The Succession Of Imam Ja'far As-Sadiq

[Ismailite]

Seven Proofs that Imam Isma'il ibn Ja'far was the Successor to Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq:

 

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"Our branch of Shia Islam, in that particular generation of the family, accepted the legitimacy of the eldest son, Isma‘il, as being the appointed Imam to succeed and that is why they are known as Ismailis."
(Forty-Ninth Hereditary Imam of the Shi‘i Isma‘ili Muslims)

Summary of the Seven Proofs

Below is a summary of the proofs. Please click on the proof number to jump directly to a specific proof.

Taken individually or collectively, these Seven Proofs demonstrate that the legitimate successor and true Imam after the Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq is Mawlana Isma‘il ibn Ja‘far and that the Present and Living Imam of all Shi‘i Muslims must be the direct lineal descendant of Isma‘il ibn Ja‘far. 

Proof #1: Imām Ja‘far designated Mawlānā Ismā‘īl as the next Imam by the rule of nass as per Twelver, Ismaili, Sunni and academic sources.

Proof #2: The only way to deny or negate the nass of Mawlānā Isma‘il is through contradictory hadiths presented in later Twelver hadith books.

Proof #3: Isma‘il’s death before Imam Ja‘far is not confirmed and may have been staged to protect him — as he was reportedly seen by eyewitnesses after his alleged death.

Proof #4: Even if Isma‘il had died before his father, the Imamat continued in Isma‘il’s son, Muhammad ibn Isma‘il, whom Isma‘il had appointed as his own successor.

Proof #5: Earliest Shi‘i hadiths lack the mention of Twelve Imams but instead predict exactly the first eighteen Imams in the Isma‘ili lineage of Imamat.

Proof #6: With the exception of the Nizari Ismaili Imamat, all other Shi‘i Imamat lineages have hidden Imams. This contradicts the Qur’anic definition of Imamat which requires the Imam always be present and manifest (mubin) in the world.

Proof #7: Imam Shah Karim al-Husayni Aga Khan IV is the forty-ninth hereditary Imam of Shi‘i Islam in direct, documented, lineal descent from Mawlana Isma‘il ibn Ja‘far al-Sadiq. As the only present (hadir), manifest (mubin) and living (mawjud) hereditary Imam, with a documented and validated lineage, Imam Shah Karim al-Husayni’s very existence is itself confirmation of his Imamat and that of his ancestors.

Imam Shah Karim al-Husayni Aga Khan IV visiting his Ismaili followers in Tajikistan, 2008

http://ismailignosis.com/2014/10/02/who-succeeded-imam-jafar-al-sadiq-seven-proofs-for-the-imamat-of-imam-ismail-ibn-jafar/

Edited October 3, 2014 by Ismailite

[ScottishRevert]

Is it true that Agha Khan is a racehorse owner?

[Rasul]

Proof #1: Imām Ja‘far designated Mawlānā Ismā‘īl as the next Imam by the rule of nass as per Twelver

Rijal al-Kashi: 590. Narrated to me Hamdawayh who said: narrated to me Muhammad bin Isa from Ibn Abi Umayr from Hammad bin Uthman from Ismail bin A’mir (it should be Ismail bin Jabir) who said: I entered upon Abi Abdillah عليه السلام and started naming the Imams to him until I reached him, whereupon I said: and then Ismail after you, so he عليه السلام said: as for him then NO, so I (i.e. Hammad bin Uthman the narrator from Ismail) said to him (i.e. Ismail bin Jabir): what made you say ‘and then Ismail after you’?, he (Ismail) said: (information from) al-Mufadhal bin Umar made me do so.

 

Proof #2: The only way to deny or negate the nass of Mawlānā Isma‘il is through contradictory hadiths presented in later Twelver hadith books.

Sheikh Saduq (ra) in Kamal al Deen: And among the arguments that falsify the Zaidiyyah claim is that they are under the impression that Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) issued Nass in favor of Ismail and when he (Ismail) was alive, indicate that he is Imam. Later on Ismail passed away during the lifetime of his father. So they said: The Almighty Allah did not effect change (Bada) in anything like He did regarding my son, Ismail. So if the tradition of twelve Imams had been correct, at least Ja’far bin Muhammad must have been aware of it, and he would have told his selected followers so that neither they err nor other people commit such a blunder.

In reply we asked them: On what basis do you say that Ja’far bin Muhammad had issued Nass on the Imamate of Ismail? What type of a report is it, who has narrated it and who has accepted it? They had no replies to offer.

 

Proof #5: Earliest Shi‘i hadiths lack the mention of Twelve Imams

We read in the 'Asl' of Abi Sa`eed `Ibad al-`Usfuri ibn Ya`qoob ar-Rawaajani [Died in the year 250 A.H] - `Ibad from `Umar from Abi Hamza who said: I heard `Ali ibn al-Husayn (as) saying:

"Indeed, Allah created Muhammad, ‘Ali, and eleven from his sons from the Light of His Glory. He made them shadows in the radiance of His Light, worshiping Him and Glorifying Him and Sanctifying Him before the Creation of Creation. And these were the Imams from the progeny of the Messenger of Allah."

`Ibad he raised up to Abi Ja`far (as) who said:

The Messenger of Allah (saww) said: From my sons eleven naqeebs, najeebs, muhadaths, mufahhams, the last of them is the Qa'im b'il-Haqq, he will fill the earth with justice as it had been filled with oppression.

`Ibad from `Umar ibn Thaabit from Abi Ja`far (as) from his father from his fathers, he said:

The Messenger of Allah (saww) said: "The stars in the heavens are what secure the people of the heavens; if the stars were destroyed, the people of the heavens would have to face that which they hate [i.e. apparently destruction]. And the stars from the people of my house, those Noble ones from my eleven children, they are what secure the people of the Earth, and keep it from shaking with its inhabitants. If the stars from the people of my family were destroyed, the people of the earth would have to face that which they hate."

Proof #6: With the exception of the Nizari Ismaili Imamat, all other Shi‘i Imamat lineages have hidden Imams. This contradicts the Qur’anic definition of Imamat which requires the Imam always be present and manifest (mubin) in the world.

Sheikh Al-Sadooq:

(Ibn Qubba Al-Razi answering the objections of Abi Zayd Al-Alawi): He claims that we had been telling the Waqifiya sects that Imam is only one who is present and apparent. Now this is like the statement of one who is not familiar with the statements and beliefs of his opponent. The Imamiyyah sect has always believed that an Imam is one who is either apparent or hidden. Their traditions are so famous in this regard that they are known to all. To fabricate beliefs on behalf of the opponents is something that anyone can do, but a religious and learned person cannot do this. In this regard even if we did not have any other report except the one narrated from Kumayl ibn Ziyad it would have been sufficient for us.

Note: And he (Alee (a.s)) has mentioned in the tradition of Kumayl ibn Ziyad Nakha'i: "Indeed the earth shall remain established through a Divine Proof who shall either be apparent and well known or concealed and hidden so that the proofs of Allah (swt) and His clear evidences do not become invalid."

Source: Kamaluddin Wa Tamaamun Ni'ma. Pg. # 116.

Narrated my father from Abdullah ibn Ja'far Al-Himyari from Al-Sindi ibn Muhammad from Al-Alaa ibn Razeen from Muhammad ibn Muslim from Abi Ja'far (a.s), who said: "The earth shall not remain without an apparent or a hidden Imam."

Source: Ilal Al-Sharaye. Ch. 153, Pg. # 195.

It has been narrated to us by Muhammad bin Isa, from Al-Hassan bin Mahboub, from Hashaam bin Saalim, from Aboo Is'haq Al-Hamadany, from a reliable one from his companions, who has narrated: I heard Ameer ul-Mo'mineen (a.s) say: "O Allah (swt)! You do not keep the earth empty from Your proof on Your creatures, apparent or hidden in concealment, so that Your arguments and proofs are not invalidated."

Source: Basaa'ir Al-Darajat. Pg. # 529.

[Ethics]

Mansoor bin Hazim went to see Imam Abu Abdullah Jaffar Al-Sadiq , and asked him to specify the Imam who would succeed him. ‘May my father and mother be your ransom’, said he, ‘souls shall certainly taste death. If that is to be, then who will succeed you?’  ‘This is your man’, said the Imam, pointing to Abul-Hassan Mousa Al-Kadhim. Then he placed his hand on the shoulder of his son, as a gesture of emphasis. Mousa Al-Kadhim was, at the time, five years old.’  (Al-Kulayni, Usool Al-Kafi, Vol.1, page 309)

Abd al-Ala reported on the authority of al-Fayd b. al-Mukhtar, who said: I (i.e. al-Fayd b. al-Mukhtar) said to Abu `Abd Allah Jaffar, peace be on him: "Take my hand away from the fire (of Hell). Who is (the Imam) for us after you?" Abu Ibrahim (Mousa Al- Kadhim) entered. Then Imam Jaffar Al-Sadiq said: "This is your leader. Keep close to him."  (Kitab Al-Irshad)

I (i.e. al-Mufaddal b. Umar al-Jufi) was with Abu Abd Allah Imam Jaffar AL-Sadiq, peace be on him. Abu Ibrahim Mousa Al-Kadhim, peace be on him, came in. He was still a boy. Abu Abd Allah Jaffar, peace be on him, said to him: "Indicate to those of your Companions whom you trust that the position of authority belongs to him Mousa." (Kitab Al-Irshad).
 

Zara`ra reported on the authority of Abu` Ja`far (al-Ba`qir), peace be on him, who said: "The Ima`ms are twelve. Among them al-Hasan and al-Husayn, and then the Ima`ms from al-Husayn`s children.

2. Abu` Basir reported on the authority of Ima`m Abu` Ja`far (al-Ba`qir), peace be on him, who said: "We are twelve Ima`ms.(Al-Karajiki, al-Istinsar, p. 17)

3. Abu` Basir reported that the Ima`m said: "There will be nine Ima`ms after al-Husayn. The ninth of them will be their Qa``im (i. e. , the one who will undertake the office of the Ima`mate).(Al-Khisal, p. 388)

 

Indication to and designation of al-Hasan b. `Ali

 

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن حماد بن عيسى، عن إبراهيم بن عمر اليماني وعمر بن اذينة، عن أبان، عن سليم بن قيس قال: شهدت وصية أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام حين أوصى إلى ابنه الحسن عليه السلام وأشهد على وصيته الحسين عليه السلام ومحمدا وجميع ولده ورؤساء شيعته وأهل بيته، ثم دفع إليه الكتاب والسلاح وقال لابنه الحسن عليه السلام: يا بني أمرني رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله أن اوصي إليك وأن أدفع إليك كتبي وسلاحي كما أوصى إلي رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله ودفع إلى كتبه وسلاحه، وأمرني أن آمرك إذا حضرك الموت أن تدفعها إلى أخيك الحسين عليه السلام، ثم اقبل على ابنه الحسين عليه السلام فقال، وأمرك رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله أن تدفعها إلى ابنك هذا، ثم أخذ بيد علي بن الحسين عليه السلام ثم قال لعلي بن الحسين: وأمرك رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله أن تدفعها إلى ابنك محمد بن علي واقرأه من رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله ومني السلام.

 

`Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Hamad b. `Isa from Ibrahim b. `Umar al-Yamani and `Umar b. Udhayna from Aban from Sulaym b. Qays.

