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HamzaTR

Martyrdom Operation In The Bible

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In the name of God, the lord of the oppressed.

 

Peace and blessings be upon Prophet Muhammad, his brothers (Prophets), his household and progeny, and especially upon the founder of the Islamic Revolution, Imam Khomeini, his successor, Imam Ali Khamenei and on the Hizbullahi nations.

 

I was reading some stories in the Bible, where I saw a passage much resembling to the martyrdom operation concept of Islam (Quran, 100:5). Okay, here we go:

 

"Then Samson prayed to the Lord, “Sovereign Lord, remember me. Please, God, strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes.” Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines!” Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived." (Judges 16:28-30)
 
It was an interesting read.
 
And my question is, are there more stories like this in the Bible? Thanks.
Edited by HamzaTR

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Samson was not a good person, he disobeyed God numerous amount of times, killed people to steal from them and just generally abused what God gave him because he could. They supposedly praised and thanked their gods, mocked God (in one interpretation; they made Samson their clown, claimed that their god was greater than God), and from that Samson prayed that his life be ended. He was hearing what they were saying, and said" Let me die with the Philistines" as both revenge for his eyes, and as a way of killing those who mocked both him and his Lord.

 

None are coming to mind, but Samson went down with his captors and humiliators. Although he had many sins, God still gave him one last chance to repent.

Edited by salamtek

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I know that the zionist regime is propagating "the Samson option",which means that they kill themselves and everybody else, when they will face defeat.

"The Samson Option is the name that some military analysts have given toIsrael's deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" if military attacks threaten its existence."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

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Samson was not a good person, he disobeyed God numerous amount of times, killed people to steal from them and just generally abused what God gave him because he could. They supposedly praised and thanked their gods, mocked God (in one interpretation; they made Samson their clown, claimed that their god was greater than God), and from that Samson prayed that his life be ended. He was hearing what they were saying, and said" Let me die with the Philistines" as both revenge for his eyes, and as a way of killing those who mocked both him and his Lord.

 

None are coming to mind, but Samson went down with his captors and humiliators. Although he had many sins, God still gave him one last chance to repent.

Let me guess, Samson was a jew.

The things he did is the definition of a jew.

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A bad way to go about it because Jesus was Jewish, but yes, he was a Jew.

 

No, Prophet Jesus (a.s.) was not Jewish as in faith. He was Israelite as in nation. There is difference between both. The Prophets who bring laws-sharia are not of other religions.

Edited by HamzaTR

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Nice euphemism, "martyrdom operations". I prefer the term suicide operation personally.

There is no such concept in Islam, since it's not in the Quran or in the teachings of the Prophet (pbuh). On the contrary, suicide is strictly prohibited, with no exceptions given. Some scholars may wish to legitimise it, but they don't decide what is and isn't part of Islam.

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No, Prophet Jesus (a.s.) was not Jewish as in faith. He was Israelite as in nation. There is difference between both. The Prophets who bring laws-sharia are not of other religions.

Jews could have been Muslims up until the time after Jesus, then it was Christians who were Muslims and then Muhammad came and that's the definition of Islam today. This is what baqar has lead me to believe, that at a point, being Jewish was being Muslim. Even our people (Arab Christians/Assyrians/Syriacs and the like) before Muhammad were considered Muslims. Therefore, Jesus was not only Jewish in faith, but also in ethnicity (meaning descended from Issac, Abraham, David, etc)

Edited by salamtek

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Would be good to expose which prophets bring forth sharia laws...the rest of the world is waiting.

 

There is no real record of all the 124,000 prophets that have graced humanity with their endeavours. However, in answer to your question,my understanding is that a revised set of laws was necessary every "so often", if you know what I mean.

 

I personally know only two prophets who brought a new set of laws - Moses and Muhammad - peace be on them both and their near and dear ones.

 

But surely, among the 124,000, a lot more must have also done so.  

 

No, Prophet Jesus (a.s.) was not Jewish as in faith. 

 

According to the definition of the term "Islam", the Jewish faith of the day could be seen as the "Islam" of the day.

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A bad way to go about it because Jesus was Jewish, but yes, he was a Jew.

