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coldcow

Dealing With Multiple Proposals

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So I just found out that my parents have received 3 proposals for me in the last 2 weeks.  I don't know why they just decided to come in all at once like this, but they did.  Ironically, I think 2 of the girls are somewhat friends, or they may be related, but I'm not sure, I don't really know either of them.  

 

Anyways, what is the proper etiquite here.  Do I meet with all 3 then make a decision?  Or do I meet with one, make a decision, and move on if I don't like her?  It seems wrong to "shop" between the 3, but then this is a big time decision and what if I choose the 1st one when the 3rd one would've been a much better match?

 

Also, what's the halal way of interviewing each other?  Do you have to meet at one or the other's house with each other's parents in the other room?  Does someone need to be in the room watching you two at all times?

 

Please elighten me!

 

:unsure:

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Bismillah.

 

Salaam.

 

You can talk with girls for common things without lust and in the limitation of necessities - like for getting aware for marriage - and there is no problem to begin seeing more than one girl in order to choose the best case, but as I mentioned in religious framework.

 

With Duas.

 

Narsis.

Edited by narsis

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Salam,

Lol, I guess things happen when you least expect them to happen. I think its a tricky thing if the two girls are relatives or friends. You can do speak to each one and see which one you like and see a future with. I would say you can take your mother and her and her mother to a coffee shop and speak. I dont think its necessary for the parents to watch you guys all the time, your both adults.

I think that islamiclly you probably have to see one at a time,and if you dont like her then you can see the other. It's a fair approach because it allows you to examine what you have and not think or try to conivence yourself you can find better or what you may be messing out on.

Anyways,best of luck with whatever you do.

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You are being proposed to by girls? That's unexpected. Is this usual in your culture?

I'd recommend taking things as they come and neither rushing into anything, nor wasting time if you realize someone will not be a good match for you.

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So I just found out that my parents have received 3 proposals for me in the last 2 weeks.  I don't know why they just decided to come in all at once like this, but they did.  Ironically, I think 2 of the girls are somewhat friends, or they may be related, but I'm not sure, I don't really know either of them.  

 

Anyways, what is the proper etiquite here.  Do I meet with all 3 then make a decision?  Or do I meet with one, make a decision, and move on if I don't like her?  It seems wrong to "shop" between the 3, but then this is a big time decision and what if I choose the 1st one when the 3rd one would've been a much better match?

 

Also, what's the halal way of interviewing each other?  Do you have to meet at one or the other's house with each other's parents in the other room?  Does someone need to be in the room watching you two at all times?

 

Please elighten me!

 

:unsure:

 

What the heck are you doing to have them propose to you?

 

You're going to have to share your secrets...

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He owns a lot of COWS, that's why.

 

It is normal, if families are large or known within the greater communities to receive proposals. Consider it as,

 

-Salam, this is my son,

-ahh, Mashallah,

-How old is your son,

-Ahh

-what does he do?

-Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh,

-He is very handsome ( cough, cough )

-Married or looking,

-Not sure, maybe,

-Well, what if he and my daughter etc.....

-Parents ( omg, this loser bum is worth something )

-yes, okay...., arrange meeting,

-SON, we find wife 4 u, okay, that is final!

-but, what, omg, father???

-what will I wear, I am all out of makeup!!

-Father, errrrr

-here, use mine.

 

It is a catch 22, You either interview one then move on to the next, or interview all three. Problem is, if you like number one, then you must tell N2 / N3 - In your dreams.

 

Or irrelevant if you like N1, interview all three then choose. 

 

Prepare your questions, it is like an interview, be your self, but remember it is a not place to get shy or show how macho you are, here let me hold this hot cup of tea without the handle, cause I am tough!. or Let me eat this cake with my sleeve up, so you can see my biceps.

 

I am on a roll! :)

Edited by D3v1L

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I think what coldcow means by "proposals" isn't that the parents proposed marriage, but rather just proposed/suggested that their kids see if they might be compatible, and then could get married if they find they are a match.

