Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
TheIslamHistory

Those Who Oppose Ammar Bin Yasser (R) Oppose Allah

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

(bismillah)

 

 

 

We read in "Al-Bida'ayah Wa Al-Nhia'yah (البداية والنهاية), By Abu Al=Fid'ah Isma'ail bin Amer bin Katheer) ( أبو الفداء إسماعيل بن عمر بن كثير القرشي البصري ثم الدمشقي), died, 774 hijrah, Investigated by Abdullah Bin Al-Muhsin Al-Turki ( عبد الله بن عبد المحسن التركي), the first print, 1997: An Authentic Narration, Volume 10, Page 651-to 652: 

 

 

 

وحدثنا : يحيى ، ثنا : عمرو بن عون أنا : هشيم ، عن العوام بن حوشب ، عن سلمة بن كهيل ، عن علقمة قال : أتيت أهل الشام فلقيت خالد بن الوليد فحدثني قال : كان بيني وبين عمار بن ياسر كلام في شئ فشكاني إلى رسول الله (ص) ، فقال : يا خالد ! لا تؤذ عماراً فإنه من يبغض عماراً يبغضه الله ، ومن يعاد عماراً يعاده الله ، قال : فعرضت له بعد ذلك فسللت ما في نفسه ، وله أحاديث كثيرة في فضائله (ر) قتل بصفين ، عن إحدى وقيل ثلاث وقيل أربع وتسعين سنة طعنة أبو الغادية فسقط ثم أكب عليه رجل فإحتز رأسه ، ثم إختصما إلى معاوية أيهما قتله ، فقال لهما عمرو بن العاص : أندرا فوالله إنكما لتختصمان في النار.

 

 

And told us: Yah'ha: Told us Amru bin Aw'aan that: Hasheem from Al-Awam bin Hushib, from Salamah bin Kuhail, from Alqamah said: I came to the people of Al-Shaa'am, so I came to Khalid Bin Al-Waleed, so he reported to me said: "There was between me and Ammar Bin Yasser some conversation, So he complained about me to the messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s), so he said: "O Khalid! To do not Hurt Ammar! for whom hates Ammar, hates Allah, and whom is against Ammar is Against Allah, said: So I offered to him after that, so I drew out from what was in me. And there are many narrations in his merits (May Allah be pleased with him), he died in Suffeen......

 

 

(Ibn Katheer says:).....And Stabbed him Abu Al-Ghidayah, he he fell, then knocked down by a man and his head was shaken, so they reported back to Muwa'iyah whom from them killed him, then said to them Amru Bin Al-Aa's: denounce, For By Allah you are both specialized in Hellfire.

 

 

Narrators: Thiqah (trusted).

 

First Narration: Yahya (يحيى بن زكريا), And he is Trusted: (link)

Second Narrator: Am'ru Bin Aw'an (عمرو بن عون), and He is Trusted: (link)

Third Narrator: Al-Awama bin Hushin (العوام بن حوشب) and He is Trusted: (link)

Fourth Narrator: Salmah Bin Kuhail (سلمة بن كهيل), And he is Trusted: (link)

Fifth Narrator: Aqlama bin Qais Al-Nakha'ai (علقمة بن قيس النخعي) and He is Trusted: (Link)

 

 

 

 

post-83202-0-08689400-1410345530_thumb.j post-83202-0-58427700-1410345648_thumb.j post-83202-0-06806300-1410345641_thumb.j

 

 

post-83202-0-28829900-1410345705_thumb.j

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We read in "Sun'an Al-Kubr'aa ( السنن الكبرى)",  By Imam Al-Nisa'a'i (أبو عبد الرحمن أحمد بن شعيب بن علي الخراساني، النسائي), Investigated it Hassan Ab'd Al-Mun'am Shalbi, (حسن عبد المنعم شلبي), ruled over it, "Shu'ai'yb Al-Arna'oot (شعيب الأرناؤوط), Gave to it: Abdullah Bin Ab'd Al-Muhsin Al-Turki ( عبد الله بن عبد المحسن التركي), Association: "Al-Risa'lah (مؤسسة الرسالة)", Beirut (بيروت), First print: 2001, 1421.H, Volume 7, page 356, Narration #8211:


 

وَأَخْبَرَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ سُلَيْمَانَ قَالَ: حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ بْنُ هَارُونَ قَالَ: أَخْبَرَنَا الْعَوَّامُ، عَنْ سَلَمَةَ بْنِ كُهَيْلٍ، عَنْ عَلْقَمَةَ، عَنْ خَالِدِ بْنِ الْوَلِيدِ قَالَ: كَانَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَ عَمَّارٍ كَلَامٌ، فَأَغْلَظْتُ لَهُ فِي الْقَوْلِ، فَانْطَلَقَ عَمَّارٌ يَشْكُو خَالِدًا إِلَى رَسُولِ اللهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ، فَجَاءَ خَالِدٌ وَعَمَّارٌ يَشْكُوَانِ، فَجَعَلَ يُغْلِظُ لَهُ وَلَا يَزِيدُهُ إِلَّا غِلْظَةً، وَالنَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ سَاكِتٌ، فَبَكَى عَمَّارٌ، فَقَالَ: يَا رَسُولَ اللهِ، أَلَا تَرَاهُ؟ قَالَ: فَرَفَعَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ رَأْسَهُ قَالَ: «مَنْ عَادَى عَمَّارًا عَادَاهُ اللهُ، وَمَنْ أَبْغَضَ عَمَّارًا أَبْغَضَهُ اللهُ» قَالَ خَالِدٌ: فَخَرَجْتُ، فَمَا كَانَ شَيْءٌ أَحَبَّ إِلَيَّ مِنْ رِضَى عَمَّارٍ، فَلَقِيتُهُ فَرَضِيَ ". اللَّفْظُ لِأَحْمَدَ

 

 

 

Told us Ahmad bin Sulyima'an said: Told us Yaze'd Bin Haroon, said: Told us Al-Aw'a'm, from Salmah bin Kuh'ail, from Aqlamah, from Khalid bin Wal'eed said: "Between me and Ammar bin Yasser a conversation/saying, so I was rude to him in the saying, so Ammar went off to complain to the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s), so Khalid and Ammar came complaining, so he (Khalid) continued to swear (rude) on him, and does not add more expect swearing (rude), and the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) silent, so Ammar cried and said: "O messenger of Allah, do you not see him?" So the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) raised his head and said: "Who opposes Ammar, Opposes Allah, and Who hates Ammar, Hates Allah.", Said Khalid: So I went out, and there was nothing more loved to me than the satisfaction of Ammar, So I met with him and was satisfied (With Khaild)."

 

 

 

Grading: All narrators are Thiqah, and the Chain is Authentic. On the same page: Here is another Authentic Chain: 

 

 

 

أَخْبَرَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ أَبَانَ قَالَ: حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ قَالَ: أَخْبَرَنَا الْعَوَّامُ، عَنْ سَلَمَةَ بْنِ كُهَيْلٍ.

 

  

Told us Muhammad bin Ab'an said: Told us Yaze'd (bin Haroon) said: Told us Al-Awama, From Salmah bin Kuh'ail.

 

 

 

 

 

post-83202-0-70816100-1410349034_thumb.jpost-83202-0-28204800-1410348968_thumb.jpost-83202-0-55619300-1410348929_thumb.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

 

Update: The First Reference mentioned: Al-Bida'ayah Wa Al-Nhia'yah (البداية والنهاية) by Ibn Katheer, in the footnotes of the narration, the annotator states, that he could not find a chain from that path, so he mentioned the Path that is mentioned in Mus'anad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, which is Authentic, and also the one which we mentioned above (Al-Nisa'i).

 

_________________________

(wasalam)

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We read in "Al-Mustadrak Ala, Al-Sah'ehain (المستدرك على الصحيحين), By Al-Hakim Al-Nasab'uri (أبو عبد الله الحاكم محمد بن عبد الله بن محمد بن حمدويه بن نُعيم بن الحكم الضبي الطهماني النيسابوري), Investigated by Mus'tafa' Abdull'Qader, Att'ah (مصطفى عبد القادر عطا). Association: Da'ar Al-Kutub Al-Ilmiyah (دار الكتب العلمية), Beirut (بيروت), First print: 1990, 1411, Hijrah, volume 3, page 439, Narration #5670: 

 

 

 

أَخْبَرَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ صَالِحٍ، ثَنَا السَّرِيُّ بْنُ خُزَيْمَةَ، ثَنَا عُمَرُ بْنُ حَفْصِ بْنِ غِيَاثٍ، ثَنَا أَبِي، عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عُبَيْدِ اللَّهِ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ شَدَّادٍ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ يَزِيدَ، عَنِ الْأَشْتَرِ، قَالَ: سَمِعْتُ خَالِدَ بْنَ الْوَلِيدِ يَقُولُ: بَعَثَنِي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فِي سَرِيَّةٍ وَمَعِي عَمَّارُ بْنُ يَاسِرٍ، فَأَصَبْنَا نَاسًا مِنْهُمْ أَهْلُ بَيْتٍ قَدْ ذَكَرُوا الْإِسْلَامَ، فَقَالَ عَمَّارٌ: إِنَّ هَؤُلَاءِ قَدْ وَحَّدُوا، فَلَمْ أَلْتَفِتْ إِلَى قَوْلِهِ، فَأَصَابَهُمْ مَا أَصَابَ النَّاسَ، قَالَ: فَجَعَلَ عَمَّارٌ يَتَوَعَّدُنِي لَوْ قَدْ رَأَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَأَخْبَرْتُهُ، فَأَتَى النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَأَخْبَرَهُ، فَلَمَّا رَآهُ لَا يَنْصُرُهُ وَلَّى وَعَيْنَاهُ تَدْمَعَانِ، قَالَ: فَدَعَانِي، فَقَالَ: «يَا خَالِدُ لَا تَسُبَّ عَمَّارًا، فَإِنَّهُ مَنْ يَسُبَّ عَمَّارًا يَسُبَّهُ اللَّهُ، وَمَنْ يَبْغَضْ عَمَّارًا يَبْغَضْهُ اللَّهُ، وَمَنْ يُسَفِّهْ عَمَّارًا يُسَفِّهْهُ اللَّهُ» 
 

 

 

Told us Muhammad bin Sal'eh, Told us Al-Sir'i bin Huzaymah, Told us Umar bin Hafs bin Ghiyath, told us my father, from Al-Hassan bin Ubaid Allah, from Muhammad bin Shad'ad, from Abd Al-Rahman bin Yaz'ed, from Al-Ashtar, said: I heard Khalid ibn Walid saying: The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) sent me in secret and with me Ammar Bin Yasser, so we caught some people, from them some households who mentioned Islam, so said Ammar: "They have 'Wahadu (Meaning worship in only one: Monotheism)", So I did not pay attention to him, so they have been inflicted, by what inflicted the people, said: So Amm'ar threatened me: "If I saw the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) I would have told him", So the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) came and he told him, and when he saw him without a helper/guardian, and his eyes in tears so he said: "O Khaild, do not curse Ammar, whom curses Ammar, Allah curses him, and who hates Ammar, hates Allah, and whom depreciates Ammar, depreciates Allah"

 

 

 

 قَالَ خَالِدٌ: اسْتَغْفِرْ لِي يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ فَوَاللَّهِ مَا مَنَعَنِي أَنْ أُجِيبَهُ إِلَّا تَسْفِيهِي إِيَّاهُ، قَالَ خَالِدٌ: «وَمَا مِنْ شَيْءٍ أَخْوَفَ عِنْدِي مِنْ تَسْفِيهِي عَمَّارَ بْنَ يَاسِرٍ يَوْمَئِذٍ»

 

 

Said Khalid: "Seek forgiveness for me O Messenger of Allah, for By Allah, Nothing ceased me from answering him, expect by depreciation to him". Said Khalid: "And there is nothing more terrifying to me than deprecating Ammar bin Yasser."   

 

 

 

صَحِيحُ الْإِسْنَادِ، وَلَمْ يُخَرِّجَاهُ " وَهَكَذَا رَوَاهُ مَسْعُودُ بْنُ سَعْدٍ الْجُعْفِيُّ، وَمُحَمَّدُ بْنُ فُضَيْلِ بْنِ غَزْوَانَ، عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عُبَيْدِ اللَّهِ النَّخَعِيِّ، أَمَا حَدِيثُ مَسْعُودِ

بْنِ سَعْدٍ

 

Grading: Correct "Isn'a'ad' (Authentic), and that is how narrated it, Mas'ood bin Sa'ad Al-Jufi, and Muhammad Bin Fath'el bin Ghizwan, from Al-Hassan bin Ubaid Allah Al-Nakha'i, Narration of Mas'ood bin Saa'id 

 

 

 

 

 

Scanned from: Print: First 1997, Association Dar Al-Haramain, Volume 3, page 477,  narration #5737:
 

 

 

post-83202-0-63914200-1410354802_thumb.jpost-83202-0-30825400-1410354786_thumb.jpost-83202-0-31279900-1410354778_thumb.j
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


(bismillah)

 

Update: The First post on the topic, The last Fourth page (Scanned) uploaded for the reference "Al-Bidayah Wa Al-Nihaya", is wrong, here is the Correct Scan, Fourth page:


 

 

post-83202-0-61979400-1410355454_thumb.j

 

 

 

(wasalam)

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those who oppose Abu Bakr, curse him & do takfeer on him oppose Allah swt. 


Reason: qnstart.gif If you help him (Muhammad) not (it does not matter), for Allah did indeed help him when the disbelievers drove him out, the second of two, when they both [Muhammad and Abu Bakr] were in the cave, and he said to his companion [Abu Bakr]: "Be not sad (or afraid), surely Allah is with us." Then Allah sent down His calmness upon him, and strengthened him with forces which you saw not, and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowermost, while it was the Word of Allah that became the uppermost, and Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise." (At-Tawbah 9:40) qnend.gif

 

 

 

The Prophet saw said Allah is with US. So good luck to those who disown Abu Bakr when Allah swt is with him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those who oppose Abu Bakr, curse him & do takfeer on him oppose Allah swt. 

Reason: qnstart.gif If you help him (Muhammad) not (it does not matter), for Allah did indeed help him when the disbelievers drove him out, the second of two, when they both [Muhammad and Abu Bakr] were in the cave, and he said to his companion [Abu Bakr]: "Be not sad (or afraid), surely Allah is with us." Then Allah sent down His calmness upon him, and strengthened him with forces which you saw not, and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowermost, while it was the Word of Allah that became the uppermost, and Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise." (At-Tawbah 9:40) qnend.gif

 

 

 

The Prophet saw said Allah is with US. So good luck to those who disown Abu Bakr when Allah swt is with him.

 

 

(bismillah)

 

Relax, no one does Takfeer on anyone. 