Got two things to say about this:

1) 50% of US jews are atheists. Rabbis encourage "questioning God from top to bottom"(quoted from a rabbi). Are you saying Jesus questioned God from top to bottom? He was of Israel but not jewish. Best thing to say is that he was Abrahimic ratger than jewish.

2) Nailed it.

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@SO Placid- did yoi read the talmud?

As for this particular rabbi, no. But he said that judaism supposed teaches this as well as "philosophy". Also worth mentionibg, the rabbi also said that judaism is not as dogmatic as Islam and christianity.

Oh just read it again, and there was also a quote, God doesnt care whether you believe him or not but whether you do good.

I cud go on and on about jewry but whats the point. They are the gods chosen people, right? They can do anything with god as it pleases them.

[Copy and paste link]m.huffpost.com/us/entry/978418

And of course the jewish chosenites will tell you otherwise, they are required to lie by their rabbis. So gave that link.

But they gods chosen right, when does that god have the right to judge his chosen.

Edited by Spicen

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Got two things to say about this:

1) 50% of US jews are atheists. Rabbis encourage "questioning God from top to bottom"(quoted from a rabbi). Are you saying Jesus questioned God from top to bottom? He was of Israel but not jewish. Best thing to say is that he was Abrahimic ratger than jewish.

2) Nailed it.

 

Your problem is comparing Judaism back then Judaism now. There is no comparison. From the 2nd century (with the writing of the Oral Torah) up until the 19th century, every Jew was Orthodox, a form of the Pharisaic school of Judaism. Although Jesus didn't like them, he says listen to them and follow what they say, but not what they do (they were corrupt, according to Jesus). Secondly, this doesn't change the fact that even the most Orthodox Rabbi's still regards Jesus as a Jew. A heretic, but a Jew.

 

Thirdly, the Torah says you should know God. Even as Christians we question God on his will, his being (i.e Mysteries) and everything we can question him on. We are required to know God, so we question (maybe you don't understand the idea of religious questioning?). We have nothing we base on belief, it's all written, in both Traditions handed down, and in the Bible. To claim that Jesus wasn't Jewish is to deny that he is the Messiah, a basic tenet of Messianic Judaism, Islam, and of course, Christianity. You can't go around that.

 

Lastly, any Old Testament figure has a 99% chance of being Jewish, to the extent of what you "nailed" is something my 5 year old cousin in t3leem Mesi7i (Christian Lessons) would likewise "nail".

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You now theres a reason that Jesus called jews "the synanogue of satan." The talmud is not a present day concept. It has been present for a long time. According to your concept Muhammad(s) was a pagan since he was brought up in a pagan society. Just because he was born into a jewish society doesnt mean Jesus is jewish. The jews had by that time deviated from Abrahimic Monotheism. They took their rabbis in place of God. So no Jesus was not a jew, quite the opposite infact. Its important to realise that fact that just because Jesus or anyone is born into a particular society makes them a part of it.

Secondly in Islam we are taught to submit to Allah not question Allah in every step. Look at what you just said, this is how low youre digging yourself to defend the very people who call you goy/goyim. Iblis/satan also questioned Allah, didnt go very well for him and it wont go very well for jews in afterlife. Philosophy about the teachings of God is one thing but "questioning God from top to bottom?" Give me the name of prophet who questioned God from top to bottom. Did Ibrahim(A)/Abraham question God when he was ordered to sacrifice for God the thing which he held most dear? Your argument is flawed .

Believe me when i say i didnt even know whether he was in OT or NT. You listed a set of characteristics about Samson and i guessed that he was a jew. Infacthis behaviour is a microscopic example of the jewish people. Given chances by God over and over again, they messed up again and again. They necer showed any gratitude to God. They showed Moses the MF as soon as turned his back and brought that cow out of their bag. Allah says in Baqarah about the bounties that Allah gave to the jews. But they never settled for that. They always wanted moar. And despite all that they feel they are always tge victims, always. (Read about the Samson option) They have vowed to destroy the entire world if their zionist dream of making their earthly kingdom fails. They will destroy humanity and even then will say that they are the victims. All these traits matched with samson so i guessed that he was a jew. I know a jew when i see one. Its easy.

And you like jews so much dont you, read Dr. Israel's book.