 

As to why they came now, I wouldn't be surprised if it was because of all the summertime marriages that take place, making people think about marriage more.

 

 

It's a tricky situation though, especially if 2 of them are friends. My thoughts are:

 

- To a reasonable extent, think over what you really like and dislike beforehand... so as people said, if you see someone certainly isn't a match, you won't spend extra time.

 

- Don't be too quick into thinking that one of them absolutely, definitely is your match... because if she turns out not to be, it could be really awkward if that one turns out to be your future wife's friend (or maybe it wouldn't be, but you don't want your wife to feel like you really wanted to marry her friend, even though if you had known more, would have picked the wife in the first place).  

 

- On the flipside, you also don't want to seem ambivalent / uninterested, because then even if a girl would have been a match, ambivalence may cause her to feel it's not a match.  I would say be interested (if you are), but within a sense of propriety.

 

- And like people said, it's also difficult because you don't know if the girls are also pursuing other "leads" in the same way.  Or none of them may be a match for other reasons.

 

 

I am curious too, what's the standard process most people do?  It seems like one at a time would be better, but that's hard to do when 3 "proposed suggestions" come at the same time, and may know each other.

Edited by Bright

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Easy

 

Meet A - Saturday - Sunday to think or decide ( emotions have calmed down )

 

Monday or Tuesday - Call B to meet Saturday -  Sunday to think or decide

 

Monday or Tuesday - Call C to meet Saturday -  Sunday to think or decide

 

Of course one would have to consolidate with the large gaps in between to keep in contact with A and B. Watsapp - skype. heck meet them on a Wednesday!.

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Lucky! Tell the other brothers on the forum the secrets of your diet so they too can attract this many proposals from the ladies.

Halal only diet, of course  B)

 

lol - u realize that all three might reject you? so, be humble, and pray that u get accepted by one of the three. 

Right, and I could reject all 3.  I wasn't trying to come off as arrogant with my post.  

 

You are being proposed to by girls? That's unexpected. Is this usual in your culture?

I'd recommend taking things as they come and neither rushing into anything, nor wasting time if you realize someone will not be a good match for you.

Bright is correct in that the girls aren't proposing to me, but I suspect the girls' parents heard good things about me through some auntie trying to play matchmaker, and they probably (hopefully) discussed it with their daughter and then somehow got the word to my parents that they'd like me to meet their daughter.

 

What the heck are you doing to have them propose to you?

 

You're going to have to share your secrets...

Yeah, I have no clue.  My theory is that I'm just really respectful to all the aunties and their husbands who like playing matchmaker, or they just don't know me well enough to know better  :shaytan: .   I've been thinking that the sudden 3 proposals either means the 3 families heard about me at the same time, from the same person, or they know the others are interested and want to "get their name in first," so to speak. It's kind of creepy.

 

 

Thanks for all the info.  Sounds like this kind of set up is out:

Edited by Muhammed Ali

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Salaam,

 

As a female, I'd feel disrespected if someone proposed to me and was simultaneously talking to someone else. It says a lot about the guys character. It's not like you're applying to multiple universities for admissions, you're dealing with humans who have emotions, hopes, and are entrusting you with their vulnerability by giving you the chance to even speak to them. How would you feel if your sister was in their place? Would Imam Ali/ any of the Imams (as) do that? 

 

My advice is to speak to them in the order they came, everything is in the hands of Allah swt, if He wants something to happen regardless of the number of doors closed, He'd open all of them for you. If it's not meant to happen then regardless of how many open door there exists He'd close them all.

 

inshAllah khair. 

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Salaam,

 

As a female, I'd feel disrespected if someone proposed to me and was simultaneously talking to someone else. It says a lot about the guys character. It's not like you're applying to multiple universities for admissions, you're dealing with humans who have emotions, hopes, and are entrusting you with their vulnerability by giving you the chance to even speak to them. How would you feel if your sister was in their place? Would Imam Ali/ any of the Imams (as) do that? 