 

I see, that since you are unable to refute the above traditions you are quoting a verse that is unrelated to the topic. A fallacy. First of all there is no narrations that states that those who Oppose Abu bakr or Ummar are going to hell. If you can, bring fourth such a statement from our books. Second, The reason of mentioning these narration is clear: Those who opposed Imam Ali (a.s) on the event if "Sufeen" are of the wrong path and have disobeyed the Quran, and the Orders of the Prophet (Peace be upon him). Allah is with all, Whom is in need of him, and in this case, Allah is with them in Protection, and in this it is "Generalized" and not "Specialized" for Abu bakr. The above Authentic traditions mentions the merit: "Whom Opposed Ammar". Now, according to your sect the belief in the Caliphate of he four is obligatory, and to believe in their choosing, therefore at the time, to give allegiance to them at the time, was obligatory on the Muslim, Nation. However many did not give allegiance, because they did not believe that such is worthy of, so they "Opposed" The allegiance to Abu bakr. Here we find, when reading your own literature, Ammar Ibn Yasser, Did not, and in "Fact" opposed to give allegiance to Abu bakr and Ummar. So according to your thinking, is he going to hell?

If your going to state: "No, He did give "Bay'ah", Will sorry, He didn't, And I have proven this earlier: in the following Post: (Here)  

 

 

___________________________________

(wasalam)  

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

Relax, no one does Takfeer on anyone.

I see, that since you are unable to refute the above traditions you are quoting a verse that is unrelated to the topic. A fallacy. First of all there is no narrations that states that those who Oppose Abu bakr or Ummar are going to hell. If you can, bring fourth such a statement from our books. Second, The reason of mentioning these narration is clear: Those who opposed Imam Ali (a.s) on the event if "Sufeen" are of the wrong path and have disobeyed the Quran, and the Orders of the Prophet (Peace be upon him). Allah is with all, Whom is in need of him, and in this case, Allah is with them in Protection, and in this it is "Generalized" and not "Specialized" for Abu bakr. The above Authentic traditions mentions the merit: "Whom Opposed Ammar". Now, according to your sect the belief in the Caliphate of he four is obligatory, and to believe in their choosing, therefore at the time, to give allegiance to them at the time, was obligatory on the Muslim, Nation. However many did not give allegiance, because they did not believe that such is worthy of, so they "Opposed" The allegiance to Abu bakr. Here we find, when reading your own literature, Ammar Ibn Yasser, Did not, and in "Fact" opposed to give allegiance to Abu bakr and Ummar. So according to your thinking, is he going to hell?

If your going to state: "No, He did give "Bay'ah", Will sorry, He didn't, And I have proven this earlier: in the following Post: (Here)

___________________________________

(wasalam)

1. Even imam Ali gave allegiance to Abu bakr why didn't ammar?? Was he more knowledgeable or more braver than imam Ali???

2. Let's say for example ammar did not swear allegiance to Abu bakr then why wasn't he outright killed or forced or tortured or whatever else imam Ali went through according to you??

3. Show me your literature where ammar did not swear allegiance with the book, page number, author, matn, and the chain of narrators

Edited by Wisdom007

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

 

 

May Allah guide us onto the straight path. Before I begin answering your questions (Wizdom007). Let me first elaborate on the reasons why I posted such a topic, as it seems "Invoker" has deviated from the topic, and you have steered that deviation more, leading us to to discuss the issue of "who gave allegiance to who". So, before tackling this misconception, which you took further, I will just clarify the reasons for posting this topic. First and foremost you should by now have grasped that the companions of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) known as Amm'ar Bin Yasser (عمار بن ياسر) is a very specialized companion. From the narrations, that are Authentic, it establishes the fact, that whom hates, curses, opposes, Amma'r, then he/she, has done this towards Allah. One may ask, why would the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) establish this? Did he not know, that he the companions will fight amongst themselves? Well, the reasons behind this is simply, the prophet (s.a.w.a.s) has shown clearly through many narrations, that those who oppose Imam Ali (a.s) have deviated from the religion. That is why I posted such on the topic: "Ten Promised", many narrations that shown: (1) Whom the Muslims fight among themselves, is Kufur (disbelief), which one side will act upon. (2) That Imam Ali (a.s) is always with Truth, and Truth is with Ali, and the Quran is with Ali at all times. (3) Those who fought Imam Ali (a.s) have committed an "Act" that is against the Prophet (s) and the orders of Allah. I have shown this in my last reply, at the topic: "Ten Promised". These narrations are all Authentic, and I have proven this, and disproven Mu'awiyah's Innocents and to show his atrocities. If you would like to object to these established facts, revise my posts at the topic: "Ten Promised", and you can write your objections there.

 

 

So, now that we have clarified this. Let us now turn to your inquires. You have stated the following:

 

  Even imam Ali gave allegiance to Abu bakr why didn't ammar?? Was he more knowledgeable or more braver than imam Ali?

 

 

 
 
So before I "fix" your question properly. Let us first establish the Position of Imam Ali (a.s) in the context if "Truth" and that truth will always surround his being, and so on. First will quote Authentic traditions, and then I will move on to show that Imam Ali (a.s) has never given an "Allegiance" to the Three caliphs, from the his birth to death. We now being my establishing, that Imam Ali (a.s) is the pure truth, and Ali and the Quran, are with each other inseparable. 
 
 
 
 
 
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
 
 
Narration # 1: Ali & the Quran.
 
 

We read in "Mustadrak Al-Hakim Ala Al-Saheehain (مستدرك الحاكم على الصحيحين)" By Muhaammad bin Abdulah Al-Hakim Al-Nisaburi (أبو عبد الله محمد بن عبد الله الحاكم النيسابوري), Investigated by Imam Shams Al-deen Al-Thahabi (تعليق الإمام الذهبي شمس الدين), volume 3, page 124 (old print), and page 145 (new print):

 


- أخبرنا أبو بكر محمد بن عبد الله الحفيد ثنا أحمد بن محمد بن نصر ثنا عمرو بن طلحة القناد الثقة المأمون ثنا علي بن هاشم بن البريد عن أبيه قال حدثني أبو سعيد التيمي عن أبي ثابت مولى أبي ذر قال : كنت مع علي رضي الله عنه يوم الجمل فلما رأيت عائشة واقفة دخلني بعض ما يدخل الناس فكشف الله عني ذلك عند صلاة الظهر فقاتلت مع أمير المؤمنين فلما فرغ ذهبت إلى المدينة فأتيت أم سلمة فقلت إني و الله ما جئت أسأل طعاما و لا شرابا و لكني مولى لأبي ذر فقالت مرحبا فقصصت عليها قصتي فقالت : أين كنت حين طارت القلوب مطائرها قلت : إلى حيث كشف الله ذلك عني عند زوال الشمس قال : أحسنت سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم يقول : علي مع القرآن و القرآن مع علي لن يتفرقا حتى يردا علي الحوض

 

 

Told us Abu bakr Muhammad bin ABdullah Al-Hafeed, told us Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Nasr, told us Amru bin Talha Al-Qana'ad The trusted Al-Ma'moon, told us Ali bin Hasim bin Al-Bareed, from his father said: told me Sa'eed Al-Teem'i from the father of Thabit the Mauwla Abu Thar said: I was with Imam Ali may Allah be pleased with him on the day of Jamal, so when I saw Aisha standing, something in my heart has entered of what enters some other people, so Allah relieved that from me in the prayer of the afternoon (Zuhr) so I fought with the prince of the faithfuls (Imam Ali) so When I had been free of time, I went to Al-Madeenah so I cam to Um-Salamah: "By Allah I have not come for food nor drink, But I am a "Mawla" to Abi Thar" So she said: "Welcome". So I told her my story so she said: " Where were you when hearts aloft and flew"? I said: "Until Allah has relieved that from me at sun fall" (She Um-Salamah)said: " Welldone, I heard the messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) saying: "Ali is with the Quran and the Quran is with Ali, and they will not separate until they return to me at the lake."

 

 

Grading of the Narration: 

 

هذا حديث صحيح الإسناد و أبو سعيد التيمي هو عقيصاء ثقة مأمون و لم يخرجاه

 

This Narration is Authentic (Sahih) of the source, and Abu Sa'eed Al-Teem'i he is Uqaysa, Trusted and reliable

 

 

تعليق الذهبي قي التلخيص : صحيح

 

Shams Al-Deen Al-Thahabi says: "Authentic (Sahih)". Note: In Al-Mustadrak he Agreed with the narration without any objection.

 

 

  
________________________________________________________________________________________________________



 
 
Narration #2: Ali & the Qur'an.
 
 
We read in "Majm'ah Al-Zawa'id Wa Manbah Al-Fawa'id (مجمع الزاوئد ومنبع الفوائد)", by Nur Al-Deen, Ali bin Abi bakr Al-Haythami (نور الدين علي بن أبي بكر الهيثمي), Library: Al-Qudsi (مكتبة القدسي), Chapter of the "Caliphs", volume 5, page 186, Narration #8950:
 
 
 وعن أبي سعيد الخدري قال : سمعت رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - يقول : " إن منكم من يقاتل على تأويل القرآن كما قاتلت على تنزيله " . فقال أبو بكر : أنا هو يا رسول الله ؟ قال : " لا " . قال عمر : أنا هو يا رسول الله ؟ قال : " لا ولكنه خاصف النعل " . وكان أعطى عليا نعله يخصفها 
 
 
And from Abi Sa'eed Al-Khidri said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s): "From you, a man who will fight for the interpretation of the Qur'an, just as I have fought for its revelation." So said Abu bakr: Is it me O Messenger of Allah? He (s.a.w.a.s) said: "No". So said Umar: "Is it me O Messenger of Allah", He (s.a.w.a.s) said: "No, he is the one fixing the sandals". And then gave Ali his sandals to fix.
 
 
Al-Haythamni (الهيثمي), says:
 
رواه أبو يعلى ورجاله رجال الصحيح
 
Narrated it, Abu Ya'la'a, and its men are men authentic (Sahih).
 
 
 
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
 
 
 
 
 
Narration #3: Ali & the Qur'an
 
 
We read in "Majm'ah Al-Zawa'id Wa Manbah Al-Fawa'id (مجمع الزاوئد ومنبع الفوائد)", by Nur Al-Deen, Ali bin Abi bakr Al-Haythami (نور الدين علي بن أبي بكر الهيثمي), Library: Al-Qudsi (مكتبة القدسي), Chapter of of the merits of Ali bin Abi Talib (باب مناقب علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه) , volume 9, page 133, Narration #14763:
 
 
عن أبي سعيد قال : كنا جلوسا ننتظر رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - فخرج علينا من بعض بيوت نسائه قال : فقمنا معه فانقطعت نعله ، فتخلف عليها علي يخصفها ، ومضى رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - ومضينا معه ، ثم قام ينتظره وقمنا معه ، فقال : " إن منكم من يقاتل على تأويل هذا القرآن كما قاتلت على تنزيله " . فاستشرفنا وفينا أبو بكر وعمر ، فقال : " لا . ولكنه خاصف النعل " . قال : فجئنا نبشره قال : فكأنه قد سمعه . 
 
 
From Abi Sa'ad said: We were sitting waiting for the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s), so he came out to us from (some) of the houses of his women (wives) said: So we went with him, then his sandals broke, and then took care of it Ali, fixing it, so the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) proceeded, and we continued with him, then he stood up and we stood with him, then said: "Amongst you, (a man) who will fight on the interpretation of this Qur'an, just as I have fought for its revelation". so we observed and in us Abu bakr and Umar, so he (s.a.w.a.s.) said: "No, he is the fixer of the sandals". said: So we came to him to report to him said: As if he has heard him.
 
 
Al-Haythamni (الهيثمي), says:
 
 
واه أحمد ورجاله رجال الصحيح غير فطر بن خليفة وهو ثقة
 
 
Narrated it Ahmad, and its Man are Sahih (Authentic), expect Fitr'ah bin Khaleefah, and he is Trusted (Thiqah)
 
 
 
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
 
 
 
 
 
Narration # 4: Ali & The Qur'an
 
 
 
We read in "Sahih Ibn Habb'aan in the Organisation of Ibn Balba'an ( صحيح ابن حبان بترتيب ابن بلبان)", By Muhammad bin Habbaan Al-Bisti ( محمد بن حبان بن أحمد أبو حاتم التميمي البستي), Association Al-Ris'alah (مؤسسة الرسالة), Beirut. The second print (الطبعة الثانية), Y.1993, 1414 hijrah, Investigated by "Shu'aib Al-Arna'oot ( شعيب الأرنؤوط)", volume 15, page 385, narration # 6937: 
 
 
أخبرنا أحمد بن علي بن المثنى حدثنا عثمان بن أبي شيبة حدثنا جرير عن الأعمش عن إسماعيل بن رجاء عن أبيه : عن أبي سعيد الخدري قال : سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم يقول : ( إن منكم من يقاتل على تأويل القرآن كما قاتلت على تنزيله ) قال أبو بكر : أنا هو يارسول الله ؟ قال : ( لا ) قال عمر : أنا هو يارسول الله ؟ قال : ( لا ولكن خاصف النعل ) قال : وكان أعطى عليا نعله يخصفه 
 
 
 
Told us Ahmad bin Ali bin Al-Mathn'a, Told us Uthman bin Abi Shaubah, Told us Jareer from Al-A'mash from Isma'eel bin Rij'aa, from his father: From Abi Sa'ad Al-Khidri said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) saying: "Amongst you, (a man) who will fight on the interpretation of this Qur'an, just as I have fought for its revelation", So said Abu bakr: "Is it me O Messenger of Allah?", He (s.a.w.a.s) said: "No". So said Umar: "Is it me O Messenger of Allah?", So he (s.a.w.as) said: " No, he is the fixer of the Sandal". said: And he gave Ali his Sandal to fix. 
 
 
Shu'ai'yb Al-Arna'oot (قال شعيب الأرنؤوط), says:
 
 
إسناده صحيح على شرط مسلم
 
An Authentic (Sahih), On the guidelines of Mu'slim (Sahih).
 
 
 
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
 
 
 
 
 
Narration #5: Ali & The Truth
 
 
 
We read in "Majmah Al-Zawa'id Wa Al-Fawa'id (مجمع الزاوئد ومنبع الفوائد)" by Al-Haythami (نور الدين علي بن أبي بكر الهيثمي), Print: Library of Al-Muqadasa (مكتبة القدسي), volume 7, page 234 to 235: Narration 12027: 

 


 وعن أبي سعيد - يعني الخدري - قال : كنا عند بيت النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - في نفر من المهاجرين والأنصار ، فقال : " ألا أخبركم بخياركم ؟  قالوا : بلى . قال : " خياركم الموفون المطيبون ، إن الله يحب الحفي  التقي " ، قال : ومر علي بن أبي طالب ، فقال : " الحق مع ذا الحق مع ذا

 

 
From The father of Sa'eed; Meaning: A;-Khadri said: We were in the house of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) with a group of Al-Muhajreen and the An'saa'r so he (The Prophet) said: "Shall I tell you of the best among you?" They said: "yes". He (prophet) said: The best of you is the is the faithful and nice (Kind hearted), Allah loves the barefoot devoted pious." And then Ali Bin Abi Talib passed by and (The prophet) said: "Truth is with thee, Truth is with thee."
 