Or heres a little excerpt from the Talmud that the jews hold so dear:(dont remember the wording 100% correctly but know the gist)

"Yeshu is being boiled in hell in hot excrement."

Yeshu, which literally means, perish his name, is a slur used for Jesus.

Hallejullah.

Conclusion:Jesus was Abrahimic not jewish in belief, case closed.

Edited by Spicen

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Jews could have been Muslims up until the time after Jesus, then it was Christians who were Muslims and then Muhammad came and that's the definition of Islam today. This is what baqar has lead me to believe, that at a point, being Jewish was being Muslim. Even our people (Arab Christians/Assyrians/Syriacs and the like) before Muhammad were considered Muslims. Therefore, Jesus was not only Jewish in faith, but also in ethnicity (meaning descended from Issac, Abraham, David, etc)

 

I agree with you on previous nations, that the people who did not deny their Prophets were Muslims as in submission to God.

 

But the distinctions-divisions were not after Jesus.

 

If it was until after Jesus, then why did Jesus bring new laws?

 

And secondly, can the people that reject a Prophet who the former Prophets foretold, be considered as followers of the (previous) Prophets?

 

The paths were seperated with the coming of the foretold-promised one. And the promised one can not be considered as same in faith with his deniers and as a part of his deniers.

 

Either you would have to say Jesus was Jewish and thus not those who have denied him. Or you would have to say Jesus was not Jewish, rather Jews are those who have denied him.

 

And an important note here, the five noble arch Prophets were universal messengers. And they can not be considered belonging to divisions. They are beyond the petty names-labels. They confirm what was revealed before and they purify the religion from innovations and perfect it with new laws. And surely they can't be labeled with the same title with those who deny them.

 

Would be good to expose which prophets bring forth sharia laws...the rest of the world is waiting.

 

Please see: Names of Ulul Azm Prophets - al-islam.org

 

Also Please:

 

 

There were five prophets who had divine books and independent teachings. They are referred to asNuh (Noah) (as), Ibrahim (Abraham) (as), Musa(Moses) (as), 'Isa (Jesus) (as), and Muhammad  (pbuh)  in the following verse:

 

"He has made plain to you of the religion what He enjoined upon Nuh and that which We have revealed to you, and that which We enjoined upon Ibrahim and Musa and 'Isa that keep to obedience and be not divided therein... (42:13)."

 

These five prophets, who have books and divine religious laws, are called the Ulul'azm Anbiya' (arch-prophets). The messengers of Allah, however, were not limited to these five prophets, rather eachummah (people) had a messenger. Many prophets were sent by Allah to lead the people, of whom only the names of less than twenty have been mentioned in the Holy Qur'an.

 

The Almighty Allah states:

 

"... There are some of them that We have mentioned to you and there are others whom We have not mentioned to you...(40:78)."

 

He also states:

 

"And every ummah had a messenger...(10:47)."

 

Allah states:

 

"...And (there is) a guide for every people (13:7)."

 

Yes, prophets, who came after each of the Ulul'azm Anbiya' invited people to follow the divine religious laws of the same prophets. Thus, prophetic mission and the call continued until Allah appointed the Prophet Muhammad (S) ibn Abdillah to bring the previous prophetic missions to perfection and to communicate the latest orders and the most complete divine religious laws. His divine book became the last book and consequently, the religion of Prophet Muhammad (S) will remain valid until Qiyamah (Resurrection) and his religious laws will remain everlasting.

 

Source: ISLAMIC TEACHINGS IN BRIEF - ALLAMA TABATABAI

 

And dear bethren, my aim in creating the thread was not such discussions.

 

Yet I made the mistake of letting and joining the discussions which derailed the aim and topic of the thread.

 

Thus, please, from now on, I hope we comment on the first post.

 

Nice euphemism, "martyrdom operations". I prefer the term suicide operation personally.

There is no such concept in Islam, since it's not in the Quran or in the teachings of the Prophet (pbuh). On the contrary, suicide is strictly prohibited, with no exceptions given. Some scholars may wish to legitimise it, but they don't decide what is and isn't part of Islam.

 

I mentioned in my first post that it is in the Holy Quran. And it is there in Islamic history also. Karbala for instance was a total martyrdom operation.