He said: I witnessed the testament of Amir al-Mu’mineen عليه السلام when he gave testament to his son al-Hasan عليه السلام; and I bear witness to his testament [to] al-Husayn عليه السلام, Muhammad, all his children, and the leaders of his Shi`a and his Ahl al-Bayt. Then, he gave him the book and the armaments and said to his son al-Hasan عليه السلام: O my son, the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله ordered me to depute you and to give you my book and my armaments, just as the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله deputed me and gave me his book and his armaments. And he ordered me to command you to give them to your brother al-Husayn عليه السلام when you die. Then, he turned to his son al-Husayn عليه السلام and said: And the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله ordered you to give them to this son of yours. Then, he took `Ali b. al-Husayn عليه السلام by the hand and said to `Ali b. al-Husayn: And the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله ordered you to give them to your son Muhammad b. `Ali and to convey the salaam of the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله and myself to him. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 766)

(hasan `ala thahir) (حسن على ظاهر)

 

 

أحمد بن محمد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن سيف، عن أبي بكر، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام أن عليا صلوات الله عليه وآله حين سار إلى الكوفة، استودع ام سلمة كتبه والوصية فلما رجع الحسن دفعتها إليه ".

 

Ahmad b. Muhammad from `Ali b. al-Hakam from Sayf from Abi Bakr from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام, [who said]: When `Ali صلوات الله عليه and his family were travelling to Kufa, he delivered his book and his wasiya to Umm Salama. Then, when al-Hasan returned, she delivered them to him. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 769)

(hasan) (حسن)

 

باب الإشارة و النص على علي بن الحسين صلوات الله عليهما

Indication to and designation of `Ali b. al-Husayn

 

عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن سيف بن عميرة، عن أبي بكر الحضرمي، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: إن الحسين صلوات الله عليه لما صار إلى العراق استودع ام سلمة رضي الله عنها الكتب والوصية، فلما رجع علي بن الحسين عليه السلام دفعتها إليه. " وفي نسخة الصفواني

 

Several of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad from `Ali b. al-Hakam from Sayf b. `Umayra from Abi Bakr al-Hadrami from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.

He said: When Husayn صلوات الله عليه was travelling to Iraq, he delivered the books and the wasiya to Umm Salama رضي الله عنها. Then, when `Ali b. al-Husayn عليه السلام returned, she delivered them to him. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 778)

(hasan) (حسن)

 

 

باب الإشارة و النص على أبي عبد الله جعفر بن محمد الصادق صلوات الله عليهما

Indication to and designation of Abu `Abdillah Ja`far b. Muhammad as-Sadiq

 

محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: لما حضرت أبي عليه السلام الوفاة قال: يا جعفر اوصيك بأصحابي خيرا، قلت: جعلت فداك والله لادعنهم - والرجل منهم يكون في المصر - فلا يسأل أحدا.

 

Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from ibn Abi `Umayr from Hisham b. Salim from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.

He said: When my father عليه السلام was dying, he said: O Ja`far, I advise you to treat my companions well. I said: May I be your ransom, by Allah, I will propagate to them – and [if] a man from them were in Egypt, he will not [need to] ask anyone. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 784)

(sahih) (صحيح)

 

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن المثنى عن سدير الصيرفي قال: سمعت أبا جعفر عليه السلام يقول: إن من سعادة الرجل أن يكون له الولد، يعرف فيه شبه خلقه وخلقه وشمائله، وإني لاعرف من ابني هذا شبه خلقي وخلقي وشمائلي، يعني أبا عبد الله عليه السلام.

 

`Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from ibn Abu `Umayr from Hisham b. al-Muthana from Sadeer as-Sayrafi.

He said: I heard Abu Ja`far عليه السلام say: Verily from the joys of a man is to have for himself a son; he knows that in him is similarity in his form, his character, and his features. And I do not know anyone similar in my form, character, and features except this son – meaning Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 785)

(hasan `ala thahir) (حسن على ظاهر)

 

محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن ابن محبوب، عن هشام بن سالم، عن جابر بن يزيد الجعفي، عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: سئل عن القائم عليه السلام فضرب بيده على أبي عبد الله عليه السلام فقال: هذا والله قائم آل محمد صلى الله عليه وآله، قال عنبسة: فلما قبض أبو جعفر عليه السلام دخلت على أبي عبد الله عليه السلام فأخبرته بذلك، فقال صدق جابر، ثم قال: لعلكم ترون أن ليس كل إمام هو القائم بعد الامام الذي كان قبله.

 

Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from ibn Mahbub from Hisham b. Salim from Jabir b. Yazeed al-Ju`fi from Abu Ja`far عليه السلام. He said:

A question was asked about the Qa’im عليه السلام, so he tapped Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام with his hand. Then, he said: This, by Allah, is a Qa’im of the Family of Muhammad صلى الله عليه وآله. `

Anbasa said: So when Abu Ja`far عليه السلام had passed away, I entered upon Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام and I informed him of that. So he said: Jabir told the truth. He then said: Lest you think that every Imam [that comes] after the preceding Imam is not the Qa’im. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 789)

(sahih) (صحيح)

 

باب الإشارة و النص على أبي الحسن موسى عليه السلام‏

Indication to and designation of Abu’l Hasan Musa

 

عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن أبي أيوب الخزاز، عن ثبيت عن معاذ بن كثير، عن ابي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: قلت له: أسأل الله الذي رزق أباك منك هذه المنزلة أن يرزقك من عقبك قبل الممات مثلها، فقال: قد فعل الله ذلك قال: قلت: من هو - جعلت فداك -؟ فأشار إلى العبد الصالح وهو راقد فقال: هذا الراقد وهو غلام.

Several of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad from `Ali b. al-Hakam from Abu Ayyub al-Khazaz from Thubayt from Mu`adh b. Katheer from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.

He said: I said to him: I beseech Allah, who granted your fathers via you [being given] this position, to grant you from your descendant its like before death [should come]. So he said: Allah has done this. He said: I said: Who is he, may I be your ransom? So he pointed at the Righteous Servant while he was asleep and said: This, who is asleep. And he was a young boy. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 792)

(hasan) (حسن)

 

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي نجران، عن صفوان الجمال، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال: قال له منصور بن حازم: بأبي أنت وامي إن الانفس يغدا عليها ويراح، فإذا كان ذلك فمن؟ فقال أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: إذا كان ذلك فهو صاحبكم وضرب بيده على منكب أبي الحسن عليه السلام الايمن - في ما أعلم - وهو يومئذ خماسي وعبد الله بن جعفر جالس معنا.

`Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from ibn Abi Najran from Safwan al-Jamal from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.

He said: Mansoor b. Hazem said to him: May my father and mother be sacrificed for you; souls pass in the mornings and evenings, so if that were so [with you], then what? So Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام said: If that were so, then he is your patron. With his hand, he tapped upon the right shoulder of Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام – from what I know (i.e. from what I remember) – and at the time, he was five [years old] and `Abdillah b. Ja`far was sitting with us. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 796)

(hasan) (حسن)

 

محمد بن يحيى وأحمد بن إدريس، عن محمد بن عبد الجبار، عن الحسن بن الحسين، عن أحمد بن الحسن الميثمي، عن فيض بن المختار في حديث طويل في أمر أبي الحسن عليه السلام حتى قال له أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: هو صاحبك الذي سألت عنه، فقم إليه فأقر له بحقه، فقمت حتى قبلت رأسه ويده ودعوت الله عزوجل له، فقال أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: أما إنه لم يؤذن لنا في أول منك، قال: قلت: جعلت فداك فاخبر به أحدا؟ فقال: نعم أهلك وولدك، وكان معي أهلي وولدي ورفقائي وكان يونس بن ظبيان من رفقائي، فلما أخبرتم حمدوا الله عزوجل وقال يونس: لا والله حتى أسمع ذلك منه وكانت به عجلة، فخرج فأتبعته، فلما انتهيت إلى الباب، سمعت أبا عبد الله عليه السلام يقول له: - وقد سبقني إليه - يا يونس الامر كما قال لك فيض: قال:  فقال: سمعت وأطعت، فقال لي أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: خذه إليك يا فيض.

Muhammad b. Yahya and Ahmad b. Idris from Muhammad b. `Abd al-Jabbar from al-Hasan b. al-Husayn from Ahmad b. al-Hasan al-Maythami from Fayd b. al-Mukhtar in a lengthy hadith regarding the affair of Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام until Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام said to him: He is your patron of whom you ask, so stand for him and acknowledge his rights. So I stood up to kiss his head, his hand, and supplicated to Allah عزوجل for him. Then, Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام said: Verily, we were not permitted [to speak about him] until you. He said: I said: May I be your ransom, may I inform anyone about him? So he said: Yes, your family and your sons. And my family, my sons, and my friends were with me. And Yunus b. Thabyan was with me among my friends. So when I informed them, they praised Allah عزوجل and Yunus said: No, by Allah, [i will not believe that] until I hear it from him. And he was in a hurry, so he left and I followed him. When I reached the door, I heard Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام say to him – and I had caught up to him –: O Yunus, the affair is as Fayd has said to you. He said: So he said: I heard and I obeyed. Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام then said to me: Take him with you, O Fayd. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 799)

(muwathaq) (موثق)

 

أحمد بن إدريس، عن محمد بن عبد الجبار، عن صفوان، عن ابن مسكان عن سليمان بن خالد قال دعا أبو عبد الله عليه السلام أبا الحسن عليه السلام يوما ونحن عنده فقال لنا: عليكم بهذا، فهو والله صاحبكم بعدي.

Ahmad b. Idris from Muhammad b. `Abd al-Jabbar from Safwan from ibn Muskan from Sulayman b. Khalid.

He said: One day, Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام called for Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام and we were in his presence. So he said to us: Upon you with this one (i.e. al-Kadhim), for he is, by Allah, your patron after me. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 802)

(sahih) (صحيح)

 

باب الإشارة و النص على أبي الحسن الرضا عليه السلام‏

Indication to and designation of Abu’l Hasan ar-Rida

 

محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن ابن محبوب، عن الحسين بن نعيم الصحاف قال: كنت وأنا وهشام بن الحكم وعلي بن يقطين ببغداد، فقال علي بن يقطين: كنت عند العبد الصالح جالسا فدخل عليه ابنه علي فقال لي: يا علي بن يقطين هذا علي سيد ولدي، أما إني قد نحلته كنيتي، فضرب هشام بن الحكم براحته جبهته، ثم قال: ويحك كيف قلت؟ فقال علي بن يقطين: سمعت والله منه كما قلت، فقال هشام: أخبرك أن الامر فيه من بعده. أحمد بن مهران، عن محمد بن علي، عن الحسين بن نعيم الصحاف قال: كنت عند العبد الصالح " وفي نسخة الصفواني " قال: كنت أنا - ثم ذكر مثله.

 

Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from ibn Mahbub from al-Husayn b. Nu`aym as-Sahhaf.