 
رواه أبو يعلى ، ورجاله ثقات
Al-Haythami: Narrated it Abu Yalah, and its men are Trustworthy
 
 
 
 
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
 
 
 
 
 
Narration #6: Ali & The Truth
 
 
 
We read in "Mustadrak Al-Hakim Ala Al-Saheehain (مستدرك الحاكم على الصحيحين)" By Muhaammad bin Abdulah Al-Hakim Al-Nisaburi (أبو عبد الله محمد بن عبد الله الحاكم النيسابوري), Investigated by Imam Shams Al-deen Al-Thahabi (تعليق الإمام الذهبي شمس الدين), volume 3, page 140, Narration #4681:

 

 

 

 
خبرنا أبو أحمد محمد بن محمد الشيباني من أصل كتابه ثنا علي بن سعيد بن بشير الرازي بمصر ثنا الحسن بن حماد الحضرمي ثنا يحيى بن يعلي ثنا بسام الصيرفي عن الحسن بن عمرو الفقيمي عن معاوية بن ثعلبة عن أبي ذر رضي الله عنه قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم : من أطاعني فقد أطاع الله و من عصاني فقد عصي الله و من أطاع عليا فقد أطاعني و من عصي عليا فقد عصاني
 
 
 
Told is Abu Ahmad muhammad bin Muhammad Al-Shayb'ani from his original book, told us Ali bin Sa'eed bin Basheer Al-Razi in Masr, told us Al-Hassan bin Ham'd Al-Hathrami, told us Yahya bin Ya'laa, told us Basim Al-Sayrafi from Al-Hassan bin Amr'ru Al-Faqeemi from Mua'aiyah bin Tha'labah from Abi Thar (may Allah be pleased with him): Said the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him): "Who obeys me, has obeyed Allah, and who disobeys me, has disobeyed Allah, And who obeys Ali, has obeyed me, and who disobeys Ali, he has disobeyed me.
 
 
 
هذا حديث صحيح الإسناد و لم يخرجاه
Al-hakim Al-Nisaburi: This is an Authentic Source, and does not go out from it. 
 
 
تعليق الذهبي قي التلخيص : صحيح
 
Al-Dahabi in his "Takhlees": Authentic (Sahih).
 
 
 
Also, Read in page 149, Narration #4704, Which is also from an Authentic Chain:
 
 
حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب ثنا إبراهيم بن سليمان البرنسي ثنا محمد بن إسماعيل ثنا يحيى بن يعلى ثنا بسام الصيرفي عن الحسن بن عمرو الفقيمي عن معاوية بن ثعلبة عن أبي ذر رضي الله عنه قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم لعلي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه : من أطاعني فقد أطاع الله و من عصاني فقد عصى الله و من أطاعك فقد أطاعني و من عصاك فقد عصاني
 
 
 
Told us Abu Abbas Muhammad bin Yaqub, told us Ibrahim bin Sulayman Al-barnasi, told us Muhammad bin Isma'eel, told us Yah'ya bin Ya'ala, told us Basim Al-Safeer from Al-Hassan bin Amru Al-Faqeemi from Mu'awiyah bin Tha'labah from Abi Thar (May Allah be pleased with him): Said the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) Ali Ibn Ab'i Talib (Peace be upon him): "Who obeys me, has obeyed Allah, and who disobeys me, has disobeyed Allah, And who obeys Ali, has obeyed me, and who disobeys Ali, he has disobeyed me.
 
هذا حديث صحيح الإسناد و لم يخرجاه
 
 
Al-Hakim Al-Nisa'buri: This is an Authentic Source, and does not go out from it.
 
 
 
 
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
 
 
 
Narration #7: Ali & The Truth:
 
 
We read in "Tareekh Al-Dimashqi ( تاريخ مدينة دمشق وذكر فضلها وتسمية من حلها من الأماثل)" By Ibn Aska'akir Al-Dimishqi Al-Sha'fi (ابن عساكر الدمشقي الشافعي، أبي القاسم علي بن الحسن إبن هبة الله بن عبد الله), Died, 571. H, Investigated by Muh'ib Al-Deen Abi Sa'eed Amr bin Ghramah (محب الدين أبي سعيد عمر بن غرامة العمري), Association: Dar Al-Fiker (دار الفكر) Beirut., 1995. Volume 20, page 361, Narration #19567:
 
 
 
 أَخْبَرَنَا أَبُو الْحَسَنِ عَلِيُّ بْنُ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مَنْصُورٍ، أنا أَبُو الْحَسَنِ أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْوَاحِدِ بْنِ أَبِي الْحَدِيدِ، أنا جَدِّي أَبُو بَكْرٍ، أنا أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ بْنِ بِشْرٍ، نَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَلِيِّ بْنِ رَاشِدٍ الطَّبَرِيُّ، بِصُورَ، وَأَحْمَدُ بْنُ حَازِمِ بْنِ أَبِي غرزة الْكُوفِيُّ، قَالا: أنا أَبُو غَسَّانَ مَالِكُ بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، نَا سَهْلُ بْنُ شُعَيْبٍ النِّهْمِيُّ، عَنْ عُبَيْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْمَدِينِيِّ، قَالَ: حَجَّ مُعَاوِيَةُ بْنُ أَبِي سُفْيَانَ فَمَرَّ بِالْمَدِينَةِ، فَجَلَسَ فِي مَجْلِسٍ فِيهِ سَعْدُ بْنُ أَبِي وَقَّاصٍ، وَعَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ عُمَرَ، وَعَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ عَبَّاسٍ، فَالْتَفَتَ إِلَى عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، فَقَالَ: يَا أَبَا عَبَّاسٍ، إِنَّكَ لَمْ تَعْرِفْ حَقَّنَا مِنْ بَاطِلِ غَيْرِنَا، فَكُنْتَ عَلَيْنَا وَلَمْ تَكُنْ مَعَنَا، وَأَنَا ابْنُ عَمِّ الْمَقْتُولِ ظُلْمًا يَعْنِي عُثْمَانَ بْنَ عَفَّانَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ وَكُنْتُ أَحَقَّ بِهَذَا الأَمْرِ مِنْ غَيْرِي، فَقَالَ ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ: اللَّهُمَّ إِنْ كَانَ هَكَذَا فَهَذَا وَأَوْمَأَ إِلَى ابْنِ عُمَرَ أَحَقُّ بِهَا مِنْكَ، لأَنَّ أَبَاهُ قُتِلَ قَبْلَ ابْنِ عَمِّكَ، فَقَالَ مُعَاوِيَةُ: وَلا سَوَاءً، إِنَّ أَبَا هَذَا قَتَلَهُ الْمُشْرِكُونَ، وَابْنَ عَمِّي قَتَلَهُ الْمُسْلِمُونَ، فَقَالَ ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ: هُمْ وَاللَّهِ أَبْعَدُ لَكَ وَأَدْحَضُ لِحُجَّتِكَ، فَتَرَكَهُ وَأَقْبَلَ عَلَى سَعْدٍ، فَقَالَ: يَا أَبَا إِسْحَاقَ، أَنْتَ الَّذِي لَمْ تَعْرِفْ حَقَّنَا، وَجَلَسَ فَلَمْ يَكُنْ مَعَنَا وَلا عَلَيْنَا، قَالَ: فَقَالَ سَعْدٌ: إِنِّي رَأَيْتُ الدُّنْيَا قَدْ أَظْلَمَتْ، فَقُلْتُ لِبَعِيرِي: إِخْ، فَأَنَخْتُهَا حَتَّى انْكَشَفَتْ، قَالَ: فَقَالَ مُعَاوِيَةُ: لَقَدْ قَرَأْتُ مَا بَيْنَ اللَّوْحَيْنِ، مَا قَرَأْتُ فِي كِتَابِ اللَّهِ (ص): إِخْ، قَالَ: فَقَالَ سَعْدٌ: أَمَا إِذْ أَبَيْتَ، فَإِنِّي سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ (ص) يَقُولُ لِعَلِيٍّ: " أَنْتَ مَعَ الْحَقِّ وَالْحَقُّ مَعَكَ حَيْثُ مَا دَارَ "، قَالَ: فَقَالَ مُعَاوِيَةُ: لَتَأْتِيَنِّي عَلَى هَذَا بِبَيِّنَةٍ، قَالَ: فَقَالَ سَعْدٌ: هَذِهِ أُمُّ سَلَمَةَ تَشْهَدُ عَلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ (ص) فَقَامُوا جَمِيعًا فَدَخَلُوا عَلَى أُمِّ سَلَمَةَ، فَقَالُوا: يَا أُمَّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ، إِنَّ الأَكَاذِيبَ قَدْ كَثُرَتْ عَلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ (ص) وَهَذَا سَعْدٌ يَذْكُرُ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ (ص) مَا لَمْ نَسْمَعْهُ، أَنَّهُ قَالَ، يَعْنِي لِعَلِيٍّ: " أَنْتَ مَعَ الْحَقِّ وَالْحَقُّ مَعَكَ حَيْثُ مَا دَارَ فَقَالَتْ أُمُّ سَلَمَةَ: فِي بَيْتِي هَذَا قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ (ص) لِعَلِيٍّ، قَالَ: فَقَالَ مُعَاوِيَةُ لِسَعْدٍ: يَا أَبَا إِسْحَاقَ، مَا كُنْتُ أَلْوَمَ الآنَ إِذْ سَمِعْتَ هَذَا مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ (ص) وَجَلَسْتَ عَنْ عَلِيٍّ، لَوْ سَمِعْتُ هَذَا مِنْ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ (ص) لَكُنْتُ خَادِمًا لِعَلِيٍّ حَتَّى أَمُوتَ.
 
 
Told us Abu Al-Hassan Ali bin Ahmad bin Masnsoor, That Abu Al-hassan Ahmad bin Abd' Al-Wahid bin Hadeed, that his grandfather Abu bakr, (from) that Abu' Abdu'Allah Muhammad bin Yusuf bin Bashr, (From) that Muhammad bin Ali bin Rashid Al-Tabari Bas'or, and Ahmad bin Hazim bin Abi Ghirzah Al-kufi said: Me and Abu Ghassan Malik bin Isma'eel, told us Sahl bin Shu'aib Alnihm'i, from Ubaid Allah bin Abdullah Al-Mad'eeni said: Muwa'iyah bin Abi Sufiyan went to Hujj (pilgrimage), so he passed by "Madinah", so he sat in the gathering  place of Sa'ad bin Abi Waqqas, and Abdullah bin Umr, and Abdullah bin Abbas, so he turned to Abdullah bin Abbas and said: "O Aba Abbas, you do not know our right from our wronger, expect us, you were against us and not with us, and I am the the son of my uncle the murdered oppressed (meaning Uthman bin Affan) and I was more righteous on this issue than others". So said Ibn Abbas: "O Allah, if that was that, then he (pointed to Ibn Umrah) has more right for it, than you, because his fathers were killed before your son of uncle." Then said Muaw'iyah: "It is not the same, His fathers were killed by disbelievers, and Son of my uncle is killed by Muslims." So said Ibn Abbas: "By Allah, they are furthest from you, and invalid to your proof", So he left him, then he came to Sa'ad and said: "O father of Isahaaq, you are the one whom does not know him of our rights, and he sat, and was not with us, nor against us", said: so he said: "O Sa'ad I have seen the world become darker.", so I said to my camel: " e'kh", so he kept silent until it was reveled. Said: Said Muaw'iyah: "You have read what was between the revelations, I have not read this in the book of Allah (s), said: Said Sa'ad: "As I have (Aa'bait), For I heard the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) saying to Ali: "You are with truth, and Truth is with you were ever it surrounds." said: Said Mua'wiyah: "Do not come to me with this proof," Said: Said Sa'ad: "This is Um Salamah, Witnessing on the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s)." So they all stood up and entered on Um-Salamah, so they said: "O mother of the faithfuls, the lies have increased on the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) and that is what Sa'ad mentions from the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s.) what we have not heard telling to Ali: "You are with truth, and Truth is with you were ever it surrounds." So said Um Salamah: "In my house, that is what the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) said to Ali." Said: Said Muaw'iyah to Sa'ad: "O Aba Ish'aaq,I was not blameworthy now, If I heard the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) and sat from Ali, If I have heard from the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s), I would have been a servant to Ali, until I die."
 
 
 
Note: All narrators are "Thiqah" (trustworthy).
 
Grading: This narration, and all the narrators are "Thiqah (Trustworthy)", I won't bother stating a chain analysis because that is not main focus here on this topic, however If you object to one of the narrators, I can quote where in fact they are referred as "Trusted", for example, if you ask about the first narrator Abu Al-Hassan Ali bin Ahmad bin Masnsoor, He is Trusted by Ibn Asa'aker, and he says his "Trusted" in "Tareekh Al-Dimishaq ( تاريخ مدينة دمشق), volume 41, page 237, Number 4789).
 
 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
 
 
 
 
 
Narration #8: Ali & The Truth:
 
 
And we read in: "Sharh Nahjul-Balagha (شرح نهج البلاغة)" By Ibn Abi Al-Hadeed (لابن أبي الحديد), Investigated by Muhammad Abu Al-Fathl Ibrahim (محمد أبو الفضل إبراهيم), Volume 2 (الجزء الثاني), Association: "Dar Ihaya Al-Kutub Al-arabiyah (دار احياء الكتب العربية), Page 296:


Ibn Abi Al-Hadeed says:
 
 

 

 لأنه قد ثبت عنه في الأخبار الصحيحة أنه قال: (على مع الحق، والحق مع علي، يدور حيثما دار،) وقال له غير مرة: (حربك حربي وسلمك سلمى).
وهذا المذهب هو أعدل المذاهب عندي

 
Because, It has been established in the authentic reports that he (The Prophet (s.a.w.a.s)) said: "Ali is with the truth, and the Truth is with Ali, it surrounds around him where ever he surrounds (goes).", and he said it to him more than once: "You war is my war, and your peace is my peace", and this creed (belief), is the best creed with me..
 
