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In the Name of God بسم الله

I'm A New Shia! :d

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  • Advanced Member

Al-hamdu liAllah and may He accept our duaa all and make us light-bearers to guide those astry (Al-Dhaaaaaaleen).

 

Please brother/sister read this very short booklet about who we are and what is this test (we call life) is all about.

http://heliwave.com/Soul.and.Spirit.pdf

 

Welcome to the Truth,

 

Salam

 

Ali

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mashAllah. May Allah bless you and your family. The first thing I ask of you is to be infinite times more respectful and polite to your family. Being a follower of the Ahlulbayt A.S means representing them through your actions, such a way they will begin to realize themselves to what a magnanimous person you have become. May Allah help you in this journey for knowledge. Here are some links I recommend you to take a look at, pertaining to all sorts of books, articles, and lectures that you will really enjoy. Maybe you can even watch these lectures with your family ;)

 

 

Website to watch Islamic Lectures: Particularly Hassanain Rajabali or just search his name up on youtube
Books and Articles Regarding Every Single Subject Particularly Shia Islam's views

Want to ask a question? Looking for answers to particular questions regarding Islam? Click Here

http://www.sistani.org/index.php?lang=eng (Everything Islamic Law related. Rulings. This is a Shia Marja, Sistani's website)

Al-Hadi.us - Great website to see research done on Shia and Sunni Islam, and Christianity. If you are seeking to find the truth.

 

(wasalam)

Edited by PureEthics
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  • Advanced Member

Salam 'Alaykum.

Thank you everyone!

 

Next time pray to Allah.

Brother, I thought we were allowed to ask for Madad from the Imams...correct me if I'm wrong please :)

 

 

Al-hamdu liAllah and may He accept our duaa all and make us light-bearers to guide those astry (Al-Dhaaaaaaleen).

 

Please brother/sister read this very short booklet about who we are and what is this test (we call life) is all about.

http://heliwave.com/Soul.and.Spirit.pdf

 

Welcome to the Truth,

 

Salam

 

Ali

Thank you, this was great. It was very informative.

 

mashAllah. May Allah bless you and your family. The first thing I ask of you is to be infinite times more respectful and polite to your family. Being a follower of the Ahlulbayt A.S means representing them through your actions, such a way they will begin to realize themselves to what a magnanimous person you have become. May Allah help you in this journey for knowledge. Here are some links I recommend you to take a look at, pertaining to all sorts of books, articles, and lectures that you will really enjoy. Maybe you can even watch these lectures with your family ;)

 

 

Infallibility of Prophets and Imams, MUST WATCH VIDEOS 17-21

Website to watch Islamic Lectures: Particularly Hassanain Rajabali or just search his name up on youtube

Books and Articles Regarding Every Single Subject Particularly Shia Islam's views

Want to ask a question? Looking for answers to particular questions regarding Islam? Click Here

http://www.sistani.org/index.php?lang=eng (Everything Islamic Law related. Rulings. This is a Shia Marja, Sistani's website)

Al-Hadi.us - Great website to see research done on Shia and Sunni Islam, and Christianity. If you are seeking to find the truth.

 

(wasalam)

 

 

I thank for your Duas ^^ I'm actually trying to instill the love of Ahlul Bayt(as) in my seven year old brother, so please pray that I'm successful. I'm also desperately trying to get my mother to convert to Shi'ism, but I dont know how that will turn out. But sabr pays off, so i'll be at it. Those links will be very useful to me :D

Actually, Hassanain Rajabali was the reason I started reasearching Shi'ism in the first place. I remember watching his debate with Dan Barker and later heard he was Shia. Curious, I began learning about Shi'ism and felt myself being swept away by the flood of truth I came across. I owe Hassanain Rajabali a spiritual debt, I suppose.

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Salam 'Alaykum.

Thank you everyone!

 

Brother, I thought we were allowed to ask for Madad from the Imams...correct me if I'm wrong please :)

 

 

to reply on his behalf ,the issue of tawassul is a contradictory subject among shiites . Some believe it is right, others do not . It is up to you to make your own research and arrive to your own conclusion Inshallah 

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  • Advanced Member

 

Brother, I thought we were allowed to ask for Madad from the Imams...correct me if I'm wrong please :)

 

(salam)

 

It's a controversial issue. Some avoid it since it looks rather similar to what Allah condemned the Mushriks for (over and over and over again) in the Qur'ān and, more alarming, there isn't sufficient textual sources backing up this practice. More to the point, this isnt something the Prophet and Imams taught their followers to do. 

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(salam)

It's a controversial issue. Some avoid it since it looks rather similar to what Allah condemned the Mushriks for (over and over and over again) in the Qur'ān and, more alarming, there isn't sufficient textual sources backing up this practice. More to the point, this isnt something the Prophet and Imams taught their followers to do.