He said: I, Hisham b. al-Hakam, and `Ali b. Yaqteen were in Baghdad, and `Ali b. Yaqteen said: I was sitting in the presence of the Righteous Servant and his son `Ali had entered upon him. So he told me: O `Ali b. Yaqteen, this `Ali is the master of my sons, and I have gifted him with my kunya. So Hisham b. al-Hakam struck his forehead and his palm, then said: Woe to you! How do you say [that]? So `Ali b. Yaqteen said: I heard, by Allah, from him as I said. Then Hisham said: Did he inform you that the affair is in him (i.e. ar-Rida) after him? (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 807)

(sahih) (صحيح)

 

عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن معاوية بن حكيم، عن نعيم القابوسي عن أبي الحسن عليه السلام أنه قال: إن ابني عليا أكبر ولدي وأبرهم عندي وأحبهم إلي وهو ينظر معي في الجفر ولم ينظر فيه إلا نبي أو وصي نبي

 

Several of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Mu`awiya b. Hakeem from Nu`aym al-Qabusi from Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام that he had said: My son, `Ali, is the eldest of my sons, I take him to be the most virtuous of them, and he is the most beloved of them to me. He looks into the Jafr with me, and no one looks into it except a prophet or a deputy of a prophet. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 808)

(muwathaq) (موثق)

 

عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن عبد الله بن المغيرة، عن الحسين بن المختار قال: خرج إلينا من أبي الحسن عليه السلام بالبصرة ألواح مكتوب فيها بالعرض: عهدي إلى أكبر ولدي، يعطى فلان كذا، وفلان كذا، وفلان كذا، وفلان لا يعطى حتى أجيئ أو يقضي الله عزوجل علي الموت، إن الله يفعل ما يشاء.

 

Several of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad from `Ali b. al-Hakam from `Abdillah b. al-Mughira from al-Husayn b. al-Mukhtar.

He said: In Basra, tablets came out to us from Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام, on which it was written horizontally: My instructions to the eldest of my sons is to give fulan something, and to fulan something, and to fulan nothing [should go to him] until I arrive or until Allah decrees death upon me – Allah verily does what He wills. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 808)

(muwathaq) (موثق)

 

باب الإشارة و النص على أبي جعفر الثاني

Indication to and designation of Abu Ja`far the Second

 

محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن معمر بن خلاد قال: سمعت الرضا عليه السلام وذكر شيئا فقال: ما حاجتكم إلى ذلك، هذا أبو جعفر قد أجلسته مجلسي وصيرته مكاني وقال: إنا أهل بيت يتوارث أصاغرنا عن أكابرنا القذة بالقذة.

Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Mu`ammar b. Khallad.

He said: I heard ar-Rida عليه السلام, who mentioned something, then said: You do not need that – this is Abu Ja`far, who I have sat in my seat to assume my position. And he said: We are the Ahl al-Bayt, the young from us inherit from the elder from us, step by step (i.e. of equal measure). (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 824)

(sahih) (صحيح)

 

محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن أبيه محمد بن عيسى قال: دخلت على أبي جعفر الثاني عليه السلام فناظرني في أشياء، ثم قال لي: يا أبا علي ارتفع الشك ما لابي غيري.

 

Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from his father Muhammad b. `Isa.

He said: I entered upon Abu Ja`far the Second عليه السلام and he debated with me in things; then he said to me: O Abu `Ali, uplift [your] doubt; my father had none but me. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 825)

(sahih) (صحيح)

 

محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن صفوان بن يحيى قال: قلت للرضا عليه السلام: قد كنا نسألك قبل أن يهب الله لك أبا جعفر عليه السلام فكنت تقول: يهب الله لي غلاما، فقد وهبه الله لك، فأقر عيوننا، فلا أرانا الله يومك فإن كان كون فإلى من؟ فأشار بيده إلى أبي جعفر عليه السلام وهو قائم بين يديه، فقلت: جعلت فداك هذا ابن ثلاث سنين؟! فقال: وما يضره من ذلك فقد قام عيسى عليه السلام بالحجة وهو ابن ثلاث سنين.

Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Safwan b. Yahya.

He said: I said to ar-Rida عليه السلام: We used to ask you before Allah bestowed upon you Abu Ja`far عليه السلام, and you would say, “Allah will bestow upon me a boy” and Allah has bestowed him upon you.  Our eyes have acknowledged him. May Allah spare us from seeing your day – but if that were to occur, to whom will it (i.e. the Imamate) go? So with his hand he pointed to Abu Ja`far عليه السلام while he was standing in front of him. So I said: May I be your ransom, this three-year-old son?! So he said: That would be of no harm to him, as `Isa عليه السلام rose by the proof when he was a three-year-old son. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 832)

(sahih) (صحيح)

 

باب الإشارة والنص على أبي الحسن الثالث

Indication to and designation of Abu’l Hasan the Third

 

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن إسماعيل بن مهران قال: لما خرج أبو جعفر عليه السلام من المدينة إلى بغداد في الدفعة الاولى من خرجتيه، قلت له عند خروجه: جعلت فداك إني أخاف عليك في هذا الوجه، فإلى من الامر بعدك؟ فكر بوجهه إلي ضاحكا وقال ليس الغيبة حيث ظننت في هذه السنة، فلما اخرج به الثانية إلى المعتصم صرت إليه فقلت له: جعلت فداك أنت خارج فإلى من هذا الامر من بعدك؟ فبكى حتى اخضلت لحيته، ثم التفت إلي فقال: عند هذه يخاف علي، الامر من بعدي إلى ابني علي.

`Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Isma`il b. Mehran.

He said: When Abu Ja`far عليه السلام left Medina for Baghdad the first time of his two journeys, I said to him upon his leaving: May I be your ransom, I fear for you in this condition – so to whom will the affair go to after you? Then, he turned his face to me laughing and said: The disappearance (ghayba) that you think of will not be this year. So when he left the second time to al-Mu`tasim, I went to him and said to him: May I be your ransom, you are leaving – so to whom will this affair go to after you? He wept until his beard was soaked, then he turned to me and said: This time you should fear for me – after me, the affair will go to my son `Ali. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 837)

(hasan) (حسن)

 

 

باب الإشارة و النص إلى صاحب الدار عليه السلام

Indication to and designation of the Patron of the House

 

محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن إسحاق، عن أبي هاشم الجعفري قال: قلت لابي محمد عليه السلام: جلالتك تمنعني من مسألتك، فتأذن لي أن أسألك؟ فقال: سل، قلت: يا سيدي هل لك ولد؟ فقال: نعم، فقلت: فإن بك حدث فأين أسأل عنه؟ فقال: بالمدينة.

Muhammad b. Yahya has narrated from Ahmad b. Ishaq from Abu Hashim al-Ja`fari.

He said: I said to Abu Muhammad عليه السلام: Your grace causes shyness to me to ask you questions. May I ask you a question? He said: Yes, you may ask. I said: My master, do you have a son? He said: Yes. I then said: If anything happens to you, where would I ask about him? He replied: In Medina. (al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 854)

(sahih) (صحيح)

 

 

More Hadiths on Imam Mahdi A.S: Credit Goes to Brother Qa'im https://sites.google.com/site/imamiyyashiah/hadith/qiyam

 

 

 

 

Here is the source for them: http://www.al-islam.org/mahdi/nontl/Chap-2.htm

 

(1) Tradition Narrated by Imam 'Ali about the Future Coming of the Mahdi:
 

The following tradition is related by al-Asbagh who heard 'Ali b. Abi Talib say:

There are more than fifty traditions narrated from 'Ali b. Abi Talib in connection with the future appearance of the Mahdi and his being from among the Family of the Prophet.[19]The promised Mahdi will emerge at the End of Time from among us. There is no Mahdi in any nation other than him being awaited.[18]
 

(2) Tradition Narrated by Fatima Zahra (peace be upon her):
 

Fatima Zahra told her son Husayn:

(3) Tradition Narrated by Imam Hasan b. 'Ali:

When I gave birth to you, the Prophet came to see me. He took you in his hands and said to me: "O Fatima, take your Husayn, and know that he is the father of nine Imams. From his descendants will appear righteous leaders among whom the ninth will be the Qa'im."[20]
 

Hasan b. 'Ali said:

(4) Tradition Narrated by Imam Husayn b. 'Ali:

There will be twelve Imams following the Prophet. Nine of these Imams will be from the progeny of my brother Husayn. The Mahdi of this umma will be among them. [21]
 

Husayn b. 'Ali said:

(5) Tradition Narrated by Imam 'Ali b. Husayn:

Twelve Imams will be from among us. The first among them will be 'Ali b. Abi Talib and the last will be my ninth descendant, the rightful Qa'im. Because of his blessed existence God will bring back the dead earth to life and prosperity. God will give victory to His religion over all other religions, even if this be against the liking of the disbelievers. The Mahdi will disappear from public for a while. During his occultation a number of people will abandon religion, whereas others will remain steadfast and will suffer because of their faith. This latter group will be asked tauntingly: "If your belief is true, when would your promised Imam rise?" But, remember that whoever perseveres under those unfavorable circumstances when enemies would falsify and harm them, their status will be like those who fought by the side of the Prophet in defending the religion of God.[22]
 

'Ali b. Husayn said:

(6) Tradition Narrated by Imam Muhammad Baqir:

The birth of our Qa'im will be hidden from the people in such a way that they will assert: "He has not been born at all!" The reason for his concealment is that when he begins his revolution he will have no one's allegiance on his neck.[23]
 

Muhammad b. 'Ali Baqir told Aban b. Taghlib:

(7) Tradition Narrated by Imam Ja'far Sadiq:

I solemnly declare that the Imamate is the divine covenant that has reached us from the Prophet. The Imams after the Prophet are twelve in number of whom nine are the descendants of Husayn. At the End of Time the Mahdi will also emerge from among us who will protect the religion of God.[24]
 

Ja'far b. Muhammad Sadiq said:

Someone asked him: "Among whose descendants is the Mahdi?" The Imam responded:Whoever acknowledges all the Imams, but denies the existence of the Mahdi, is like the one who acknowledges all the prophets but denies the prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him).
 

(8)Tradition Narrated by Imam Musa Kazim:

The fifth progeny of the seventh Imam [Musa Kazim] will be the Mahdi. However, he will disappear. It is not proper for you to name him.[25]
 

Yunus b. 'Abd al-Rahman asked Imam Musa b. Ja'far: "Are you the rightful Qa'im?" He replied:

He went on to add:Yes, I am the rightful Qa'im. But the Qa'im who will purify the earth from the enemies of God and will fill it with justice and equity, is my fifth descendant. Since he is afraid for his life, he will be in occultation for a long time. During this period of occultation, a group will turn away from religion. But some will remain steadfast in their faith.
 

(9) Tradition Reported by Imam 'Ali b. Musa Rida:

Blessed are those Shi'a who during this period of occultation will continue to be faithful to us and remain steadfast in their loyalty to us and their hostility toward our enemies. Truly, they are from us and we are from them. They are convinced about our Imamate and we acknowledge their fealty to us. By God, blessed are they! They will be with us in Paradise.[26]
 

Rayya b. Salt once asked Imam Rida: "Are you sahib al-'amr (Master of the Undertaking)?" The Imam said:

(10) Tradition Reported by Imam Muhammad b. 'Ali Jawad:

Yes, I am the Master of the Undertaking. However, I am not that Master of the Undertaking who will fill the earth with justice and equity. How can I be that Master of the Undertaking when you are witness to the prevalent weakness and helplessness? The promised Qa'im will be old in age but young in appearance when he emerges. He will be so powerful and strong that if he extended his hand to the most huge tree it would fall uprooted. And if he screamed among the mountains the rocks would be crushed into pieces. The rod of Moses and the seal of Solomon are with him. That person will be my fourth descendant. God will keep him in occultation for as long as He deems necessary. Then, He will cause him to appear, and through him God will fill the earth with justice and equity as it is filled with tyranny and oppression.[27]
 

Imam Muhammad Taqi Jawad told 'Abd al-'Azim Hasani:

The Imam then added: "Awaiting for the deliverance to come is the best act for our Shi'a." [28]Our Qa'im is the same as the promised Mahdi whom you should await and when he appears you should obey. He will be my third descendant. I swear by the God who sent Muhammad as the Prophet and appointed us as the Imams that even if there remains a single day on earth, God will prolong it until the Mahdi emerges and fills the earth with justice and equity as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. God takes care of His affairs overnight just as He managed the affairs of Moses in one night. Moses had gone to fetch fire for his family and he returned having been fully designated as God's prophet.
 

