Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
anzurna

Where Is Paradise And Hell

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Salam fellows:

 

As it is now known that paradise or hell is not above the sky, as previously believed. Please consider following points:

 

1) Paradise and Hell is created before the creation of this universe (as it was first residence of father Adam (sa) and mother Eve (sa)), so they exists right now.

 

2) People will be raised from their graves, graves are on this earth, and there would be a bridge, which each would have to cross, below that bridge there would be hell and on the other side of that bridge there would be Paradise, it seems that either earth would be connected to hell and paradise or vice versa.

 

3) If, hypothetically, a space explorer ship just go into space, and keep travel in single direction, it is not like that it will hit a wall, or it might find hell or paradise somewhere in this universe (filled with angles, living there), and they somehow conquer it and take control of the paradise. So, hell or paradise is not in this universe.

 

Is there any Islamic reference, which would put some light in above points that where is the Paradise and Hell, and how would it all connect ?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

one important point to take into consideration dear friend:

is it only witnessing by this eye that could prove the existence of something, so that things which have not been observed by this eye have no existence?(y/n)

if yes, the paradise and Hell we promised, have been described totally different than what we expect to touch by our worldly senses so it is contradiction!

and if No, no matter if we could not see them now as we are living in this world and have no access to what would happen after our death, may be the Paradise and Hell are close to us even now but since we have no sense experiencing it, deny their existence; just a poor example to elaborate what I said: imagine someone next to you dreaming a frightening dream, you see s/he is shaking, sweating, and suddenly shouting and wake up from his sleep. what happened to him was real or not real?!! we could not say it was not real as it was some effects and we could see the influence of it like frightening and so on but we were not able to see what he saw. 

 

there are some traditions that affirm the existence of Paradise and Hell even in this world :

one is story of Haitha Ibn Nouman, when he claimed that he reached the level of certainty in front of prophet, the prophet asked him to give a proof for his claim. and he said: I reached a certain mood as if I see the people who are in paradise enjoing the blessing of God and I see the people in Hell and hear their yielding out of fire ....

then, prophet confirmed what he said and prayed for him.

this is the entire link:

 

كيف أصبحت يا فلأن؟ قال: أصبحت يا رسول الله موقنا فعجب رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) من قوله وقال: إن لكل يقين حقيقة فما حقيقة يقينك؟ فقال: إن يقيني يا رسول الله هو الذي أحزنني وأسهر ليلي وأظمأ هواجري فعزفت نفسي عن الدنيا وما فيها حتى كأني أنظر إلى عرش ربي وقد نصب للحساب وحشر الخلائق لذلك وأنا فيهم وكأني أنظر إلى أهل الجنة يتنعمون في الجنة ويتعارفون وعلى الأرائك متكئون وكأني أنظر إلى أهل النار وهم فيها معذبون مصطرخون وكأني الآن أسمع زفير النار يدور في مسامعي، فقال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) لأصحابه:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Allah is the Creator of the universes.  Why try to limit heaven and hell to only this one?  Are humans so arrogant as to think they know and understand all that exists?

 

Sorry, I've got no quotes to provide. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Allah is the Creator of the universes.  Why try to limit heaven and hell to only this one?  Are humans so arrogant as to think they know and understand all that exists?

 

Sorry, I've got no quotes to provide. 

Sorry, it was about the first or the second post?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@notme: pardon me but you are being arrogant in thinking that asking questions about somethings you don't know is your insult.

You are missing the point, the more we learn the more we believe, that's where questions come. I don't want to have a belief of eye, I want belief of heart, because eyes sometimes lies too. Believe of heart comes with explanations and reasoning. We don't have to be muslim, just because we are borned in muslim family, what about if it would be christian family. Wouldn't we be just believing what we are told ?

 

If you read Holy Quran, you will understand that even Prophets prayed to see the reflection of Allah (tajalli) or reincarnation process of living beings, not because they didn't belief, but because they wanted answers.