 
 
 
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

 
 
Narration #9: Ali & The Truth:
 
We read in "Mustadrak Al-Hakim Ala Al-Saheehain (مستدرك الحاكم على الصحيحين)" By Muhaammad bin Abdulah Al-Hakim Al-Nisaburi (أبو عبد الله محمد بن عبد الله الحاكم النيسابوري), Investigated by Imam Shams Al-deen Al-Thahabi (تعليق الإمام الذهبي شمس الدين) prior to Mustafa Abd Al-Qader Att'aa (مصطفى عبد القادر عطا), Association: Dar Al-Kutub Al-Imiyah (دار الكتب العلمية), First print, 1990, volume 3, page 134, Narration #4629:

  
أَخْبَرَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ كَامِلٍ الْقَاضِي، ثنا أَبُو قِلَابَةَ، ثنا أَبُو عَتَّابٍ سَهْلُ بْنُ حَمَّادٍ، ثنا الْمُخْتَارُ بْنُ نَافِعٍ التَّمِيمِيُّ، ثنا أَبُو حَيَّانَ التَّيْمِيُّ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَلِيٍّ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ: «رَحِمَ اللَّهُ عَلِيًّا اللَّهُمَّ أَدِرِ الْحَقَّ مَعَهُ حَيْثُ دَارَ
 
Told us, Ahmad bin Kamal Al-Qathi, Told us Abu Qilab'ah, told us Abu A'taa'b Sahl'u bin Ham'ad, told us Al-Mukhta'ar bin Naf'ih Al-Tameemi', told us Abu Hay'an Tal-Tameemi, from his father, from Ali (a.s), that he said: Said the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s): "May Allah have mercy on Ali, O Allah, surround truth with him,  where ever ever he surrounds (goes)."
 
 
Said Al-Hakim Al-Nsaburi: 
 
هَذَا حَدِيثٌ صَحِيحٌ عَلَى شَرْطِ مُسْلِمٍ وَلَمْ يُخَرِّجَاهُ
This narration is Authentic (Sahih) on the guidelines of Muslim, and does not got out (from it).
 
مختار بن نافع ساقط
 
Comment of Al-Dahabi in Al-Takhless (التعليق - من تلخيص الذهبي): Al-Mukhta'ar bin Naf'ih Al-Tameemi', is "Saqit (dropped)".


My comment: I have quoted this narration to simply make evident of its presence as a "Correct Transmition", as the narration above that we have quoted before this narration, is Authentic, Where you have both witnesses: (1) Um Salamah, (2) Muaw'iyah, and (3) the other companions present in the gathering of Sa'ad, and for that narration all the narrators are correct. In this narration in Al-Hakim Al-Nisaburi book, yes, one of the narrators is weak, however the narration it self, is Sahih, in accordance to the previous, and Ibn Abi Hadeed, testifies this, as shown previously. So my stating this chain, I am not using the "Chain" mentioned as evidence, rather the narration as being frequently reported and transmitted among the people at that period of time.
 
 
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
 
Narration #10: The Ummah Will betray Imam Ali (a.s) After the Prophets (s.a.w.a.s):
 
 
We read in "Mustadrak Al-Hakim Ala Al-Saheehain (مستدرك الحاكم على الصحيحين)" By Muhaammad bin Abdulah Al-Hakim Al-Nisaburi (أبو عبد الله محمد بن عبد الله الحاكم النيسابوري), Investigated by Imam Shams Al-deen Al-Thahabi (تعليق الإمام الذهبي شمس الدين) prior to Mustafa Abd Al-Qader Att'aa (مصطفى عبد القادر عطا), Association: Dar Al-Kutub Al-Imiyah (دار الكتب العلمية), First print, 1990, volume 3, page 153, Narration #4686
 
 
 
عَنْ حَيَّانَ الْأَسَدِيِّ، سَمِعْتُ عَلِيًّا يَقُولُ: قَالَ لِي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ: «إِنَّ الْأُمَّةَ سَتَغْدِرُ بِكَ بَعْدِي، وَأَنْتَ تَعِيشُ عَلَى مِلَّتِي، وَتُقْتَلُ عَلَى سُنَّتِي، مَنْ أَحَبَّكَ أَحَبَّنِي، وَمَنْ أَبْغَضَكَ أَبْغَضَنِي، وَإِنَّ هَذِهِ سَتُخَضَّبُ مِنْ هَذَا» - يَعْنِي لِحْيَتَهُ مِنْ رَأْسِهِ
 
 
From Hay'an Al-Asady I heard Ali Saying: Said to me the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings upon him and his households): "The Nation will betray you after me, and you live on my creed, and be killed on my "Sunnah". Who loves you, loves me, and who hates you, hates me, "And this will be Painted from this" (meaning:  from head to your beard  you will be painted in blood).
 
صَحِيحٌ
Al-hakim Al-Nasburi says: Authentic (Sahih).
 
 
صحيح) التعليق - من تلخيص الذهبي)
Imam Al-Dahabi says in his "Takhlee's": Authentic (Sahih)
 
 
 
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
 
 
 
Narration #11: The Ummah Will betray Imam Ali (a.s) After the Prophets (s.a.w.a.s):
 
 
We read in "Mustadrak Al-Hakim Ala Al-Saheehain (مستدرك الحاكم على الصحيحين)" By Muhaammad bin Abdulah Al-Hakim Al-Nisaburi (أبو عبد الله محمد بن عبد الله الحاكم النيسابوري), Investigated by Imam Shams Al-deen Al-Thahabi (تعليق الإمام الذهبي شمس الدين) prior to Mustafa Abd Al-Qader Att'aa (مصطفى عبد القادر عطا), Association: Dar Al-Kutub Al-Imiyah (دار الكتب العلمية), First print, 1990, volume 3, page 150, Narration #4676
 
 
حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو حَفْصٍ عُمَرُ بْنُ أَحْمَدَ الْجُمَحِيُّ، بِمَكَّةَ، ثنا عَلِيُّ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْعَزِيزِ، ثنا عَمْرُو بْنُ عَوْنٍ، ثنا هُشَيْمٌ، عَنْ إِسْمَاعِيلَ بْنِ سَالِمٍ، عَنْ أَبِي إِدْرِيسَ الْأَوْدِيِّ، عَنْ عَلِيٍّ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ: " إِنَّ مِمَّا عَهِدَ إِلَيَّ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ: أَنَّ الْأُمَّةَ سَتَغْدِرُ بِي بَعْدَهُ
 
 

Told us Abu'Hafs Umar bin Ahmad Al-Jamhi in Makka from Ali bin Abduall-Aziz from Umar'O bin U'on from Hashi'eem from Isma'il bin Salim, from Abi' Idr'us Al'Awdi from Ali Said: "From the promises given to me by the Prophet (peace be upon him and his Households), that the Nation will betray me after him."

 

 

هذا حديث صحيح الإسناد و لم يخرجاه

Mustadrak Al-Hakim: This is An Authentic Chain.

  تعليق الذهبي قي التلخيص : صحيح

Imam Al-Dhahabi: Authentic (Sahih)

 
 
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
 
 
Narration #12: The Ummah Will betray Imam Ali (a.s) After the Prophets (s.a.w.a.s): The Great Struggle:
 
 
أَخْبَرَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ سَهْلٍ الْفَقِيهُ، بِبُخَارَى، ثنا سَهْلُ بْنُ الْمُتَوَكِّلِ، ثنا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ يُونُسَ، ثنا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ فُضَيْلٍ، عَنْ أَبِي حَيَّانَ التَّيْمِيِّ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ جُبَيْرٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا قَالَ: قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لِعَلِيٍّ: «أَمَا إِنَّكَ سَتَلْقَى بَعْدِي جَهْدًا» قَالَ: فِي سَلَامَةٍ مِنْ دِينِي؟ قَالَ: «فِي سَلَامَةٍ مِنْ دِينِكَ»
 
 
Told us Ahmad bin Sahl Alfaqeh'u, in Bukhari, told us Sahl bin Al-mutawakil, told us Ahmad bin Yunus, told us muhammad bin Fatheel, from Abi Hay'aan Al-Tameem'i, from Sa'ad bin Jubair, from Ibn Abbas (May Allah be pleased with him), Said the Prophet (peace be upon him said) said to Ali: "You shall face after me a Great Struggle" Said (Ali .a): "In the peace of my religion"? Said (the prophet (s)): "In the peace of your religion".
 
 هَذَا حَدِيثٌ صَحِيحٌ عَلَى شَرْطِ الشَّيْخَيْنِ، وَلَمْ يُخَرِّجَاهُ
 

Al-Hakim Al-Nisaburi: This narration is Authentic on the Guidelines of "Shaykhain (Bukhari & Muslim).

 

تعليق الذهبي قي التلخيص : على شرط البخاري ومسلم

 

The comment of Al-Dahabi In his Takhlee's: (Authentic) on the Guidelines of Bukhari & Muslim.

 

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

 

Narration #13: The Ummah Will betray Imam Ali (a.s) After the Prophets (s.a.w.a.s):

 

 

We read in "Al-Matalib Al-A'liyah B'Zawa'id Al-Masaneed Al-Thamaniyah (لمطالب العالية بزوائد المسانيد الثمانية)", By Ahmad bin Ali bin Hijir Al-Askalani ( أحمد بن علي بن حجر العسقلاني), Investigated by Habib Al-Rahman Al-Athamni (حبيب الرحمن الأعظمي), volume four, The First print  (الطبعة الأولى) page 56, Narration #3946:

 

 

سمعت ثعلبة بن يزيد ، قال : سمعت عليا ، يقول : والله إنه لعهد النبي الأمي صلى الله عليه وسلم : « سيغدرونك من بعدي

 

I heard Tha'labah bin Yaz'id: I heard Ali, Saying: "By Allah, it is the promise of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) Al-Um'i: "They will betray you after me."

 

عن ثعلبة بن يزيد الحماني ، عن أبيه ، قال : سمعت علياًً يقول على المنبر : والله إنه لعهد النبي الأمي إلي : إن هذه الأمة ستغدر بي.

 

From Tha'labah bin Yaz'ed Al-Hamani, from his father, said: I heard Ali saying while on the pulpit: "By Allah it is the promise of the Prophet Al-Ummi (s.a.w.a.s) to me: "This nation will betray you after me."

 

 

Footnotes: Said Al-Busairi, narrated it, Ibn Abi Shay'bah with a Hassan (Reliable) chain. Al-Harth And Al-bazar.

 

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(bismillah)

 

So what can we conclude from these authentic traditions and reports? First of all, in the first narration, as stated: "Ali is with the Quran and the Quran is with Ali" (Authentic), that is he (Ali a.s) who the quran sides by at "All times" and he Imam Ali (a.s) sides with the Quran at all times, and in all actions. Meaning whatever action taken or speech given, his words of truth, as the "Qur'an" will be present with this sayings: meaning they are in complete agreement and alignment with the words of Allah in his book, this also takes us back to the narrations of Al-Thaqlain, which is were the Prophet (peace be upon him and his households) mentioned Ahlulbayt (a.s) alongside the Qur'an and affirms to hold on to them both. In this we can assure ourselves, that whatever authentic tradition and report from Ahlulbayt (a.s) is the pure truth that with no doubt will come into agreement with the words of Allah in his book. If so, is the reason, we can therefore claim that "Falsehood" cannot come out from their actions or words, as when we are to hold on to them, we cannot hold on to falsehood. The fifth narration, you find that the prophet (s.a.w.a.s) clarified, that Ali is always with the truth, and the truth is always with Ali (a.s). Reality holds us, as we see, for the prophet (s.a.w.a.s) to say such would mean, that Imam Ali (a.s) cannot claim any form of "Falsehood" nor stated any form of "Deviation", nor can we find this in his action, rather they are pure and best of options at all time, the Truth does not separate from him, can he (a.s) cannot separate from truth. Take for example: If the Imam said: "I thought, or I believe, or, I sought, or, I think, I assure, or, I act to, or By Allah, or By the Prophet (s), this only means that these forms are all pure in truth, and are righteous and some are commands which are from the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s). From narration two, to narration four, you fined the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) stating, that it is only Imam Ali (a.s) who will fight for the interpretation of the Qur'an, just as he has fought for its revelation, and Abu bakr and Umar acquired that it is they, but the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) stated no, and made clear that it was Imam Ali (a.s). What does this tell you? Well, It clearly identifies that it is he Imam Ali (a.s) who is knowledgeable about the Qur'an and its interpretation after the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s), than anyone else. It is he who preserved its true meaning (interpretation) and fought in the name of Allah for its preservation, and in such, we find that from our of all the companions, only he was the on chosen for such a position and he given this mission, and he, more knowledgeable than the rest after the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s). Truly he has fulfilled this. The rest of the narrations on this, are similar in form, which you already have observed. Third part of the narrations state (authentic), that the nation of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) will betray Imam Ali (a.s), and he will face a great struggle in the peace of his religion. As you can see, there is no doubt on this, due to the fact the amount of wars he went through after the prophets (s.a.w.a.s) death, and after the gathering, at his house, forcing him to give allegiance. So now to this point, its clear that he is more knowledgeable than any other after the prophet (s.a.w.a.s), and truth and the Qur'an are always in agreement with him, and he (a.s) is always in alignment with them. Now, let us proceed, on whether Imam Ali (a.s) did he ask for his rights? Or did he not? After stating that Imam Ali (a.s) is the pure truth and the guarding of the interpretation of the Quran, did Imam Ali (a.s) ask for his right? Did he most importantly claim his rights, when they wanted him to give allegiance? Did even give allegiance? yes or no? So, now we have two issues on our hands. (1) Did Imam Ali (a.s) ask/claim his rightful rights? (2) Did he give allegiance? I will answer the second part, and then the first will be last. 

 

 

First of all, it is record Authentic, that Imam Ali (a.s) did not pay allegiance and an instant, but after six months, after the martyrdom of his wife, Fatim'ah Al-Zahra (a.s). We will not quote Authentic traditions on this even. Please note: The Shi'a opinion is that a real allegiance never took place. When they attacked the house and dragged Amiral-Muminin(a.s) to the mosque, Abu Bakr touched the closed hand of Amiral-Muminin(a.s) and then they spread all over that he(a.s) pledged allegiance. 

 
That all was because he(a.s) found no helpers to fight against the usurpers, hence he(a.s) was left with no other choice but to avoid any further harm coming close to his family members and close associates. It was at this stage that the Imam (a.s) assessed the situation around him. The nascent Ummah was facing a troublesome time, new Muslims whose faith and understanding of Islam was not so firm, surrounded by the threat of the Byzantine Empire and the increasing fitnah of Musalimah the false Prophet, who had successfully converted hordes of tribes behind his sham claim. The situation was such that the Ummah was at risk of imploding. Had the Imam (a.s) sought to add a further dimension to the problems of the Ummah by leading an armed rebellion to oust those that had taken his rightful claim, the end result would have been utter bloodshed, which would not have painted a pretty picture of Islam for the up coming generations. Thus he(a.s) acted upon the will and covenant of the Prophet(saw) to not fight if he could not find enough supporters. 
 
