husband for that, and as another poster mentioned I have also seen marriage fail because of this. But really your own degree of willingness to be "self-aware" of your own nafs is really important here and with grace you can hopefully inshallah trancend this obsticle with a good amount of velocity. The task of overcoming this impediment is very tedious and requires a serious stepping back from your particular traits, past life events, etc and a physician/psychiatrist with proper training plays an important role(almost a spiritual role) in helping you become aware of what the heart of the matter is. Actually, men have a version of this issue as well, and it manifests as chronic lower back pain rather than pelvic/vaginal pain, and this is also psychological(nafsi) it is roots.

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I really didn't want to reply to you, but I have a little spare time on my hand.

Being "brainwashed" is an incorrect term to use. It is rather a collection of  instances and experiences that shape our mentality and view on things, not brainwashed. You can use that on people who have been enslaved by the media for example, they're brainwashed. I on the other hand, am speaking out of experiences and obvious proof in narrations and Quraan, also being a married woman. Which brings up a question, you are a woman who speaks of how men are, are you married?

As for he food example, no it's completely accurate. 

You speak of research yet you don't provide me any reference, you speak of quraan and provide no quote. You have shown me absolutely zero proof of you ideology.

However, let me show you the importance of sex for men, not only does it release endorphin (which regulates his mood) and Oxytocin (natural sleep aid) it has effects far more serious and notable.

A. A study in the American Journal of Cardiology shows that men who have sex 2 times a week have a lower risk of CVD than men who had one or none times.

    This statement is also supported in New England.

As well as a study in Queens University in Belfast, men who have sex three or more times a week cut their heart attack and stroke risk in half.

B. A research in the Uni of West Scotland shows that sex releases anxiety, lowers stress hormones, and can help people cope with mental pressure for at least a week.  After an experimental study inducted (public speaking test) and such where the results I quote by him:  Participants were also asked to keep a diary of their sexual activity for two weeks prior to the test. Those who had sex were the least stressed out, and their blood pressures returned to normal faster after the public speaking test. "People who had penile-vaginal intercourse did twice as well as people who only masturbated or had no sex at all," Participants were also asked to keep a diary of their sexual activity for two weeks prior to the test. Those who had sex were the least stressed out, and their blood pressures returned to normal faster after the public speaking test. "People who had penile-vaginal intercourse did twice as well as people who only masturbated or had no sex at all," Now this refutes your "you can sub for sex".

C. There is a book published by psychologists Carl J. Charnetski, PhD, and Francis X. Brennan Jr., PhD. They wrote that people who have sex once or twice a week have stronger immune systems than people who have sex less than once a week and had 30% more immunoglobulin A in their system.

D. This I'll paste for you from a website: An Irish study published in the British Medical Journal in 1997 tracked the mortality of 1,000 middle-aged men over the course of a decade and concluded that sexual activity may have a protective effect on health. By comparing men according to age and health, researchers found that men who had the highest frequency of orgasms had a death rate 50-percent lower than men who did not.

Now my dear, don't tell me that a man can sub his need with something else if he is capable of sleeping with a woman.

Read this article about it also:
http://www.punchng.com/entertainment/sex-sexuality/no-substitute-for-sex/

Now as for the Quraan, I don't need to state the Ayas that allow multiple wives, that's simple knowledge.

As for hadeeth "It is Mustahab for the man between you to marry Mutaa, and I do not love for a man between you to leave his world until he has married Mutaa even if just once". Imam Sadiq (A.S.)

Wasael Al Shiaa, Volume 21, page 15, door 2, hadeeth no. 26397.

The book's sitting in front of me.

Now you degraded a man for the practice of Mutaa earlier calling it lustful and dishonourable yes?

Allow me to translate this hadeeth but I'll post the Arabic version:

 ـ أحمد بن علي بن أبي طالب الطبرسي في ( الاحتجاج ) : عن محمد بن عبدالله بن جعفر الحميري ، أنه كتب إلى صاحب الزمان ( عليه السلام ) يسأله عن الرجل ممن يقول بالحق ويرى المتعة ويقول بالرجعة إلا أن له أهلا موافقة له في جميع أموره وقد عاهدها أن لا يتزوج عليها ولا يتمتع ولا يتسرى ، وقد فعل هذا منذ تسع (1) عشر سنة ، ووفى بقوله : فربما غاب عن منزله الاشهر فلا يتمتع ولا تتحرك نفسه أيضا لذلك ، ويرى أن وقوف من معه من أخ وولد وغلام ووكيل وحاشية مما يقلله في أعينهم ويحب المقام على ما هو عليه محبة لاهله وميلا إليها وصيانة لها ولنفسه لا لتحريم المتعة ، بل يدين الله بها ، فهل عليه في ترك ذلك مأثم أم لا ؟ الجواب : يستحب له أن يطيع الله تعالى بالمتعة ليزول عنه الحلف في المعصية ولو مرة واحدة . 

