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Night_Inshallah

Alternatives To Hajj~~Relocating/redefining Hajj

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I was watching some videos on Hajj last night and started to become turned off on the idea of performing Hajj to Mecca for several reasons.

 

1. Cost: at $10,000 a head I'm sure this money could be used for a lot of other useful things to uplift our ummah.  And why does it cost so much? Even with the expensive packages you are still just getting the bare minimum. 

 

2. Crowds: I hate crowds. Even with the new additions made by the Saudi government, it just looks like it has gotten worse. I think it has had the opposite affect and now they are packing in more pilgrims. 

 

3. Saudi Government: I hate them. Even the leaders in my own masjid say that the Saudi government is not Islamic and are causing harm by breeding radicalism. 

 

I did some searching on ShiaChat and came across this...

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234992812-ziyarah-of-imam-al-husseinas-is-better-than-hajj/?hl=%2Bhajj

 

Then I came across this thread on another forum from 2007....

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?50680-Should-we-boycott-Hajj

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Hajj is wajib when you have money to perform it. So it is either for the rich or the people who like to hoard up wealth. So it is still useful for the Ummah as it gets people to spend.

 

Of course if you know people who have problems which can be solved by money, give your money to them, that way you won't have enough money to yourself for hajj to become obligatory.

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It is a kind of radical reform

1- what do you think is more important than Hajj to give your money? and how can you give it to the right hands?

2- lol, Crowd is one of the most interesting parts of Hajj. Don't even think about excluding this.

3-but well, you are right about Saudi regime

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I think its because the Saudi DInar has a high value ..economically speaking , that's why its expensive , but even so, i agree with you  : with the number of tourists they receive each year and the oil they have .. hajj is supposed not to cost. especially for those who had never the opportunity to go.

 

 

 


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The philosophy of Hajj is that we Muslims have difficulties. You can study the booklet, Hajj, by Dr. Ali Shariati for more info.

 

http://www.al-islam.org/hajj-pilgrimage-dr-ali-shariati

 

http://www.ziaraat.com/books/hajj_shariati.pdf

 

2) Also, back in the times of Imam, 4 million people is mentioned to have performed pilgrimage which is way more than the number today. So, it is the Saudi's limiting the area of tawaf with their buildings, and also the limit on zair numbers per countries which make it so less in crowd and room.

 

3) Saudis don't own the Holy Places. It is the house of God and the pilgrims are guests of God. They are not the guests of Saudis. Hopefully, with an open conquest, Hajj will return to its aim, to Hajj al-Akbar, where Muslims gather and discuss politics and make ultimatoms (baraah) against the enemies of Islam. (It will be opposite of today when, for example, demonstrations against Israeli crimes are forbidden in Saudi Arabia)

 

1) With such conquest, I am sure things will be arranged so you don't need that much money to perform pilgrimage.

 

Until that conquest, one needs to perform it any way they can also.

 

The example of Prophet Muhammad (s.a.a) even performing pilgrimage when Mecca was in control of polytheists and inside Kaabah was full of idols (in the peace treaty of al-Hudaibiyah), should ring a bell for anyone who has doubts about it.

 

Imam Hossein, and other Imams performing pilgrimage, and enjoying the good and forbidding the eil there, even when it was under the control of Umayyad and Abbasids should ring a bell.

 

They were all Imams of the Ummah. And we should take their actions as examples inshaAllah. I hope I make sense. ma salam

Edited by HamzaTR

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I thought it was around £3,000,the prices will only go up, it's better to go now then later in my opinion. I just hope that I can vist the place before it gets destroyed.

No one likes the saudi goverment and even the people are not that liked.

Sf taha is right,hij does become wajab if you have the money. Lol, every holy place is crowded with people.

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It is a kind of radical reform

1- what do you think is more important than Hajj to give your money? and how can you give it to the right hands?

2- lol, Crowd is one of the most interesting parts of Hajj. Don't even think about excluding this.

3-but well, you are right about Saudi regime

 

#3: Regime change won't happen anytime soon.