Edited by HamzaTR

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@HamzaTR- suicide under any case whatsoever is forbidden and as salamtek pointed out quite rightly that samson was an antagonistic figure

Furthermore what did he sacrifice for, the fact that he was being made fun of? Thats plain cowardice not martyrdom.

Difference between martyrdom and suicide must be understood.

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I mentioned in my first post that it is in the Holy Quran. And it is there in Islamic history also.

Please quote the verse.

Karbala for instance was a total martyrdom operation.

Imam Husayn (as) didn't kill himself, so there is no comparison with people that blow themselves up.

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Imam Husayn did rush into the thousands of enemy army himself only, didn't he? Which means he knew and meant that he is killed. Also his companions. Which is what a martyrdom operation is. Which is what Quran 100:5 describes and God is pleased with it, so much so that He wears upon it: "فوسطن به جمعا".

 

Of course, there is a difference between blowing oneself up among civilians and innocent people, with blowing oneself up amongst the rapist-occupation-enemy armies. The first is what a suicide attack is. The latter is an operation which aims to destroy the enemy army, thus is martyrdom.

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Blowing oneself is haram, sin,etc in Quran under any circumstance.

Hussain fight was the ultimate lesson to mankind, justice does not exist.

Let me try to chalk up a comparasion- when israel will destroy Al-Aqsa masjid many muslims despite knowing they will die, will give everything they can agaisnt israel befire dying. THAT is martydom. In comparasion, suicide bombing like that which happems in Baghdad regularly is not.

Intent. Thats the phenomenon which is important.

Edited by Spicen

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Imam Husayn did rush into the thousands of enemy army himself only, didn't he? Which means he knew and meant that he is killed. Also his companions. Which is what a martyrdom operation is. Which is what Quran 100:5 describes and God is pleased with it, so much so that He wears upon it: "فوسطن به جمعا".

Which tafsir claims that this ayah is talking about 'martyrdom operations'? Please quote it. 

Of course, there is a difference between blowing oneself up among civilians and innocent people, with blowing oneself up amongst the rapist-occupation-enemy armies. The first is what a suicide attack is. The latter is an operation which aims to destroy the enemy army, thus is martyrdom.

The common factor is still that you are taking your own life, which is haram. Fighting the enemy and getting killed by them is not the same as performing an act of suicide that you hope will take some enemies with you. The fact is also that Imam Husayn (as) tried to avoid fighting. He asked to be allowed to leave, but the enemy refused unless he gave bayah to Yazid. He didn't just go charging at some of the opposing soldiers in the hope of taking a few with him. You are downgrading what happened at Karbala by comparing it to so-called martyrdom operations.

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You now theres a reason that Jesus called jews "the synanogue of satan." The talmud is not a present day concept. It has been present for a long time. According to your concept Muhammad(s) was a pagan since he was brought up in a pagan society. Just because he was born into a jewish society doesnt mean Jesus is jewish. The jews had by that time deviated from Abrahimic Monotheism. They took their rabbis in place of God. So no Jesus was not a jew, quite the opposite infact. Its important to realise that fact that just because Jesus or anyone is born into a particular society makes them a part of it.

 

1) The tradition is that the oral law was brought down with Moses along with the written torah.

2) Muhammad was Hanif (monotheistic), not pagan.

3) You're right. There were gentiles, after all in the land of Israel. But he also had a brit milah, and at 12, he was obviously studying torah. How much more Jew-y can someone be?

4) and the proof you have that Abrahamic faith was deviated from is?

5) There is no such thing as taking rabbi's in place of God. That is something the Quran is disputed about (also Jews worshipping Ezra as the Son of God, etc).

6) Last statement is a weak basis.

 

 

Secondly in Islam we are taught to submit to Allah not question Allah in every step. Look at what you just said, this is how low youre digging yourself to defend the very people who call you goy/goyim. Iblis/satan also questioned Allah, didnt go very well for him and it wont go very well for jews in afterlife. Philosophy about the teachings of God is one thing but "questioning God from top to bottom?" Give me the name of prophet who questioned God from top to bottom. Did Ibrahim(A)/Abraham question God when he was ordered to sacrifice for God the thing which he held most dear? Your argument is flawed .