(11) Tradition Narrated by Imam 'Ali Naqi:
 

Imam 'Ali Naqi said: "Following me my son Hasan is the Imam, and following Hasan it will be the Qa'im who will fill the earth with justice and equity." [29]

(12) Tradition Narrated by Imam Hasan 'Askari:
 

Imam Hasan 'Askari told Musa b. Ja'far Baghdadi:

I see you disputing in the matter of the Imam after me. Be aware that anyone who acknowledges the Imams after the Prophet, but rejects the Imamate of my son is like the one who has accepted the prophethood of all the prophets except the prophethood of Muhammad. The one who denies the latter is like the one who has denied all other prophets. The reason is that obedience to the last Imam is like obedience to the first Imam among us. Hence, whoever rejects the last among us is like the one who has rejected the first Imam. Let it be known to you that the occultation of my son will be so much prolonged that people will fall in doubt except for those whose faith God protects. [30]

 

Here is a hadith from Imam Musa Al Kadim A.S naming all the imams a.s in a dua naming himself in there as well:

 

عن عبد الله بن جندب، عن موسى بن جعفر عليهما السلام أنه قال: تقول في سجدة الشكر: اللهم إني أشهدك وأشهد ملائكتك وأنبياءك ورسلك وجميع خلقك، أنك أنت الله ربي، والإسلام ديني، ومحمداً نبيي، وعلياً والحسن والحسين وعلي بن الحسين ومحمد بن علي وجعفر بن محمد وموسى بن جعفر وعلي بن موسى ومحمد بن علي وعلي بن محمد والحسن بن علي والحجة بن الحسن بن علي، أئمتي بهم أتولى ومن أعدائهم أتبرا
[...]
http://www.mezan.net...aqih-1/a49.html

'Abdullah bin Jundab, from Musa bin Ja'far (a.s), who said: 'Say (the following) in your prostration of thanksgiving: “O Allah! Indeed I call upon You as a witness and I call upon Your angels, Your Prophets and Messengers and the entirety of Your creation as a witness, that surely You O Allah are my Nourisher, that Islam is my religion, that Muhammad is my Prophet and that 'Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husayn, 'Ali bin al-Husayn, Muhammad bin 'Ali, Ja'far bin Muhmmad, Musa bin Ja'far, 'Ali bin Musa, Muhammad bin 'Ali, 'Ali bin Muhammad, al-Hasan bin 'Ali and the Hujjat, son of al-Hasan are my leaders. Them I love and obey and from their enemies I dissociate. [...]”

 

 

(wasalam)

Edited October 3, 2014 by PureEthics

[rafidhi1986]

From a non muslim perspective the amount of people claiming Imamah is overwhellming in the history of tashayyu, anyone with weak faith or has not come to the certainty of their beliefs would without doubt leave this religion. From Tusi and Mufids outlook, those ismailis are cherry-picking hadiths to support their deviance same with musawi waqifis.(golden seal, and fatiha, as well as moses hadiths). Which were greatly misunderstood but used for manipulation of the masses.

Nuwab al arbah never took anyones money for deviance unlike waqifis who bought huge estates with khumms. Ismaili leaders held on to the same concepts, and lavish offices and lifestyles.

History repeates itself always....

I sealed my fate with Tusi and Mufid. I am content with going where they go in the afterlife. They are closest to the truth

Christians have the same problem with this pragmatic manipulation:

Jim jones, David Koresh, and all those evangelist that want your money....

Edited October 4, 2014 by rafidhi1986

[Rasul]

Only one look is needed to know, that Ismaili Imam is a true Imam.  :angel: 

[Aquib Rizvi]

Proof #3: Isma‘il’s death before Imam Ja‘far is not confirmed and may have been staged to protect him — as he was reportedly seen by eyewitnesses after his alleged death.

 

 

حدثنا به أبي رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله، عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن الحسن بن سعيد، عن فضالة بن أيوب، والحسن بن علي بن فضال، عن يونس بن يعقوب، عن سعيد بن - عبد الله الأعرج قال: قال أبو عبد الله عليه السلام: لما مات إسماعيل أمرت به وهو مسجى أن يكشف عن وجهه فقبلت جبهته وذقنه ونحره، ثم أمرت به فغطي، ثم قلت: اكشفوا عنه فقبلت أيضا جبهته وذقنه ونحره، ثم أمرتهم فغطوه، ثم أمرت به فغسل ثم دخلت عليه وقد كفن فقلت: اكشفوا عن وجهه، فقبلت جبهته وذقنه ونحره و عوذته

 

Narrated to me by my father, who says: Narrated to us Saad bin Abdullah from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Isa from Hasan bin Saeed from Fuzala bin Ayyub and Hasan bin Ali Fuzzal from Yunus bin Yaqoob from Saeed bin Abdullah Al-Araaj who said:

 

Abu Abdillah Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) said: When Ismail died I ordered that the cloth should be removed from his face. Then I kissed his forehead, chin and upper breast. After that I ordered him to be covered with cloth again. Then I said: Uncover his face. And again I kissed his forehead, chin and upper breast. Then I again ordered him to be covered. Then I ordered and he was given the funeral bath. I came to his corpse when he had been shrouded and said: Uncover his face. And again I kissed his forehead, chin and upper part of breast.

 

Source:KamaaludDin by Sheikh Sadooq,Vol 1, Pg 71.

 

Grading: Shiekh Asif Muhsini said Hadeeth is Mu'tabar in his Masharat Behar al-Anwaar 2/404.

 

Sheikh Sadooq adds:

 

Another point derived from this narration is that the Imam (a.s.) said: ‘I ordered that the funeral bath be given to him’ and he did not say: ‘I gave him the funeral bath myself’. And this tradition also mentions that which disproves the Imamate of Ismail. None other than Imam can give a funeral bath to an Imam, in his presence.

[Qa'im]

Two reliable hadiths on the matter:

 

حدثنا الحسن بن أحمد بن إدريس - رضي الله عنه - قال : حدثنا أبي ، عن محمد ابن أحمد ، عن يعقوب بن يزيد ، والبرقي ، عن أحمد بن محمد بن أبي نصر ، عن حماد ، عن عبيد بن زرارة قال : ذكرت إسماعيل عند أبي عبد الله عليه السلام فقال : والله لا يشبهني ولا يشبه أحدا من آبائي

 

al-Hasan b. Ahmad b. Idris رضي الله عنه narrated. He said: My father narrated from Muhammad b. Ahmad from Ya`qub b. Yazid and al-Barqi from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Abi Nasr from Hamad from `Ubayd b. Zurara.

 

He said: I mentioned Isma`il in the presence of Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام so he said: By Allah, he does not resemble me, nor does he resemble anyone from my forefathers.

 

حدثنا محمد بن الحسن بن أحمد بن الوليد - رضي الله عنه - قال : حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله عن محمد بن عبد الجبار ، عن ابن أبي نجران ، عن الحسين بن المختار ، عن الوليد بن -صبيح قال : جاءني رجل فقال لي : تعال حتى أريك ابن الرجل قال : فذهبت معه ، قال :فجاء بي إلى قوم يشربون فيهم إسماعيل بن جعفر ، قال : فخرجت مغموما فجئت إلى الحجرفإذا إسماعيل بن جعفر متعلق بالبيت يبكي قد بل أستار الكعبة بدموعه ، قال : فخرجت أشتد فإذا إسماعيل جالس مع القوم ، فرجعت فإذا هو آخذ بأستار الكعبة قد بلها بدموعه ، قال : فذكرت ذلك لأبي عبد الله عليه السلام فقال : لقد ابتلى ابني بشيطان يتمثل في صورته .

 

Muhammad b. al-Hasan b. Ahmad b. al-Walid رضي الله عنه narrated. He said: Sa`d b. `Abdillah narrated from Muhammad b. `Abd al-Jabbar from ibn Abi Najran from al-Husayn b. al-Mukhtar from al-Walid b. Sabeeh.

 

He said: A man came to me and said to me, “Come, so I may show you the son of the man (i.e. the Imam)”. He said: So I went with him. He said: So he took me to a community that was drinking [an intoxicant], and Isma`il b. Ja`far was amongst them. He said: So I left disturbed. I then went to the [black] Stone, and Isma`il b. Ja`far was clinging onto the House, crying. The covering of the Ka`ba was wet with his tears. He said: So I left and I saw Isma`il sitting with the [same] community, so I returned [to the House] and I saw him holding onto the covering of the Ka`ba as it was wet with his tears. He said: So I mentioned that to Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام and he said: My son has been afflicted with a devil that assumes his form.*

 

* Devils cannot take the form of a prophet or Imam.

[Ismailite]

Everything you guys have mentioned proves you did not read the entire article - or the article at all.

 

The historical evidence from Twelver authors - al-Qummi and al-Nawbakhti, from Ismaili sources - Ja'far ibn Mansur al-Yaman, and even from Sunni sources show very clearly that Imam Jafar indeed designated Ismail as his successor. The academic historians like Walker, Daftary, Momen, and Sachedina ALL agree that Mawlana Isma'il was the designated successor of Imam Jafar - so are you saying these non-Ismaili historians are all colluding to fabricate this? Or perhaps they - and the other sources are correct and you guys are covering up a clear historical fact?

 

Then you have Bada narrations from Saduq which clearly confirm that Imam Ismail was given nass - why else do you need Bada narrations to argue that Allah changed His Mind and revoked the nass of Isma'il? WHen the tenth twelver Imam appointed his older son as successor, and then he died - why did the tenth Imam refer back to the case of Ismail ibn Jafar's death in order to designate al-Askari as his new successor.

 

Everything said above is present in your twelver sources - including Isma'il's designation and the various Bada narrations. How do you explain that? Do you profess the ridiculous belief that Allah did not know of Ismail's death and that this was new information made known to Allah (bada'-li Allah) as per YOUR own hadiths?

 

There is just no case for the Imamat of Kazim.  All the hadiths you quoted above are from books written after the death of the 11th Imam and the occultation of the 12th. Read Proof #5 on the website - your oldest hadith books that are written before the 12th Imam contain no mention of there being only 12 Imams. This belief is a later invention used to justify the hidden Imam.

[rafidhi1986]

Everything you guys have mentioned proves you did not read the entire article - or the article at all.

 

The historical evidence from Twelver authors - al-Qummi and al-Nawbakhti, from Ismaili sources - Ja'far ibn Mansur al-Yaman, and even from Sunni sources show very clearly that Imam Jafar indeed designated Ismail as his successor. The academic historians like Walker, Daftary, Momen, and Sachedina ALL agree that Mawlana Isma'il was the designated successor of Imam Jafar - so are you saying these non-Ismaili historians are all colluding to fabricate this? Or perhaps they - and the other sources are correct and you guys are covering up a clear historical fact?

 

Then you have Bada narrations from Saduq which clearly confirm that Imam Ismail was given nass - why else do you need Bada narrations to argue that Allah changed His Mind and revoked the nass of Isma'il? WHen the tenth twelver Imam appointed his older son as successor, and then he died - why did the tenth Imam refer back to the case of Ismail ibn Jafar's death in order to designate al-Askari as his new successor.

