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Khalilallah

Did You Brothers Know?

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Did you know that one of your rights on parents is to get you married when you reach puberty, I also just heard it recently. 

 

Firstly, Is this true?

 

Secondly, what if your parents don't fulfil this right, even if you ask them to get you married?

 

Thirdly, if it is true, I have a father who is saying that I don't have enough money to sustain a wife because of this he rejected my requests and made fun of me, repeatedly. :cry: For not being able to be rich and a full time student :wacko: , bear in mind I have £9,000 a year, don't know if it is enough.

 

Can someone post a sahih hadith along with the address, which shows that I have a right onto him which he is obliged to fulfil.

 

And there is an Ayat which tells us not to worry about money and get married, could you also post the address and the Ayat.

 

I am looking to argue about this and use those 2 things. 

 

Now please help me here, I have gone so far as to tell my father that "when we are hungry, we need food, there is no room for patience or arguing, marriage is similar" He gets what I am implying by that, but still he said no and made fun of me. 

 

Look at how hard and scary what I have been doing is, and look at how I got a response. I have to first face all criticisms, then ask for a wife, then be made fun of for not being successful and rich because I missed an employment opportunity a few years back which would have made me £7000 richer. 

 

There are parents who force their sons to marry.

 

As a reply he also said "If I get you married, then you can't sustain a wife, and I won't sustain your wife then it will be a blow to my reputation".

 

Any ideas? other than the above plan to argue, because when I talk with him, it is like I am talking to a wall and I am starting to think that he has never heard of masturbation in his life, I can not indicate to him any clearer.

 

Thanks.

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dude if u dont have the money dont get married becuz then we all r gonna be paying for your expenses through welfaere. wait till u get a job and can support yourself and a family.

I am sorry but you seem to be holding me quite tightly because you pay tax to a government, I wasn't even thinking of welfare or this country or anyone's money. I can feed my own wife!

 

your comment is contradictory to the Qur'an, wait till someone posts the Ayat.

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How are you going to support her if you don't have a job? I know Allah (SWT) is the One who sustains, but be realistic. At least get yourself on the bottom rung of your career!

 

Anyways, what father is going to let you have his precious daughter if you don't have a job? 

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How are you going to support her if you don't have a job? I know Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is the One who sustains, but be realistic. At least get yourself on the bottom rung of your career!

Anyways, what father is going to let you have his precious daughter if you don't have a job?

Social security income? :D Hey I've seen it done.

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He's a student though.

He just needs to make up a disability and the government will keep sending him income checks. It works. He would have to leave school though, or maybe not? Idk. But people do live on it lol.

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I am sorry but you seem to be holding me quite tightly because you pay tax to a government, I wasn't even thinking of welfare or this country or anyone's money. I can feed my own wife!

 

your comment is contradictory to the Qur'an, wait till someone posts the Ayat.

 

u cant with the salary u posted above. or if u do then we will be paying for your rent. either way we will be paying for your expenses becuz u cant raise a family on 9000 a year.

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It would be more appropriate to ask him, what solution you can take in order for you to make sustenance and be a student at the same time. Do not be hasty.  Fathers know it, but use such terms as money, immaturity to negate their own fears or push the subject under the carpet.

 

وَأَنْكِحُوا الْأَيَامَىٰ مِنْكُمْ وَالصَّالِحِينَ مِنْ عِبَادِكُمْ وَإِمَائِكُمْ ۚ إِنْ يَكُونُوا فُقَرَاءَ يُغْنِهِمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ{32}
 

[Pickthal 24:32] And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid-servants. If they be poor, Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware.

 

[Yusufali 24:32] Marry those among you who are single, or the virtuous ones among yourselves, male or female: if they are in poverty, Allah will give them means out of His grace: for Allah encompasseth all, and he knoweth all thing

 

وَلْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذِينَ لَا يَجِدُونَ نِكَاحًا حَتَّىٰ يُغْنِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ ۗ وَالَّذِينَ يَبْتَغُونَ الْكِتَابَ مِمَّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ فَكَاتِبُوهُمْ إِنْ عَلِمْتُمْ فِيهِمْ خَيْرًا ۖ وَآتُوهُمْ مِنْ مَالِ اللَّهِ الَّذِي آتَاكُمْ ۚ وَلَا تُكْرِهُوا فَتَيَاتِكُمْ عَلَى الْبِغَاءِ إِنْ أَرَدْنَ تَحَصُّنًا لِتَبْتَغُوا عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا ۚ وَمَنْ يُكْرِهْهُنَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ مِنْ بَعْدِ إِكْرَاهِهِنَّ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ {33}
 

[Pickthal 24:33] And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to [Edited Out]dom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful.