 

@mahdi servant.01 thanks for the reference. This seems that, as per current understandings (level of knowledge of humanity), Paradise and Hell are in another dimension (or parallel universe), along with this dimension, and on the day of judgement, both dimensions will join together, to make a combined/single dimension.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

by earth, it could not be meant this earth unless it changes completely. since Hell and paradise are immortal while this earth attributed to the physical limitations. anyhow, every idea must be corresponded to the Quran and Traditions in this regard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam, 

 

There are several opinions on the creation of Paradise and Hell. 

 

Some ulema believe that they are not yet created, and they will be created after the Day of Judgement and some believe they are already created. Where Adam and Eve were was not the Eternal Paradise (Jannatul Khulda), if it was, they would have never been taken out of it.

 

Also, the Sirat(bridge), is not between the earth and heaven, it is a bridge that passes over the hellfire and ends in Paradise, The evil people will fall into hell in the process of crossing the Sirat and the Good people will pass over it and enter Paradise.

 

Your scenario regarding a 'hostile takeover' of Paradise or Hell is not possible for two reasons

 

First there are seven heavens, or seven skies (samawat sab3a)

 

Everything we can see or possibly touch or explore or colonize is in the first heaven. It is called the 'dunya' , literally meaning 'to go down'. The dunya is the smallest and lowest of all the heavens. I know it is hard to imagine sometimes, this vast universe with all the stars and planets and galaxies billions of light years across is only one heaven which is the lowest and smallest, but it is. This is clear from authentic hadith. 

 

There is authentic hadiths that say the realtion of the first heaven to the second is as a grain of sand compared to a vast ocean, and also the second to the third, third to the fourth, etc and all these are but a grain of sand compared to the Kursi and the Kursi is a grain of sand compared to the Arsh. 

 

So as long as we are still alive, we are in the dunya (the first heaven) and we have no access to the other heavens. 

The only one who saw all the heavens and was still alive was Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) and this was a special privilege for him. Lets suppose that somehow we invented a teleportation machine or some other device that could transport us to the other heavens, then you would be dealing with the second issue. 

 

Hell and Paradise are both guarded by angels that are extremely powerful and the whole of mankind could not defeat one of these angels. The guardian of Hell is called Malik and the guardian of Paradise is called Radwan. They are angels that were created for only one purpose and that is to guard both Hell and Paradise from anyone attempting to enter without the permission of Allah(s.w.a). They are undefeatable. So anyone who enters either enters only with the permission of Allah(s.w.a) and the angels let them pass, otherwise there is no way they can. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam,

 

@Abu Hadi, the explanation you provided, is very difficult to understand in terms of current level of knowledge/understandings of human beings. Allah, the Magnificent, created this universe as infinite, may be the only infinite thing we have example of (which, by the way, makes us understand the "infinite" word itself, and help us having glimpse, although not much, at qualities of Allah the Great, say: how much the One would be powerful, who can create such an "infinite" thing). So, if one thing is infinite, then we cannot say that other things are physically outside it... then the first thing would not be infinite. 

 

The skies those are found in Ahadith, does not necessarily mean literal sky, which is above clouds, but it could mean a separation between universes, which as I mentioned above, could be entirely  another dimension (or entire parallel universe) at all. At times, it could be very difficult to find words, when the addressed is not knowledgeable enough, to explain things. I would like to use example, given by Ayatollah Khomeni (ra) in one of his book that it is almost impossible to tell what is light to someone, who was born blind. So, I think, sky would have been used as metaphor.

 

Can you please give me reference that, our father, Hazrat Adam (sa), was not in the paradise, which is promised ?

 

I think the rule to cross over to the parallel universe (or other dimension) is set by Allah the Great, is not through by any means of neutonion physics or mental, but only with Taqwa. This way only the right person can visit it, no one with ill wish. So, only Prophet PBUH, Imam (sa) and Walis (ra) are able to visit it.