 

Everything said above is present in your twelver sources - including Isma'il's designation and the various Bada narrations. How do you explain that? Do you profess the ridiculous belief that Allah did not know of Ismail's death and that this was new information made known to Allah (bada'-li Allah) as per YOUR own hadiths?

 

There is just no case for the Imamat of Kazim.  All the hadiths you quoted above are from books written after the death of the 11th Imam and the occultation of the 12th. Read Proof #5 on the website - your oldest hadith books that are written before the 12th Imam contain no mention of there being only 12 Imams. This

belief is a later invention used to justify the hidden Imam.

And justin martyr, josepheus fabricated the crucifiction of jesus to support there belief as well. Come on man, anyone can come up with whatever conclusion they want based on these hadiths.

History is guess work a lot of times, and if you believe that aga khan is the best to be holding your hand on the day of judgment so be it!

To me he is nothing more than a charlatan....

[Saintly_Jinn23]

All the hadiths you quoted above are from books written after the death of the 11th Imam and the occultation of the 12th. 

 

This isn't that relevant, since it depends on the isnad, not when the compilation was written down. Also, plenty of authentic or good Sunni narrations reference "12 caliphs" after the Prophet (pbuh) from among his progeny as well.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Saintly_Jinn23

[Ali Musaaa :)]

This isn't that relevant, since it depends on the isnad, not when the compilation was written down. Also, plenty of authentic or good Sunni narrations reference "12 caliphs" after the Prophet (pbuh) from among his progeny as well.

 

Yes, though I think the point he was making is we lack pre-ghayba Ahadith mentioning 12 Imams [which isn't true, we have a number of pre-ghayba ahadith explicitly mention the number of Imams being 12] and that the Imams themselves didnt use those Sunni ahadith to substantiate their claims.  

[Saintly_Jinn23]

Yes, though I think the point he was making is we lack pre-ghayba Ahadith mentioning 12 Imams [which isn't true, we have a number of pre-ghayba ahadith explicitly mention the number of Imams being 12] and that the Imams themselves didnt use those Sunni ahadith to substantiate their claims.  

 

Which reminds me. I've got to finish Peshawar Nights.

[Qa'im]

Everything you guys have mentioned proves you did not read the entire article - or the article at all.

 

Then allow me to discuss the Twelver sources discussed in the article. The sources need to be put into context:

 

“Abū ‘Abdullāh [imām al-Ṣādiq] had ten children… Ismā‘īl was the eldest of them. Abū ‘Abdullāh [imām al-Ṣādiq] had intense love, affection, and devotion for him, and the people believed that he would be the rectifier [al-qā’im] after him, and that he would be his successor. This was because he was the eldest of the brothers, as well as his father’s intense inclination towards him, and the great nobility which his father bestowed upon him.

(Muhammad Baqir Majlisi, Bihar Al-Anwar 47:246, Shaykh al-Mufid [d. 1022], Kitāb al-Irshād, 431)

 

This, as noted in the article, is not a statement of nass. It is a statement about expectation, as some in the Imami community assumed that the Imamate would be transmitted hereditary to the eldest son. Of course, that is not the case, and the successions of Ali and al-Husayn are a testament to that.

 

After Abu ‘Abdullāh [imām al-Ṣādiq] died, some of the people believed that the Imāmah had passed to ‘Abd Allāh the son of Ja‘far, and they disagreed. And others said that it had passed to Abū’l-Ḥasan [Mūsa al-Kāẓim], and so Zurarah called for his son ‘Ubayd, and said: “O my son, the people are disagreeing about this affair. Those who are supporting ‘Abd Allāh are basing themselves on the report that says that Imāmah goes to the eldest son of the Imam. Get your riding camel and go to Madinah until you can bring me the truth about this affair.” Zurarah eventually became very ill, and when death approached he asked about ‘Ubayd. It was said to him: ‘He has not come.’ And so Zurarah called for a Qur’ān, and said: ‘O Allāh, indeed I bear witness to what has come with Your prophet Muḥammad and what You have revealed to him and made clear to us through his tongue, and I bear witness to what You have sent down in this Book. Indeed, my covenant and my religion is what my son ‘Ubayd will bring, and what You have explained in Your Book. If you will end my life before he comes, then this is my testimony and confession upon my own self concerning what ‘Ubayd, my son, will say. And You are my witness for that.’ And so Zurarah died.

Muhammad b. ‘Umar b. ‘Abd al-‘Azīz al-Kashshī [d. 978], (Rijāl al-Kashshi 154)

 

This is one account of Zurara's story. In a narration of Imam ar-Rida (as), Zurara did eventually recognize al-Kadhim (as) before the end of his life. Zurara died two years after as-Sadiq (as), but upon the passing of the latter, Zurara was ill. He was not able to investigate the affair himself. ar-Rida's hadith and al-Kashi's account are reconcilable: while there definitely was confusion after the passing of as-Sadiq, and many took up the Imamate of `Abdullah al-Aftah (and not Isma`il or his son, mind you), this did not last long. al-Aftah's knowledge was not satisfactory to the majority of the Imami community, and he died only seventy days after his father. Most Shi`is, including the Fat`his, then moved to al-Kadhim (as). I believe it is very likely that Zurara too recognized al-Kadhim by the end of his life, but even if he did not, he was an elderly, immobile man whose service to Ahl al-Bayt was coming to a close.

 

When his son Abu Ja‘far [Muhammad] died, I was beside Abu al-Hasan [Ali al-Hadi]. I was thinking that Abu Ja‘far and Abu Muhammad [Hasan al-Askari] are like Musa ibn Ja‘far and Isma‘il ibn Ja‘far in this age; their story is the same. Just when I was about to say that Abu Muhammad was expected after Abu Ja‘far, Abu al-Hasan [‘Ali al-Hadi] turned to me and said: “Yes, Abu Hashim. The unknown thing concerning Abu Muhammad [coming] after Abu Ja‘far became clear for God (badā’ li-Allāh). His situation is that of Musa, i.e. badā occurred after Isma‘il’s death. Abu Muhammad [Hasan al-‘Askari] will be my successor.

(Narrated by Abu Hashim al-Ja‘fari, quoted in al-Nawbhakti [d. 922], Firaq al-Shi‘ah, 78-79)

 

Nass is not an issue here. The reason why Isma`il was compared to the eldest son of al-Hadi (as) was because, again, the eldest son of al-Hadi was assumed to be the successor of his father. This is because narrations exist from ar-Rida (as), referring to the Imams after him, saying that the eldest son will succeed the coming Imams. So, naturally, the Imamiyya looked to al-Hadi's eldest son while al-Hadi was still alive. When this son died, he was no longer the eldest - al-`Askari (as) was. We don't believe that successors can precede the deaths of their predecessors. A successor is one who carries on the role of his predecessor after he is gone.

 

The rest of the article deals with bada', but before bada' can be discussed, the designation of Isma`il still needs to be proven.

Beyond problems of Imamate, the outer rejection of the pillars of Islam is one of the main problems we have with Isma`ilism. This is not something that even earlier Isma`ilis supported, such as Qadi Nu`man, the author of Da`a'im al-Islam. Imam as-Sadiq (as) himself rejects this heresy in the following Isma`ili narration:

 

 

وروينا عن أبي عبد الله جعفر بن محمد ص أنه كتب إلى بعض أوليائه من الدعاة وقد كتب إليه بحال قوم قبله ممن انتحل الدعوة وتعدوا الحدود واستحلوا المحارم واطرحوا الظاهرفكتب إليه أبو عبد الله جعفر بن محمد ص بعد أن وصف حال القوم وذكرت أنه بلغك أنهم يزعمون أن الصلاة والزكاة وصوم شهر رمضان والحج والعمرة والمسجد الحرام والبيت الحرام والمشاعر العظام والشهر الحرام إنما هو رجل والاغتسال من الجنابة رجل وكل فريضة فرضها الله تبارك وتعالى على عباده فهي رجل وإنهم ذكروا أن من عرف ذلك الرجل فقد اكتفى بعلمه عن ذلك من غير عمل وقد صلى وأدى الزكاة وصام وحج واعتمر واغتسل من الجنابة وتطهر وعظم حرمات الله والشهر الحرام والمسجد الحرام وإنهم زعموا أن من عرف ذلك الرجل وثبت في قلبه جاز له أن يتهاون وليس عليه أن يجهد نفسه وأن من عرف ذلك الرجل فقد قبلت منه هذه الحدود لوقتها وإن هو لم يعملها وإنه بلغك أنهم يزعمون أن الفواحش التي نهى الله عز وجل عنها الخمر والميسر والزناء والربا والميتة والدم ولحم الخنزير أشخاص وذكروا أن الله عز وجل إنما حرم من نكاح الأمهات والبنات والأخوات والعمات والخالات وما حرم على المؤمنين من النساء إنما عنى بذلك نكاح نساء النبي وما سوى ذلك مباح وبلغك أنهم يترادفون نكاح المرأة الواحدة ويتشاهدون بعضهم لبعض بالزور ويزعمون أن لهذا ظهرا وبطنا يعرفونه وأن الباطن هو الذي يطالبون به وبه أمروا وكتبت تسألني عن ذلك وعن حالهم وما يقولون فأخبرك أنه من كان يدين الله بهذه الصفة التي كتبت تسألني عنها فهو عندي مشرك بالله بين الشرك فلا يسع أحدا أن يشك فيه أ لم يسمع هؤلاء قول الله عز وجل قُلْ إِنَّما حَرَّمَ رَبِّيَ الْفَواحِشَ ما ظَهَرَ مِنْها وما بَطَنَ وقوله جل ثناؤه وذَرُوا ظاهِرَ الْإِثْمِ وباطِنَهُ فظاهر الحرام وباطنه حرام كله وظاهر الحلال وباطنه حلال كله وإنما جعل الظاهر دليلا على الباطن والباطن دليلا على الظاهر يؤكد بعضه بعضا ويشده ويقويه ويؤيده فما كان مذموما في الظاهر فباطنه مذموم وما كان ممدوحا في الظاهر فباطنه ممدوح ثم قال أبو عبد الله جعفر بن محمد ص واعلم إن هؤلاء قوم سمعوا ما لم يقفوا على حقيقته ولم يعرفوا حدوده فوضعوا حدود تلك الأشياء مقايسة برأيهم ومنتهى عقولهم ولم يضعوها على حدود ما أمروا به تكذيبا وافتراء على الله وعلى رسوله وجرأة على المعاصي ولم يبعث الله نبيا يدعو إلى معرفة ليس معها طاعة وإنما يقبل الله عز وجل العمل من العباد بالفرائض التي افترضها عليهم بعد معرفة من جاء بها من عنده ودعاهم إليه فأول ذلك معرفة من دعا إليه وهو الله الذي لا إله إلا هو وحده والإقرار بربوبيته ومعرفة الرسول الذي بلغ عنه وقبول ما جاء به ثم معرفة الوصي ع ثم معرفة الأئمة بعد الرسل الذين افترض الله طاعتهم في كل عصر وزمان على أهله والإيمان والتصديق بأول الرسل والأئمة وآخرهم ثم العمل بما افترض الله عز وجل على العباد من الطاعات ظاهرا وباطنا واجتناب ما حرم الله عز وجل عليهم ظاهره وباطنه وإنما حرم الظاهر بالباطن والباطن بالظاهر معا جميعا والأصل والفرع فباطن الحرام حرام كظاهره ولا يسع تحليل أحدهما ولا يجوز ولا يحل إباحة شي ء منه وكذلك الطاعات مفروض على العباد إقامتها ظاهرها وباطنها لا يجزى إقامة ظاهر منها دون باطن ولا باطن دون ظاهر ولا تجوز صلاة الظاهر مع ترك صلاة الباطن ولا صلاة الباطن مع ترك صلاة الظاهر وكذلك الزكاة والصوم والحج والعمرة وجميع فرائض الله التي افترضها على عباده وحرماته وشعائره

 

And we have narrated from Abu `Abdillah Ja`far b. Muhammad عليه السلام that he wrote to one of his supporters from the du`at who had written to him about the status of group before him who had impersonated the da`wat and infringed the bounds (al-hudud), permitted the prohibitions, and discarded the zhahir.

