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kiptanui

Nakshawani Speaks About Marjas

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i dont understand some things

listen around 1 hour mark

qum said fadlallah is devient

muhammad shirazi and shariatmadri arrested

if you study in hawza for 19 years ur stupid

khui said he never made mistakes in fiqh.

khomeini interrupted people.

so many things i dont get.

 

Which part don't you understand?

btw, small correction, he didn't say Khomeini interrupted people, he said Khomeini would ignore you if you were talking nonsense and continue his lecture. 

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i dont believe khomeini was so rude! he wont ignore his students ... he will correct them. i dont think khui was arrogant. i think this is NOT TRUE. a man takes 19 years to be mujtahid he is stupid???? pssshhhht!

Edited by kiptanui

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(salam)

[I think we can do without this type of comment, which anyway detracts from the factual case you present below]   :wacko:

 

This lecture has too many factual flaws (just like the ISIS one, but this one seems to have more) - some of them have been summarized by the member above. That being said, there are some sour truths as well. 

 

Wassalam

Edited by Haji 2003
made accusations about N's motivation

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Sayed Ammar has angered so many people regarding his Muharrum lectures this year, especially his talk about Taqlid and the ISIS lecture (where he blamed all Palestinians for ISIS)

The guy is very good at explaining Islamic history and has good knowledge but he definitely needs to be more tactful when he talks...it seems like he thrives on being controversial and has the youth around his fingers!

Edited by Mommin

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Sayed Ammar has angered so many people regarding his Muharrum lectures this year, especially his talk about Taqlid and the ISIS lecture (where he blamed all Palestinians for ISIS)

The guy is very good at explaining Islamic history and has good knowledge but he definitely needs to be more tactful when he talks...it seems like he thrives on being controversial and has the youth around his fingers!

 

Why and who is are they angry? isnt he stating facts? if his arguments did not have evidence then they have a right to be otherwise people shouldnt be senstive, these are issues that need to be addressed. 

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This is what has been said on Facebook and other social network sites:-

NOT HAPPY by Muhammed A

I have lost a lot of respect for Sayed Ammar Nakshawani. I am very disappointed in him. 

He recently gave a lecture under the title "''History and Evolution of Taqlid". In this lecture he was very rude and disrespectful towards our scholars and the students of the hawza. For example, he was making fun of our scholars in the hawza who take other people to ziyarah. He was also extremely rude towards our scholars who have not reached the level mujtahid after spending a certain amount of time in the hawza, he was basically calling them idiots. A brother who does not wished to be named also commented on this lecture. I will post his comment with his permission.

"Sayed Ammar made some basic points about the necessity of taqleed, but then he made a great deal of confusion and raised a lot of misconceptions. From one side he stressed on the need of Taqlid and from another side he belittled the marja'yiah. 

The importance of Taqlid and marji'ya is not restricted to the necessity of Taqlid. There is also the sanctity of the marji'ya that needs to be kept uphold. As soon as the marji'ya loses it's sanctity, the public will lose respect for it. The public won't revere it and pay attention to it anymore. This leads to division in the shia community. If you want shia unity the first thing you need is a respected and revered leadership, otherwise don't worry about it. Besides this point, it is not good for the shia school of thought because the marja'yi is the face of shia Islam. It's the authority that represents us on a global scale . If we don't respect the maraji other schools of thought will lose respect for the madhab. 

Sayed ammar in the lecture made a mockery out of the system. He mocked the method of identifying the 'alam ( the most knowledgable marja) , if he doesn't understand how it works , he should keep quiet. He tried to imply that the motive behind having one marja is to have all the Khums given to that marja. He also made it seem like the maraji' themselves are confused about the concept of Marji'ya and every while they need to update it. He gave the example of how imam khomaini r.a 'introduced welayat alfaqih' and how this shows evolution in the concept of marji'ya. He tried to give the example of how sayed alkhoei r.a was against this form of "marja'eya". The truth is sayed ammar confused marji'ya with welayat alfaqih. Secondly, welayat alfaqih, existed hundreds of years before imam khomayni r.a but the shia ulama never had the chance to practice like today. Thirdly, sayed alkhoei r.a has the opinion that the scholar has the right to practise as much authority necessary to protect the Islamic government and system. So sayed ammar's claim about evolution in maraji'yah in this sense is baseless. 

Another example he gave to support his so called " evolution of marja'eya" was the fatwa of sayed sistani h.a about jihad, he said that this was as "so un-najaf".This is very untrue the famous Iraqi revolution in 1920 against the British was by the order of the maraji' . Also the famous uprising in the month of sha'ban against saddam was by the order of sayed alkhoei r.a. 