 

My advice is to speak to them in the order they came, everything is in the hands of Allah swt, if He wants something to happen regardless of the number of doors closed, He'd open all of them for you. If it's not meant to happen then regardless of how many open door there exists He'd close them all.

 

inshAllah khair. 

Thank you for your opinion, however I'm not sure if you've misread my situation. I'm not the one doing the proposing here.  I have been essentially proposed to by the families of 3 girls.  You said you'd feel insulted if a boy proposed to you and was talking with another girl at the same time, which is not what's happening here.

 

Now the Imams did have multiple wives, and I think some of them may have had relations with slaves as is permitted.  So I think it's a little hard to say whether or not they would've spoken to more than one girl at a time seeking marriage, because they could have married more than one at a time, right?  

 

And a separate matter, but why not ask what with Prophet Muhammad (AS) do?  Shouldn't his example hold more weight, as a prophet, than that of the Imams?

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^Prophet (pbuh&hf) was married to nine wives at a time, that doesn't mean we do the same.

 

Bismillah.

Salaam.

 

There is a jurisprudential issue in both Sunni and Shia jurisprudence by the name of “ʼIkhtisāsāt al-Nabī” or “Khasāʼis al-Nabī” (specificities of the Prophet) which accordingly there are some particular rulings which are only put forth by Allah (s) for the Prophet (p). To marry more than four wives permanently is one of those and to stay in battle is obligatory for him even if he is alone and going to be killed, so he is not permissible to scuttle from the battle. To perform prayer of night “Salātul-Layl” is obligatory only for the Prophet (p). And there are other rulings.

 

With Duas.

 

Narsis.

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^Prophet (pbuh&hf) was married to nine wives at a time, that doesn't mean we do the same.

Funny, people hounded me when I said the same thing about mutah - just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Everyone was like "oh noes, you can't say that" (the post, if you're interested: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234992821-mutah-is-it-justified-in-21th-century/page-2#entry2441008)

 

But what I posted above was in response to the sister who seemed almost angry at me with her post, and sounded like she was insinuating that I'm not acting in accordance with the Imams or the Prophet.  So I was pointing out that if I really tried, I could probably seek more than one marriage, and speaking to more than one girl at a time wouldn't be out of the question to pursue that end.

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Mutah is highly encouraged

 

I see that stated often, but I question it.  And even if that view is based on hadiths that are valid, there's probably context to it that gets left out when repeated.
 
My guess is that it's encouraged with widows or divorcees (and with the hope that it would lead to permanent marriage), but discouraged with never-married girls... I think I remember reading something along those lines.
Edited by Bright

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Mutah is highly encouraged so you are doing a bad thing because you are discouraging a good act by saying people shouldn't do it just because they can.

 

In our religion we have to enjoin good and forbid evil, you are discouraging a good act.

How can mutah possibly be a good thing when compared to remaining chaste?  Or when compared to permanent marriage the first time around?  It is permissible (according to many scholars), but so is smoking (according to many scholars), does that mean you should smoke because you can?

 

If you want to get married, find someone to settle down with permanently.  Don't go trying to find women who will sell "companionship" to you for money.  I'd imagine most young men here wouldn't want their female family members jumping from mutah to mutah, why would they want to use someone else's daughter, or sister, or even mother (widow/divorcee), for mutah?

 

But that's just my opinion.

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How can mutah possibly be a good thing when compared to remaining chaste?  Or when compared to permanent marriage the first time around?  It is permissible (according to many scholars), but so is smoking (according to many scholars), does that mean you should smoke because you can?

 

If you want to get married, find someone to settle down with permanently.  Don't go trying to find women who will sell "companionship" to you for money.  I'd imagine most young men here wouldn't want their female family members jumping from mutah to mutah, why would they want to use someone else's daughter, or sister, or even mother (widow/divorcee), for mutah?

 

But that's just my opinion.