 
__________________________________________________________________________________________________


We read in "Al-Kamal Fe Al-Tareekh (الكامل في التاريخ)", By Az' Al-deen Abu Al-hassan Ali, known as Ibn Al-Ath'eer (عز الدين أبو الحسن علي المعروف بابن الأثير), Investigated by Abu Al-Fid'ah Abdull-Qathi (أبو الفداء عبد الله القاضي), Association: "Dar Al-Kutub Al-Ilmiyah ( دار الكتب العلمية), volume 2, page 901-902: (He says): 
 
 
 
لما توفي رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - اجتمع الأنصار في سقيفة بني ساعدة ليبايعوا سعد بن عبادة ، فبلغ ذلك أبا بكر ، فأتاهم ومعه عمر وأبو عبيدة بن الجراح ، فقال : ما هذا ؟ فقالوا : منا أمير ، ومنكم أمير . فقال أبو بكر : منا الأمراء ، ومنكم الوزراء . ثم قال أبو بكر : قد رضيت لكم أحد هذين الرجلين عمر وأبي عبيدة أمين هذه الأمة . فقال عمر : أيكم يطيب نفسا أن يخلف قدمين قدمهما النبي - صلى الله عليه وسلم - ؟ فبايعه عمر وبايعه الناس . فقالت الأنصار أو بعض الأنصار : لا نبايع إلا عليا . قال : وتخلف علي ، وبنو هاشم ، والزبير ، وطلحة - عن البيعة . وقال الزبير : لا أغمد سيفا حتى يبايع علي . فقال عمر : خذوا سيفه واضربوا به الحجر ، ثم أتاهم عمر ، فأخذهم للبيعة . 
 
وقيل : لما سمع علي بيعة أبي بكر خرج في قميص ما عليه إزار ولا رداء عجلا ، حتى بايعه ، ثم استدعى إزاره ورداءه فتجلله . 
 
والصحيح : أن أمير المؤمنين ما بايع إلا بعد ستة أشهر . والله أعلم
 
 

 

 

 

When the Messenger of Allah (saw) died, the Ansar were assembled in the shed of Bani Sa'idah to pay allegiance to Sa'd bin Ubada. Then Abu Bakr was informed of it, so he, together with Umar and Abu Ubaidah Al-Jarrah went to them and said: "What is this?" They replied: "There should be one Amir from us and one from you." Then Abu Bakr said: "We are the rulers and you (Ansars) are the ministers (i.e. advisers)" and then said: "So you should elect either Umar or Abu Ubaidah Al-Jarrah who is Amin of this Ummah." Then Umar said: "Who is more good than a man whom the Prophet (saw) preceded him (over others)." And then he paid allegiance to Abu Bakr and the people paid allegiance too. Then the Ansar or some of the Ansar said: "We do not pay allegiance except to Ali (a.s)." It is said that Alee (a.s) and Banu Hashim and Al-Zubayr and Talha refused to pay allegiance and Al-Zubayr said: "I will not put down my sword until Alee (a.s) pays allegiance." Umar said: "Take his sword and hit it to the stone." Then Umar came and took them for allegiance, and it is said that when Alee (a.s) heard of the allegiance to Abu Bakr, he came out wearing a garment without his cloak and and hurried until he paid allegiance and then wore his cloak. But the correct story is that the Commander of Faithful Ali (a.s) did not pay allegiance until after six months. Allah knows best.

 

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

We read in "Sahih Al-Bukhari (صحيح البخاري)", By Muhammad bin Ism'ail Al-Bukhari Al-Jufi (محمد بن إسماعيل البخاري الجعفي) , association: Dar ibn Katheer (دار ابن كثير), In the Book: "Al-Maghazi (كتاب المغازي)", Section: Ghuzwat Khaibar (غزوة خيبر), Narration #3998: (English version: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 546): 

 

 

حدثنا يحيى بن بكير حدثنا الليث عن عقيل عن ابن شهاب عن عروة عن عائشة أن فاطمة عليها السلام بنت النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أرسلت إلى أبي بكر تسأله ميراثها من رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم مما أفاء الله عليه بالمدينة وفدك وما بقي من خمس خيبر فقال أبو بكر إن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال لا نورث ما تركنا صدقة إنما يأكل آل محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم في هذا المال وإني والله لا أغير شيئا من صدقة رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم عن حالها التي كان عليها في عهد رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ولأعملن فيها بما عمل به رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فأبى أبو بكر أن يدفع إلى فاطمة منها شيئا فوجدت فاطمة على أبي بكر في ذلك فهجرته فلم تكلمه حتى توفيت وعاشت بعد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ستة أشهر فلما توفيت دفنها زوجها علي ليلا ولم يؤذن بها أبا بكر وصلى عليها وكان لعلي من الناس وجه حياة فاطمة فلما توفيت استنكر علي وجوه الناس فالتمس مصالحة أبي بكر ومبايعته ولم يكن يبايع تلك الأشهر فأرسل إلى أبي بكر أن ائتنا ولا يأتنا أحد معك كراهية لمحضر عمر فقال عمر لا والله لا تدخل عليهم وحدك فقال أبو بكر وما عسيتهم أن يفعلوا بي والله لآتينهم فدخل عليهم أبو بكر فتشهد علي فقال إنا قد عرفنا فضلك وما أعطاك الله ولم ننفس عليك خيرا ساقه الله إليك ولكنك استبددت علينا بالأمر وكنا نرى لقرابتنا من رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم نصيبا حتى فاضت عينا
 

 

 

 

Narrated 'Aisha: Fatima the daughter of the Prophet sent someone to Abu Bakr (when he was a caliph), asking for her inheritance of what Allah's Apostle had left of the property bestowed on him by Allah from the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) in Medina, and Fadak, and what remained of the Khumus of the Khaibar booty. On that, Abu Bakr said, "Allah's Apostle said, "Our property is not inherited. Whatever we leave, is Sadaqa, but the family of (the Prophet) Muhammad can eat of this property.' By Allah, I will not make any change in the state of the Sadaqa of Allah's Apostle and will leave it as it was during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle, and will dispose of it as Allah's Apostle used to do." So Abu Bakr refused to give anything of that to Fatima. So she became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by himself. When Fatima was alive, the people used to respect 'Ali much, but after her death, 'Ali noticed a change in the people's attitude towards him. So Ali sought reconciliation with Abu Bakr and gave him an oath of allegiance. 'Ali had not given the oath of allegiance during those months (i.e. the period between the Prophet's death and Fatima's death).............
 

 

 

 

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Here a Question arises, that why is it, that Imam Ali (a.s) did not give allegiance in that period of time? It was only after they had attacked and gathered in his house, that he gave allegiance (and I will explain why), however we find there are zero narrations that Imam Ali (a.s) himself approached Abu bakr and Umar to give allegiance, rather it was they who had forced him to, after invading his house, and now we before I state the narrations, please tell me why Imam Ali (a.s) opposed to give allegiance to Abu bakr in the first place? It took them six months until they were able to convince him, why so? We have stated clear narrations that Imam Ali (a.s) is the truth and the Truth, Quran are around Imam Ali (a.s) where ever he surrounds, so when Imam Ali (a.s) "Opposed" to give allegiance to Abu bakr, and Umar, he was according to the Commands of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) and the words of Allah, because if such he was ignorant (Na'ozo-Bilah), why did he not pay allegiance straight away? we now begin to state the Authentic traditions on their attack and how they forced him into allegiance: (The Following are Authentic Traditions):


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

We read in "Ans'ab Al-Ashra'af (أنساب الأشراف), By Ahmad bin Yah'yah bin Jabir bin Dawud Al-Balathri (أحمد بن يحيى بن جابر بن داود البَلَاذُري), Investigated by Sah'eel Zak'ar and Riyath Al-Zarkali (سهيل زكار ورياض الزركلي) Died 279. H (Older than Bukhari , Association: Dar Al-Fikr (دار الفكر), First print (1996), volume 2, page 268:
 

 


 عَنْ الْمَدَائِنِيُّ ، عَنْ مَسْلَمَةَ بْنِ مُحَارِبٍ ، عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ التَّيْمِيِّ ، وَعَنِ ابْنِ عَوْنٍ ، أَنَّ أَبَا بَكْرٍ : " أَرْسَلَ إِلَى عَلِيٍّ يُرِيدُ الْبَيْعَةَ ، فَلَمْ يُبَايِعْ ، فَجَاءَ عُمَرُ ، وَمَعَهُ قَبَسٌ فَتَلَقَّتْهُ فَاطِمَةُ عَلَى الْبَابِ ، فَقَالَتْ فَاطِمَةُ : يَابْنَ الْخَطَّابِ ، أَتُرَاكَ مُحَرِّقًا عَلَيَّ بَابِي ؟ ، قَالَ : نَعَمْ ، وَذَلِكَ أَقْوَى فِيمَا جَاءَ بِهِ أَبُوكِ ، وَجَاءَ عَلِيٌّ ، فَبَايَعَ ، وَقَالَ : كُنْتُ عَزَمْتُ أَنْ لا أَخْرُجَ مِنْ مَنْزِلِي حَتَّى أَجْمَعَ الْقُرْآنَ " ،

 

 

 

Al-Mada'ini from Musalimah ibn Muharib from Sulayman Al-Timi and from ibn Awn that Abu Bakr requested Ali (a.s) to give allegiance (pledge), and Ali (a.s) did not answer the pledge (rejected), so Umar came with fire and Faatima (s.a) received them at the door, and Faatima (s.a) said : "O ibn Al-Khattab! Do you want to burn my door?" He said: "Yes and this is stronger in (terms of) following what your father came with (the religion of her father)." [Giving Ba'yah to Abu Bakr is following what the Prophet (saw) has recommended], and Ali (a.s) came and gave his pledge and said: "I was planning not leaving my home until I compile the Holy Qur'aan."

 

I will go over this briefly, since this is not our main focus, as I already mentioned, All what I put in this post is Authentic. 

 

narrators:
 

1. Al-Mada'ini: (trusted by Imam Al-Dahabi) Reference: Siyar A'lam Al-Nubala. Vol. 10, Pg. # 400 - 401, Person # 113
 
2. Musalimah ibn Muharib: (Trusted by Ibn Habban, Mentioned by Bukhari) Reference:  Al-Thuqat (Authenticated Ones). Vol.7.Pg.# 490
 
3 - Sulayman ibn Tarkhan: Trusted By Imam Al-Dahabi) Reference: Siyar A'lam Al-Nubala. Vol. 6, Pg. # 195 - 196, Person # 92.
 
4 - Ibn Awn (Trusted by Al-Safadi, and Imam Al-Dahabi) Reference: Siyar A'lam Al-Nubala. Vol. 6, Pg. # 365.

 

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Again I am going over the events very briefly to answer the misconception. Now, what did they do afterwards?

 

 

We read in "Tareekh Al-Tabari (تاريخ الطبري) By Muhammad bin Jareer Al-Tabari Abu Ja'afar (محمد بن جرير الطبري أبو جعفر), Investigated by Muhammad Abu Al-Fathal Ibrahim (محمد أبو الفضل إبراهيم), Association: Dar Al-Ma'arif (دار المعارف), volume 3, page 202, or page 443 (For the print of Beirut): 

 

 

حدثنا : إبن حميد قال : ، حدثنا : جرير ، عن مغيرة ، عن زياد بن كليب قال : أتى عمر بن الخطاب ، منزل علي وفيه طلحة والزبير ورجال

 

من المهاجرين فقال : واللّه لأحرقن عليكم أو لتخرجن إلى البيعة فخرج عليه الزبير ، مصلتا بالسيف فعثر فسقط السيف من يده فوثبوا عليه فأخذوه


Ibn Humayd narrated from Jarir narrated from Mughirah narrated from Ziyad b. Kulayb said: "Umar ibn Al-Khattab came to the house of Ali (a.s), Talha and Zubayr and some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out: "By God! Either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or I will set the house on fire!" Al-Zubayr came out with his sword drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand so they jumped over him and seized him."

 

Narrators:
 

1. Muhammad ibn Humayd (Trusted, and is taken from, by Ahmad bin Hanabal and others), Tarikh Al-Baghdad. Vol. 3, Pg. # 60 - 61.
2. Jarir ibn Abdul-Hamid (Trusted by Ibn Hijir), Tahreer Taqreeb Al-Tahdheeb. Vol. 1, Pg. # 213, Person # 916
3. Al-Mughirah ibn Miqsam: (Trusted by Ibn Hijir), Tahreer Taqreeb Al-Tahdheeb. Vol. 3, Pg. # 411, Person # 6851.
4 - Ziyad ibn Kulayb: (trusted by Ibn Hijir), Tahreer Taqreeb Al-Tahdheeb. Vol. 1, Pg. # 428. Person # 2096.
 
 
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
 
 
Now for the most, important, crucial point. Even if he was forced to give allegiance, Did he truly give an allegiance by Allah? The Answer is: By The Qur'an and the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) he never, even once, gave a true allegiance to Abu bakr by Allah and Qur'an. In fact, he never gave allegiance to the Caliphs for even one hour, in his life time, he never did. You might say why I say this. Because the books of the Muslims, the books of your scholars, the books of your most prominent scholars such as Muslim, of Ahlul-Sunnah, testify that the first Caliph Abu bakr, and the Second Caliph Umar, They were perpetrators,traitors and liars. And this exactly aligns with the authentic narrations that we have mentioned, were the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) stated that the Nation will betray Imam Ali (a.s) after him, and he will struggle in the peace of his religion. You say: Sahih Muslims says this? I say: Yes! Sahih Muslims says this.
 