There are many misconceptions which he raised which were either untrue or unrelated to what was being said (he commonly referred to ulama having different opinions as evolution in marji'ya when this is merely ijtihad of the scholar). The message he was trying to give to the public is damaging. He raised a lot of questioning and doubts in regards to the order and the system of marji'ya. The problem is many of the people listening to him don't know any better and view him as knowledgeable speaker , so they will believe what says. Finally, if he truly believes that marji'ya is the duty of the scholars and not the laymen, why is he as a "non scholar", calling for an evolution in regards to being allowed to follow more than one marja'? Is this not a scholarly issue that requires scholars who are equipped with the tools of ijtihad and are aware of the method of research to discuss and research?"

I will post a link to the lecture that I am talking about ... There is a big difference between a good speaker and a knowledgably speaker. We should always follow the knowledgably speakers who have studied in the hawza and who are qualified to speak about Islam. Please share this for the sake of standing up for the truth and for the sake of standing up for the Hawza and our great scholars ... Do not worship personalities, worship Allah and stand up for the truth, and don't worry about the haters to tell you otherwise, they can do nothing for you on Judgement Day ... And if possible, please show this to Sayed Ammar himself so he can correct his ways.

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Okay guys someone should try and contact Sayed Ammar as it's not fair on him if people try to attack him on the Internet in this way...someone should pass that Facebook page to him so he can read others comments.

Someone must have his email address or something...he needs to made aware!

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I agree. I lost lots of respect for him. Now I take his lectures with a grain of salt. No shia should dare belittle our Marjas. He spoke very rudely and spread misconceptions.

Why take everything he says with a grain of salt now??

I stopped listening to him the moment he denied that the "satanic verses" weren't in ANY of our sources.. that incident is clear as day in Tafsir Qummi.

He uses taqiyyah on his audience, and he isn't the only one

Edited by rafidhi1986

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Brothers and Sisters, Sayed Ammar Nakshwani is not an infallible and can make mistakes . Let us look at him positively and acknowledge that he is one of the most knowledgable and inspiring speakers in our generation today even though he sometimes makes mistakes in his speech.

 

Maybe he's been hurt badly in the past by some Ulema or scholars? and is speaking from experience?

 

We should try and give him the benefit of the doubt, and take the good from his talk and leave the rest to Allah.

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Brothers and Sisters, Sayed Ammar Nakshwani is not an infallible and can make mistakes . Let us look at him positively and acknowledge that he is one of the most knowledgable and inspiring speakers in our generation today even though he sometimes makes mistakes in his speech.

 

Maybe he's been hurt badly in the past by some Ulema or scholars? and is speaking from experience?

 

We should try and give him the benefit of the doubt, and take the good from his talk and leave the rest to Allah.

 

I have not watched the lecture yet so dont want to pass judgment. What I will say is I will not be happy at all if I hear him speaking rudely or badly against our maraji'i. I will defend them in any way I can.

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Does it shock people that ALL of us, including our speakers like Ammar, still have room for growth and development?  That we haven't fully matured yet?  That every word we say isnt always of divine essence? 

 

Ammar is a young guy, just like many of us.  He has much more knowledge than the rest of us do, and has given many positive lectures and has been a positive force in the community. 

 

Criticism and discussion of his viewpoints are healthy in an academic way, which I'm sure he would welcome.  What I don't get are people expecting him to be perfect, and then becoming disappointed when (surprise), he's not.  Yes, I understand somebody of his position has certain responsibilities and obligations, but he's only human like us. 

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^^ again, i have not watched the lecture - i will do tomorrow insha'Allah. But the  'he's not perfect' 'he's just human' argument applies in most cases, but NOT in this case.  there is NO excuse to attack our Maraji'i - i'm sorry you cant go around doing that and then expecting people to make excuses for you. It's just not right. There are red lines and to me and most people. attack the marji'i is crossing the line and to use that excuse is pathetic. 

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No, it applies in ALL cases, because we are always human 100% of the time.  There's never a time or moment when we cease to be. 

 

If someone has an issue, respond academically and raise points, instead of inciting online flame mobs. 

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Why take everything he says with a grain of salt now??

I stopped listening to him the moment he denied that the "satanic verses" weren't in ANY of our sources.. that incident is clear as day in Tafsir Qummi.

He uses taqiyyah on his audience, and he isn't the only one

So you believe that the Prophet (pbuh) was influenced by the whispers of Shaytan into giving wrong revelation?

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Criticism and discussion of his viewpoints are healthy in an academic way, which I'm sure he would welcome.  What I don't get are people expecting him to be perfect, and then becoming disappointed when (surprise), he's not.  Yes, I understand somebody of his position has certain responsibilities and obligations, but he's only human like us. 

