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Ali-F

Do You Shake Hands? What Would You Reply?

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Salam

 

In my school, in the West, not giving a handshake is actually not polite... So, today I was asked "Do you shake hands" and you know I don't want to answer this, because I could go through fitnah and severer problems.. But alhamdullah, I managed to not answer..

 

 

But if I get through a situation, where I MUST have to answer (like when many people insist), what should I reply? Can I use tagiyah, to not put me down in a hard position etc... Which could be very hard to handle.

 

 

Please help :)

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Man up bro! As far as I know, Taqiyya is when one hides something because their life is in danger. Don't misuse and abuse Taqiyya bro.

Tell them the truth. Tell them that I can't shake hands with the opposite gender unless they are my wife, or family members. 

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If you just want and don't need the job, go ahead and avoid the handshake and give a polite explanation. If your life and your family's lives depend on you working, don't take unnecessary chances, but do explain later, after you have the job, that you can't shake hands. Your colleagues will work with you to minimize awkward situations.

And under what circumstances would a person shake hands with his or her spouse? That seems silly to me.

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I think you should keep up escaping from real answer. and If you respond them with Tagiyah they will come back and try to check if your idea is upon your behavior or not. for instance you will get through a managed situation in way you face with the opposite sex and you must shake hand. other-vice your Taqiyah will lead to a new problem as lying.


If you just want and don't need the job, go ahead and avoid the handshake and give a polite explanation. If your life and your family's lives depend on you working, don't take unnecessary chances, but do explain later, after you have the job, that you can't shake hands. Your colleagues will work with you to minimize awkward situations.

And under what circumstances would a person shake hands with his or her spouse? That seems silly to me.

sorry I did not understand. what seems silly to you!!??

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As for an answer when asked directly "do you shake hands?" I would say "touching the opposite sex who are not my family is against my religion, but so is having bad manners."

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Say "out of respect for women's dignity, my religion does not allow me to shake your hand" - this will leave them happy and flattered, you will be promoting Islam and you will be making them happy too.

I'll be honest. I converted to Islam a long time ago but still remember being non-Muslim. I would not have found that statement flattering in a professional setting. I would have found it odd, even perhaps eccentric.

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Salam

 

In my school, in the West, not giving a handshake is actually not polite... So, today I was asked "Do you shake hands" and you know I don't want to answer this, because I could go through fitnah and severer problems.. But alhamdullah, I managed to not answer..

 

 

But if I get through a situation, where I MUST have to answer (like when many people insist), what should I reply? Can I use tagiyah, to not put me down in a hard position etc... Which could be very hard to handle.

 

 

Please help :)

 

(salam) brother

 

Here's the answer to your question.

 

A British man came to a Sheikh and asked: "Why is it not permissible in Islam for women to shake hands with a man? The Sheikh said: "Can you shake hands with Queen Elizabeth?"

The man said: "Of course not, there are only certain people who can shake hands with Queen Elizabeth".

Sheikh replied: "Our women are queens and queens do not shake hands with strange men".

Then the man asked the Sheikh: "Why do your girls cover up their body and hair?"

The Sheikh smiled and got two sweets, he opened the first one and kept the other one closed. He threw them both on the dusty floor and asked the man: "If I ask you to take one of the sweets which one will you choose?

The man replied: "The covered one"

The Sheikh said: "That’s how we treat and see our woman..."

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Well.. many answers are like flattered.. I don't why I should stand..

 

Well.. i shouldnt us taqiyah - i think, and i could be very polite and say the very truth... inshallah!! (i just started school so i wont create problems )

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I'll be honest. I converted to Islam a long time ago but still remember being non-Muslim. I would not have found that statement flattering in a professional setting. I would have found it odd, even perhaps eccentric.

Ali F is a young man below the age of 20 and unmarried, at his age, touching women is very harmful, I know this because I am also close to his age and I have shook hands with women before  :shaytan: . So as you can imagine, it feels nice touching the smooth hand of a girl. The touch is nice but it is Haram and harmful. So please ppl stop telling him to go against his religion. 

 

I only avoid touching the hands of young girls, older women who I am not attracted to have no effect.

 

When a young girl puts her hand forward, I just simply bow my head a little and hold my hand on my chest and smile, they do like it btw.