We don't question Allah on steps, we question him to know him better. It's not like we deny God. Goy means nation, goy haqadosh means holy nation, and is a title used for Jews: they call themselves goy, not to mention someone is cursed when they don't speak the truth. I don't know about your religion, but we're not allowed to lie for the sake of ourselves or others. Iblis never questioned God, rather, he refused to obey God: I hope you don't believe those are not the same thing. Do you question someone who doesn't exist, or exists?

 

Yes, Abraham questioned God, he said, God, if there are 10 good people in Sodom, will you keep the city, for their sake. God agrees. Not to mention when Abraham was in Iraq (modern day, but Mesopotamia) he didn't know God from an early age. He questioned what was worthy of worship, and came to a belief in an unmoved mover, and that mover is worthy of worship. Muhammad also questioned whether or not he was a prophet in Sunni Islam (these are the hadiths I found, he was about to commit suicide).

 

You want to try again?

 

 

Believe me when i say i didnt even know whether he was in OT or NT. You listed a set of characteristics about Samson and i guessed that he was a jew. Infacthis behaviour is a microscopic example of the jewish people. Given chances by God over and over again, they messed up again and again. They necer showed any gratitude to God. They showed Moses the MF as soon as turned his back and brought that cow out of their bag. Allah says in Baqarah about the bounties that Allah gave to the jews. But they never settled for that. They always wanted moar. And despite all that they feel they are always tge victims, always. (Read about the Samson option) They have vowed to destroy the entire world if their zionist dream of making their earthly kingdom fails. They will destroy humanity and even then will say that they are the victims. All these traits matched with samson so i guessed that he was a jew. I know a jew when i see one. Its easy.

Most narrators in the gospels are Jewish too, as are who they speak about, with the exception of Pontius Pilate and the Gentile woman, the Samaritan woman, etc. You still had the upper hand of guessing that from the Bible, the character would almost certainly be Jewish.

This is because the Jews are "stiff-necked", this is also another supposed reason God chose them, because they would be hard to convince, as a proof to the world of his existence.

Saudi Arabia also has a "Samson option" of sorts in the works, and although they don't speak for Shia's as a whole, far be it from any Muslim to not call them Muslim. If your concern relies in a contemporary state, they are not the only ones doing this. Who cares how you derived that he is a Jew, it just shows how deep your hatred for Jews is.

 

 

And you like jews so much dont you, read Dr. Israel's book.

Or heres a little excerpt from the Talmud that the jews hold so dear:(dont remember the wording 100% correctly but know the gist)

"Yeshu is being boiled in hell in hot excrement."

Yeshu, which literally means, perish his name, is a slur used for Jesus.

Hallejullah.

Conclusion:Jesus was Abrahimic not jewish in belief, case closed.

Go read Dr. Rowling's book.

 

No one knows which Jesus was this Jesus, not even Jews. Some of them say it could be, others say there was other Yesu's that made people worship Canaanite gods (etc), so no one can know for sure. Even the names aren't spelt correctly, ישוע Yeshoa (Jesus) does not make ישו=Yeshu. Yeshu could be anyone, there's a letter ع missing in the Talmud of Jesus' name.

You're refering to the acronym ימח שמו וזכרו. Yeshu is an acronym, but it's not an acronym that stands as Jesus' name. There's no consensus. You have no argument, case closed.

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Bro Haydar, you don't need a tafsir to deduce that. Previous verses speak of war, and even praise the sparks which the horseshoes make in the battlefield. And then the next verse speaks of one person penetrating into the enemy army and naturally sacrificing himself. I don't know how else to intepret it.

 

Also, I am not downgrading what happened in Karbala. I am only talking about one aspect of it. Of course Imam, as the shepherd of the nation did what he could do to guide them, reminded them of their promises, and avoided the battle. But, that does not change the fact that he and his companions defended themselves and sacrificed their lives one by one in the midst of enemy armies.

 

But you guys are downgrading the maryrdom operation concept by comparing it to the alleged ones which aim to take lives of innocent people in mosques (sunni&shia), shrines, churches, and everywhere.

 

Personally I don't see a problem with martyrdom operation against enemy army in certain cases.