 

So Abu `Abdillah Ja`far b. Muhammad عليه السلام wrote to him after he had described the status of the group: And you have mentioned that it has reached you that they claim that salat, zakat, the fast of the month of Ramadan, hajj and `umra, the Masjid al-Haram and the Bayt al-Haram, the great rites, and the sacred month are only a man, and the ghusl from janaba is a man, and every obligation (farida) that Allah تبارك وتعالى has obligated upon His servant is a man. And that they mention that whoever recognizes that man then he is has been satisfied by his knowledge from that without an act, and that he has prayed, fulfilled the zakat, fasted, done hajj and `umra, done ghusl from janaba and purified, venerated the sanctities of Allah and the sacred month and the Masjid al-Haram. And that they claim that whoever recognizes that man and endures in his heart, it is permitted to him to disregard (the aforementioned obligations), and it is not upon him to struggle in himself. And that whoever recognizes that man then these bounds have been accepted from him for their time while he has not performed them.

 

And that it has reached you that they claim that the obscenities with Allah عز وجل has prohibited, wine, gambling, fornication, usury, carrion, blood, and the flesh of swine, are individuals. And they have mentioned that Allah عز وجل only forbade marriage to the mothers, daughters, sisters, paternal and maternal aunts and what He has forbidden to the believers of women, it is only meant by that marriage to the women of the Prophet and that what is apart from that is allowed. And it has reached you that they follow one another (in) the marriage (or, intercourse) to one woman and they testify (?) by falsehood one of them to another. And they claim that for this there is a zhahir and a batin (outside and inside, apparent and hidden, exoteric and esoteric) which they recognize, that the batin is what they demand and by which they are commanded.

 

And you have written to me asking me about that and about their status and what they say. So I have informed you that whoever professes a religion (to) Allah by this description which you have written asking me about, then according to me he is a mushrik by Allah, a clear shirk, so no one can doubt in it. Have these ones not heard the saying of Allah عز وجل “My Lord has only forbidden the obscenities, what is apparent from them and what is hidden” and His جل ثناؤه saying “Forsake the outward sin, and the inward”. So the zhahir of the haram and its batin are all haram, and the zhahir of the halal and its batin are all halal. And He has only made the zhahir an indicator upon the batin and the batin an indicator upon the zhahir. The one emphasizes upon the other, hardens it, strengthens it and supports it. So whatever is blameworthy in the zhahir then its batin is blameworthy, and whatever is praiseworthy in the zhahir then it is batin is praiseworthy.

 

Then Abu `Abdillah Ja`far b. Muhammad عليه السلام said: And know that this group heard what they had not looked closely upon its reality and had not recognized its bounds. And they placed the bounds of those things by the measure of their opinion and the limit of their intellects, and did not place it upon the bounds of what they were commanded to, in denial and slander against Allah and His Messenger, and in audacity (in acting) upon the sins. And Allah did not send a prophet calling to recognition (al-ma`rifa) without there being obedience. And Allah عز وجل only accept the act from the servant with the obligations which He has obligated upon them after the recognition of the one who brought it from Him and called them to Him. So the first of that is the recognition of the one who calls to Him, and He is Allah whom there is not god but He, He is unique, and the affirmation of His Lordship, and the recognition of the Messenger who reported about (?) from Him, and the acceptance of what he brought. Then, there is the recognition of the wasi عليه السلام, then the recognition of Imams after the Messenger whose obedience Allah has obliged in every age and time upon his people, and faith and belief in the first of the messengers and Imams, and the last of them.

 

Then, acting by what Allah عز وجل has obligated of obedience upon the servants, on the zhahir and batin (level), and the avoidance of what Allah عز وجل has forbidden upon them, its zhahir and its batin. And He has only forbidden the zhahir with (or, by) the batin and the batin with (or, by) the zhahir together, and the root and the branch. So the batin of the haram is haram like its zhahir, and no one is able to make halal either one of them. And the legalizing of anything from it is not permissible and not allowed. And likewise is the obedience that is obligated upon the servant to establish its zhahir and its batin, it does not suffice to establish a zhahir from it without a batin, nor a batin without a zhahir. And the zhahir salat is not permissible while abandoning the batin salat, nor is the batin salat (permissible) while abandoning the zhahir salat. And likewise is the zakat, the fast, the hajj and `umra, and all of the obligations of Allah that He has obligated upon His servant, and His sanctities and His rites.

 

The authenticity of this narration cannot really be disputed by Isma`ilis, because the book was compiled under the commission of the Fatimid Imam al-Mu`izz. Of course, one reconciliation of this is that the "Day of Resurrection" has already occurred at Alamut, and so therefore the observance of the shari`a was no longer necessary. That idea is simply preposterous and far, far removed from Islam.

[Ali Musaaa :)]

Which reminds me. I've got to finish Peshawar Nights.

 

Trust me, it's not really worth it :P 

[Saintly_Jinn23]

Trust me, it's not really worth it :P

 

Seems pretty good to me so far. Any reasons you say that?

[Ali Musaaa :)]

Seems pretty good to me so far. Any reasons you say that?

 

I think a good portion of it is fabricated or, at best, assuming the event [debate] did, it has been modified. 

 

Most of it reads the Sunni 'scholar' acting like: "oh, really? I didnt know that. Tell me more.."

 

The Sunni responses given are very watered down and weak. Not what you'd expect from someone whos dealt with polemics before or familar with their own sources. 

[Saintly_Jinn23]

I think a good portion of it is fabricated or, at best, assuming the event [debate] did, it has been modified. 

 

Most of it reads the Sunni 'scholar' acting like: "oh, really? I didnt know that. Tell me more.."

 

The Sunni responses given are very watered down and weak. Not what you'd expect from someone whos dealt with polemics before or familar with their own sources. 

 

 

I guess I see what you mean, I have read some arguments against the book based mostly on the events lack of historicity. And after reading some more of the book itself, there are some arguments I find lacking. I think trying to argue against Sunnism by use of their hadith is problematic itself. I think philosophical arguments hit Sunni doctrines much harder.. Citing a random hadith that can be interpreted from a Shi'ite point of view won't help much, since they'll either disregard the hadith as fabricated or weak in some way precisely because it appears to support a Shi'ite position or they will counter a Shi'ite interpretation of the hadith with some other "authentic hadith." If we are trying to argue that Shi'ism's beliefs are authentic based on Sunni hadith according to Sunni standards of authenticity, then I think unless we attack the philosophical basis of Sunni beliefs or attack the standards of authenticity themselves, there's no reason why we shouldn't accept the Sunni hadith when they contradict our point of view. I don't think such tactics help prove the Shi'ite case to Sunnis as much as give Shi'ites a greater peace of mind about their beliefs.

 

 

However, I think a book like Peshawar Nights is still good to skim through to know where Shi'ites and Sunnis differ with regards to various issues and because some references are worth exploring further.

 

Do you know of any better books than PN that put Shi'ite-Sunni disagreements into better perspective and are perhaps more trustworthy?

[Al-Hussayni]

Refuting Proof 3

 

 

 

Proof #3
Isma‘il’s death before Imam Ja‘far is not confirmed and may have been staged — to protect him — as he was reportedly seen by eyewitnesses after his alleged death

 

 

 

3A
The year and cause of Isma‘il’s death remain unknown and unverified. Many sources which claim that Isma‘il died in the lifetime of Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq also report that eyewitnesses saw Isma‘il three days later

The exact date and the circumstances of Isma‘il’s death also remain unknown. According to some Isma‘ili authors, Isma‘il survived the Imam al-Sadiq. However, the majority of sources report that he predeceased his father in Medina, and was buried in the Baqı cemetery… Many Isma‘ili and non-Isma‘ili sources repeat the story of how, before and during Isma‘il’s funeral procession, the Imam al-Sadiq made deliberate attempts to show the face of his dead son to witnesses, though some of the same sources also relate reports indicating that Isma‘il was seen in Basra soon afterwards.

Farhad Daftary, (

The Ismailis: Their History and Doctrines

, 91)

 

 

"According to some Ismaili authors. Ismail survived Imam al-Sadiq (as), However, the majority of sources report that he predeceased his father in Medina, and was buried in Baqi cemetery. Hasan b. Nuh al-Bharuchi, an Indian Ismaili author, relates visiting Ismail's grave in Medina in 904 H/1498 AD. Ismail was Popular among the radical Shias and was closely associated with them. Imam al-Sadiq (as) did not approve of these radical Shia who were leading his son astray." (Farhad Daftary, The Ismailis: Their History and Doctrines, Page 97).

 

"According to another report, Ismail was evidently involved in a militant anti-regime plot in collaboration with several others, including Basisam b. Abd Allah al-Sayrafi, another extremist Shia. This is one of the occasions reported by the Imami sources, during which al-sadiq expressed his strong disapproval of Ismail's Activities." (Page 98)

 

"Ismailis believe that Ismail was the Imam who succeeded Imam al-sadiq (as). However, it is a known fact in history that Ismail died in the year 136 AH/754 AD, whereas Imam al-sadiq (as) died in the year 148 AH/765 AD."

 

 

 

Now Farhad Daftary claims that the date of death is unknown, and yes that is somewhat true because Ismaili sources such as the Uyun al-akhbar contain very little information on him.

 

 

 

So the question to you my friend is, how can an Imam be a successor if he is already dead? It does not make sense!

 

Why would Imam As-Sadiq (as) gather all his witnesses, companions & uncover the face of Ismail so many times to the people to confirm him as dead? 

 

Would a true Imam really go to such measures just to stage his son's death and confuse the masses over the succession of the Imam (as)?

 

You are also probably aware that at the time, some of the Ismailis also accepted the death of Ismail but then claimed his eldest son, Muhammad Ibn Ismail, was the Imam after Ismail. This also doesn't make much sense because if Ismail had died during the lifetime of Imam al-sadiq (as), and hence was not an Imam, then how can his son Muhammad Ibn Ismail become an Imam?

 

 

Logically speaking, if anyone predeceases their father, then no one in their right mind would consider them a successor/heir to the father!

 

 

I also suggest you read this, which utilises many more sources than you have by only using a couple of Ismail/Sunni/Twelver historians. This goes through the early Ismailis, tracing their lineages back to the Fatimids & what they've said on the issue of Ismail's death.

 

 

Isma‘il's Death:

The Imamiyyah is unanimous in saying that Isma‘il died during the lifetime of his father. Al-Mufid has mentioned this in al-Irshad9 as have most of the historians and the biographers of Isma‘il10.

 

‘Abdu 'l-Qahir al-Baghdadi, ar- Ras‘aniyy and al-Isfarayini have written about the unanimity of the historians on the issue that Isma‘il predeceased his father11.