 

[Yusufali 24:33] Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them)

Edited by D3v1L

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Mhm, still constrained by your dad(2nd to Allah) and Islam(Allah).

 

Are you seriously that in need of a woman that you need your father to choose you one?

 

In any case, situations such as this expose the ancient core of middle eastern culture. Dealing with troglodyte parents who demand high-paying jobs and a house for their daughter, while you need to keep yourself pure in every possible way until you are 22+. It's really laughable that anyone even accepts this state of affairs these days. But that is the hold an ideology which promises eternal punishment can have on people.

Edited by EthidiumIodide

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How are you going to support her if you don't have a job? I know Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is the One who sustains, but be realistic. At least get yourself on the bottom rung of your career!

 

Anyways, what father is going to let you have his precious daughter if you don't have a job? 

I am asking if my parents are obliged, according to Islam, to support her until I become independent. If I have a right on them to get me married, then doesn't that include the upkeep?

Edited by SF Taha

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How are you going to support her if you don't have a job? I know Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is the One who sustains, but be realistic. At least get yourself on the bottom rung of your career!

 

Anyways, what father is going to let you have his precious daughter if you don't have a job? 

“Marry off those who are single among you and the upright among your male slaves and your female slaves. If they are poor, Allah will enrich them out of His grace, and Allah is all-bounteous, all-knowing” (24:32)

 

Are you saying that that Ayat is away from reality, separate?  or do you think the Ayat is about reality?

 

If Allah says he will enrich me when I marry, what reason can you bring against this?

Edited by SF Taha

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“Marry off those who are single among you and the upright among your male slaves and your female slaves. If they are poor, Allah will enrich them out of His grace, and Allah is all-bounteous, all-knowing” (24:32)

 

Are you saying that that Ayat is away from reality, separate?  or do you think the Ayat is about reality?

 

If Allah says he will enrich me when I marry, what reason can you bring against this?

I am asking if my parents are obliged, according to Islam, to support her until I become independent. If I have a right on them to get me married, then doesn't that include the upkeep?

 

You're missing the point. I'm not saying you have to be wealthy, but you need to at least have a job. 

 

And where did you get the idea that your parents are obliged to support you and your wife from?

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You're missing the point. I'm not saying you have to be wealthy, but you need to at least have a job. 

 

And where did you get the idea that your parents are obliged to support you and your wife from?

Well, I was told that children have 3 rights over parents, 1.good name 2.education 3. Marriage when I reach puberty.

 

Well I won't have a job for another 10 years. I will be studying university for 2 years, then I will go to Qom and study there for as long as possible, I am aiming for 30. So I won't have a job until I am over 30, maybe. I will be studying in Qom, I don't know if the money I receive will be enough. Although I will have a degree and find a job in Iran once I learn farsi in Qom. but this will be many many years before I have a job and be able to sustain a family, at least 5 years.

 

So aren't my parents supposed to get me married and help? or at least, according to the Qur'an god will enrich me once I am married, god knows how.

Edited by SF Taha

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I am asking if my parents are obliged, according to Islam, to support her until I become independent. If I have a right on them to get me married, then doesn't that include the upkeep?

 

No, you are obligated to support your wife, even if it means working while you are a student, even if it means giving up your studies.  Your parents are not obligated to support your wife - they aren't even obligated to support you if you are adult.

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It's one thing to demand that your son-in-law be rich and it is quite another to demand that he simply has a source of income.

 

The latter is a perfectly reasonable expectation for any father to have.

 

Or no, is it more "religious" to be completely heedless and let your daughter starve?

No, I didnt say he should give his daughter to a man that will make her starve...

There are fathers that accepte a man that earns less then the norm, I wasnt saying he should rush off and give her to a man that can not provide the basics. Sometimes the girls family support the guy,but the guy has to be worth it for all that to happen...

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“Marry off those who are single among you and the upright among your male slaves and your female slaves. If they are poor, Allah will enrich them out of His grace, and Allah is all-bounteous, all-knowing” (24:32)

 

Are you saying that that Ayat is away from reality, separate?  or do you think the Ayat is about reality?

 

If Allah says he will enrich me when I marry, what reason can you bring against this?

 

the reason that i will be paying for you since u wont have a job that covers your expenses. seriously to make your point u r bring a verse that talks about marrying female and male slaves?

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Well, I was told that children have 3 rights over parents, 1.good name 2.education 3. Marriage when I reach puberty.