Please see the news and the 7th post, the natural-fitrah reaction, here:

 

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235025003-iraqi-shia-turkmen-vow-death-before-isil-capture/

Edited by HamzaTR

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I agree with you on previous nations, that the people who did not deny their Prophets were Muslims as in submission to God.

That's good, and to my understanding of Islam.

 

 

But the distinctions-divisions were not after Jesus.

 

If it was until after Jesus, then why did Jesus bring new laws?

Name a new law Jesus brought. For keeping kosher, we converted, so there is no need for us to keep it. For Jews who convert to Christianity, they are required to keep every single law. For Sabbath, we are allowed to to Godly works, and Jesus quotes the Talmud on this. None of these are new laws either, they existed prior.

 

 

And secondly, can the people that reject a Prophet who the former Prophets foretold, be considered as followers of the (previous) Prophets?

Which is why I said Muslims believe that Christians were the inheritors of Islam, and then Muslims (today's meaning, after Muhammad) took the title over, only after Jews and Christians.

 

 

The paths were seperated with the coming of the foretold-promised one. And the promised one can not be considered as same in faith with his deniers and as a part of his deniers.

No matter how much I denied Saddam while he was president, did that change the fact that I was Iraqi? You can still be a part of a people if you deny their leaders. Once born with a Jewish nefesh (nefis in Arabic) you are always a Jew, even if you marry a gentile, kill someone, commit sodomy with a man, steal, cheat, or convert to Buddhism. Why would Jesus be any different in the eyes of a Jewish rabbi. Even a Jewish hieratic is still Jewish.

 

 

Either you would have to say Jesus was Jewish and thus not those who have denied him. Or you would have to say Jesus was not Jewish, rather Jews are those who have denied him.

It's not like that, thus you've provided a false dilemma.

 

 

And an important note here, the five noble arch Prophets were universal messengers. And they can not be considered belonging to divisions. They are beyond the petty names-labels. They confirm what was revealed before and they purify the religion from innovations and perfect it with new laws. And surely they can't be labeled with the same title with those who deny them.

 

In Islam 2/5 prophets are not Jewish prophets. For Christians, 1/5 are not Jewish prophets. They can labeled because 4/5 of them belonged to the same forefathers (They're Jewish by blood), and on a sidenote they are nephew's of Muhammad forefather (Yishma3el), as are Arabs the nephew's of the Jews (Yitzhak, which are Jews, of which the same covenant was carried down from Gen17:21).

Edited by salamtek

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Please no more derailing the thread. Especially with posts which mistake religion with races. I really am not interested. Bro, you can start other threads and discuss with whomever is interested, really.

 

Samson was not a good person, he disobeyed God numerous amount of times, killed people to steal from them and just generally abused what God gave him because he could. They supposedly praised and thanked their gods, mocked God (in one interpretation; they made Samson their clown, claimed that their god was greater than God), and from that Samson prayed that his life be ended. He was hearing what they were saying, and said" Let me die with the Philistines" as both revenge for his eyes, and as a way of killing those who mocked both him and his Lord.

 

None are coming to mind, but Samson went down with his captors and humiliators. Although he had many sins, God still gave him one last chance to repent.

 

@HamzaTR- [...] as salamtek pointed out quite rightly that samson was an antagonistic figure

Furthermore what did he sacrifice for, the fact that he was being made fun of? Thats plain cowardice not martyrdom.

Difference between martyrdom and suicide must be understood.

 

These two posts answered my questions. Only the below one remains. I hope you answer that too.

 

 

[...] Are there more stories like this in the Bible? Thanks.

 

 

Thank you for your understanding.

Edited by HamzaTR

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Either you would have to say Jesus was Jewish and thus not those who have denied him. Or you would have to say Jesus was not Jewish, rather Jews are those who have denied him.