About Mohammad Bin Abdillah Bin Jaafar AlHumairi, that he wrote to Saheb Al Zaman A.S. asking him about a that speaks truth and accepts Mutaa and he speaks of the return except that he has a wife that is approving of all his affairs and he has promised her that he will not marry over her and will not practice mutaa and not do secretly, and he has done this 19 years ago and he was loyal to his word. He would probably leave the house for months and he would not do mutaa and his innate would not desire too, and he sees that (this is a tricky part to translate) standing with him, his brother, son, servant, counsel and entourage that he may be lessened in their eyes (so practically the sentence is saying he's scared if he does mutaa his status may be lessened in front of who's around him.) and he loves to keep what he has said lovingly to his wife, siding by her and conservation for both her and himself, not because he forbids mutaa, in fact he believes it's God's religion, so if he breaks his word is it a sin or not? Answer: It is Mustahab that he obeys God by doing his order (Mutaa) so that the sin of the convent he made leaves him, even if he does it just once.

There may be some tiny errors in the translation, so forgive me God.

Wasael Al Shiaa, Volume 21, page 17, door 3, hadeeth no. 2640.
 

I think it's safe to say we can't argue Imam Mahdi :)

On 11/20/2014 at 6:14 PM, Ruq said:

 Its really weird how youre insisting the op's husband should not be patient in his situation. Its almost as if youre so sure your husband wouldnt that you dont want anyone elses to either. I will try to think more generously of you though.

As for this cheap part of your argument, I'm not insisting that the OP's husband should not be patient, I'm simply excusing his actions, she thinks her husband sounds like a horrible person to us. Not at all. He sounds just about right to me. It's very sad that I'm attempting to give my Shia sister some advice that I would LOVE someone to give me, and here you are instigating that I'm somewhat envious of her husband. Lol. I clearly said to her "I completely get you  :(

You'll be in my prayers inshaa Allah and do update us in the future about your medical progress I would truly love to hear that you've overcome it.

God bless, wassalam" I just wanted to do my part.

I'm not in need of nor do I ask that you think of me more generously, it only shows your level of maturity and bias personality.

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I'm afraid I'm derailing the thread here, but this representation of men as testosterone-controlled beings, who must sleep with other women, because they can't wait one month for their wives, makes me wonder if so many of the males I know are aliens in disguise.Yes, it might be harder for the average male than female, but from what I've seen, along with biology, culture has a big part to play too. I mean that in societies where women-and men- routinely are given (not necessarily obvious) messages about men being incapable of restraining themselves, they are all more likely to believe it. (Am I right, Sister Ruq, in thinking that this is what you meant?) Yes, Islam gives men the options of muta, polygyny etc, but also prescribes fasting for those who can't. In other words, there are other ways to handle one's nafs. And I wonder, were men really so unable to tame the beast, would there be as strict punishments for rapists? And please, I'm not painting any men who do take co-wives (temporary or permanent) as bad, for provided they do it all right, they are exercising their God-given right after all. I just request that they not be portrayed as out-of-control creatures.

Dear OP, I'm sorry I have not put in anything constructive for your problem; all I can offer are my sincere duas that you two find peace and contentment together.

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Most women can overcome this problem with relaxation and over-the-counter pain medication 30 or 60 minutes before intimacy. Others need medical help. So sorry for your difficulty.

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salam alaikum,

i think it's psychological and the point is to "let go" .. just keep in mind that the area is designed to give birth to a baby, which is much bigger problem yet.

so take it step by step and let your husband try everything (mostly kissing, hugging, comforting, and building trust) and slowly but surely keep trying.

Once you are ready it will work in sha Allah ...

duas with you

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السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته - May peace be upon you as well as Allah's mercy and his blessings
اللّهم صلّ على محمّد وآل محمّد - O Allah please pray upon Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad
بسم الله الرّحمن الرّحبم - Thanks to the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Sister (the OP),

Intimacy is not only about the intercourse part, it's a whole lot of practices to do... Why not try to start with something easier to do, with fun, and to turn both of you on? If you want to be in a playful mood, why not prepare a nice surprise for your husband, make a nice dinner, wear a short dress, turn him up, and end up blindfolding him with him letting you do what you want... Also (i'm really sorry but i can't say it otherwise) both of you can use each others hand, there is nothing wrong in that...

I'm sorry if i lack proper vocabulary, but my english is far from being as good as i thought... I therefore ask the moderators to moderate my post if they see it necessary.

Knowing that my message will be approved from a moderator before it will be shown, i sincerely ask them not to judge me on what i wrote, this is just a sincere piece of advice hoping that your marriage will work out, and that both of you will satisfied intimately with the other...

وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته - And upon you be peace as well as Allah's mercy and his blessings

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