Except all of our marja have absolutely no issue or even hint it has a precautionary matter. The only controversy it gets is from a few of you literalists on this site.

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What about Syed Fadlallah?

He is dead. Time has passed. He can no longer research, study, and proclaim fatwas. They are void. He is umm imo, not really a marja tbh. I dont think any of the grand ayatollahs ever recognized him as one. With due respect to those who follow him as one.

Edited by PureEthics
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Brother, I thought we were allowed to ask for Madad from the Imams...correct me if I'm wrong please :)

 

 

(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

If you can’t beat them, then join them[with the twist that “join to undermine them”]. This has happened in early Islam, and no reason to believe, it is not happening now or  in the future.

 

So, be Vigilant and Alert.

 

Especially when taking advice/opinion from a screen name on the web{including me]. Ask for reliable  resources/material and carry out your own research/investigation.

 

Topic was discussed here[There are arguments for and against, and some members provided research/study material]

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235026499-why-do-we-need-intercession-in-this-world/

 

(wasalam)

Edited by S.M.H.A.
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  • Advanced Member

Except all of our marja have absolutely no issue or even hint it has a precautionary matter. The only controversy it gets is from a few of you literalists on this site.

 

Just so you know, you're not supposed to do Taqleed in areas outside of Fiqh, right? 

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Just so you know, you're not supposed to do Taqleed in areas outside of Fiqh, right? 

 

That isnt the point. They are maraja. At the very least their stance on any matter fiq or not has a significance. Regardless, you would think if it is borderline shirk or even hints at shirk the maraja would incline to say out of precautionary matters we should refrain, but it is in fact the opposite.

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  • Advanced Member

That isnt the point. They are maraja. At the very least their stance on any matter fiq or not has a significance. Regardless, you would think if it is borderline shirk or even hints at shirk the maraja would incline to say out of precautionary matters we should refrain, but it is in fact the opposite.

 

No, it is the 'point'. As I said, you arent supposed to do taqleed to others in matters outside of Fiqh. Instead of appealing to authorities outside the realm of this area, it would be better if you deal with objections in a proper manner. I'm prepared to change my views provided there is sufficient textual evidence and no gymnastics performed to arrive at a conclusion that is incongruent with the Quran and teachings of the Imams. If the latter [as] taught this then there should be sufficient evidence to attest to this fact. But unfortunately this doesnt seem to be the case. If you think otherwise, then do illustrate it. 

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No, it is the 'point'. As I said, you arent supposed to do taqleed to others in matters outside of Fiqh. Instead of appealing to authorities outside the realm of this area, it would be better if you deal with objections in a proper manner. I'm prepared to change my views provided there is sufficient textual evidence and no gymnastics performed to arrive at a conclusion that is incongruent with the Quran and teachings of the Imams. If the latter [as] taught this then there should be sufficient evidence to attest to this fact. But unfortunately this doesnt seem to be the case. If you think otherwise, then do illustrate it. 

 

What makes you so sure you found something the maraja have not found? You think they would allow their followers to commit shirk? Im not here on this thread to convince you, heck I dont really care what your stance is tbh, but to say if the Imams A.S did not "teach" something then it is false, is an erroneous point.

Edited by PureEthics
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  • Advanced Member

 

 

In all honesty, and with all due respect, I'm becoming more than convinced its beyond any use dealing with you in most matters here. This is an observation drawn from numerous threads I've been involved in or seen others engage with you in other matters. Instead of dancing around the issue, you could atleast prove what you are defending using reliable material but instead you choose to play games that wastes both our time. I said I'm willing to change my mind, pehaps I have missed something. Unless you help me to see otherwise, I see no reason to abondan the position I now hold. 

 

 

 

but to say if the Imams A.S did not "teach" something then it is false, is an erroneous point.

 

 

:wacko: This requires an explanation. There are a lot of things the Imams [as] didn't teach, akhi. 

 

 

There are weak hadiths and du'as attributed to the Imams teaching us to seek help....

 

 

Maybe its just me, but if someone is asking me to make dua to other than God and arguing we should, after giving the Qur'an a thorough read (over and over again), I'd at least expect a bit of reliable material to support their claim, if not a lot to show this was atleast a consistant teaching of the Prophet and A'immah that they taught their Companions. 

Edited by Ali Musaaa :)
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Maybe its just me, but if someone is asking me to make dua to other than God and arguing we should, after giving the Qur'an a thorough read (over and over again), I'd at least expect a bit of reliable material to support their claim, if not a lot to show this was atleast a consistant teaching of the Prophet and A'immah that they taught their Companions. 

 

Du'a to other then God is prohibited by Quran. But is seeking help from someone Du'a (prayer)? From what I understand, Du'a (prayer) includes worship and without the worship element, it's not a Du'a.  But perhaps when we make others helpers in the station where God says he is the only helper, then we have committed Shirk and Worshiped them.