 

May Allah the Great accept us as his Wali (ra) and grant us the visit in this life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Allah is the lord of the eastS and westS. This may be talking about Heaven and Hell in terms of direction.

The question I am about to pose could seem really irrelevant or irrational but to me it may help. How do we now up is up and not down or even left or right? (In terms of the Universe)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@shiamehdi14,

 

It is said one of the biggest problems astronauts have is orientation. Which way is up? Well, whatever way you want it to be, and it's always changing depending on which way you're "floating".

  there is an up and there is a down. Its relative to your orientation. basicaly putting it ,up is what ever direction your head is pointing.

 

reference: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080217213014AAzFVZ5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assalamu'alaikum Wr. Wb. Brothers & Sisters.

 

I agree with Abu Hadi, Rasulullah (SAWAW) was the only one who were alive to see heaven and hell and returned. Maybe, Nabi Isa (AS) currently in heaven, but he's not return, yet.

 

as for point 1; Firstly, i also heard somewhere in (if i'm not mistaken) Dr. Ammar Nakshawani lecture over youtube, that Adam & Eve's heaven is not THE Heaven. It's a heaven created on or near the earth. secondly, i heard from my teacher (but i need to confirm it again with him for resources) that why current Iraq always in turmoil because the gate of Adam & Eve's heaven is near there, meaning, when Adam & Eve came down to this earth through that gate. But, i apologise i cannot provide any quotes or resources for the time being. But, this will be my note when i'm seeing my teacher, Insha Allah.

 

as for point 2; I grow up in Ahlul-Sunnah way. There's a saying that Arafah (when we do hajj), it's the place where people brought up from grave and the place when they use "scales". After the assessment took place, then the shiratal mustaqim (that the bridge name). If, i said if, you would by any chance taking it Sci-Fi, maybe this is a worm-whole. Only Allah SWT. is the all-knowers. Since the Judgement day hasnt come yet, it's rather hard to prove.

 

as for point 3; Firstly, maybe i can provide some resource here. In Hayat Al-Quyub Vol.1 in the story of Prophet Nuh (AS). A group of angel came from heaven one, they said it took 500 years journey from earth to heaven one. then another group of angel came from heaven two, they said it took another 500 years journey from heaven one. Now, if want to take it to the realm of sci-fi, how fast you need to fly? light-year's fast or human's fast? because if youre flying in light-year's fast for 500 years, that's a very far way (does it mean the angel already knew what Prophet Nuh (AS) going to do so they flew 1000 years beforewards? or they flew really-really fast). But, if just a human's-fast, we should've spot heaven by now through hubble. Secondly, then again, if we're looking to the space we're looking to the past. Lets say hubble spotted heaven, it's 500 light-year's away, and we sent someone there, by the time they reached that spot, heaven may not be there anymore. Lastly, it's easy to find direction to heaven. Just put Ka'bah's top on your back and fly straight ahead, because Ka'bah is directly under the Al-Arsy. Then there will be another great finding; does the earth stays (using the Ka'bah as it center pole to Al-Arsy) and the universe evolve around earth? this means Al-Arsy is not moving and putting weight to the term "earth is the center of the universe". OR, the earth does move, the universe also, this means the Al-Arsy moves along. But, imagine how fast the Al-Arsy moves or how vast is the Al-Arsy since whenever Ka'bah pointed, there's the Al-Arsy. Subhanallah.

 

Look Brother/Sister, Allah SWT. sent prophet after prophet so He can sent His words to the human, in other words, earth-asise His words, in a blunt expression (forgive me) dumb-it-down. So Allah SWT.'s term about time or distance or space is different with us. I think, we cannot even phantom it. We cannot even understand when Imam Ali (AS) said," i split the heaven and hell". How? When?

 

I'm suggesting 3 options to approach this matter. 1) Pray to Allah SWT. to guide you to find the answer now and whatever you'll find will keep you stick to His path, or 2) Pray to Allah SWT. to allow you to meet our Imam Al-Mahdi (AS) and ask these questions, or 3) Pray to Allah SWT. be patience and focus on getting to heaven and have all these questions answered. Insha Allah.