 

Ali F please do what I told you, lower your head a little smile and say "out of respect for women's dignity, I am not allowed to touch you" - this is the best you can do, especially at your age, will make you seem like a gentleman and noble.

Edited by SF Taha

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I do. However, it all depends who reaches first. If they reach out, then I reach in. However, when hands on their chest, the I do the same. I find shaking hands is better than hugging. Hugging seems to be acceptable as well and not a sexual thing.

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I have declined hand shakes from males for the last 5 years (since wearing hijab). Recently however I have begun to shake hands purely to put people at ease. Tensions between muslims and non-muslims in my area are rising and I found that I was causing a lot of offence but knocking back friendly handshakes (its a cultural display of mutual respect in australia)! 

For those who want to avoid it, its very simple. Put your hand on your heart, tell them its a pleasure to meet them but you dont shake hands. did this exact routine 100s of times. 


Say "out of respect for women's dignity, my religion does not allow me to shake your hand" - this will leave them happy and flattered, you will be promoting Islam and you will be making them happy too.

MashAllah this is a lovely way for a man to approach the situation. 

 

Edited by Django

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So please ppl stop telling him to go against his religion. 

 

 

I didn't tell him to go against his religion.  I just told him my opinion of that particular statement - that it comes across as odd and eccentric.  Maybe in a social setting or a more casual work environment it might be appropriate, but in an environment where suits and ties are worn, it sounds inappropriately "romantic".

 

Didn't you read my first post?  I said use your judgement, don't let your family starve, offer a polite explanation.  Just not (in my opinion) this one.

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I didn't tell him to go against his religion.  I just told him my opinion of that particular statement - that it comes across as odd and eccentric.  Maybe in a social setting or a more casual work environment it might be appropriate, but in an environment where suits and ties are worn, it sounds inappropriately "romantic".

 

Didn't you read my first post?  I said use your judgement, don't let your family starve, offer a polite explanation.  Just not (in my opinion) this one.

Ali F wouldn't get his family starved, he is a kid at school with problems 

problem one:

overly friendly

problem 2:

overly pacific

problem three

like, islam and muslims are not new phenomena to world anymore, everyone now knows we are weird so there is no point in telling the truth that in islam it is forbidden for men to shake hands of women (non relatives) but some muslims do and i do belong to …. group

 

actually it is good practice for him to start declining hand shakes in school, because if he didn't decline them in school then where he will?

Edited by Chaotic Muslem

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Salaamun Alaykum brother Ali

Shlonuk, shlon al saha ya habibi :). Siyarlee hwaya min hichayt wayak :P

 

Firstly, I'd advise you to not listen to some advice here telling you to shake hands- it is haram, unless you are in extreme difficulty not usually tolerable by normal people [that is something for you to decide if it applies to you or not tho]. The Quran says:

 

And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance." If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper.

 

2_120.png

Surah baqarah 120

 

We could probably get into all sorts of discussions about this issue and the ayah. I'm not sure I can help you about this, but really, your reply isn't really that important in the grand scheme of things- just do what you think is best in that situation, [e.g. a job interview you might reply slightly differently to a randomer] but make sure you don't avoid one sin via another sin! Just tell the person the truth- you can't, because it's haram. That's it. If you lie, not only is it haram, but think for a minute about all the trouble you could get yourself into!

 

The reason a lot of people are maybe going against Islamic rules on this issue is because they see the effects of not following it- i.e. maybe they want others to view them positively.

 

But why not think like a shrewd businessman?! 

 

The benefits of shaking hands are as follows: making a woman who you have just met, probably will speak to them never again, think of you as not being strange. Maybe you might get a slight pay rise so that you can buy a better car, which won't make you satisfied anyway [think how many rich people commit suicide] and drive around in it for at most the 100 or so years you'd live. Then you'd die, and you wouldn't take any of this with you. All you'll have is your deeds to be of benefit, if inshAllah, the good outweighed the bad and you implemented taqwa correctly [please dear brother- read the link FULLY that I post at the end].

