Irreligion Among Diaspora Iranians

[Zendegi]

One of the things I have noticed living in the West, an issue I have wondering a lot about lately is the irreligion of many diaspora Iranians where many of them have practising Muslims relatives in Iran such as their parents and grandparents.  Many I have come around are unreligious and dishonour their Muslim heritage where many have become Agnostic and Atheist, where this seems very contrasting to todays Iran which we hear a lot about on the news and think of as a religious country. 

 

From my experience a lot of diaspora Iranians have a negative image of Islam cause of recent historical events such as the 1979 Iranian Revolution where Iran became a more strictly practising Muslim country, where the current regime have became more controlling of peoples private lives and also unrelated events to do with Iran such as 9/11 and the other infamous events and things associated with Islam and Muslims.

 

I feel the current theocracy of the Iran, has created a negative image of Islam for many dissuaded Iranians especially the younger generation who seek more freedoms and opportunities. The government in Iran has created an unwanted backlash and also misunderstand against Islam especially among those mostly living in Western countries in Europe, North America and including Australia.

 

So far books and article have been written by Iranians in the West, and speak of Islam as a backward faith, opposed to freedom and modernity and speak harshly of the Arabs who invaded there homeland many centuries ago and bought an extreme barbaric ideology which took away there supposed freedoms and there great Persian culture. Many of them have suggested choosing so called "moderate" and "peaceful" religions such as Zoroastrianism and Christianity, where a clear-eyed examination suggest all religions have positive or negative seeming aspects. Its not difficult to find verses to do with the perpetration of violence in the Bible, to justify there unfair justifications against Islam.

 

As far as compatibility of Islam with advancement and Iranian culture is concerned, one should remember the many great Medieval Iranian thinkers, writers and scientists who helped established the modern foundations of thought, literature and science all came from within the great Islamic Civilization.

 

If Islam has any hope of truly being worshipped by diaspora Iranians it must then be freed from the control of the government of Iran, who have done so many wrongs and abuses under the name of Islam and whose policies do not provide for the freedoms and liberties of Iranians. 

[ChattingwithShias]

There's about 1234098 threads about this topic on Shiachat already.

[narsis]

Bismillah.

 

Salaam.

 

Your writing shows lack of knowledge about Iran and its people; those whom you see in west are a very little majority of Iranian, who cannot be the perfect representatives of Iran society, who were Muslims just by heritage and they did not any study in Islam; they were in a blessing (born in an Islamic family) but they did not noticed that. Many of them hate being Muslim because they like to drink alcohol or to have unlimited sex experiences or being freed from Hijab or etc. But if you come to Iran or at least read the true books or articles, you will realize that the majority of Iranians love Islam and their regime. Do not make your judgment based on the medias which are opponent of Islamic regime of Iran.

 

With Duas.

 

Narsis.

[Haydar Husayn]

I'm not exactly know as Iran's greatest supporter on here, but personally I think that those who go on about Arabs destroying their 'great civilisation', who want the freedom to drink some alcohol here and there, and who generally have no interest in being anything more than nominal Muslims, should just stay in the West and shut up about Iran. Such people have nothing serious to contribute to the debate, because they are in a state of jahiliyya.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Haydar Husayn

[Khalilallah]

One of the things I have noticed living in the West, an issue I have wondering a lot about lately is the irreligion of many diaspora Iranians where many of them have practising Muslims relatives in Iran such as their parents and grandparents.  Many I have come around are unreligious and dishonour their Muslim heritage where many have become Agnostic and Atheist, where this seems very contrasting to todays Iran which we hear a lot about on the news and think of as a religious country. 

 

From my experience a lot of diaspora Iranians have a negative image of Islam cause of recent historical events such as the 1979 Iranian Revolution where Iran became a more strictly practising Muslim country, where the current regime have became more controlling of peoples private lives and also unrelated events to do with Iran such as 9/11 and the other infamous events and things associated with Islam and Muslims.

how does the Iranian Government control people's private life?

 

If you mean hijab then obviously that is a public matter when a girl walks around in public with no Hijab. This is about the only "private" aspect of people's lives the regime controls.

If Islam has any hope of truly being worshipped by diaspora Iranians it must then be freed from the control of the government of Iran, who have done so many wrongs and abuses under the name of Islam and whose policies do not provide for the freedoms and liberties of Iranians. 

Islam has no need to be worshipped, God has no need to be worshipped, but people need Islam and people need God. I do not think you or those diaspora Iranians have much of an understanding on Islam.