 

Isma‘il died at al-‘Arid, [a valley in Medina with streams and farms in it12, and he was carried on the shoulders of men to (the cemetery) of al-Baqi‘(in Medina) where he was buried.

 

When his corpse reached Medina, al-Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq (‘a.s.) shrouded him with one of his outer garments and permitted the prominent Shi‘ahs to see his face so that they may be assured of his death and not entertain any thoughts about him [as a future leader]13.

 

The number of such prominent Shi‘ahs whom the Imam (‘a.s.) used as eye-witness reached about thirty, and their names have been recorded14.

 

Even when Isma‘il's litter was brought to the cemetery of al- Baqi‘, al-Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq (‘a.s.) ordered that his litter to be put on the ground many times before he was buried, then he uncovered (Isma‘il's) face and look at it, intending to establish the fact of (Isma‘il's) death to those who had thought that he was to succeed after him, and to remove from them any mis- taken belief with regard to him (still) being alive15.

 

As an example of what al-Imam as-Sadiq (‘a.s.) did, we may quote the authentic hadith from Sa‘id ibn ‘Abdillah al-A‘raj who said, "Abu ‘Abdillah [as-Sadiq, ‘a.s.], said, 'When Isma‘il died, I ordered that his face be uncovered, while he was on his back, then I kissed his forehead, his chin and his neck. Then I ordered that (his face) be covered. Then I said, "Uncover (his face)."Again I kissed his forehead, his chin and his neck.

Then I ordered them to cover him, and ordered that he be given the ritual bath (ghusl). Then I went to him when he had been shrouded and said, "Uncover him [i.e., his face]." Then I kissed his forehead, his chin and his neck and prayed (for him). Then I said, "Wrap him in his shroud.” ‘“al-A‘raj says, "Then I asked [the Imam], 'by which did you invoke [Allah for] his protec- tion?' He answered, 'By the Qur’an, so that Allah may protect him by it from His own torment16.'

 

"It is an unanimous view that al-Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq (‘a.s.) died in the year 148/76517 , and that he was a contemporary of the first two ‘Abbasid caliphs, Abu 'l-‘Abbas as-Saffah (b. 104/722, caliphate 132/749–136/754) and Abu Ja‘far al- Mansur (b. 95/ 714, caliphate 136/754–158/775). His son Isma‘il died during his father's lifetime: so, when did he die?

 

a)Ash-Sharif al-Husayn ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Husayn Abu 'l- Qasim ibn Khida‘ al-Husayni al-Misri (b. 310/922 d. after 373/ 983), one of the famous genealogist with expertise in the genealogy of the Egypt's sadat (descendants of the Holy Prophet of Islam) and who had lived under the Fatimid rule in their capital, says: "Verily Isma‘il died in the year 133/750-751 twenty years before the death of as-Sadiq (‘a.s.)18."

 

If this is true then Isma‘il died at the beginning of the ‘Abbasid rule during as-Saffah's reign; but his death was not twenty years before that of his father as claimed by Ibn Khida‘, rather it was five years less than that. However, Abu 'l-Hasan ‘Ali ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Ali ibn as- Sufi al-‘Umari al-‘Alawi, the famous genealogist who was alive in 443/1052, quotes Ibn Khida‘ as saying that Isma‘il died in the year 138/755-75619.This coincides with the date given by al-Maqrizi, as will be explained later. Therefore, if al-Majdi's manuscript is correct and the quotation given in it, then it will be correct to say that Isma‘il died ten years before the death of his father.

B) Abu 'l-‘Abbas Ahmad ibn ‘Ali al-Maqrizi al-Husayni al-‘Ubaydi ash-Shafi‘i (766/1365–845/1441), the famous historian whose genealogy goes back to the Fatimids, say: "Surely Isma‘il ibn Ja‘far as-Sadiq died in the lifetime of his father Ja‘far in the year 138/755-756 . . .20"

 

c) Nasiru 'd-Din at-Tusi Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn al- Hasan (597/1201–672/1274), the famous scholar and philoso- pher, in his Tarikhu l-mulahidah, ‘Alau 'd-Din al-Juwayni (623/ 1226–681/1283) and Rashidu 'd-Din al-Hamadani (646/ 1248–718/1318) the famous Mongol minister – all had either accom- panied the Mongols in their attacks upon the Isma‘ili forts or were ministers of Mongol rulers and had direct access to the Isma‘ili literature which the invaders had looted – said, "Isma‘il died five years before the death of his father Ja‘far as-Sadiq (‘a.s.), in the year 145/762-763 . . .21"

 

But this date (i.e., 145 AH) precedes that of the death of as- Sadiq (‘a.s.) in three years and not five. Because of this contra- diction, historians have taken one or the other side of this state- ment. For example, Cl. Huart, while writing the entry under "Isma‘ilism" in the first edition of the Encyclopedia of Islam, says that Isma‘il died in 143/760, that is, five years before the death of his father. az-Zirkili has followed him in al-A‘lam22.

 

Whereas the Soviet orientalist, Petrochevski, editors of al- Munjid, and Dahkhuda have given Isma‘il's death year as 145AH23.

 

This latter date is also the view of Ivanow, the famous expert on Isma‘ilism while writing in the Shorter Encyclopedia of Islam (p.179), he says: "Isma‘il died a short time before the death of Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq."

 

The year 145 AH has also been mentioned in the surviving literature of the Isma‘ilis. For example, the famous critic, Muhammad Qazwini says that this date [145 AH] is also stated in Dasturu 'l-munajjimin.24

 

The same view is expressed by Arif Tamir, an Isma‘ili; even though he has contradicted himself in the appendix of al-Qaramitah (p.44) by writing Isma‘il's dates of birth and death as 101 and 159 AH respectively25.

 

Isma‘ilis have another view also. They say that the year 145 AH was the beginning of the occultation of Isma‘il, and that he died in the year 158/77526.

 

Based on these two last views, Isma‘il died during the reign of Abu Ja‘far al-Mansur.

Besides the unanimity found in the Isma‘ili sources, there is evidence in our hadith and historical sources, which suggest that Isma‘il lived till the reign of al-Mansur. See what Rizam ibn Muslim has narrated that Isma‘il was with his father al- Imam as-Sadiq (‘a.s.) in Hirah, Iraq, during the caliphate of al- Mansur;27 and somewhat similar narration by Abu Khadijah from a man from Kindah who was an executioner for al-Mansur;28 and what Bakr ibn Abi Bakr al-Hadrami has narrated about the misfortune that has afflicted his father during the time of Isma‘il's illness and eventual death29.

 

Based on these evidences, we cannot accept the first date of Isma‘il's death (133 AH) as given by Ibn Khida‘even though many scholars have relied on him. We are, therefore, left with the second (138 AH) and the third (145 AH) dates which place Isma‘il's death during al-Mansur's reign. Abu Ja‘far at-Tabari has provided for us evidence, which gives credence to the third date.

 

He narrates from ‘Umar ibn Shabbah from his narrators that Muhammad and Ibrahim, sons of ‘Abdullah ibn al-Hasan, got together with their followers in Mecca during the time of their concealment, and devised a plan to assassinate the Caliph al- Mansur in the hajj of the year 144/762. (Obviously, the hajj is performed during the last month of the lunar Arabic calendar.) One of the military leaders of al-Mansur entered their gathering ". . . then Isma‘il ibn Ja‘far ibn Muhammad al-A‘raj protested to Abu Ja‘far [al-Mansur] who informed him of their plan. He then sent for the leader [of the conspirators] but did not succeed in arresting him; instead a group of his companions were arrested while the leader disappeared . . 30."

 

All this ambiguity about Isma‘il's year of death brings us to a problem for which I have yet to see a proper explanation covering all its angles. Isma‘il did not live a short life, probably forty years or more (104/723–145/762); and a major part of his life coincided with significant events during which a revolution removed the Umayyids from power and sat the ‘Abbasids onto the seat of caliphate.

The caliphate, during its early days, wit- nessed quite a few political movements many of which ended in bloody revolts led by sectarian groups seeking political ends or by political groups using sectarian guise.

 

The most significant of these revolts were led by the Hasanids (the cousins of Isma‘il descending from al-Imam al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali, ‘a.s.) from the days of the Umayyids and reached its peak in the year 145/762 against al-Mansur in Medina the city where Isma‘il lived and Basrah.

 

Why did not Isma‘il have any significant role in these events? This phenomenon has led Khayru’d-Din az-Zirkili to make the following comment on Isma‘il: "There is nothing in our available historical sources to suggest that he was of any significance during his lifetime31."

 

Could the reason for this be that Isma‘il was associated to an extremely secret underground movement and had failed in lead- ing it to a political success? Or was it that when his underground political movement failed (like that of Abu 'l-Khattab and his companions in Kufah, as we shall discuss below), Isma‘il adopted an entirely negative and reclusive attitude towards political activism, parties and events?

 

There is another problematic phenomenon related to the death of Isma‘il itself: When al-Mansur came to power, he changed the ‘Abbasid government's policy towards the ‘Alids from what it was during his predecessor, as-Saffah. The latter was lenient and tolerant towards the ‘Alids, while the former was bent upon keeping them under surveillance, closely monitoring their activities and movements, appointing spies over them and penetrating their ranks with informers.

Al-Mansur even ordered his governors to follow the same policy towards the ‘Alids, and if he found them to be incapable of following his policy or sensed lukewarm response towards it, he would not hesitate to replace them with others who were willing to follow his whims and desires. In the Hasanid revolt, especially in the events preceding it, we see sufficient evidence to prove the change in the policy of the ‘Abbasids towards the ‘Alids.

 

The stance of al-Mansur towards the al-Imam as-Sadiq is a sufficient evidence to prove what we have said32.

 

Soon after assuming the caliphate, al-Mansur targeted the Imam: "He ordered that the Imam be brought from Medina to Basrah, addressed him rudely, mistreated him and even accused him of organizing a revolt against the ‘Abbasid government33.

 

"History and its custodians followed the official policy of al- Mansur in the sense that historians started to give importance to the ‘Alids by recording their activities and events related to them unlike the days of as-Saffah when historians chose to ignore them. Therefore, if the death of Isma‘il occurred during the reign of al-Mansur, then the historians would have recorded it, especially so when we see the extraordinary steps taken by al- Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq to publicize his death (by showing the face to the people and also recording it in writing with the governor of Medina). This would have been more likely also because of the year in which he died 145/762, the year of the famous revolt of the Hasanids against al-Mansur.

 

So, how can it be correct to accept that an event like the death of Isma‘il – with all its extraordinary circumstances related to his death – takes place in the city of revolt (Medina) and the year of revolt (145 AH) but stays unnoticed and unreported by the officials, the spies and the informers, and consequently be overlooked by the historians also?

 

Isma‘il's "Imamate": Isma‘il's name is connected with a famous sect of the Shi‘ahs that relates itself to him and calls itself as "Isma‘iliyyah", and claims imamate for him. It is obvious that the position of imamate which they ascribe to Isma‘il cannot be the actual imamate as long as his father, the actual Imam, was alive because the imamate could not be transferred from his father to himself except if the father dies or is removed from the position of imamate.

 

But Allah does not bestow imamate, being a divine position, to someone who will cease to deserve it at a later time. Neither can two persons, in view of those who see imamate as a divine position, claim to hold actual imamate at the same time. In light of the above, the only plausible explanation for the Isma‘iliyyah belief vis-à-vis Isma‘il and imamate is that Isma‘il had been appointed as the imam-designate to succeed the previous imam; however, as long as the previous imam was alive, he could be considered as an imam-designate only. Or, in terminology of usulu 'l-fiqh, we may express their view by saying that Isma‘il was designated (ja‘l) as an imam but the actualization (fi‘liyyah) of that appointment would happen only after his father's death.