 

In contrast, think about the benefits of not shaking hands. Well, for a start, you would get such immense rewards from Allah, that you could never imagine them. Just think like this- Allah's rewards are infinitely better than this world- they are of two different dimensions. If one were to earn every single thing in the whole cosmos as rewards it could never match one 'alhamdullilah' with a slight amount of concentration in terms of the rewards of the akhira. Also, shaking hands is a great insult to Allah. Think, would you ever say to your parents in their faces :'you told me not to do this, and you warned me of punishing me for doing it, but I'm still going to do it while you watch me'? It baffles me how we can do this everyday in Allah's face, because he's everywhere- 'He is the first, the last, the inner the outer' ; 'wherever you turn, there is the face of Allah' are two Quran ayahs.

 

The reason we might not follow Allah's command is because we have such a love for the benefits of doing this sin. The way to taqwa and avoiding sins is to go against one's desire in these matters. Then, we will see how easy it is to obey Allah's command. After we reject a handshake once, we will realise how stupid we were and how easy it is to observe taqwa. 

 

Think about this example- a child gets bullied at school, and they never tell their parents because they are scared, until one day, and they tell their parents. The parent solves the issue. So this child, was a bit scared that their parents would judge him, but as soon as it is all solved, they realise how silly they were, and they regret not telling the parents, and so in future, it becomes much easier to do so.

 

Lastly, one of the greater sins is to regard 'small' ones as small. They're not. Every single one of them has such an immense effect on our soul, but we don't realise [think about that above example]- but when we realise, it could be too late.

 

Sorry Ali-f hajjina, I got a bit carried away lol.

 

p.s. Homework, due in tomorrow morning- read chapter 1 of forty hadiths : http://www.al-islam.org/forty-hadith-an-exposition-second-edition-imam-khomeini/first-hadith-jihad-self

 

 

Just shake the hand. It won't kill you. I've tried it and I was totally okay afterwards. Even lived to tell the tale. Like right now.

 

Dear brother- please don't promote people to do haram actions on an Islamic forum- it's not the right place for it.

 

 

 

Wasalam guys

Edited by h_al_s

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Salaamun Alaykum brother Ali

Shlonuk, shlon al saha ya habibi :). Siyarlee hwaya min hichayt wayak :P

 

Firstly, I'd advise you to not listen to some advice here telling you to shake hands- it is haram, unless you are in extreme difficulty not usually tolerable by normal people [that is something for you to decide if it applies to you or not tho]. The Quran says:

 

And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance." If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper.

 

2_120.png

Surah baqarah 120

 

We could probably get into all sorts of discussions about this issue and the ayah. I'm not sure I can help you about this, but really, your reply isn't really that important in the grand scheme of things- just do what you think is best in that situation, [e.g. a job interview you might reply slightly differently to a randomer] but make sure you don't avoid one sin via another sin! Just tell the person the truth- you can't, because it's haram. That's it. If you lie, not only is it haram, but think for a minute about all the trouble you could get yourself into!

 

The reason a lot of people are maybe going against Islamic rules on this issue is because they see the effects of not following it- i.e. maybe they want others to view them positively.

 

But why not think like a shrewd businessman?! 

 

The benefits of shaking hands are as follows: making a woman who you have just met, probably will speak to them never again, think of you as not being strange. Maybe you might get a slight pay rise so that you can buy a better car, which won't make you satisfied anyway [think how many rich people commit suicide] and drive around in it for at most the 100 or so years you'd live. Then you'd die, and you wouldn't take any of this with you. All you'll have is your deeds to be of benefit, if inshAllah, the good outweighed the bad and you implemented taqwa correctly [please dear brother- read the link FULLY that I post at the end].

 

In contrast, think about the benefits of not shaking hands. Well, for a start, you would get such immense rewards from Allah, that you could never imagine them. Just think like this- Allah's rewards are infinitely better than this world- they are of two different dimensions. If one were to earn every single thing in the whole cosmos as rewards it could never match one 'alhamdullilah' with a slight amount of concentration in terms of the rewards of the akhira. Also, shaking hands is a great insult to Allah. Think, would you ever say to your parents in their faces :'you told me not to do this, and you warned me of punishing me for doing it, but I'm still going to do it while you watch me'? It baffles me how we can do this everyday in Allah's face, because he's everywhere- 'He is the first, the last, the inner the outer' ; 'wherever you turn, there is the face of Allah' are two Quran ayahs.