 

Well I won't have a job for another 10 years. I will be studying university for 2 years, then I will go to Qom and study there for as long as possible, I am aiming for 30. So I won't have a job until I am over 30, maybe. I will be studying in Qom, I don't know if the money I receive will be enough. Although I will have a degree and find a job in Iran once I learn farsi in Qom. but this will be many many years before I have a job and be able to sustain a family, at least 5 years.

 

So aren't my parents supposed to get me married and help? or at least, according to the Qur'an god will enrich me once I am married, god knows how.

 

So you want your parents to support you and your family until you one day maybe get a job? And what about when you have children, who turn Baligh? Who will support them? Your parents too?

 

You have no such right over your parents. They are obliged to help you get married, and that's it. 

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How so?

well, half incorrect.

Elaborate?

نفقة الأبناء والأحفاد:

1 ـ المشهور أنّ نفقة معيشة الولد ـ إذا كان فقيراً ولم يكن له مورد ماليّ ـ سواء كان ابناً أو بنتاً في عُهدة الأفراد التالين حسب الأولويّة:

 الأب.

 جدّ الولد لأبيه.

 الأمّ.

 أبوَا الأم ـ حيث يدفع كلّ واحد منهم نصف النفقة ـ وإذا وُجدت أمّ والد الوالد فعليها الاشتراك في دفع النفقة مع والدَيّ الأمّ، وهذا هو القول المشهور الموافق للاحتياط.

2 ـ يجب على الإنسان ـ عند الإمكان ـ تأمين نفقة معيشة أبنائه وأحفاده وأبناء أحفاده وأحفاد أحفاده وأبنائهم إذا كانوا فقراء ولم يكن في وسعهم العمل والكسب، صغاراً كانوا أم كباراً، مسلمين كانوا أم كفّاراً.

3 ـ يجب على الأب والأمّ تأمين نفقة ولدهما الفقير، ولا يسقط وجوب نفقته عن عهدة أبويه لمجرّد أنّه يتمكّن من أخذ الصدقات، سواءً كان في أخذ الصدقات إهانة له أم لم يكن؛ أمّا إذا دفع أحد نفقه معيشته سقط وجوب نفقته عن والديه.

4 ـ يجب على الأب تأمين نفقة معيشة وُلْده وأولاد ولده، أمّا نفقة معيشة زوجة ابنه فلا تجب عليه.

5 ـ يجب على الأبوين دفع نفقة معيشة ابنهما الفقير إذا كان عاجزاً عن العمل والكسب؛ أمّا نفقة زواجه فليست واجبة على والديه.

6 ـ إذا لم يدفع الأب نفقه معيشه ولده الفقير، لم تسقط ولايته على ابنه غير البالغ.

7 ـ إذا لم يدفع الأب نفقة معيشه ولده الفقير، لم يكن مبلغ النفقه في ذمّته؛ أمّا إذا طلب الأب من شخص آخر إنفاق مبلغ من المال على ولده كان الأب ضامناً لذلك المبلغ، أمّا إذا أنفق ذلك الشخصُ المبلغَ على الولد بدون طلب من الأب لم يكن الأب ضامناً.

8 ـ ثواب التوسعة في نفقة الزوجة والولد أفضل من ثواب الصدقة على الآخرين.

http://www.imamreza.net/arb/imamreza.php?print=352

 

Those about 8 rules. in brief, a parent who is capable should support his poor son or daughter until they can support themselves even after puberty. They should also support the grandchildren.

But they are not responsible about his wife.

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^ Should or must? Charity is always family first. A son who is capable should support his poor parents too, after meeting the needs of his children and wife.

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So, What it really comes down to is, when couples decide to marry and then get the baby urges, should realise and know that, when the babies are produced, they will eventually grow, and if they do have the means, create a marriage trust or fund, just like they do for education.

 

note SF TAHA : Babies cost a lot of monies too. More then you can imagine. Hope you and your pedar worked out something.

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Maybe a very good one?

 

A lack of job does not mean that there is no potential. We have heard stories from the time of the Prophet of people who had no wealth and were encouraged to get married. Sometimes we need to see examples from our own lives. I have a friend who was not even able to afford his own lunch, and he got married. He told his wife that he had nothing to offer but iman. She said that after marriage the wealth will come. Today he has his own business, his own place to live and children. What if God wanted to test his faith? Wait long for wealth and keep waiting?

See that story confirms the Ayat, not that it needs confirming, but people aren't believing it's message.

 

Obviously I won't be jobless for my whole life, only a few years until my studies are finished. Maximum 5 years, I have a job and an income, job is for experience, income is from Uni. 

 

So?