 

#2: I can understand it being a massive crowd but from the video and the stories I've heard, it goes beyond massive.  And why do people make Hajj repeatedly! I know an Imam that has made Hajj 3 times already and is talking about going AGAIN in 2016. I know they will only issue you a Hajj visa every 5 years. They need to limit it to 1 a lifetime.

 

#1: I believe in giving starts at home. I know sisters without food and clothing here in the USA. 

 

 

I don't know y'all.....I'm just thinking that something else can/should be done. Maybe I should stop thinking. I was talking to a potential about this and it freaked him out.  This and the fact that I'm on Shiachat.   :(

Edited by Night_Inshallah

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#1: I believe in giving starts at home. I know sisters without food and clothing here in the USA. 

 

 

It seems to me that this is much more important too.  How can we spend $10K on a single journey that is over when its over, when that could support a family for a year, clothe hundreds of people, feed people nearly 5000 meals?  Worse yet, the money funds Saudi terrorists and tyrants.

 

Maybe to people who drop tens of thousands causally this doesn't seem like a big deal, but I've lived on much less than that amount many entire years of my life.  That's an awful lot of money.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

i think you all are forgetting that the Prophet (pbuh) tried going to Hajj when the mushrikeen kuffar  were running al-Masjid al-Haram (treaty of Hudaybiyyah)....

 

Not to mention that refusing to go to Hajj when you are able to is hinted as being KUFR in the Quran...

فيهِ آياتٌ بَيِّناتٌ مَقامُ إِبراهيمَ ۖ وَمَن دَخَلَهُ كانَ آمِنًا ۗ وَلِلَّـهِ عَلَى النّاسِ حِجُّ البَيتِ مَنِ استَطاعَ إِلَيهِ سَبيلًا ۚ وَمَن كَفَرَ فَإِنَّ اللَّـهَ غَنِيٌّ عَنِ العالَمينَ

[3:97] Shakir
In it are clear signs, the standing place of Ibrahim, and whoever enters it shall be secure, and pilgrimage to the House is incumbent upon men for the sake of Allah, (upon) every one who is able to undertake the journey to it; and whoever disbelieves, then surely Allah is Self-sufficient, above any need of the worlds.

 

Please brothers and sisters we have to put politics or personal dislikes of certain other sects off to the side sometimes and put Islam first.

 

and Allah(swt) knows best

 

was salam

Edited by ImamAliLover

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I didn't think I'd ever see a thread about trying to abandon a very established pillar of Islam. 


What would you have said to Imam Zainul Abideen (as) when he walked to Hajj during the tyrannical regimes of the Ummayyads?  

 

What would you have said when Abbad al-Basri came up to him and mocked him for doing Hajj instead of performing Jihad? 

As the Imams (as) said:

From al-Kadhim (as) who said: "Hajj is the struggle (jihad) of the weak, and they are our Shi'a."

عن محمد بن موسى بن المتوكل، عن محمد بن جعفر، عن محمد بن موسى بن عمران، عن الحسن بن يزيد، عن علي بن أبي حمزة، عن أبي الحسن موسى بن جعفر (عليهما السلام) قال: الحج جهاد الضعفاء وهم شعيتنا.


From the Prophet (saww) who said: "The reward for Hajj is paradise, and the 'Umrah is an atonement for every sin."

وعنه، عن أبيه، عن النوفلي، عن السكوني، عن أبي عبد الله، عن آبائه (عليهم السلام) قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): الحجة ثوابها الجنة، والعمرة كفارة لكل ذنب.


From Isa b. Mansoor who said: Ja'far b. Muhammad (as) said to me: "O' Isa, if you can eat bread and salt and go to Hajj (with the money saved) every year, then do it. "

محمد بن الحسن بإسناده عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن محمد بن الحسن بن علان، عن عبد الله بن المغيرة، عن حماد بن طلحة، عن عيسى بن أبي منصور قال: قال لي جعفر بن محمد (عليهما السلام): يا عيسى إن استطعت أن تأكل الخبز والملح وتحج في كل سنة فافعل.