 
 
We read in "Sahih Muslim (صحيح مسلم)" By Muslim bin Al-Hajj'aaj (مسلم بن الحجاج القشيري النيسابوري), Book: The Book of Jihad and Expeditions (كتاب الجهاد والسير), Chapter: Ruling on Fai' (باب حُكْمِ الْفَىْءِ ‏‏), page 1377-1379, Narration #49 (Under the chapter): There was a dispute between Imam Ali (a.s) and Ibn Abbas: and the he said After such:
 
 
وَحَدَّثَنِي عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَسْمَاءَ الضُّبَعِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا جُوَيْرِيَةُ، عَنْ مَالِكٍ، عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ، أَنَّ مَالِكَ بْنَ أَوْسٍ، حَدَّثَهُ قَالَ........... فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ أَنَا وَلِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَجِئْتُمَا تَطْلُبُ مِيرَاثَكَ مِنَ ابْنِ أَخِيكَ وَيَطْلُبُ هَذَا مِيرَاثَ امْرَأَتِهِ مِنْ أَبِيهَا فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ مَا نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ ‏"‏ ‏.‏ فَرَأَيْتُمَاهُ كَاذِبًا آثِمًا غَادِرًا خَائِنًا وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّهُ لَصَادِقٌ بَارٌّ رَاشِدٌ تَابِعٌ لِلْحَقِّ ثُمَّ تُوُفِّيَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَأَنَا وَلِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَوَلِيُّ أَبِي بَكْرٍ فَرَأَيْتُمَانِي كَاذِبًا آثِمًا غَادِرًا خَائِنًا وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنِّي لَصَادِقٌ بَارٌّ رَاشِدٌ تَابِعٌ لِلْحَقِّ
 
 
 
It is reported by Zuhri that this tradition was narrated to him by Malik b. Aus who said:......When the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) passed away, Abu Bakr said:" I am the successor of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s)." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.as) had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him (Abu bakr) to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and I have become (Umar) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that I am true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth......
 
 
post-83202-0-74612500-1410518485_thumb.jpost-83202-0-52326500-1410518325_thumb.j
post-83202-0-90203700-1410518400_thumb.jpost-83202-0-39582800-1410518434_thumb.j
 
 
So both Imam Ali (a.s) and Ibn Abbas though of Abu bakr an Umar ibn Al-Khattab, liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest, So I ask, now the Critical Question: Can the Imam Ali (a.s) who is the Guardian of the interpretation of the Quran, The person who the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) said: Truth is with thee, and truth and the Quran are with him, and he is to be obeyed, can he give allegiance to Abu bakr and Umar, who he though of them, liars, sinful, treacherous and dishonest!?!? I don't care what Umar said, that he is truthful and guided, that is his claim that he claims for himself, and here we are addressing the opinion of Imam Ali (a.s), who he thought of the two first caliphs as traitors, liars, and sinful. And if he gave a true allegiance to them, that would be an allegiance to hellfire. And that is why for the same reason why Ammar bin Yasser, would not give allegiance, how can he, if he was with the group of people who opposed the allegiance in the first place, and a strong follower of Imam Ali (a.s). Some may also argue irrespective of the time period, the Ba'yah was given which proves the Imam (a.s) submitted and did not fight for his right. This form of logic is incorrect also, because according to the principles of our opponents, the Imam (a.s) did not do anything wrong. They are multitude of narrations on the authority of the Prophet (saw) which forbade people from rising against tyrant leaders even if they were inherently against the Sunnah of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s).
 
 
 
 
We read in "Sahih Muslim (صحيح مسلم)" By Muslim bin Al-Hajj'aaj (مسلم بن الحجاج القشيري النيسابوري), The book of: "Alimar'ah ( كتاب الإمارة), Chapter: Obligatory holding the majority of Muslims in the time of "Fita'an" (باب وجوب ملازمة جماعة المسلمين عند ظهور الفتن), page, 772, narration #1847:
 
 
 
 وحدثني محمد بن سهل بن عسكر التميمي حدثنا يحيى بن حسان ح وحدثنا عبد الله بن عبد الرحمن الدارمي أخبرنا يحيى وهو ابن حسان حدثنا معاوية يعني ابن سلام حدثنا زيد بن سلام عن أبي سلام قال قال حذيفة بن اليمان  قلت يا رسول الله إنا كنا بشر فجاء الله بخير فنحن فيه فهل من وراء هذا الخير شر قال نعم قلت هل وراء ذلك الشر خير قال نعم قلت فهل وراء ذلك الخير شر قال نعم قلت كيف قال يكون بعدي أئمة لا يهتدون بهداي ولا يستنون بسنتي وسيقوم فيهم رجال قلوبهم قلوب الشياطين في جثمان إنس قال قلت كيف أصنع يا رسول الله إن أدركت ذلك قال تسمع وتطيع للأمير وإن ضرب ظهرك وأخذ مالك فاسمع وأطع 
 
 


It his been narrated through a different chain of transmitters, on the authority of Hudhaifa b. Al-Yaman who said: "Messenger of Allah, no doubt, we had an evil time (i. e. the days of Jahiliyya or ignorance) and God brought us a good time (i. e. Islamic period) through which we are now living. Will there be a bad time after this good time?" He (the Holy Prophet) said: "Yes." I said: "Will there be a good time after this bad time?" He said: "Yes." I said: "Will there be a bad time after good time?" He said: "Yes." I said: "How?" Whereupon he said: "There will be leaders who will not lead by my guidance and who will not adopt my ways. There will be among them men who will have the hearts of devils in the bodies of human beings." I said: "What should I do Messenger of Allah, if I (happen) to live in that time?" He replied: "You will listen to the Amir and carry out his orders; even if your back is flogged and your wealth is snatched, you should listen and obey."
 
 
 
Therefore, Imam Ali (a.s) did not commit any sin by not rising up against the tyrants of his time. Had the Imam (a.s) commited an act that violated the Prophet's (saw) teachings, it would have been a legitimate argument.According to the followers of the Ahlulbayt (a.s), if the Imam (a.s) rises, then it is by the Grace of Allah. But if the Imam (a.s) chooses not to, then this is at his discretion. It is entirely dependent on whether his rising would be more harmful than of benefit.
 
 
 
 
Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

 

We read in "Al-Saqeefah Wa Al-Fadak (السقيفة وفدك), By Ab'a bakr Ahmad bin Abd'all-Aziz Al-Jawharu Al-Basri (لأبي بكر أحمد بن عبدالعزيز الجوهري البصري البغدادي), Died year 323 Hijrah, Introduced and Investigated by Dr. Sheikeh Muhammad Hadi Al-ameeni (الدكتور الشيخ محمد هادي الأميني), page 90, with a correct Isna'aad:
 

 

 

قال عوانة: قال إسماعيل: قال الشعبي: فحدثني عبد الرحمن بن جندب، عن أبيه جندب بن عبد الله الأزدي، قال: كنت جالسا بالمدينة حيث بويع عثمان، فجئت فجلست إلى المقداد بن عمرو، فسمعته يقول:

 

Said: Awa'na: Said Isma'eel, Said: Al-Shuabi: told us Ab'd Al-Rahman Bin Jundm, from his father, Jundum bin Abdulah Al-Azdi said: I was sitting in Al-Madenah where Uthman was given allegiance, so I came and sat next to Al-Mida'd bin amru, So I heard him say:

 

 

 

والله ما رأيت مثل ما أتى إلى أهل هذا البيت، وكان عبد الرحمن بن عوف جالسا فقال: وما أنت وذاك يا مقداد، قال المقداد: إني والله أحبهم لحب رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله)، وإني لأعجب من قريش وتطاولهم على الناس بفضل رسول الله، ثم انتزاعهم سلطانه من أهله، قال عبد الرحمن:

 

 

 

"By Allah, I have never seen, just as what has come to this Ahlulbayt (a.s)." And Ab'd -Alrahman bin Awf was sitting and said: "And what is it with you O Miqda'd?", So Said Al-Miqda'd: "By Allah I love them for the love of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s), And I am not surprised from Quraish and their trespassing on the people, with the priority of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s), and then taking his authority from his households (a.s)". Said Abdull'Rahman:

 

أما والله لقد أجهدت نفسي لكم، قال المقداد: أما والله لقد تركت رجلا من الذين يأمرون بالحق وبه يعدلون، أما والله لو أن لي على قريش أعوانا لقاتلتهم قتالي إياهم ببدر، وأحد، فقال عبد الرحمن، ثكلتك أمك، لا يسمعن هذا الكلام الناس، فإني أخاف أن تكون صاحب فتنة وفرقة.

 

 

"By Allah I have tired my self for you". said Al-Miqda'd: "By Allah, you have left a man whom is from those who order righteousness, with him they become Just (Justice). By Allah If I had on Quryash Supporters to fight them, my fight with them is that of Badr, one." So said Abdull'Rahman: "May your bother deprive of you, The people do not hear this, for I am afraid that you are a person of Fintah and groupings".

 

 

قال المقداد: إن من دعا إلى الحق وأهله وولاة الأمر لا يكون صاحب فتنة، ولكن من أقحم الناس في الباطل، وآثر الهوى على الحق، فذلك صاحب الفتنة والفرقة. قال: فتريد وجه عبد الرحمن، ثم قال: لو أعلم أنك إياي تعني لكان لي ولك شأن. قال المقداد: إياي تهدد يا ابن أم عبد الرحمن، ثم قام عن عبد الرحمن فانصرف.

 

 

Said Al-Miqd'ad: "Whom invites to Justice, and its people, and the obedient to rulers, is not a person of Fint'ah, but he is the most piercing of the people in injustice,  and (whom) favors his desire over righteousness, for he is the person of Fitn'ah and groupings". Said: So you want the face of Abdull'-Rahman, Then said: "If I knew that you meant me, between me and you there would have been an issue." Said Al-Miqd'ad: "Do you threaten me O Ibn Um Abdull'Rhaman?" Then he (Al-Miqd'ad) left from Abdull'Rahman and And went. 

 

 

قال جندب بن عبد الله: فاتبعته وقلت له: يا عبد الله، أنا من أعوانك، فقال: رحمك الله، إن هذا الأمر لا يغني فيه الرجلان ولا الثلاثة، قال: فدخلت من فوري ذلك على علي (عليه السلام)، فلما جلست إليه قلت: يا أبا الحسن، والله ما أصاب قومك بصرف هذا الأمر عنك، فقال: صبر جميل والله المستعان

 

 

Said Jun'thub bin Abdullah: So I followed him and said: "O Servant of Allah, I am of your supporters", So he (Al-Miqd'ad) said: "May Allah have mercy on you, this issue, does not satisfy with two men or three." said: So I entered straight away to Imam Ali (a.s), so when I sad in opposite to him and said: "O father of Hassan, By Allah what has inflected your nation, with taking this issue from you." So he said: "Patients is pleasant, and Allah is the helper." .

 

 

فقلت: والله إنك لصبور، قال: فإن لم أصبر فماذا أصنع، قلت: إني جلست إلى المقداد بن عمرو آنفا، وعبد الرحمن بن عوف، فقالا كذا وكذا، ثم قام المقداد فاتبعته، فقلت له كذا، فقال لي كذا، فقال علي (عليه السلام)، لقد صدق المقداد فما أصنع، فقلت: تقوم في الناس فتدعوهم إلى نفسك، وتخبرهم أنك أولى بالنبي (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)، وتسألهم النصر على هؤلاء المتظاهرين عليك، فإن أجابك عشرة من مائة شددت بهم على الباقين، فإن دانوا لك فذاك، وإلا قاتلتهم وكنت أولى بالعذر، قتلت أو بقيت، وكنت أعلى عند الله حجة.

 

 

So I said: By Allah you are patient. So he (a.s) said: "I was not patient, what would I make?", So I said: "I sat next to Al-Miqd'ad bin Amru, and passed, and Abull'Rahman bin Awf, so he said: "That and that.", then Al-Miqd'ad stood up and left, so I followed him, so I said to him, "That", so he said to me "That". So said Imam Ali (a.s): "Miqd'ad has said the Truth, So what do I make?" So I said: "Stand up among the people and invite them to your self, and tell them that you are more entitled (Wali) to the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s), and ask them to triumph on these people who are protesting against you. If ten answered you from a hundred, make them serve on the others, and if they embraced (follow) you, then that. And if not, fight them, and you have more right on you claim, if you died or lived, you were higher in Allah, a testament. 

 

 

 

فقال: أترجوا يا جندب أن يبايعني من كل عشرة واحد، قلت: أرجو ذلك، قال: لكني لا أرجو ذلك، لا والله ولا من المائة واحد، وسأخبرك أن الناس إنما ينظرون إلى قريش فيقولون: هم قوم محمد وقبيله، وأما قريش بينها فتقول: إن آل محمد يرون لهم على الناس بنبوته فضلا، ويرون أنهم أولياء هذا الأمر دون قريش، ودون غيرهم من الناس، وهم إن ولوه لم يخرج السلطان منهم إلى أحد أبدا، ومتى كان في غيرهم تداولته قريش بينها، لا والله لا يدفع الناس إلينا هذا الأمر طائعين أبدا.

 

 

 

So he (a.s) said: "Do you wish O, Jun'thub from each ten to, one to give me Allegiance ?", I said: "I wish for that". He (a.s) said: "But I do not wish for such, No By Allah, and not by the hundreds one, and I will tell you that the people look at Quryash and say: "They are the nation of Muhammad and his tribe". And as for Quryash, between them they will say: "the Households of Muhammad see themselves over the people with the his Prophethood as a merit, and they see them selves as the Awliya'a of this issue without Quryash" , and without them and others from the people, and if they gave it to, the ruler will not come out of them at all, and (at all times) when Quryash in others, spreading it between them (Quryash), No By Allah, this does not push the people towards us, obedient, at all. 

 

 

قلت: جعلت فداك يا ابن عم رسول الله، لقد صدعت قلبي بهذا القول، أفلا أرجع إلى المصر، فؤذن الناس بمقالتك، وأدعو الناس إليك، فقال: يا جندب ليس هذا زمان ذاك.

 

I said: "May I be sacrificed for you, O Son of uncle of the Messenger of Allah, you have fractured my heart with this saying, should return to Egypt, and allow the people with your speech, and invite the people to you?" So he (a.s) said: "O Jun'thub this is, not for that time.".

 

 

 قال: فانصرفت إلى العراق فكنت أذكر فضل علي على الناس، فلا أعدم رجلا يقول لي ما أكره، وأحسن ما أسمعه قول من يقول: دع عنك هذا وخذ فيما ينفعك، فأقول: إن هذا مما ينفعني وينفعك، فيقوم عني ويدعني.

 

 

Said: "So I left to Iraq, and I was mentioning the merits of Ali on the people, and do not deprive of such, saying to me what I hate, and better, what I listen, the saying of whom says: "Leave that from you, and take what benefits you.", So I say: "This is what benefits me, and benefits you, then stands from me and leaves me.

 

 

 

حتى رفع ذلك من قولي إلى الوليد بن عقبة، أيام ولينا، فبعث إلي فحبسني حتى كلم في، فخلى سبيلي.

 

 

 

Until, that raised from my saying to Al-Wal'eed bin Uqb'ah, on the days of our Wali, so he sent to me, and imprisoned me, until he talked about me, and released me.

 

 

 ونادى عمار بن ياسر ذلك اليوم: يا معشر المسلمين، إنا قد كنا وما كنا نستطيع الكلام، قلة وذلة، فأعزنا الله بدينه، وأكرمنا برسوله، فالحمد لله رب العالمين، يا معشر قريش، إلى متى تصرفون هذا الأمر عن أهل بيت نبيكم، تحولونه هنا هنا مرة، وها هنا مرة، وما أنا آمن أن ينزعه الله منكم، ويضعه في غيركم، كما نزعتموه من أهله، ووضعتموه في غير أهله.