 

From my understanding of Quran, it's arguing if their gods (intercessors) were real, they would not be able to help you or assist you or respond to you and can only intercede by Allah's permission. Asking for intercession in the sense they have been delegated the choice would only be met on deaf ears (no one would hear their call).

 

From what I understand of Quran, it's prohibited and all the verses arguing against Mushrikeen gods really apply to the chosen ones, since God in other places argues those who he would take as sons or daughters if he would do such thing, would be of his chosen creation.

 

But you can't argue that's it's missing in hadith literature. It can also be argued that Imams should of gone out of their way to prohibit it and enforce this teaching of Tawheed and we are missing authentic hadiths either way.

 

It can be argued both ways from the teachings of Imams standpoint.

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  • Advanced Member

Thank you,

 

Wouldn't it make sense for Allah whilst comdenming the Mushriks, He makes an exception or clarifies that they are using the wrong intercessors and we can call upon other than Him but they have to be x, y, z? Why isnt there an exception given? Doesn't it seem that it's consistant condemnation of calling on other than Him? 

 

I cant say I agree with the latter argument. If x was a teaching of Islam, shouldn't it be expected that the Teachers and Upholders [as] of this religion atleast discuss and, more importantly, teach this to their companions? 

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I think the word is Du'a however which doesn't necessarily mean call. It means prayer, and has the element of worship. I think asking Imams to pray for you is not a prayer to the Imams, but a prayer to God.  I think however seeking spiritual risq directly from them, like saying, Ya Ali madad, and expecting to a spiritual change in you or something of that sort, is prohibited in Quran where it talks about God being the one who should be sought Risq.

 

Intercession is taught in Quran, but it's a limited form, which is asking Allah through them. This is what Quran describes in places with the followers and their respective Prophets. 

 

As for dead hearing us, we say Salam directly to Mohammad in Salah. Whether he hears it directly through a means Allah gave him or it's conveyed by Angels, is besides the point.

 

But this shouldn't give us permission to ask Mohammad as if now he is custodian over our souls, watching our inward, knowing if we should receive risq or not...but that instead we should ask Allah sincerely, and in it's right place, also seek nearness to Allah through intercession of the Prophet, Fatima, and the Imams.  We see the Quran has not prohibited this but shown in places, that the Prophet prays for believers.

 

Their intercession is similar to how we bless them, and our prayers are accepted upon them. Allah asking us to bless Mohammad is not a prayer that he has done...and neither is the Prophet asking us to bless him, and neither is us asking Prophet to pray for us.

 

However the intercession has it's limits, and they shouldn't be taken as lords holding creation in their hands and their choice and delegated the affair of creation. This would be exactly the shirk of Mushrikeen.

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  • Advanced Member

(salam)

Welcome brother! I know how amazing the feeling is, it feels like you have unlocked such a beautiful secret and it's so bright you just want to share it with everyone around you!

By the way, where are you from? I'm from Lebanon.

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  • Advanced Member

(salam)

Welcome brother! I know how amazing the feeling is, it feels like you have unlocked such a beautiful secret and it's so bright you just want to share it with everyone around you!

By the way, where are you from? I'm from Lebanon.

Salam, brother! Thank you!

I'm from Dhaka, Bangladesh--the ancient seat of Shi'ite power in the Indian subcontinent, as well as the last stronghold of the Shia Nawabs :)

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  • Veteran Member

Salam,

He is dead. Time has passed. He can no longer research, study, and proclaim fatwas. They are void. He is umm imo, not really a marja tbh. I dont think any of the grand ayatollahs ever recognized him as one. With due respect to those who follow him as one.

I think you should revise your notes about taqlid. Or in that particular case, do a proper taqlid of your marja, whoever he is.

A fatwa is not considered void once a mujtahid dies.

I ask you again, would our maraja allow their followers to commit shirk?

I was reading another thread on which some people were advocating the fact to do sujud while invoking Fatima. I really could not understand how Mujtahids could allow their followers to do the prostration, which is an act dedicated to Allah (swt) only, invoking His creatures directly -even from Ahlul bait (as)- without fearing that of those followers would mix the two concept and actually fall into shirk.

My answer to myself was that they could not. There will probably be people who will actually fall into shirk but some others will understand the concept differently and invoke Allah through Fatima (even I don't get the subtility especially if you adress her directly but that's another debate).

Maybe that's why they don't forbid such practice, because it doesn't necessarily lead to shirk...

Even if 90% of the people are wrong, the 10% will justify that the fatwa allows it. But again, is that worth it?

So to answer your question, of course they won't, but their fatwa may, in some cases, mislead some people.

And Sorry to OP for derailing your thread.

Welcome to the Islam of Muhammad (sawas) and his Progeny :)

Edited by realizm
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