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Well I won't have a job for another 10 years. I will be studying university for 2 years, then I will go to Qom and study there for as long as possible, I am aiming for 30. So I won't have a job until I am over 30, maybe. I will be studying in Qom, I don't know if the money I receive will be enough. Although I will have a degree and find a job in Iran once I learn farsi in Qom. but this will be many many years before I have a job and be able to sustain a family, at least 5 years.

 

This probably is not what you want to hear but, in my opinion, your goals are very incompatible. Having a family requires much responsibility, both financial and otherwise, and being a full time student (without working) for the next 10 years is not stepping up and taking the responsibility raising a family requires.

 

You mentioned earning £9000 a year and frankly, that is nowhere near sufficient to raise a family. My family lived in London for 3 years for my dad's job and £9000 only covered 3 months rent and note, I mean rent ONLY and did NOT include food, clothing, transportation, and other expenses. (I know this because I wanted to take a year off after graduation this coming May and spend it living in the London. I had a plan for covering my expenses and thought I had it all covered until  my dad kindly pointed out the actual cost of living in London. :( )

 

I think you should reevaluate your priorities and give all of this much more thought. If getting married and starting a family is that important to you and is a priority, it would be wise to focus on finishing up at uni and cut down, or possibly eliminate, the amount of time you intend to spend at Qom. Ideally, we would be able to do everything we like. Unfortunately though, we don't live in an ideal world and our circumstances often force us to choose between things. 

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Taha

People rejecting on lack of wealth might not necessarily mean they reject because they don't believe Allah provides.

If I had a daughter I'd look at maturity, confidence and passion to make things work apart from imaan.

I'd also not marry my daughter to someone who wants to argue with hadith and Quran by quoting fifteen of them while ignoring 46000.

People look from lens of future probability too and maybe if you plan better you'll be able to gain more respect if not convince. Inshaallah, Allah will help you when you focus on means and not end in this case.

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Brother, your best bet will be to marry either a woman who is independently wealthy and won't mind supporting the whole family, or one who is very poor and will be used to going without.

It's possible, but not easy.

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Maybe a very good one?

 

A lack of job does not mean that there is no potential. We have heard stories from the time of the Prophet of people who had no wealth and were encouraged to get married. Sometimes we need to see examples from our own lives. I have a friend who was not even able to afford his own lunch, and he got married. He told his wife that he had nothing to offer but iman. She said that after marriage the wealth will come. Today he has his own business, his own place to live and children. What if God wanted to test his faith? Wait long for wealth and keep waiting?

 

I'm not arguing with you. I'm just being realistic. He's not the first university student who wants to get married. I'm afraid it's very rarely feasible, and parents who marry their daughter based purely on potential are rare. Again, I'm not saying that he has to be advanced in his career - but I'd say it would be fair to expect that he has at least started it.

 

On another note, I'd be wary of parents who marry their daughters very easily, and are keen to 'get rid of them'. I know it sounds cynical, but in many situations (not all), there is a reason. This has nothing to do with your friend by the way, I'm speaking in general. 

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So?

 

In theory, why do you need much of an income? I had a friend at university who was married. He lived with his parents and she with hers. He got a very good job after he graduated. 

 

You would need parents with non-irrational (note I didn't say rational) ideas for that to be possible. Some people create problems where there aren't any. 

 

Some people in certain cultures live with the husband's parents while being married as students. I am not a great fan of that, but if it works for them then who has the right object with baseless objections? At least these people keep away from deadly sins.

 

Here is another irrational belief: Single students living away from their parents are better able to sustain themselves than married students who share the accommodation and their expenses. Do the non-muslims advise students in their 20s to remain single because cohabiting would cost more than living alone? 

 

We have people who spend huge amounts of money on sending their children to universities in far away places, and sometimes these students work to support themselves. However when someone raises the idea that pleasing Allah is also worth spending money on (in addition to the idea that a married couple will cost less to support than singles), then the devil inspires the naysayers with irrational ideas.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm just being realistic. He's not the first university student who wants to get married. I'm afraid it's very rarely feasible, and parents who marry their daughter based purely on potential are rare. Again, I'm not saying that he has to be advanced in his career - but I'd say it would be fair to expect that he has at least started it.

 

I can agree with the former part but not the part in bold.

 

On another note, I'd be wary of parents who marry their daughters very easily, and are keen to 'get rid of them'. I know it sounds cynical, but in many situations (not all), there is a reason. This has nothing to do with your friend by the way, I'm speaking in general.  

 

 

How could you arrive at the conclusion that this is what happens in general? Very religious parents (e.g. some ulama) have this practice. Have you ever seen how early hawzah students get married?

Edited by Muhammed Ali

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