From Abi Abdillah (as) who said: "Whoever goes to Hajj 3 times will not be affected/afflicted by poverty ever."

حدثنا أبي رضي الله عنه قال حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله عن محمد بن الحسين بن أبي الخطاب عن الحجال عن صفوان بن يحيى عن صفوان بن مهران الجمال عن أبي عبد الله ع قال من حج ثلاث حجج لم يصبه فقر أبدا


From Abi Bakr al-Hadhrami who said: I said to Aba Abdillah (as): "What is (the reward for) the one who does Hajj 5 times?" He (as) said: "Whoever goes to Hajj 5 times will not be tortured by Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì ever."

وعن أبيه، عن أحمد بن إدريس، عن محمد بن أحمد بن يحيى، عن محمد بن يحيى المعاذي، عن محمد بن خالد الطيالسي، عن سيف بن عميرة، عن أبي بكر الحضرمي قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله (عليه السلام): ما لمن حج خمس حجج؟ قال: من حج خمس حجج لم يعذبه الله أبدا.


 From Abi Abdillah (as) who said: RasulAllah (saww) said: "Hajj is the struggle (jihad) of the weak". Then Abu Abdillah (as) put his hand on his chest and said: "We are the weak, we are the weak."

وعنه، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن جندب، عن أبي عبد الله (عليه السلام) قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): الحج جهاد الضعيف، ثم وضع أبو عبد الله (عليه السلام) يده في صدر نفسه وقال: نحن الضعفاء، ونحن ضعفاء


Hope it helps.

Edited by Al-Afasy

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#3: Regime change won't happen anytime soon.

 

#2: I can understand it being a massive crowd but from the video and the stories I've heard, it goes beyond massive.  And why do people make Hajj repeatedly! I know an Imam that has made Hajj 3 times already and is talking about going AGAIN in 2016. I know they will only issue you a Hajj visa every 5 years. They need to limit it to 1 a lifetime.

 

As the Holy Quran, 2:114, 48:27 and 11:81 states, the dawn is near inshaAllah.

 

And, there should be no limitations on practices of religion. People should perform pilgrimage again and again. And we should not condemn the people who want to perform it repeatedly. We should condemn those who limit the place-room with buildings and such. As I said earlier, centuries ago, more people could perform the Hajj. And it should be more crowded now. But, sadly, the Saudi changes and the buildings around, narrows the room, thus you hear people even die because of the crowd. However, had the changes-buildings not been there, there would have been more room today, no deaths and no limitations in the number of pilgrims.

 

And most importantly the limitations which Saudis place is because they want to be able to control Muslims rather than serving them. That is why they only allow around 3 million Hajis every year, half of which are Saudis themselves. Whereas just last year, during Arbaeen, 30 million people visited the shrine of Imam Hussain. So, the crowd is not a problem if the system-regime-government does not turn it into one. And Saudi regime turns it into a problem and makes it an excuse to limit the number of pilgrims. Hundred millions of Muslims should be able to perform Hajj, but they can't, no thanks to the Saudi limitations.

 

But, still, even under this limitations we need to perform this divine command. Just as in the examples from the Prophet and Imams, which brethren here shared.

 

I hope I make sense. ma salam.

Edited by HamzaTR

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I don't get this naive mindset of some people

whenever a discussion about financial matters comes up, they think the ultimate good is to feed the needy! as if there is nothing else worthy of their money

come on! Islam is much greater than a charity center

helping the poor is good but we should not mix different issues.

In fact, giving money to the needy is not the ultimate solution to the problem of poverty; as it helps the poor to be dependent on charity and not make any meaningful social contribution.

if we stop going to Hajj that shows the Saudis were successful in their plan to exclude us from Islamic nation.

there have to be a remarkable Shia presence at Hajj along with gradual opposition to the policies of Saudis.

you don't win something with running away.

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