This makes absolutely no sense. Why does every single Jew have to agree with each other? Nearly all of his followers in his lifetime were Jewish. He even commanded them to obey the Pharisees {the "deniers"}, because they sat on the seat of Moses (Matthew 23:2-3). Let that sink in for a minute. He was circumcised on the 8th day (Luke 2:21-24), learned from the sages at the Beit haMikdash (Luke 2:46), kept the Shabbat, read the haftarah portions, and taught in synagogues "as was his custom" (Luke 4:16-21), taught others to keep the sacrifices (Luke 5:14), wore tzitzit (Luke 8:44), encouraged others to keep the Torah (Matthew 5:17-19), taught that the Shema and V'ahavta was the most important mitzvah (Mark 12:29-31), kept Passover (Mark 14:12), kept Sukkot (John 7:2), and kept Hanukkah (John 10:22). Those are all things that people of the Jewish faith practice... he was a Jew.

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Did Spicen really just use the Ubran Dictionary to look up a Hebrew word?! :Lol: This guy is a joke. Go spew your hate somewhere else.

Edited by Netzari

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Reliable sources are not the ones you listed

You want sources? Okee-dokey.
Elad Neharoi, of Times of israel says jews control media:
theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/jews-do-control-the-media/Greater israel plan:

"Zionism, Jewish extremism and a few other nasty items making our world uninhabitable today"

This by you is a reliable source? In secondary school, we spent a whole week discerning which were good sources, and which were bad, I feel like you need that lecture badly.

The link doesn't work either, and the story isn't even on the Times of Israel. Find me the real link.

 

 

Greater israel plan:
www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

Isn't this the same place that claimed that the 2004 American elections were a fraud?  What would make you think this is reliable?

 

 


An insight into jewish society:(Disclaimer:it is reported by Haaretz)
theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2013/02/13/the-jewish-porn-star-next-door/

 

Same Website, not to mention the live link doesn't exist anymore. It could be a forgery. Not only that, but it makes some claims that are out of context.


50% jews are atheists:
davidduke.com/another-duke-podcast-today-zionism-is-simply-the-latest-expression-of-judaism/
blogs.timesofisrael.com/about-half-of-jews-are-atheists-why-it-is-so-and-why-they-are-jews/
m.huffpost.com/us/entry/978418

 

David Duke is a White Supremacist. He hates us Arabs as well.

You're also admitting  Jews are a race, because how can someone be Jewish and not believe in God, other than through birth? That's a contradiction.

 

Rabbi ovadia yosef goyim:(again goyim is a term for gentile)
www.timesofisrael.com/5-of-ovadia-yosefs-most-controversial-quotations/

 

I didn't realize you don't know what controversial means, Ovida Yusef also said the Knesset is filthy and no one should listen to them.

Of course you can say these are unreliable. I mean since when does Times of Israel or Haaretz know anything about jews, right?

Whatever i have gathered about jews it is from their book Talmud, from their Rabbis or from their political leaders. My sources are more than authentic, thet are from jews themselves.
I can bring you sources that say it's okay for a mumin to blow himself up for sebeel ilahi in the process of Jihad, or submit himself to have anal sex with a man so it stretches out and he can insert a bomb into his colon. These are from Muslims themselves. Them being Israeli is not an overarching excuse, find better sources.

 

Is there anything more you want?

For you to get a clue.

 

And Saudi arab is israel's proxy and puppet. That doesnt even warrant an argument. Thankfully, with many countries advancing in ABM, nuclear armed missiles effectiveness will be reduced and the Samson option made redundant.

 

What I wanted you to prove was this, and none of those sources do that.

Edited by salamtek

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You want sources? 

 

I am sorry to note that your attitude towards Jews seems to be extremely negative.  

 

Even if they are a bad people as you make them out to be, it is extremely undiplomatic of you to be arousing their hatred even further.

 

My own experience shows that most of the time, there are good and bad people everywhere.

 

Historical developments often pit one people against another.

 

And although I strongly disapprove of much of Israel's attitude Palestinians, you cannot improve on the matter by enraging them even further - which is what you are doing.  

 

I strongly urge you to review your approach to the matter, unless you wish to precipitate a backlash and make matters worse.  

 

Think for a moment what your attitude would have been if you were born into a Jewish family.  

Would you still condemn them?

 

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Spicen, I hate to break to you, but you won't be allowed to post racist material against any ethnic group, including Jews. If you want to give an analysis of the influence of Jewish people in certain industries, then go ahead, but do so in a rational manner without quoting from hate sites. If nothing else, you will find that you are more likely to have people listen to you if you do that.

Anyway, thread locked until the racist material is removed.

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