 

Also Islam is not something you change or make comprises so that idiot, ignorant animals can be attracted to it.

 

And usually what they mean by modernity and freedom is to let men strip women half naked, to make women seem attractive to sinful men gazing at them in public, discard the Hijab. Modernity means to wear tight clothing, wear good looking clothing, show off wealth by driving expensive cars and to generally try to make people jealous about everything. but they give it such a nice name. 

 

People are as free as they wanna be, Islam is not against that, Islam says you are free so long as your freedom does not annoy others or deviate others.

Edited October 28, 2014 by SF Taha

[baqar]

The Iranian government may not be at fault but I agree that Iranians living outside Iran seem to be more anti-Islam than Indian Muslims, Pakistani Muslims or Arab Muslims living outside their countries.

 

And the Iranians do not seem to be particularly interested in defending their image and the message of Islam in a manner that would deflate their enemies.

[ChattingwithShias]

Most Iranians aren't as religious as their neighbors. People who are religious in Iran for the most part have very liberal and mystical/progressive interpretations of the religion that most Arabs and Pakistanis would frown on. The first time I met Arabs and South Asians I was shocked at how literalist and strict they were in practicing Islam. There are people like that in Iran obviously, but definitely not close to a majority. So it's not a diaspora or regime issue. It's just how the culture has always been.

[Zendegi]

I have never made my judgements based on the media to let you know. I can easily established the reality from what the media says. I have an extensive knowledge of the region as a whole, which includes Iran and its people and I am not making up stuff, I am talking facts and reality. Yes, many Iranians do feel attached to the regime in Iran especially amongst the older generation many of whom were involved in the 1979 Revolution. The younger generation are frequently becoming alienated towards this regime and you have to understand that this generation differs a lot from the generation of their parents and grandparents who were born all before 1979. Remember more than half of Iran's population is under the age of 35, if the regime doesn't change its ways and listen to the younger generation soon the Islamic Revolution could fall in a matter of decades. A lot of the young Iranians who finish University end up having difficulty finding jobs for themselves in the country due to the dire economic situation of Iran and have no choice but to migrate to Western countries for Jobs, where Iran has one of the highest brain drain rates in the world.  

 

I know this thread is about diaspora Iranians but I feel this is interconnected with people in Iran as a whole not just diaspora. One of the most disgraceful parts of this regime past history, was the fraudulent rigged 2009 Elections, where everyone knows Mir Hossein Mousavi won the election not Mahmoud Ahmadinejhad, but the hardliners can't cope with a reformist being elected again since Khatami, now the regime has realised the consequences of ever doing such a thing again and finally there is now Rouhani, a reformist.

 

Very much indeed, this regime after 1979 has been mending in people private life, even President Rouhani has acknowledged it himself and is trying to remove many restrictions among common people but its not easy because of the hardliners like Khamanei. Its not just Hijabs there are various other social restrictions placed upon people. The regime as usual uses Islam as a justification for their propaganda and actions, time and time again, which they should not do. By Modernity and Freedom I obviously did not mean women or men striping down semi-naked, there is much broader meanings of Modernity and Freedom then what you guys have narrowed down to.

[narsis]

I have never made my judgements based on the media to let you know. I can easily established the reality from what the media says. I have an extensive knowledge of the region as a whole, which includes Iran and its people and I am not making up stuff, I am talking facts and reality. Yes, many Iranians do feel attached to the regime in Iran especially amongst the older generation many of whom were involved in the 1979 Revolution. The younger generation are frequently becoming alienated towards this regime and you have to understand that this generation differs a lot from the generation of their parents and grandparents who were born all before 1979. Remember more than half of Iran's population is under the age of 35, if the regime doesn't change its ways and listen to the younger generation soon the Islamic Revolution could fall in a matter of decades. A lot of the young Iranians who finish University end up having difficulty finding jobs for themselves in the country due to the dire economic situation of Iran and have no choice but to migrate to Western countries for Jobs, where Iran has one of the highest brain drain rates in the world.  

 

I know this thread is about diaspora Iranians but I feel this is interconnected with people in Iran as a whole not just diaspora. One of the most disgraceful parts of this regime past history, was the fraudulent rigged 2009 Elections, where everyone knows Mir Hossein Mousavi won the election not Mahmoud Ahmadinejhad, but the hardliners can't cope with a reformist being elected again since Khatami, now the regime has realised the consequences of ever doing such a thing again and finally there is now Rouhani, a reformist.

