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Khalilallah

Tatbir Is Fabricated And Un-Islamic

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Most people would be horrified by the sight of blood and flagellation and so they will not decide to become one of them, for the few who become shia because of the sight of blood and flagellation then he/she has joined Shia Islam for the wrong reason, Hitting oneself with blades is suicidal and has no basis in Islam.

 

Hussein will give Shafa? what are those ambulances doing waiting near by?

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And just imagine how many thousand (if not more) will never accept Shi'ism soley due to Tatbir? 

 

I can see how a practice such as tatbir seen in isolation may repel a prospective inquirer, but I believe that those who are unlikely to accept Shi'ism on account of tatbir are unlikely to accept it in spite of it. There could be wajibaats or other beliefs which non-Muslims or non-Sunnis object to, and don't allow themselves to be convinced about.

 

That said, I have never seen someone mention tatbir as the sole or main reason for not accepting Shi'ism (because there are already so many Shias who reject this ritual). The disagreements are always about core Shia beliefs and that's for us Imamat and the issue of successorship. All the rest flows from this.

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منتخب الطريحي ج2 ص478 وجلاء العيون للسيد عبد الله شبر ج2 ص238 وعوالم الإمام الحسين (عليه السلام) للشيخ عبد الله البحراني ص373.

البحار جزء 45 صفحه 112

 

 

Sorry. What you quoted was not a San'ad. Brother, I suggest you learn some basic narration science. Your only quoting references.

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

(wasalam) 

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Sorry. What you quoted was not a San'ad. Brother, I suggest you learn some basic narration science. Your only quoting references.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

(wasalam)

I already gave you the Masdar and here are the narrations. You still deny this Hadith? Inshallah one day you will find the right path.

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My layman understanding:

 

Tatbir/Zanjeer Matam are not Obligatory.

 

People were not encouraged to participate, they do it on Voluntary basis[based on their understanding]

 

Any Non Muslims[sincere seeker of Truth] looking into Al-Islam, is very aware of the Obligatory and voluntary acts.

 

Is this a matter covered under Islamic Fiqh?

 

If its a matter covered under Islamic Fiqh(Jurisprudence) All Jurist will be obligated to have a Ruling.[some Jurist allow, some stay silent and some recommend don’t do it]

 

Some Jurist, do not want to handle it, since they leave this issue between the mourner and the Syeda Fatima Zahra[as], as the intention[to feel close on the Imam[as] on the Day of Ashura] is for her son. Mostly Jurist stay out of anything to do with Azadari for the Son of Syeda Fatima Zahra[as].[of course this does not cover anything illegal, immoral, unethical under Islam]

 

There is definitely a purpose for it[ based on the person performing these acts, their intention ]

 

Issue is more to do with some in the shia community do not like it due to its perceived disadvantage to the image if islam[mostly in the west, Iran is an exception as the world is after anything they do, they may not want additional scrutiny].

In the west, what percentage of Gen Y and  Millennials are actually involved. [Trend is obvious]. Westerners will find ways to adjust, to say that we can completely stop it, Ashura and Bloodletting relationship will stay, in one form or the other. Maybe very minimal in the west. In middle east and Asia it will be a bigger part of Ashura.

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I must admit, that is probably a smart move, becuase it makes Shiaism look very backward and babaric, I'll let you all on alittle secret, when my brothers and I use to Shia hitting themselves with their hands, blades and God knows what else on TV, we use to laugh, we use to say, that is why they are the minority in the Islamic world, becuase anyone that sees the blood, the crazy jumping and hitting is repulsed by it, BTW isn't it haram to harm yourself, I mean if you can't drink alcohol because it harms your body, then how about beating yourself up? I think your Khamenia was spot on.

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I must admit, that is probably a smart move, becuase it makes Shiaism look very backward and babaric, I'll let you all on alittle secret, when my brothers and I use to Shia hitting themselves with their hands, blades and God knows what else on TV, we use to laugh, we use to say, that is why they are the minority in the Islamic world, becuase anyone that sees the blood, the crazy jumping and hitting is repulsed by it, BTW isn't it haram to harm yourself, I mean if you can't drink alcohol because it harms your body, then how about beating yourself up? I think your Khamenia was spot on.

My sincere advisor, You are sure that it didn’t happen something like, Oh, My God, what did they do the blessed grandson of the Prophet Muhammad[pbuh ahp], On the day of Ashura, He was covered in blood from head to toe, what kind of people will do this, let, me see, wait, I follow them and their Islam. Mind immediately went into denial mode, then your body compensate that denial by laughing it off to lessen the trauma of false ideology you have been following.

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I already gave you the Masdar and here are the narrations. You still deny this Hadith? Inshallah one day you will find the right path.

 

It's mursal. Check the original hadeeth in al-Bihar. Allamah al-Majlisi says روى مرسلا عن مسلم الجصاص قال [it has been narrated in mursal fashion from Muslim al-Jasas who said...]

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My sincere advisor, You are sure that it didn’t happen something like, Oh, My God, what did they do the blessed grandson of the Prophet Muhammad[pbuh ahp], On the day of Ashura, He was covered in blood from head to toe, what kind of people will do this, let, me see, wait, I follow them and their Islam. Mind immediately went into denial mode, then your body compensate that denial by laughing it off to lessen the trauma of false ideology you have been following.

 

You've got to be kidding me, you are making me laugh now, wallahi nothing can be further then the truth, never in my entire life, did I blame myself or my Religion for that crime, we are not responsible for his death, no one is, it happened 1,400 years ago, get on with it and move on.

 

No we use to laugh at morons that hit themselves something that was laughable, because it was weirdand strange and foreign to us as we had no contact with any Shia, the first time I knew about Shia tatbir was from Aljazeera. 

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Seeing a proper Sunni against it, I only feel more confident about tutbir. ;)

Makes me realize that there are alot of parhay likhay jahil in my society who feel proud when people call them by the name of shah gee & they just stand in the vip section of matam ground & hit their chest slowly while the diyari baaz put on the real show :P

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Has it never occured to anyone why only one line of the narration of Hz Bibi Zainab striking her head is quoted and never more then that. Anyone reading the narration in full will see its a lie . Even a simple soul like me see so many inconsistencies in it. Unfortunately cant seem to find the narration in full. Perhaps some foolhardy blood letter hoping to prove me wrong can post it


Seeing a proper Sunni against it, I only feel more confident about tutbir. ;)

More fool you


Why would you reject tatbir? Dont tell me you also reject the hadith of Sayida Zainab (as) hitting her head as well. Tatbir is the biggest and most sacred ritual of Imam Hussayn, nobody has the right to say its haram. This recent Muharram there was close to 3 million people doing this sacred Ritual all over Iraq and espically in Karbala.

 

Those who attack Tatbir are Ja'hel


All of our rightful Ulama'a has spoken as well

 

Any Marja who speaks aganst Tatbir is just plain stupidity.

 

quote the narration in full if you got the guts and lets see who is stupid

Edited by A true Sunni

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Most people would be horrified by the sight of blood and flagellation and so they will not decide to become one of them, for the few who become shia because of the sight of blood and flagellation then he/she has joined Shia Islam for the wrong reason, Hitting oneself with blades is suicidal and has no basis in Islam.

 

Hussein will give Shafa? what are those ambulances doing waiting near by?

 

Most people would be horrified when adulterer and rapists are stoned to death. Most people would be horrified to see a murderer hanged to death. 

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