 

 

Ammar ibn Yasser Shouted on that day: "O thousands of Muslims, if we were able to, and we were not able to say. decreased and humiliated, so Allah has blessed us with his Messenger (s), so thanks to Allah, Rab-Al-alameen (God of all the worlds). O Thousands of Quraysh, until when are you going to take this position from the households of the prophet, you transfer it here once, and there another!, I do not doubt that Allah will remove it from you and place it in someone other, just as you have taken it from those who were rightful for it, and placed it in those who had not right for it!"

 

 

فقال له هاشم بن الوليد بن المغيرة: يا ابن سمية، لقد عدوت طورك وما عرفت قدرك، ما أنت وما رأت قريش لأنفسها، إنك لست في شئ من أمرها وإمارتها فتنح عنها.

 

So said to Him, Hashim: Bin Al-Wal-eed Bin Al-Mugheerah: "O Son of Samiyah, you have went over your bounds, and do not know your worth, what are you and what Quryash has seen for it self, you have nothing to do with it, and its authority leave it.

 

 

 

 وتكلمت قريش بأجمعها، فصاحوا بعمار وانتهروه، فقال: الحمد لله رب العالمين، ما زال أعوان الحق أذلاء، ثم قام فانصرف.

 

 

 

And Quryash talked, all of them, so they yelled at Ammar and rebuked him, So he said: "Thanks to Allah the God of All worlds, the people of justice are still disgraced.". Then he went.

 

 

 

 

post-83202-0-69901200-1410530503_thumb.j post-83202-0-61336400-1410530381_thumb.j                                  

post-83202-0-38002900-1410530387_thumb.jpost-83202-0-75320300-1410530393_thumb.j

 

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


We read in "Al-Riy'ath Al-Nithr'a Fe Mana'qib Al-Ashr'ah ( الرياض النضرة في مناقب العشرة)" By Ahmad bin Abdull'ah Bin Muhammad Abu Ja'far, Al-Tabari (الطبري، أحمد بن عبد الله بن محمد أبو جعفر), died 694. Hijrah (متوفاي694ه), Investigated By Is'aa Ab'd'Allah Muhammad Man'h Al-Ham'eeri ( عيسى عبد الله محمد مانع الحميري), Association: Dar-Al-gharb Al-Islami (دار الغرب الإسلامي) Beirut, First print (1996), volume #2, page 214:

 

 

 قال ابن شهاب وغضب رجال من المهاجرين في بيعة أبي بكر منهم علي بن أبي طالب والزبير فدخلا بيت فاطمة معهما السلاح فجاءهما عمر بن الخطاب في عصابة من المسلمين منهم أسيد بن حضير وسلمة بن سلامة بن وقش وهما من بني عبد الأشهل ويقال منهم ثابت بن قيس بن شماس من بني الخزرج فأخذ أحدهم سيف الزبير فضرب به الحجر حتى كسره ويقال إنه كان فيهم عبد الرحمن بن عوف ومحمد بن مسلمة وإن محمد بن مسلمة هو الذي كسر سيف الزبير والله أعلم خرجه موسى بن عقبة وهذا محمول على تقدير صحته على تسكين نار الفتنة وإغماد سيفها لا على قصد إهانة الزبير وتخلف عن بيعة أبي بكر يومئذ سعد بن عبادة في طائفة من الخزرج وعلي بن أبي طالب وابناه والعباس عم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وبنوه في بني هاشم والزبير وطلحة وسلمان وعمار وأبو ذر والمقداد وغيرهم من المهاجرين وخالد بن سعيد بن العاص

 

 

 

Said: Ibn Shu'h'ab (محمد بن شهاب الزهري):........ And opposed the "Bay'ah" of Abu bakr in that day, Sa'ad bin Ub'adah in a group of Al-Khazr'aj, and Ali bin Abi Talib, and his sons, and Al-Abbas, the uncle of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s), and his children in Bani Hashim, and Al-Zubair and Talha, and Salman, and Ammar, and Abu, Thar, and Al-Miqd'aad, and others from Al-Muhajreen, an Khalid bin Sa'eed bin Al-Aa'as.

 

  

 

post-83202-0-48396400-1410532369_thumb.jpost-83202-0-07391700-1410532380_thumb.j

post-83202-0-32831400-1410532365_thumb.jpost-83202-0-47443000-1410532367_thumb.j

 

 

 

 

Note: Ibn Shihab al-Zuhri is regarded as one of the greatest Sunni authorities on Hadith. The leading critics of Hadith such as Ibn al-Madini, Ibn Hibban, Abu Hatim, Al-Dhahabi and Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani are all agreed upon his indisputable authority. 

 

You might want to read in Bibliography: (link)

post-83202-0-32831400-1410532365_thumb.j

post-83202-0-47443000-1410532367_thumb.j

post-83202-0-48396400-1410532369_thumb.j

post-83202-0-07391700-1410532380_thumb.j

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

 

Sadly, The doctrine of the Umawiyeen, try to portrait Imam Ali (a.s), as if he has never claimed his rights, or had never sough out his positions of being the "Wali" of every Muslim believer. And there are weak and fabricates that derive from that Doctrine. However Imam Ali (a.s) has always claimed his right and the truth that the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) has established by the command of Allah (Aza'Wa'Jal). We not quote from Nahjul-Balagha.

 

 

 

We read in "Nahjul-Balagha (نهج البلاغة),", Sharh Al-Ust'ath Sheikh Muhammad Abd'ah ( الاستاذ محمد عبده), Association: Dar-Al-Marifa (دار المعرفة للطباعة والنشر), volume 1, sermon two, (After the time of Uthman), His speech, after he left from Suff'een (ومن خطبة له ( عليه السلام) بعد انصرافه من صفين), page #30:

 

 

 

 

لا يُقَاسُ بِآلِ مُحَمَّد (عليهم السلام) مِنْ هذِهِ الاُمَّةِ أَحَدٌ، وَلا يُسَوَّى بِهِمْ مَنْ جَرَتْ نِعْمَتُهُمْ عَلَيْهِ أبَداً.هُمْ أَسَاسُ الدِّينِ، وَعِمَادُ اليَقِينِ، إِلَيْهمْ يَفِيءُ الغَالي، وَبِهِمْ يَلْحَقُ التَّالي، وَلَهُمْ خَصَائِصُ حَقِّ الوِلايَةِ، وَفِيهِمُ الوَصِيَّةُ وَالوِرَاثَةُ، الاْنَ إِذْ رَجَعَ الحَقُّ إِلَى أَهْلِهِ، وَنُقِلَ إِلَى مُنْتَقَلِهِ.
 

 

 

None in the Islamic community can be taken at par with the Progeny of the Prophet (Ali Muhammad). One who was under their obligation cannot be matched with them. They are the foundation of religion and pillar of Belief. The forward runner has to turn back to them while the follower has to overtake them. They possess the chief characteristics for vicegerency. In their favour exists the will and succession (of the Prophet). This is the time when right has returned to its owner and diverted to its centre of return.

 

 

 

Note: This sermon took place after the time of Uthman, and after the War of Suffin, and you can see, Imam Ali (a.s) makes clear that Al-Wasiyah and An-Wilayah is for the Progeny of Al'e Muhammad, and it was previously taken as he said: "This is the time when right has returned to its owner and diverted to its centre of return". This comes into complete agreement with what Ammar bin Yasser said from the Source that we mentioned earlier: " O Thousands of Quraysh, until when are you going to take this position from the households of the prophet, you transfer it here once, and there another!, I do not doubt that Allah will remove it from you and place it in someone other, just as you have taken it from those who were rightful for it, and placed it in those who had not right for it!" Also noting that it the previous source mentioned is Correct (sahih). 

 

 

 

 

post-83202-0-24452200-1410535497_thumb.jpost-83202-0-62093900-1410535492_thumb.j

 

 

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 
 
 
We read in "Nahjul-Balagha (نهج البلاغة),", Sharh Al-Ust'ath Sheikh Muhammad Abd'ah ( الاستاذ محمد عبده), Association: Dar-Al-Marifa (دار المعرفة للطباعة والنشر), volume 1, sermon six: Delivered on being advised not to chase Talhah ibn `Ubaydillah and az-Zubayr ibn al-`Awwam for fighting, (لمّا أشير عليه بألاّ يتبع طلحةَ والزبيرَ ولا يُرصدَ لهما القتال), Page 41-42:

 

 

 

وَاللهِ لاَ أَكُونُ كالضَّبُعِ: تَنَامُ عَلى طُولِ اللَّدْمِ، حَتَّى يَصِلَ إِلَيْهَا طَالِبُهَا،وَيَخْتِلَهَا رَاصِدُها، وَلكِنِّي أَضْرِبُ بِالمُقْبِلِ إِلَى الحَقِّ المُدْبِرَ عَنْهُ، وَبِالسَّامِعِ المُطِيعِ العَاصِيَ المُريبَ أَبَداً، حَتَّى يَأْتِيَ عَلَيَّ يَوْمِي. فَوَاللهِ مَا زِلتُ مَدْفُوعاً عَنْ حَقِّي، مُسْتَأْثَراً عَلَيَّ، مُنْذُ قَبَضَ اللهُ تعالى نَبِيَّهُ (صلى الله عليه وآله) حَتَّى يَوْمِ النَّاسِ هذَا.

 

 

By Allah, I shall not be like the badger, that feigns sleep on continuous (sound of) stone-throwing till he who is in search of it finds it or he who is on the look out for it overpowers it. Rather, I shall ever strike the deviators from truth with the help of those who advance towards it, and the sinners and doubters with the help of those who listen to me and obey, till my day (of death) comes. By Allah I have been continually deprived of my right, with others being given preference to me, from the day the Prophet died till today.

 

 

 post-83202-0-24452200-1410535497_thumb.jpost-83202-0-86327200-1410536411_thumb.jpost-83202-0-64751400-1410536543_thumb.j

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

We read in "Nahjul-Balagha (نهج البلاغة),", Sharh Al-Ust'ath Sheikh Muhammad Abd'ah ( الاستاذ محمد عبده), Association: Dar-Al-Marifa (دار المعرفة للطباعة والنشر), volume 1, sermon six: Delivered on being advised not to chase Talhah ibn `Ubaydillah and az-Zubayr ibn al-`Awwam for fighting, (لمّا أشير عليه بألاّ يتبع طلحةَ والزبيرَ ولا يُرصدَ لهما القتال), Page 41-42:

وَاللهِ لاَ أَكُونُ كالضَّبُعِ: تَنَامُ عَلى طُولِ اللَّدْمِ، حَتَّى يَصِلَ إِلَيْهَا طَالِبُهَا،وَيَخْتِلَهَا رَاصِدُها، وَلكِنِّي أَضْرِبُ بِالمُقْبِلِ إِلَى الحَقِّ المُدْبِرَ عَنْهُ، وَبِالسَّامِعِ المُطِيعِ العَاصِيَ المُريبَ أَبَداً، حَتَّى يَأْتِيَ عَلَيَّ يَوْمِي. فَوَاللهِ مَا زِلتُ مَدْفُوعاً عَنْ حَقِّي، مُسْتَأْثَراً عَلَيَّ، مُنْذُ قَبَضَ اللهُ تعالى نَبِيَّهُ (صلى الله عليه وآله) حَتَّى يَوْمِ النَّاسِ هذَا.

By Allah, I shall not be like the badger, that feigns sleep on continuous (sound of) stone-throwing till he who is in search of it finds it or he who is on the look out for it overpowers it. Rather, I shall ever strike the deviators from truth with the help of those who advance towards it, and the sinners and doubters with the help of those who listen to me and obey, till my day (of death) comes. By Allah I have been continually deprived of my right, with others being given preference to me, from the day the Prophet died till today.

p11f_Page_1.jpg p11f_Page_2.jpg

I asked you to prove to me something quote straight forward but you come back with something different.

Now, let's roll back again.

You said ammar (ra) did not swear allegiance to 1 and 2 so I replied even imam Ali did 6 months later or 6 millenniums later that's not what I intend on getting into here.

According to us imam Ali (as) swore allegiance straight away but I know there's a Hadith that states he (as) did it 6 months later so for the sake of avoiding argument I agree with you that he swore allegiance after 6 months WITHOUT force according to our books.

Now you said ammar (ra) did not swear allegiance so I'm guessing your source is a Sunni source since you're trying to convince us.

Another question I asked you was that according to sunni sources imam Ali (as) swore allegiance after 6 months but you're trying to convince ammar (ra) never swore allegiance to 1 or 2 which then forced me to ask you the question as to why? Was ammar (ra) more braver or more knowledgeable than imam Ali (as)

Could I see this source that he refused to swear allegiance to 1 and 2 forever in our books.

Book name, page number, matn, isnaad and the name of the author please.

Edited by Wisdom007

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to us imam Ali (as) swore allegiance straight away but I know there's a Hadith that states he (as) did it 6 months later so for the sake of avoiding argument I agree with you that he swore allegiance after 6 months WITHOUT force according to our books.

 

"According to us Ali swore allegiance straight away"? That is a load of rubbish and you know it because your most reliable book clearly states that Imam Ali (as) clearly refused to swear allegiance and there was a meeting held in his house to conspire against Abu Bakr. You think that suddenly, after six months, Imam Ali (as) would willfully swear allegiance to Abu Bakr? You admitted in another thread that Abu Bakr's corrupt friend threatened to burn down Imam Ali (as) 's house. Even if we conclude he did swear allegiance, we know there was a clear, clear friction between Ali (as) and Abu Bakr and he did it out of pressure.

 

As for Ammar (ra), he did not swear allegiance to Abu Bakr but he did become the govenor of Kufa under Umar, who later fired him from his role. I wonder why?

Edited by Ali al-Hadi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to recorded History. Following of who's sunnah(Tradition) was not acceptable, to Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (as) at time of selection for third Caliph?

 

 

Delivered when the Holy Prophet died and `Abbas ibn `Abd al-Muttalib and Abu Sufyan ibn Harb offered to pay allegiance to Amir al-mu’minin for the Caliphate

" I have hidden knowledge, if I disclose it you will start trembling like ropes in deep wells." Imam Ali(as)

 http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-5-o-people-steer-clear-through-waves-mischief

 

 

Infallible can’t give allegiance to fallible.

Khalifatullah can’t give allegiance to anyone.

 

--------------

Two women claim the child. Judge declared that there was only one fair solution: the live son must be split in two, each woman receiving half of the child. Upon hearing this terrible verdict, the boy's true mother. Mother trying to save the baby, and gives it to the other women who falsely claims the baby , so the baby lives, does  not mean mother gave up the birthright or the protection.  

(**Also, Made a deal to look after the baby and advice the women on upbringing.)

Edited by S.M.H.A.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

 

 

 

According to us imam Ali  (as) swore allegiance straight away but I know there's a Hadith that states he  (as) did it 6 months later so for the sake of avoiding argument I agree with you that he swore allegiance after 6 months WITHOUT force according to our books.