 

Very much indeed, this regime after 1979 has been mending in people private life, even President Rouhani has acknowledged it himself and is trying to remove many restrictions among common people but its not easy because of the hardliners like Khamanei. Its not just Hijabs there are various other social restrictions placed upon people. The regime as usual uses Islam as a justification for their propaganda and actions, time and time again, which they should not do. By Modernity and Freedom I obviously did not mean women or men striping down semi-naked, there is much broader meanings of Modernity and Freedom then what you guys have narrowed down to.

 

Have u been in Iran yet?

[baradar_jackson]

Salaam

 

This topic has been discussed at length, by myself and other members.

 

To summarize, there are a combination of factors which has made it that most Iranian expatriates are irreligious or indifferent to religion.

 

Firstly, the greater inclusiveness of the Iranian education system following the triumph of the revolution has made the middle class soosooli lifestyle more widespread among the people.

 

However, this lifestyle has certain social phenomena associated with it; namely, it tends to push God to the background.

 

When people have more options for entertainment and food, and live comfortable lives, religion tends to fade away from their lives.

 

These are the same people who are most likely to leave the country, because they are more capable of doing this financially and more inclined toward "fleeing" a land where there are a bunch of restrictions on them which they don't agree with.

 

This is the basic dynamic at work.

[nemesis]

Bissmillah

Peace and blessings to all.

As an Iranian of Armenian origin , I do have seen this trend in many Iranians in the diaspora .

However to be brief I don't think it only Iranians who loose religion many others I see do as well . I have touched upon this topic in the past but I believe it's to do more with Nationalism then anything else .

When you are a nationalist you see your country as God a representation of you identity , this in some cases does not work religious identity .

You see pan Iranians praising Cyrus and other demi gods and kings , Armenians as well nationalist Armenians some do not see the authority of the church as a ruling guide , turks same pan turks are less about religion then serving the Grey Wolf .

We may ask why we don't see this issue in the Arabs , I think because the tribal makeup of the Arabian peninsula and culture which has less nationalism rooted in its society allows for more deep rooted religious makeup , thus you will find Arabs not leaving religion .

This is just a snippet of what I think but great discussion all together

N

Edited October 30, 2014 by nemesis

[Spicen]

I think theres irreligion rising among young iranians too, if the media is to be believed.

But joon777- gotta ask one question. These atheists who have problems with religion supposedly ruling their lives, they have no problem in letting other things rule their lives. If islam tells them not to drink, eat ham or be se***lly promiscuous, they say, " I dont want superstitious religion ruling my life."

Yet when these people are told by the doctor to not drink, eat ham or be promiscuous, they say, "Oh doc your my lory, ill follow ur every command."

They have HUGE problems letting religion dictate their lives but they listen to doctors, idolise film actors/actresses. They let something else rule their lives.

Its happening everywhere, not only among iranians. However the trend among iranians seem to be more than most.

[Zendegi]

I believe all ethnic groups worldwide are deeply rooted in their desire for Nationalism than for religion which comes just behind, where this not just the case for Iranians and likewise Armenians. But also for Arabs from Morocco to the Arabian Peninsula, are deeply rooted in their desires for a Pan-Arab identity and culture, which has been historically quite influenced by Islam, but if you look at countries like Lebanon where a great portion of the Christians, they are not Muslim but still consider themselves apart of the greater Arab identity. Arab culture is quite immense, which does not just focus on religion which is one part of it, it include food, literature, music, architecture, art and philosophy. At one point, there was a lot of focus on Arab Nationalism and unity amongst Arab nations many decades ago, there were even plans to unite secularist Arab countries like Egypt, Libya, Jordan, Iraq and few others to form a strong world power and coalition competing with the USA and Soviet Union but fell out in favor after 1967 war defeat to Israel.

 

Most irreligious Iranians, take many Ancient Iranian festivals very seriously such Nowrooz and Chaharshanbe Suri, than of course Islamic festivals. During the Safavid era, Shia Islam and Persian became really intertwined and inseparable with each other which has produced the Modern Iranian culture, but I feel the Shia Islamic part is quietly moving away or has even already moved away from the rest of Persian Culture sadly.

 

Spicen I totally get your point and have no reason to deny what your are saying. Of course if they don't follow religion something else will rule their lives and of course the trend is becoming popular among diaspora Iranians.

[baradar_jackson]

Bissmillah

Peace and blessings to all.