 

So, when the Isma‘ilis claim imamate for Isma‘il in the life time of his father, they cannot claim the actual imamate for him unless they believe that al-Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq (‘a.s.) was removed from the position of imamate since that is the only case in which the imamate could transfer from the father to the son while the former was still living.

 

The Isma‘ilis accept the imamate of al-Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq (‘a.s.) for as long as he was alive; but they were compelled to believe in a form of imamate for Isma‘il so that they may consider him as the legitimate link through whom the imamate transferred to his children with the exclusion of his brother al-Imam al-Kazim and his descendants (‘a.s.). This was a necessary link to authenticate the imamate of Isma‘ili imams including the Fatimid caliphs who ruled North- West Africa and then Egypt from 297/910 to 567/1171.

Source: http://www.al-islam.org/introduction-kitab-al-irshad-muhammad-rida-jafari/shiah-sects#ismailiyyah

 

I suggest you read the whole article above in the link to understand from a variety of sources and not just merely a few.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Hussainiyat Zindabad

[Al-Hussayni]

 

Then you have Bada narrations from Saduq which clearly confirm that Imam Ismail was given nass - why else do you need Bada narrations to argue that Allah changed His Mind and revoked the nass of Isma'il? WHen the tenth twelver Imam appointed his older son as successor, and then he died - why did the tenth Imam refer back to the case of Ismail ibn Jafar's death in order to designate al-Askari as his new successor.

 

 

 

Everything said above is present in your twelver sources - including Isma'il's designation and the various Bada narrations. How do you explain that? Do you profess the ridiculous belief that Allah did not know of Ismail's death and that this was new information made known to Allah (bada'-li Allah) as per YOUR own hadiths?

 

The Concept of al-Bada’ and Isma‘il: As for the concept of al-bada’ and Isma‘il, I do not want to discuss here about al- bada’ and its meaning or the various views on it and the correct one. Here I just intend to touch upon the issue of al-bada’ in relation to Isma‘il.What is found in the Isma‘ili literature about al-bada’ has, toa greater extent, no significant religious value for us.

 

Our ash- Shaykhu 's-Saduq (r.a.), has pointed it out when he discusses al- bada’ in at-Tawhid (p.336) and says: "As for the saying of al- Imam as-Sadiq, peace be upon him, in which he said, 'Allah has not manifested any matter like what manifested from His [decision] concerning my son Isma‘il.'90 The Imam meant that nothing manifested itself from the will of Allah concerning any affair, as it manifested concerning my son Isma‘il when He took him away before me, so that it may be known that he was not the Imam after me.

 

However, this hadith has been narrated to me through Abu 'l-Husayn al-Asadi (may Allah be pleased with him) and it contains a strange thing:

 

He narrates that al-Imam as-Sadiq (‘a.s.) said, 'No bada’ o ccurred for Allah the way it occurred for Him in case of my [fore-]father Isma‘il when He ordered his father Ibrahim to sacrifice him but then replaced it with a greater sacrifice [Qur’an, 37:101-7].'" As for both versions of this hadith, I have my own view, yet I have quoted them to show the meaning of al-bada’.

 

Ash-Shaykhu 's-Saduq says that the hadith has come in different styles with a variety of meanings; that each word carries a different meaning from the other, and that neither versions of the hadith is correct.

 

This is how al-Majlisi has understood as- Saduq's conclusion in al-Bihar, vol.4, p.10991.The opinion of as-Saduq (r.a.), regarding the hadith of al-bada’ in relation to Isma‘il may be summarized as follows:

 

a) The hadith of al-bada’ is not authentic, therefore it would be incorrect to rely upon it as a religious proof.

B) The hadith has been narrated in conflicting forms: One version talks about al-bada’ in case of Isma‘il ibn Ja‘far, while the other version talks about al-bada’ in case of the Prophet Isma‘il ibn Ibrahim (‘a.s.), the fore-father of as-Sadiq (‘a.s.).

 

c) The word used for Isma‘il son of as-Sadiq (‘a.s.) is not the meaning of al-bada’ commonly used; its correct interpretation is attributable to Allah, the Praised. The meaning of al-bada’ in this hadith merely means that Allah, the Praised, manifested the error of the people (in their judgment) and their ignorance con- cerning destiny and death, and what Allah, the Praised, had decreed.

There were some who thought that the next imam after as-Sadiq (‘a.s.) would be his son Isma‘il. They erroneously relied on appearance of things not facts like Isma‘il being the eldest son of his father, and that he would live after his father and become the next imam, etc. as mentioned by al-Mufid (r.a.), in al-Irshad.

 

But when Allah caused him to die before his father, the erroneousness of their conjectures became manifest to such people, they realized that they did not have the knowledge of the future and what has been hidden from them except when Allah Himself manifests it to them. By Isma‘il's premature death, Allah manifested to them that He had not chosen him as an imam; otherwise, He would not have caused him to die before his father.

 

Sheikh al-mufeed on bada:

 

"As for the narration from Abu ‘Abdillah [as-Sadiq] (‘a.s.), in which he said, 'No change (bada’) occurred for Allah in any- thing as it occurred in case of Isma‘il,' that also means other than what the Isma‘iliyyah say about the bada’ in imamate. The correct meaning of this statement can be found in what has been nar- rated from Abu ‘Abdillah (‘a.s.) where he says, 'The Almighty Allah had twice decreed death by murder for my son Isma‘il. So I prayed to Him for him, and He prevented it from him.

 

No change occurred for Him in anything as it occurred for Him in case of Isma‘il.' The change mentioned here is regarding the death by murder, which was decreed for him, but was later removed by the prayer of as-Sadiq (‘a.s.). As for the imamate, Allah cannot be associated with change in that matter; this is the unanimous view of the Imamiyyah jurists who even have a hadith on this matter from the Imams themselves.

 

The hadith says, 'If any change were to occur in Allah's decision, it could not happen in dismissing a prophet from prophethood or dismissing an imam from imamate or dismissing a believer from whom He has taken a commitment of faith from his faith.' Now that the issue on this hadith is also clear, it is proven that their claim for Isma‘il's designation on its basis is also groundless.

 

"As for those who believe in the imamate of Muhammad ibn Isma‘il based on his father's designation for him, [i say that] this is a contradictory view and an erroneous opinion. One who accepts that Isma‘il's imamate has not been proven during the lifetime of as-Sadiq (‘a.s.) since it is impossible to have two imams after the Prophet (s.‘a.w.a.) at one time, he cannot accept the imamate of Muhammad because it will be based on designa- tion by a non-imam [since his father, Isma‘il, whom they claim to have been nominated (as an Imam), was not Imam himself]. Therefore, such a view is null and void by logical perception."

 

"As for those who claim that Abu ‘Abdillah [as-Sadiq] (‘a.s.), himself designated Muhammad ibn Isma‘il after the death of the latter's father, they do not have even a single report to support their view; they just say so on basis of an invalid presumption. They believe that as-Sadiq had designated his son Isma‘il, and that justice demands that after the latter's death, the designation should occur for his son because he is the closest of all people to him. Since we have explained the erroneousness of their opinion about designation having occurred for Isma‘il, the foundation of their argument becomes invalid.

 

Even if their claim about Abu ‘Abdillah (‘a.s.) designating his son Isma‘il is proven, still their view on the designation of Muhammad ibn Isma‘il would not be correct. [Their view on Muhammad's desig- nation is based on the idea that imamate is transferred from father to son because he inherits him, and not to his brothers.] Because imamate and designation are not inheritable issues like inheritance of an estate; if it were so, then [all] the children of the [deceased] Imam would inherit equally. But since imamate is not inheritable, rather it is for a person who possesses certain qualities and whose imamate fulfills a purpose. So this view is also proven to be invalid."

 

There is just no case for the Imamat of Kazim.  All the hadiths you quoted above are from books written after the death of the 11th Imam and the occultation of the 12th. Read Proof #5 on the website - your oldest hadith books that are written before the 12th Imam contain no mention of there being only 12 Imams. This belief is a later invention used to justify the hidden Imam.

 

 

 

This is an utter and blatant lie. You may refer to this article which highlights the concept of twelve Imams well established in the most earliest of Shi'a sources:

 

http://www.revisitingthesalaf.org/2014/12/imam-al-mahdi-ajf-part-iii.html

Edited February 7, 2015 by Hussainiyat Zindabad

[Sea Ocean]

I keep telling myself to learn about Ismaeli Shiaism but I never seem to get round it. Thanks for posting. I hope to learn more in future.

[Al-Hussayni]

Could we refute/answer more claims within the article inshallah? I'll try & do some more soon.

[Al-Hussayni]

@Ismailite

Could you provide us with reliable ahadith on Ismail's supposed nass? With their chain of narrators & original Arabic please? What historians tell us is not a hujja(proof) upon us, but rather the clear established riwayat of the ma'sumeen(as).

You give us western historians..well you should know that the genealogists & historians living during the time of the fatimid caliphs attested to ismails death:

A) Ash-Sharif al-Husayn ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Husayn Abu 'l- Qasim ibn Khida‘ al-Husayni al-Misri (b. 310/922 d. after 373/ 983), one of the famous genealogist with expertise in the genealogy of the Egypt's sadat (descendants of the Holy Prophet of Islam) and who had lived under the Fatimid rule in their capital, says: "Verily Isma‘il died in the year 133/750-751 twenty years before the death of as-Sadiq (‘a.s.)

b) Abu 'l-‘Abbas Ahmad ibn ‘Ali al-Maqrizi al-Husayni al-‘Ubaydi ash-Shafi‘i (766/1365–845/1441), the famous historian whose genealogy goes back to the Fatimids, say: "Surely Isma‘il ibn Ja‘far as-Sadiq died in the lifetime of his father Ja‘far in the year 138/755-756 . . .20"

c) Nasiru 'd-Din at-Tusi Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn al- Hasan (597/1201–672/1274), the famous scholar and philoso- pher, in his Tarikhu l-mulahidah, ‘Alau 'd-Din al-Juwayni (623/ 1226–681/1283) and Rashidu 'd-Din al-Hamadani (646/ 1248–718/1318) the famous Mongol minister – all had either accom- panied the Mongols in their attacks upon the Isma‘ili forts or were ministers of Mongol rulers and had direct access to the Isma‘ili literature which the invaders had looted – said, "Isma‘il died five years before the death of his father Ja‘far as-Sadiq (‘a.s.), in the year 145/762-763"

So since the death has been affirmed BOTH by the riwayat & earliest historians from the fatimids, how can Ismail be an Imam as he technically never succeeded his father?

Why would Allah(swt) bestow a divine position upon who would cease to deserve it later on because he died during the actual living imam?

Notice also from the ahadith that it doesn't mention at all that ismail came back to life again after his own father ensurede many times that Ismail was dead so the people wouldn't take him as an Imam.

Also can you provide us any examples that ismail actually assumed the role of imamate? Giving the followers guidance etc. where are the beautiful ahadith of Ismail or indeed from any of the fatimid so-called 'Imams'?

All these need answers to before moving on to the other many flaws of The Ismaili aqeeda. The ismailis, both agha khanis & bohras have completely deviated in this regard.

(wasalam)

Edited May 6, 2015 by Hussainiyat Zindabad