 

Yes, I agree, permanent marriage should be the real focus.  I included the part below in my post earlier, but then took it out because I didn't want to derail the thread too much... but since you're also discussing it, I'll post it now:

 

-----

I did a quick search to see why people think it's encouraged... I didn't feel like spending more than a minute on it so didn't find anything specific on that, but found 2 relevant posts by Ruq:
 
"Any marriage that is engaged in for lustful reasons is unIslamic according to the criteria of Quran, whether it be with free women, ahlul kitab or slaves and the women should also be chaste and not lustful (4:24, 4:25, 5:5). Quran makes clear marriage is a serious contract and responsibility that shouldnt be taken lightly."
 
"The Quran doesnt distinguish between different 'kinds' of marriages, it talks of marriage and what is and isnt permitted. Men who cannot afford to marry free believing women can marry a believing slave if they fear commiting sin, but it is recommended to be patient instead (4:25). Nowadays that option isnt available of course, but that doesnt negate the Quranic prescription when it comes to motivations and responsibility regarding a believers behaviour (with regards to marriage or otherwise)."
-----
 
For the widows aspect though, part of the context could be that after times of war, there may be a shortage of men, and a time with a lot of transition, etc.  But that's very unlikely to be the case for anyone on this site.
 
Anyway, I think mutah can be useful in some cases, but I'm against blanket statements saying it's highly encouraged.
Edited by Bright

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Yeah, I think the thread has for the most part run its course (although I'm happy to accept more advice from anyone).

 

But my cursory understanding of mutah was that it was originally intended for when early Muslim armies were away for long periods of times from their wives, and exposed to the local population - rather than risk accusations of rape or zinah, etc., mutah was created as an easy way out.  Similarly, when Islam was in its infancy, alcohol wasn't completely forbidden.  Over time, alcohol was completely forbidden.  Likewise, mutah was banned at some point when Muslim armies returned.  Then I think it was allowed at some point again in the future, and then eventually banned by one of the first 3 caliphs before Imam Ali.  

 

I do not support it because I think it is an easy way out of your obligation to chastity.  When you have an easy way out, most people take it.  If you had the option of exercise to lose weight, or taking a pill to lose weight, most people take the pill.  But which is better for you?  Likewise, which one is better for your soul?  Which is better for your iman?  Which would God prefer you do?  Would you want your daughter partaking in mutah with other men?  I know if I have a son one day and he says he did mutah because he couldn't control himself, I would beat him till his bum is black and blue.

 

Anyways, yeah, off topic.

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Well cold cow and bright, you are just acting on whims and opinions, I am saying what the Mujtahideen say after studying 60 years.

 

You would have to be retarded to say that Mutah ruins chastity. Chastity is ruined when you commit haram acts such as Zina. Mutah is marriage.

 

People who like each other, they do non-sexual muta before getting married in order to get to know each other.

 

Those who are divorced or widowed, they can choose to marry someone temporarily.

 

Everyone has sexual needs, including the divorced and widowed, so why do you expect them to not marry for the sake of sexual pleasure? and how does this go against chastity?

 

"Any marriage that is engaged in for lustful reasons is unIslamic according to the criteria of Quran" - Your parents were probably in an unislamic marriage then according to your quote? don't be silly please, lust is what makes people want women, otherwise why would men be attracted to them?

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Bismillah.

 

Salaam to all.

 

As some of friends mentioned, Mut'a is for those who are in emergency need of that; for example if you inject morphine to a patient, he will get rest and cured but if you inject it to a health person, he will be addicted to that. Now there is a clear rule; everybody who is going to commit sin, marriage, permanent or temporary, is obligatory for him; if he is able to get marriage permanently, he has to do that but if he is not able, temporary marriage remains on his obligation.

 

With Duas.

 

Narsis.

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yes

Things that plays a greater part then lust might be personality, interests, innocence and a thought of having a companion who will be with you for your entire life.

You do know looks wear out in like 10-15 years, there will be no lust then, will you leave your women?

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yes

 

Bismillah.

 

Salaam.