 

Whatever you do, keep doing it, because most of the prophet used to ask who created all of this then they found Allah SWT.

 

Wa'alaikumsalam Wr. Wb. Brother & Sisters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam,

 

@Abu Hadi, the explanation you provided, is very difficult to understand in terms of current level of knowledge/understandings of human beings. Allah, the Magnificent, created this universe as infinite, may be the only infinite thing we have example of (which, by the way, makes us understand the "infinite" word itself, and help us having glimpse, although not much, at qualities of Allah the Great, say: how much the One would be powerful, who can create such an "infinite" thing). So, if one thing is infinite, then we cannot say that other things are physically outside it... then the first thing would not be infinite. 

 

The skies those are found in Ahadith, does not necessarily mean literal sky, which is above clouds, but it could mean a separation between universes, which as I mentioned above, could be entirely  another dimension (or entire parallel universe) at all. At times, it could be very difficult to find words, when the addressed is not knowledgeable enough, to explain things. I would like to use example, given by Ayatollah Khomeni (ra) in one of his book that it is almost impossible to tell what is light to someone, who was born blind. So, I think, sky would have been used as metaphor.

 

Can you please give me reference that, our father, Hazrat Adam (sa), was not in the paradise, which is promised ?

 

I think the rule to cross over to the parallel universe (or other dimension) is set by Allah the Great, is not through by any means of neutonion physics or mental, but only with Taqwa. This way only the right person can visit it, no one with ill wish. So, only Prophet PBUH, Imam (sa) and Walis (ra) are able to visit it.

 

May Allah the Great accept us as his Wali (ra) and grant us the visit in this life.

 

- The Universe is not infinite. Although it is very large, it has limits. So this is where you become confused, because you are basing your thoughts on an incorrect premise(i.,e. that the universe is infinite). 

 

- There is a hadith from Imam Saqid(a.s) where one of his companions asked him the same question that you asked. The Imam(a.s) replied, 'The Garden(Jannat) that Nabi Adam(a.s) was in was not the 'Jennatul Khulda' (the eternal heaven), otherwise he would never have been taken out of it, nor was it a Garden of this world, but it was a special creation of Allah(s.w.a)'. 

 

There have been many discussions regarding the Garden of Prophet Adam(a.s.). In Tafsir Mizan, Sayyid Tabatabai (r.a) has a long article regarding it. You should read that because it is very informative of the subject. If you are interested in reading it, I will try to find the link and post it. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brother @Abu Hadi, Thanks for the Hadith reference, it makes sense. It would be great if you could point me to the Tafseer Al Meezan article for more insight.

 

Can you also please give me reference that Universe is not infinite, because if you say, universe is contained in something else, which is similar to the universe, why not call that universe, and if say that is also within some thing, than call it universe, so on. So, for simplicity lets call the whole thing universe, which is infinite.

 

This is the same logic, I read some where (by our Imam) that Allah created us, who created Allah (nauzobillah)? the Answer was this, that lets assume some one created Allah (nauzobillah), then call that one Allah instead, someone else created Him, then call Him Allah, so on, you can't say it infinitely and has to finish some where, why not just finish at level 1, what our Creator told us, that He created us and nothing created Him, He was from ever and will be forever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam

 

Article from Al Mizan

 

http://www.al-islam.org/al-mizan-exegesis-quran-vol-1-allamah-sayyid-muhammad-husayn-tabatabai/suratul-baqarah-verses-35-39#commentary

 

 

The fact that the universe is finite is clear from both the Holy Quran and Science. 

The basic proof is that the Universe had a beginning. Anything that has a beginning is finite and not infinite. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam @Abu Hadi, thanks for the link.

 

Can you please provide me Quranic reference of finite univers ?

How come a thing with a origin in time, concludes with finite space ? (it concludes finite time/life, but how so finite space)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...