 

I hope you see the irony of what you are saying. The academic process of argumentation is generally a very gradual one, in any field, in my opinion. For many academics, you develop your points over a period of time. And relatively slowly you build up credibility. Once you have that you can take on well established notions.

 

I should add that attracting young people to your majalis because of your charisma, is not a means of building credibility.

 

Of course there are exceptions to this. People who, at a young age, can challenge the status quo. But then they'd have the intellectual mettle to see their argument through. Let's see whether the Sayed has the capability to do this.

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I hope you see the irony of what you are saying. The academic process of argumentation is generally a very gradual one, in any field, in my opinion. For many academics, you develop your points over a period of time. And relatively slowly you build up credibility. Once you have that you can take on well established notions.

 

I should add that attracting young people to your majalis because of your charisma, is not a means of building credibility.

 

Of course there are exceptions to this. People who, at a young age, can challenge the status quo. But then they'd have the intellectual mettle to see their argument through. Let's see whether the Sayed has the capability to do this.

 

Exactly, and this will become known over time. 

 

People made an error by putting him on a pedestal with extremely high expectations, but isn't it natural for us to latch on to youthful, charismatic personalities?  Finding role models?  Aren't we in dire need of contemporary ones, especially in the English speaking world? 

 

Perhaps there isn't yet a foundation of solid intellectual credibility, but what else can we have in the meantime?  He got us thinking when most of us otherwise wouldn't have thought.  He got us caring when we otherwise might not have cared.  Maybe the devoted geeks here on Shiachat would have been fine without him, but there are many lost souls out there in the real world, whom I'm sure have benefited, and now have a base of understanding, which can then grow with the help of others with more intellectual capability.  I don't think he ever claimed to be the end all, but merely a stepping stone.  

 

We are in desperate need for individuals to link the commoners like us with the giants at the top.  If we keep breaking down the middleman, we will continue to be dazed and confused. 

 

Just a perspective, and has nothing to do with the actual content of this lecture. 

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I dont think anyone puts any speaker on the pedestal. People were a fond of his lectures because initially he was giving brilliant speeches field with islamic wisdom. Just as any group of people are with any other influential person. They loved the way he presented his topics and spoke on issues. But then, as in now, his positions and his attitude differed as when he was initially. This is now bringing up question marks due to the validity of his statements.

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I don't see why its a problem to just take the good in his lectures and just ignore the bad. If I go to listen to his lecture and expect everything he says is good or true than Im an Ignorant fool. Majority of his lectures have much truth than falsehood.  

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So you believe that the Prophet (pbuh) was influenced by the whispers of Shaytan into giving wrong revelation?

Have you read the version of it in Tafsir Qummi?

I'm assuming you have not...

The story is very similar to Tabri version, except it wasn't the Holy Prophet that heard whispers, it was a Mushrik that manipulated the people into thinking the Holy Prophet praised Manat, and Uzza.

That's Qummis opinion anyway

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True, he should not say anything against maraje. When he knows that people are upset about this, I think he will apologize for it. Apparently the youth like him because he is speaking English which they can relate to. It is sad that he cannot do anything without somebody complaining about something. I remember when people were complaining that why he wore a black cap, that he should wear a white cap. Now you see he has nothing on his head, accommodating everyone. He is young and finding himself. 

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@ Hameedeh

Do you really think he will apologise?

He's probably too busy and has already got on with his life...

As I've said before it seems he's had a bad experience before maybe with Ulema and scholars so is telling his side of the story!

Edited by Mommin

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(salam)

(Bismillah)

Have you read the version of it in Tafsir Qummi?
I'm assuming you have not...

The story is very similar to Tabri version, except it wasn't the Holy Prophet that heard whispers, it was a Mushrik that manipulated the people into thinking the Holy Prophet praised Manat, and Uzza.

That's Qummis opinion anyway

 

Where did you read that at? In my copy of Tafsir al-Qummi at home it says no such thing. Please bring the Arabic text and translation of this.

 

(salam)

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@ Hameedeh

Do you really think he will apologise?

He's probably too busy and has already got on with his life...

As I've said before it seems he's had a bad experience before maybe with Ulema and scholars so is telling his side of the story!

I am not a fan of his, but for his own character building and for soothing the people who were upset by his remarks, I hope that he apologizes for what he said about maraje and the howza students.

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(salam)

(Bismillah)

Where did you read that at? In my copy of Tafsir al-Qummi at home it says no such thing. Please bring the Arabic text and translation of this.

(salam)

Tafsir Qummi page 442

In regards to Surah Hajj Ayah 52

My Qummi was published in Beirut on 1435.

If this isn't sufficient for you, then I will take a picture and post it...

Edited by rafidhi1986

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