 

Allah (s) mentions the goal of marriage: He (s) says:

 

وَ مِنْ آياتِهِ أَنْ خَلَقَ لَكُمْ مِنْ أَنْفُسِكُمْ أَزْواجاً لِتَسْكُنُوا إِلَيْها وَ جَعَلَ بَيْنَكُمْ مَوَدَّةً وَ رَحْمَةً إِنَّ في‏ ذلِكَ لَآياتٍ لِقَوْمٍ يَتَفَكَّرُون

 

And of His signs is that He created for you mates from your own selves that you may take comfort in them, and He ordained affection and mercy between you. There are indeed signs in that for a people who reflect. (The Qur'an 30:21)

 

So the goal is much more than satisfying lusts; it is about to satisfy everything which make you comfortable mentally and physically; it includes satisfying sexual need as other needs.

 

Lust is a holy power we are blessed with and Allah (s) expects us to use, His blessings to us, in the right path.

 

With Duas.

 

Narsis.

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Things that plays a greater part then lust might be personality, interests, innocence and a thought of having a companion who will be with you for your entire life.

You do know looks wear out in like 10-15 years, there will be no lust then, will you leave your women?

 

Bismillah.

 

So the goal is much more than satisfying lusts; it is about to satisfy everything which make you comfortable mentally and physically; it includes satisfying sexual need as other needs.

 

Lust is a holy power we are blessed with and Allah (s) expects us to use, His blessings to us, in the right path.

 

With Duas.

 

Narsis.

I am not saying that marriage is simply about satisfying lust, of course it is much more than that.

 

What I am saying is that lust is what drives men to marry women. once married it is other qualities that keep marriage, such as fulfilling each others rights, emotional support, talking kindly and truthfully to each other, companionship is the best word for it.

Edited by SF Taha

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Yeah, I think the thread has for the most part run its course (although I'm happy to accept more advice from anyone).

 

But my cursory understanding of mutah was that it was originally intended for when early Muslim armies were away for long periods of times from their wives, and exposed to the local population - rather than risk accusations of rape or zinah, etc., mutah was created as an easy way out.  Similarly, when Islam was in its infancy, alcohol wasn't completely forbidden.  Over time, alcohol was completely forbidden.  Likewise, mutah was banned at some point when Muslim armies returned.  Then I think it was allowed at some point again in the future, and then eventually banned by one of the first 3 caliphs before Imam Ali.  

 

I do not support it because I think it is an easy way out of your obligation to chastity.  When you have an easy way out, most people take it.  If you had the option of exercise to lose weight, or taking a pill to lose weight, most people take the pill.  But which is better for you?  Likewise, which one is better for your soul?  Which is better for your iman?  Which would God prefer you do?  Would you want your daughter partaking in mutah with other men?  I know if I have a son one day and he says he did mutah because he couldn't control himself, I would beat him till his bum is black and blue.

 

Anyways, yeah, off topic

 

Salam, 

 

Congradulations, Br. on the proposals. InShahAllah you will find the right lady for you. 

 

Comparing Mutah to alcohol or to cigarettes(your previous post) is a deeply flawed analogy. 

Alcohol was never allowed in Islam, i.e. there is no verse in the Quran or any previous Divine Book (authentic) that allows drinking alcohol. There are many verses that condemn drinking alcohol. The prohibitions against alcohol were gradually enforced, but it was never allowed. So alcohol is from the haram, then and now

 

Cigarettes were never allowed or forbidden in the Quran, so they were in the category of mubah(i.e. it's up to you to do this or not. Most actions fall into this category). At the same time, as scientific research has now proven that cigarettes are damaging to your physical health, many marja' have placed them in the category of makrooh. There are no spiritual benefits to smoking cigarettes. 

 

Mutah is marriage, and marriage is highly mustahab and wajib in some cases. The actions of the three Caliphs ran counter to the teaching of Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) on many issues, mutah included. 

 

Imam Ali(a.s) famously said 'If Umar had not forbidden Mutah, noone would have committed zina(adultry) except the evil people' 

 

So Mutah is marriage. It serves a different function in society as compared to permenant marriage, but it is not of a lesser value than permenant marriage. 