As an Iranian of Armenian origin , I do have seen this trend in many Iranians in the diaspora .

However to be brief I don't think it only Iranians who loose religion many others I see do as well . I have touched upon this topic in the past but I believe it's to do more with Nationalism then anything else .

When you are a nationalist you see your country as God a representation of you identity , this in some cases does not work religious identity .

You see pan Iranians praising Cyrus and other demi gods and kings , Armenians as well nationalist Armenians some do not see the authority of the church as a ruling guide , turks same pan turks are less about religion then serving the Grey Wolf .

We may ask why we don't see this issue in the Arabs , I think because the tribal makeup of the Arabian peninsula and culture which has less nationalism rooted in its society allows for more deep rooted religious makeup , thus you will find Arabs not leaving religion .

This is just a snippet of what I think but great discussion all together

N

 

Bro nemesis I agree with the points you have mentioned, but I think the secret behind the Arabs lies in this:

 

Arab civilization, Arab culture, Arab language... these things were rather obscure and (in the world stage) irrelevant before Islam.

 

It was Islam that has made everyone across the world become acquainted with Arabic language and culture. Otherwise, maybe Arabic would remain a very localized language and culture (like Kurdish or Baluchi or any number of languages which are not really relevant outside of their own regions).

 

 

 

Because of this, an Arab can actually not reject Islam outright unless he is a staunch anti-nationalist. Because the history is very clear on this: Islam is what caused this people and civilization to become strong and recognizable across the world (to the point that Arabic was the "language of the sea" in the middle ages, much like English is today).

[Zendegi]

Lets bump this thread back to the top. We can discuss Irreligious Iranians on here as well as the other thread.

[strength=Abbas]

Lets bump this thread back to the top. We can discuss Irreligious Iranians on here as well as the other thread.

I cant understand why u like to discuss about it?! All ppl have their beliefes! No difference where they are from or where they live. They do what they want!

[Zendegi]

^Ok then.. Anyways I already started this thread like months ago..

Edited February 26, 2015 by Joon777

[Don'tMakeAس]

It is obvious that the numerous people who hated having a proper Islamic government would have fled Iran after 1979. So I think it is pretty easy to see why their is little religious orientation among the Iranian Diaspora, most of whom have left the country only to escape Islam.

 

In my opinion, 'Iranians' who have run from their homeland like dogs, who are still living 2000 years in the past, who support secularist Pahlavis, and spend all their time ranting on online forums, have no right to call themselves Iranian. They have forsaken their culture, and are disillusioned into thinking that the times of idol-worshiping were a part of some grand civilization, by propaganda like these 'Prince of Persia' movies. :)

 

I cannot see how in the world your suggestion of replacing an Islamic government with a secular one will help at all.

[kamyar]

salam,

you (Zendegi) are saying many people who leave Iran are irreligious . but it can be a sign that Iran society is religious ,so they leave Iran to be in another country more suitable for them .

Edited March 3, 2015 by kamyar

[Zendegi]

salam,

you (Zendegi) are saying many people who leave Iran are irreligious . but it can be a sign that Iran society is religious ,so they leave Iran to be in another country more suitable for them .

The sought of atmosphere created by I.R has created quite negative image of Islam and religion as a whole among mainly young people, who want to later leave the country. I feel the desired version of I.R's Islam unfortunately does not seem workable or preferred by the Youth who will be the future of Iran. The unfortunate misunderstanding of Islam has alienated them and they therefore seek to move to the West to become non-religious or another religions. 

 

This how I personally understand it and you may understand it differently. Remember about half of the population of Iran is under 30 and therefore something has to be  done for religion to gain the respect it deserves from them.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Zendegi

[hasanhh]

(salam)

 

I started the thread "Get Rid of the Ayatollahs" citing Bolton expressing the one fundamental objective of US' "get Iran back" activities.

 

I view your thread's premise and wording as a recruiting drive, Zendegi.

 

(wasalam)

[Zendegi]

(salam)

 

I started the thread "Get Rid of the Ayatollahs" citing Bolton expressing the one fundamental objective of US' "get Iran back" activities.

 

I view your thread's premise and wording as a recruiting drive, Zendegi.

 

(wasalam)

I never said I wanted to get rid of the Islamic Republic and neither am interested in running any sought of campaign? I am just saying the people who run the country have to eventually change some of the policies and bring more moderation in the future.

[hasanhh]

What needs to be "moderate" ?