 

The reason we might not follow Allah's command is because we have such a love for the benefits of doing this sin. The way to taqwa and avoiding sins is to go against one's desire in these matters. Then, we will see how easy it is to obey Allah's command. After we reject a handshake once, we will realise how stupid we were and how easy it is to observe taqwa. 

 

Think about this example- a child gets bullied at school, and they never tell their parents because they are scared, until one day, and they tell their parents. The parent solves the issue. So this child, was a bit scared that their parents would judge him, but as soon as it is all solved, they realise how silly they were, and they regret not telling the parents, and so in future, it becomes much easier to do so.

 

Lastly, one of the greater sins is to regard 'small' ones as small. They're not. Every single one of them has such an immense effect on our soul, but we don't realise [think about that above example]- but when we realise, it could be too late.

 

Sorry Ali-f hajjina, I got a bit carried away lol.

 

p.s. Homework, due in tomorrow morning- read chapter 1 of forty hadiths : http://www.al-islam.org/forty-hadith-an-exposition-second-edition-imam-khomeini/first-hadith-jihad-self

 

 

 

Dear brother- please don't promote people to do haram actions on an Islamic forum- it's not the right place for it.

 

 

 

Wasalam guys

 

 

saaalam wb. bro h_al_s, good to see you again :D

 

thanks for your reply. Well, indeed, Islam forbids handshaking, but I find it hard to explain or to reject the handshake.. it''s very difficult.. indeed, may Allah (swt) be with us all!

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So as you can imagine, it feels nice touching the smooth hand of a girl. HAHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAAHAHAH!! so open and naive. cute.

The pangs of young teens. I feel for you bro, that's why you need to do some hard labour work, to make your hands rough like the ground, that way you will never feel anything. Alternatively hit the gym, without gym gloves, and get some blisters like a boss!.

 

 

or

 

Alternatively, say, I don't shake hands with ugly girls ( its a joke ), you see, because if you say that - you are woman, two things could occur, one, she thinks you are superior, two, you are attracted to them.

 

Ohh and be careful of women, once they find out you have to keep your distance from them, watch the manipulations taking place.

 

The ladies could share some light on to this.

Edited by D3v1L

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The pangs of young teens. I feel for you bro, that's why you need to do some hard labour work, to make your hands rough like the ground, that way you will never feel anything. Alternatively hit the gym, without gym gloves, and get some blisters like a boss!.

I want to keep my hands silky smooth. Why would I want rough hands. Lol, Imagine in the future when I get married, rough hands will tear her skin, smooth will make her happy.

Edited by SF Taha

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After the fight, when they are trying to make up, they can shake hands, and smile.

:donno:

I can think of more "familiar" ways to make up.

In my culture handshakes are mostly reserved for two situations: meeting someone new who you want to impress, and business meeting greetings. It just seems very distant and reserved to me for a married couple to shake hands.

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:donno:

I can think of more "familiar" ways to make up.

In my culture handshakes are mostly reserved for two situations: meeting someone new who you want to impress, and business meeting greetings. It just seems very distant and reserved to me for a married couple to shake hands.

 

I see.

 

In our culture it is considered a sign of friendship: best chums when they meet, if don't hug, at least shake hands, affectionately, exaggeratedly sometimes. And if they don't, it is considered a sign of distance/reserve in friendship.

 

When husbands or wives comes home after a sojourn, say a business trip, before they could be private, a common publicly acceptable form of greeting is the shaking of hands that go with a smile.

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^ Ah, I understand now. Among close friends and family in American culture (or at least the subculture I know,) a hug is a more typical friendly and familiar greeting, and is perfectly acceptable in public.

Of course that would be a loose hug without body contact, with or without the "man hug" pat on the back.

Edited by notme

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^ Ah, I understand now. Among close friends and family in American culture (or at least the subculture I know,) a hug is a more typical friendly and familiar greeting, and is perfectly acceptable in public.

Of course that would be a loose hug without body contact, with or without the "man hug" pat on the back.

 

Yeah I know; for all the times my female classmates/colleagues slid up my shoulder, a whisper of a sidelong hug - for greeting only.

 

After few initial flush faces, typical of a young Muslim male, I managed to get along with it fine.

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Salam

 

In my school, in the West, not giving a handshake is actually not polite... So, today I was asked "Do you shake hands" and you know I don't want to answer this, because I could go through fitnah and severer problems.. But alhamdullah, I managed to not answer..