 

Sheik Hamza Sodogar gave a powerful lecture that I think would benefit all of us to listen to. It is called 'Mobilizing Ourselves for Imam Mehdi(afs)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVhwGBVbDJE

 

He didn't talk about marriage specifically, but the general point was that the main reason why our Imam(a.f.s) is still in Ghaiba is because most muslims have an outlook which is completely selfish and animalistic. He said that an animal only thinks about its own food and its own survival, at most the food and survival of its immediate family. Outside of this, it couldn't care less. It can see a member of its own group being torn apart by a predator and ignore it and keep on eating. He said that we, as humans, are only different than animals when we rise above this level (he referenced a speech by Imam Ali(a.s) for this point).

 

We are used to thinking about ourselves and making token gestures when it comes to other than that. What will we do when we are called by our Imam(a.f.s) to sacrifice our wealth and our lives for a principle, i.e. establishment of Haqq on earth ? How will we react to this when we are used to only thinking about our own food, our own family, our own house, our own education, our own family, and ignoring everything else ?  I am speaking to myself first in this question. 

 

Now think about this point and the fact that Mutah, even though it is highly mustahab and in some cases wajib is practically forbidden in most muslim communities. What conclusion do you come to ? It is obvious to me but I'll let you think about it. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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Yeah, I think the thread has for the most part run its course (although I'm happy to accept more advice from anyone).

 

But my cursory understanding of mutah was that it was originally intended for when early Muslim armies were away for long periods of times from their wives, and exposed to the local population - rather than risk accusations of rape or zinah, etc., mutah was created as an easy way out.  Similarly, when Islam was in its infancy, alcohol wasn't completely forbidden.  Over time, alcohol was completely forbidden.  Likewise, mutah was banned at some point when Muslim armies returned.  Then I think it was allowed at some point again in the future, and then eventually banned by one of the first 3 caliphs before Imam Ali.  

 

I do not support it because I think it is an easy way out of your obligation to chastity.  When you have an easy way out, most people take it.  If you had the option of exercise to lose weight, or taking a pill to lose weight, most people take the pill.  But which is better for you?  Likewise, which one is better for your soul?  Which is better for your iman?  Which would God prefer you do?  Would you want your daughter partaking in mutah with other men?  I know if I have a son one day and he says he did mutah because he couldn't control himself, I would beat him till his bum is black and blue.

 

Anyways, yeah, off topic.

 

Bismillah.

 

Salaam brother.

 

We, as Muslims, have to admit that there is certainly philosophy and reason behind every rulings that Allah (s) has legislated; the issue of Mut‘ah is the same and one of the most important cases of Mut‘ah is the woman who has been divorced or a widow who is in need for marriage. But you have to keep this point in your mind that this is not appropriate for everybody to do everything; for example a patient who is in pain a lot must be injected by morphine in order to avoid pain but the person who is not in pain, if be injected, he will be addicted to that; so morphine is beneficial for the first person while it is harmful for the second one.

 

With Duas.

 

Narsis.

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Bismillah.

 

Salaam brother.

 

We, as Muslims, have to admit that there is certainly philosophy and reason behind every rulings that Allah (s) has legislated; the issue of Mut‘ah is the same and one of the most important cases of Mut‘ah is the woman who has been divorced or a widow who is in need for marriage. But you have to keep this point in your mind that this is not appropriate for everybody to do everything; for example a patient who is in pain a lot must be injected by morphine in order to avoid pain but the person who is not in pain, if be injected, he will be addicted to that; so morphine is beneficial for the first person while it is harmful for the second one.

 

With Duas.

 

Narsis.

Interesting analogy, but morphine is equally harmful for both people because of respiratory depression.  One will just feel better while he is on it than the other.  And morphine doesn't cure, it only masks the symptoms and you develop a tolerance to the effects of morphine, meaning you need stronger and stronger opiates.  Morphine is only a temporary fix, that can kill you or make you dependent on it, just like mutah (kill your self control), in my opinion.

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