 

Iran -and other countries- are Islamic Republics.

 

Not lslamic State.

Edited March 3, 2015 by hasanhh

[Zendegi]

What needs to be "moderate" ?

Conservatives like Khamenei who run the country and many others.

[kamyar]

leader is not conservative , he is revolutionary . 

[Abbas Lover]

Conservatives like Khamenei who run the country and many others.

Is Sayyed Khamenei,conservative??

I know Basiji ppl voted for Jalili coz of Sayyed Khamenei!!! But Sayyed Khamenei,I think,is a smart man! I think he didnt vote for him!

And I can remember when AhmadiNejad was president and he did not do what Sayyed Khamenei wanted him! AhmadiNejad said him that u just have ONE vote in Iran! What does it mean?? It s the politely of dont interfere! And I can remember,AhmadiNejad was a conservative man! So Basiji ppl supported him! But I m confused! Coz of these Basiji ppl! They supported AhmadiNejad and then Jalili coz they were conservative and coz Sayyed Khamenei! So it means that Sayyed Khamenei is conservative?! So there is a dispute among conservatives?!

Does it mean that Iran has two leaders?! 1.Sayyed Khamenei of conservatives

2.Sayyed Khatami of reformists

[hasanhh]

(salam)

 

Zendegi: You might classify me as one of them thar "extremists", but as a Muslim, I cannot find anything "conservative" about a firm adherence to Islam.

 

Islam is progressive.

 

Particularly towards the Last Day.

[kamyar]

Is Sayyed Khamenei,conservative??

I know Basiji ppl voted for Jalili coz of Sayyed Khamenei!!! But Sayyed Khamenei,I think,is a smart man! I think he didnt vote for him!

 

you mean those who voted for Jalili are not smart?

by the way even enemies think about Islamic Revolution Leader the same you do (at least in some cases):

The strategic genius of Iran’s supreme leader,

 by Ray Takeyh , a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-strategic-triumph-of-irans-supreme-leader/2015/03/01/9cbfdd48-bec4-11e4-8668-4e7ba8439ca6_story.html

[Abbas Lover]

you mean those who voted for Jalili are not smart?

by the way even enemies think about Islamic Revolution Leader the same you do (at least in some cases):

The strategic genius of Iran’s supreme leader,

 by Ray Takeyh , a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-strategic-triumph-of-irans-supreme-leader/2015/03/01/9cbfdd48-bec4-11e4-8668-4e7ba8439ca6_story.html

Yes! I meant that!!! They r not smart in polticis field!!

In which cases exactly?!

[kamyar]

i mean as you think leader is smart even enemies thinks that he is smart.

but i GUESS he voted for Saied Jalili .

http://www.sernews.com/%D8%A7%D8%AE%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%B3%DB%8C%D8%A7%D8%B3%DB%8C/%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%A7%D9%8A%D8%AC-%D8%B4%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%B4-%D8%A2%D8%B1%D8%A7%DB%8C-%D8%B5%D9%86%D8%AF%D9%88%D9%82-110-%D8%AA%D9%87%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85-%D8%B4%D8%AF

[Abbas Lover]

i mean as you think leader is smart even enemies thinks that he is smart.

but i GUESS he voted for Saied Jalili .

http://www.sernews.com/اخبار-سیاسی/نتايج-شمارش-آرای-صندوق-110-تهران-اعلام-شد

But u know that Sayyed Khamenei is smart,dont u?!

Jalili is a good man! But he s not proper for being president!!

[kamyar]

But u know that Sayyed Khamenei is smart,dont u?!

Jalili is a good man! But he s not proper for being president!!

Clearly he is smart.

.رهبری:كساني سر كار بيايند كه مصداق «انّ الّذين قالوا ربّنا اللّه ثمّ استقاموا» باشند

vote for one who has  sign of this verse :those who said: 'Allah is our lord, ' and have then gone straight.

[Abbas Lover]

Clearly he is smart.

.رهبری:كساني سر كار بيايند كه مصداق «انّ الّذين قالوا ربّنا اللّه ثمّ استقاموا» باشند

vote for one who has  sign of this verse :those who said: 'Allah is our lord, ' and have then gone straight.

But he could not speak well! His power of speech was weak

[kamyar]

But he could not speak well! His power of speech was weak

wondering why you say so.

[Abbas Lover]

wondering why you say so.

U ve never listened to his speeches??

Edited March 4, 2015 by Abbas Lover