 

 

But if I get through a situation, where I MUST have to answer (like when many people insist), what should I reply? Can I use tagiyah, to not put me down in a hard position etc... Which could be very hard to handle.

 

 

Please help :)

 

walaikumsalam wa rahmatullah,

 

I understand your situation very well. I ALWAYS face this, and each scenario requires a different response. Allah will help you, should you try. Trust me. Please be open and say politely my religion doesn't allow any form or physical touch to the opposite gender. It is a way of keeping a polite limit between two genders and a respect (in your case) of women. Secondly, if we do shake hands, it can lead to perhaps friend/people thinking you can hug, be very free etc which is also not allowed. Also, the physical touch contains alot of feelings which is good to avoid. So it focuses on the root of the issue. It doesn't intend to be rude to anyone's culture. Then explain Hijab, it is modesty and a respect for women and the not allowed of having girlfriends for the same reason.

 

I will now explain what you could do in various situations;

 

1.) If there are alot of people around you, someone wants to shake your hand, You can know sometime, put something in your hand very quickly. and just say hi.

 

2.) sometimes, if you don't have anything, politely say, I'm sorry, I cannot shake your hand as it is against my religion. I do not mean to be rude against your culture.

 

3.) sometimes, people come up to their friends say hi, shake hands etc. You can say hi and wave instead of shaking their hand. 

 

These are from my own experiences. Once, I got  new job. The manager came and shook everyone's hand one by one. He came to me, I quickly put the shoebox (we all had to wear safety shoes and had the box with us) in my right hand and just waved with my left lol. He just did a little wave back. Later in the year, he promoted me to a supervisor position. He liked my work and said Hi 5! I just laughed it off and said I can't do that lol. He said next time I'm going to have to hug you. I said, noo, I mean I actually can't as it is against my religion. (obviously my hijab helped) then I said remember that day? I put the shoebox in my hand? I didn't want to embarass you but also couldn't shake your hand. He was veryy happy and thanked me for it. He was also happy he learnt a new thing. 

 

Another time, a guy came up to me and said I respect you and put his hand out. I was wearing gloves at the time. LOL I kept them on and shook his hand. He looked a little embarassed. Later he said, You are not allowed to touch us are you? I said nope lol. 

 

Once, the manager's manager came and put his hand out. I was like agh, I hid my hand in my sleeve and he shook that instead. He did realise and (my manager said sorry he should have thought to tell him!) phew alhumdulillah. 

 

Once, at college, I was about to receive a certificate, I sent a polite message to the office saying to tell the guy I can't shake his hand as I didn't want to be rude on stage. It would embarrass him in front of over a hundred people. so when I went he gave me the certificate and just bowed at me lol. 

 

Another time, my sister introduced me to a uni classmate. He put his hand out, I said I'm sorry I cannot shake your hand, it is against my religion. He was like ohh, I'm sorry. I didn't have to be rude to him. 

 

Once, I shook a woman's hand, and this guy came up to me to shake it too. I said sorry, I cannot shake your hand, it s religion etc. I realised next time, if there is one women and one man, I will not shake the woman's hand. Simply because the man won't know it and will also put his hand out.

 

It will be harder for me aswell as I will be working as a social worker in the human services. I will come across many many people who may want to shake hands. I will have to deal with it. It is Allah's grace that he helped me to deal with these issue. It isn't easy living in a non-muslim country.

 

Allah has gave us a mind, resources and akhlaq. We can use them to refrain from haraam, fear him and teach people about our religion. Allah should always come first in every scenario.

 

To everyone who is promoting this, It doesn't MATTER situation anyone is in, most western countries have a freedom of speech law. You can always politely say It is not allowed in my religion or wave or do something else as mentioned above. Why would you shake their hands to make people happy yet Allah angry? Do you think Allah didn't know about these situations? You can't justify haraam just to suit the situation. What if that handshake leads to a hug? They need to know that we have a limited approach to the oppositve gender. They CAN'T know unless you practice it. Everyone can be explained in a nice way, you have to have the strength to fear Allah in this approach. Allah always helps you and will protect you. 

 

Prophet Muhammed saww has said, "The fornication of the lips is the kiss of a non mahram, the fornications of the hands is the touch of a non mahram, whether the genitals affirm it or not" So it definately isn't a thing to take lightly seeing that it has been related to the major sin of fornication. Astaghfirullah.

 

I hope this helps,

 

Wasalam

Edited by 786repenting

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I'll be honest. I converted to Islam a long time ago but still remember being non-Muslim. I would not have found that statement flattering in a professional setting. I would have found it odd, even perhaps eccentric.

I've spoken with a lot of non-Muslims, and I would agree with this.  I think as Muslims we sometimes think it's a very noble thing to say we're not shaking a woman's hand because we respect her dignity, but they don't see it like that.  They see it as you just not wanting to touch them, probably because your religion sees women as inferior to men.

 

I'll be honest, I'll shake a woman's hand if she extends it.  Sometimes I'll extend my hand before they get the chance to try and initiate a hug.  I do tell people that I'm just not a hugging person, and they see that as ok because hugging is getting into someone's personal space, and not everyone likes someone else in their personal space.  I usually don't bring up that it's against my religion unless I know the person, or think they're receptive to being educated a bit.

 

I'm not telling you to shake hands or not, but I'll say that you need to strike a balance in your life in order to be a functional member of society.  In my opinion, worrying about lowering your gaze is harder than anything else, especially in the summer time in the south.

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Bismillah.

 

Salaam.

 

People in west are so understanding; there is freedom of speech and faith in west; as they practice their own religion and explain it to you, you have to do the same with a nice polite manner. In such situations, just explain for them your religious duties and they will accept it positively.

 

Whenever I was in the same situation I've done this and it works and they accepted easily and even it can be a beginning step for them to ask you about your religion which is a good opportunity for you to explain Islam for them.

 

With Duas.

 

Narsis.

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Salaam, 

Don't shake the hands of those for whom it would be haraam. Allah comes first. If Allah wants you to have a job, there is no one who will stop you from what HE had ordained. Personally, I am in the accounting field, and when interviewing and meeting women from big firms, I tell them that I would love to shake their hand, but I cannot because of faith reasons. Alhamdulillah, they will more often than not understand you, BUT try your best to follow-up the slightly awkward moment with a genuine question. This part, I feel is crucial to a good meeting. You want to ask them their name, right after that awkward moment, and tell them that it is REALLY nice to meet them, and make sure you have a genuine smile to match. I find that makes it a bit easier to handle. This is the time that you want to show that you are not weird. Haha...and it is interesting. Alhamdulillah, now when I meet those same women, they know that I do not shake hands, and they still seem to like me for who I am. A wise person understands that it takes guts to go against the grain. Some people will come to respect that about you. The key is to always be a good person. If they showed signs of not liking you, then make them forget why they felt that way. I am not saying it is easy. You have to struggle to do the right thing, else no one would be doing haraam. If you want the easy way out, you can shake their hand, but it may give you a guilty conscience, knowing that you did haraam. 

 

After the initial refused handshake, just be yourself, and showcase your intellect and manners. Oftentimes, they will respect you if you respect yourself, because remember, especially if it is a career you are pursuing, these people are educated, and in the business sector, diversity is heavily advocated. In this day and age, as a manager or senior employee, you are willing to go out of comfort zones to cater to the needs of others. Now, if they do not want to understand your differences, and if they do not show respect, which should rarely be the case, you probably would not want to work for them anyway. Keep in mind that you are also interviewing your interviewer, and trying to see if that is the place you would want to work. 

I hope this helps, in shaa'llah. 

Edited by NaveenHussain

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For me handshakes happen way to fast. Before I can think, all I see is my hand is out shaking the guys hand. I guess it's human reaction,am not sure how much it will take me before I complitly refuse a handshake. But I have made it clear that I can not hug,drink,date because it's against my religion.

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Didn't the prophet shake women's hands after wrapping a cloth around his own hand?  I seem to recall someone telling me that.

 

Also, in the West, given the stereotype about Muslim men, I can guarantee you that in a business setting refusing to shake a woman's hand will not be good for business in most cases.  Maybe if that woman is cultured, or has Muslim friends, it might go ok, but otherwise it will be viewed as an insult.  This is after speaking with people with first hand experience - both Muslims and non-Muslims.

Edited by coldcow

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