 

 

Dear brother, according to the above premises he never, even once gave allegiance. In other words, It was never in a state where by the Quran, and the Orders of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) that he gave allegiance. Any we built our argument that he is an Imam of truth providing the evidence for his status, which such he cannot give an allegiance to a person who he sees as a "Traitor and a perpetrator". And the historical events later one provided for us the circumstances (e.g, Putting the house on fire) that he was in. Simply put, he gave allegiance in the form of "Taqqiyah" to avoid bloodshed of this Nation, since he have enough supports, and according you Sahih Muslim, that was the right act to act by. The above traditions, show that it is impossible for such an individual to give such a pledge. Ammar bin Yasser, Never gave allegiance, his word in the post 10# show this. And your highest scholar Ibn Shu'hab, verified that he opposed to give allegiance. Concerning the date of the Allegiance, it is evident after months later. Bukhari Testified this, and some of your other scholars. You would not need to provide me with a statement from a scholar of the status if Ibn Shuh'b, that Ammar did not oppose the "Bay'ah"of Abu bakr, and that he did swear allegiance. Again the historical accounts on show, (Page 10) He stated clear that it was: "Take in off" (The position of Caliphate), in the First place. It was not until fire raised in his house, that he gave his allegiance, Imam Ali (a.s). Abu bakr, at the last days, he admitted that he uncovered the house of Fatim'ah (a.s). Can you imagine? for one to have the atrocity to uncover the house of the family of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s)? (we can provide Authentic References for this, if asked).

 

_____________________________________________________

(wasalam)

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

Resuming where we left. 
 

 

We read in "Nahjul-Balagha (نهج البلاغة),", Sharh Al-Ust'ath Sheikh Muhammad Abd'ah ( الاستاذ محمد عبده), Association: Dar-Al-Marifa (دار المعرفة للطباعة والنشر), volume 2, One hundred and forty four: About Deputation of Prophets (مبعث الرسل), page #27.
 

أَيْنَ الَّذِينَ زَعَمُوا أَنَّهُمُ الرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ دُونَنَا، كَذِباً وَبَغْياً عَلَيْنَا، أَنْ رَفَعَنَا اللهُ وَوَضَعَهُمْ، وَأَعْطَانَا وَحَرَمَهُمْ، وَأَدْخَلَنَا وَأَخْرَجَهُمْ. بِنَا يُسْتَعْطَى الْهُدَى، وَبِنَا يُسْتَجْلَى الْعَمَى. إِنَّ الاْئِمَّةَ مِنْ قُرَيش غُرِسُوا فِي هذَا الْبَطْنِ مِنْ هَاشِم، لاَ تَصْلُحُ عَلَى سِوَاهُمْ، وَلاَ تَصْلُحُ الْوُلاَةُ مِنْ غَيْرِهمْ.
 
 
 
Where are those who falsely and unjustly claimed that they are deeply versed in knowledge (Al-Rasihkoon Fe Al-Ilm), as against us and hatred towards us, although Allah raised us in position and kept them down, bestowed upon us knowledge but deprived them, and entered us (in the fortress of knowledge) but kept them out. With us guidance is to be sought and blindness (of misguidance) is to be changed into brightness. Surely the Imams (divine leaders) will be from the Quraysh. They have been planted in this line (pointing at himself) from Hashim. It would not suit others nor would others be suitable as heads of affairs.
 
 
 
post-83202-0-24452200-1410535497_thumb.jpost-83202-0-23070300-1410560817_thumb.jpost-83202-0-73309100-1410560807_thumb.j
 
 
 
_________________________________________________

(Wasalam)

 

 

 

post-83202-0-24452200-1410535497_thumb.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

 

We read in "Nahjul-Balagha (نهج البلاغة),", Sharh Al-Ust'ath Sheikh Muhammad Abd'ah ( الاستاذ محمد عبده), Association: Dar-Al-Marifa (دار المعرفة للطباعة والنشر), volume 2: About future events and some activities of the hypocrites (يومي فيها إلى الملاحم و يصف فئة من أهل الضلال), Page # 36:
 

 

حَتَّى إِذَا قَبَضَ اللهُ رَسُولَهُ (صلى الله عليه وآله)، رَجَعَ قَوْمٌ عَلَى الاْعْقَابَ، وَغَالَتْهُمُ السُّبُلُ، وَاتَّكَلُوا عَلَى الْوَلاَئِجِ، وَوَصَلُوا غَيْرَ الرَّحِمِ، وَهَجَرُوا السَّبَبَ الَّذِي أُمِرُوا بِمَوَدَّتِهِ، وَنَقَلُوا الْبِنَاءَ عَنْ رَصِّ أَسَاسِهَ، فَبَنَوْهُ فِي غَيْرِ مَوْضِعِهِ. مَعَادِنُ كُلِّ خَطِيئَة، وَأَبْوَابُ كُلِّ ضَارِب فِي غَمْرَة، قَدْ مَارُوا فِي الْحَيْرَةِ، وَذَهَلُوا فِي السَّكْرَةِ، عَلَى سُنَّة مِنْ آلِ فِرْعَوْنَ: مِنْ مُنْقَطِع إِلَى الدُّنْيَا رَاكِن، أَوْ مُفَارِق لِلدِّينِ مُبَايِن.

 

 

 

Even if Allah took the Prophet (to himself), people of the nation went back on their ways. The ways (of misguidance) ruined them and they placed trust in deceitful intriguers (meaning: Betrayal and Trickery), showed consideration to other than kinsmen, abandoned the kin whom they had been ordered to love,(2) and shifted the building from its strong foundation and built it in other than its (proper) place. They are the source of every wrong and the door of gropers in the dark (1). They were moving to and from in amazement and lay intoxicated in the manner of the people of the Pharaohs: They were either bent on this world and taking support on it, or away from the faith and removed from it.

 

 

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

(1) You clearly can see how Imam Ali (a.s) described them, just as he has thought of them in in the previous narration of what he thought of Abu bakr and Umar, as: "Dishonest, traitors, perpetrators." (Sahih Muslim).
 

(2) The only individuals who we were ordered to love, where Ahlulbayt (a.s), and this evident, through many sources. The following verse Testifies: "I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my kinship"

 

 

 

 

 

post-83202-0-24452200-1410535497_thumb.jpost-83202-0-23070300-1410560817_thumb.jpost-83202-0-24767400-1410564176_thumb.j

 


post-83202-0-17535300-1410564326_thumb.j

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

 

We read in "Nahjul-Balagha (نهج البلاغة),", Sharh Al-Ust'ath Sheikh Muhammad Abd'ah ( الاستاذ محمد عبده), Association: Dar-Al-Marifa (دار المعرفة للطباعة والنشر), volume 2, Sermon: "Praise be to Allah from whose view one sky does not conceal another sky nor one earth another earth. (الْحَمْدُ لله الَّذِي لاَ تُوَارِي عَنْهُ سَمَاءٌ سَمَاءً، وَلاَ أَرْضٌ أَرْضاً), Seeking aid against the Quraysh, page #85:

 

 

 اللهم إني أستعينك على قريش ومن أعانهم (1)، فإنهم قطعوا رحمي، وصغروا عظيم منزلتي، وأجمعوا على منازعتي أمرا هو لي

 

 

"O Allah I seek Thy succour against the Quraysh and those who are assisting them, because they are denying me (the rights of) kinship, have lowered my high position, and are united in opposing me in the matter (of the caliphate) which is my right.

 

 

 

post-83202-0-24452200-1410535497_thumb.jpost-83202-0-23070300-1410560817_thumb.jpost-83202-0-45996500-1410565328_thumb.j
 
 
 
 
Its therefore clear, that Imam Ali (a.s) has always stated and claimed that they have taken his right, from the day of the passing of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s), to his last days.
Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

We read in "Nahjul-Balagha (نهج البلاغة),", Sharh Al-Ust'ath Sheikh Muhammad Abd'ah ( الاستاذ محمد عبده), Association: Dar-Al-Marifa (دار المعرفة للطباعة والنشر), volume 2, Sermon: "Praise be to Allah from whose view one sky does not conceal another sky nor one earth another earth. (الْحَمْدُ لله الَّذِي لاَ تُوَارِي عَنْهُ سَمَاءٌ سَمَاءً، وَلاَ أَرْضٌ أَرْضاً), Seeking aid against the Quraysh, page #85:

اللهم إني أستعينك على قريش ومن أعانهم (1)، فإنهم قطعوا رحمي، وصغروا عظيم منزلتي، وأجمعوا على منازعتي أمرا هو لي

"O Allah I seek Thy succour against the Quraysh and those who are assisting them, because they are denying me (the rights of) kinship, have lowered my high position, and are united in opposing me in the matter (of the caliphate) which is my right.

Pages from نهج البلاغة - الإمام علي بن أبي طالب - شرح محمد عبده-4.jpg

Its therefore clear, that Imam Ali (a.s) has always stated and claimed that they have taken his right, from the day of the passing of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s), to his last days.

ISLAMIC HISTORY

"Dear brother, according to the above premises he never, even once gave allegiance. In other words, It was never in a state where by the Quran, and the Orders of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) that he gave allegiance."

You must prove he was forced from our books not your books so stop copy and pasting nahj ul balagah and stop giving me long copy and paste because to be totally honest with you I'm not even reading your long posts but I'm literally skimming through them fast.

You must prove the same for ammar (ra) keep your posts short and straight to the point.

"According to us Ali swore allegiance straight away"? That is a load of rubbish and you know it because your most reliable book clearly states that Imam Ali (as) clearly refused to swear allegiance and there was a meeting held in his house to conspire against Abu Bakr. You think that suddenly, after six months, Imam Ali (as) would willfully swear allegiance to Abu Bakr? You admitted in another thread that Abu Bakr's corrupt friend threatened to burn down Imam Ali (as) 's house. Even if we conclude he did swear allegiance, we know there was a clear, clear friction between Ali (as) and Abu Bakr and he did it out of pressure.

As for Ammar (ra), he did not swear allegiance to Abu Bakr but he did become the govenor of Kufa under Umar, who later fired him from his role. I wonder why?

ALI AL HADI

I've agreed for argument sake cuz I don't want to go into too much detail about when the allegiance was given but I'm talking about something else here.

You missed the point about the reasons as to why imam Ali refused to give allegiance to Abu bakr and it wasn't because he thought it was exclusively his right so relax :)

As for ammar (ra) you must prove it from our books via authentic source that he did not ever give allegiance to 1 and 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

 

 

 

You must prove he was forced from our books not your books so stop copy and pasting nahj ul balagah and stop giving me long copy and paste because to be totally honest with you I'm not even reading your long posts but I'm literally skimming through them fast. 

 

Dear brother, by no reading my posts in totality is not the way of logically approaching the issue you have stated: Which is: "Imam  Ali (a.s) gave allegiance.". The started off from clear authentic narrations, that the pure truth and Qur'an the guardian which is Imam Ali (a.s) in its interpretation, he (a.s) cannot act upon such to give allegiance to whom he thinks of as "ineligible", and "Unworthy, and his "Belief/opinion in such a matter, is "Truth" since it reflects on the "Pure Truth" (authentic) and the Book of Allah (authentic), and it as not until they had surrounded his house to assure that he would give such an allegiance, for their desire.        

 

 

 

 

As for ammar  (ra) you must prove it from our books via authentic source that he did not ever give allegiance to 1 and 2

 

 

1- Ammar (r.a) Testified, Please read narration post 10#

 

2- The Majority of your scholar, hold that he opposed the alliance, I don't know how much you know about the status of Ibn-Shuhayb, but he is equal to Bukhari, and in the science of narrations, he surpasses him. I quoted a Bibliography which is from Imam-Al-Dahabi's book, Siyar Al'am Al-Nubala.  

 

3- Now to hold evidence against the belief if your scholars: you must: (1) Provide a quotation of a high rank scholar (e.g: Status of Ibn Shu'haiyb) whom states that he gave allegiance later on. (2) where Ammar, did not oppose the alliance (Which is impossible, historically speaking).

 

 

___________________________________

(wasalam) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

Dear brother, by no reading my posts in totality is not the way of logically approaching the issue you have stated: Which is: "Imam Ali (a.s) gave allegiance.". The started off from clear authentic narrations, that the pure truth and Qur'an the guardian which is Imam Ali (a.s) in its interpretation, he (a.s) cannot act upon such to give allegiance to whom he thinks of as "ineligible", and "Unworthy, and his "Belief/opinion in such a matter, is "Truth" since it reflects on the "Pure Truth" (authentic) and the Book of Allah (authentic), and it as not until they had surrounded his house to assure that he would give such an allegiance, for their desire.

1- Ammar (r.a) Testified, Please read narration post 10#

2- The Majority of your scholar, hold that he opposed the alliance, I don't know how much you know about the status of Ibn-Shuhayb, but he is equal to Bukhari, and in the science of narrations, he surpasses him. I quoted a Bibliography which is from Imam-Al-Dahabi's book, Siyar Al'am Al-Nubala.

3- Now to hold evidence against the belief if your scholars: you must: (1) Provide a quotation of a high rank scholar (e.g: Status of Ibn Shu'haiyb) whom states that he gave allegiance later on. (2) where Ammar, did not oppose the alliance (Which is impossible, historically speaking).

___________________________________

(wasalam)

Ok il make it even more simple for you since you're failing to understand.

Prove to me from our books that imam Ali refused to give allegiance because he thought he was some divinely appointed individual and that he was already appointed. I cannot make it any more simple than that.

The same goes for ammar (ra), you must prove that he believed imam Ali was already appointed by Allah swt.

There's no point you quoting from your books like nahj ul balagah etc trying to convince me via Shia books...that's illogical brother

Edited by Wisdom007

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

 

We finish this topic, with the belief on the concern of the allegiance (Bay'ah) to Abu bakr. We quote from the highest rank of scholars of the Shia-Immamiyah, and this is the opinion of the rest of the highest ranks among us:

 

 

We read in "Al-Fusul Al-Mukhtar'ah min Al-uy'oon Wa Al-Mahasin (الفصول المختارة من العيون والمحاسن)" By Author: as Al-Sayed Shareef Al-Murtatha (السيد الشريف المرتضى), Association: The Authoirty Al-Alami, for the works of Shiekh Al-Mufid ( المؤتمر العالمي لآلفية الشيخ المفيد), on page #56: 
 

 

 

 والمحققون من أهل الإمامة يقولون: لم يبايع ساعة قط فقد حصل الاجماع على تأخره عن البيعة ثم اختلفوا في بيعته بعد ذلك على ما قدمنا به الشرح.

 

 

 

And the "Muaqiqoon (Investigators; Scholars)" From the "Ahl (people)" of the Immamiyah (shia) they say: "He (Imam Ali a.s) did not give Allegiance even for one hour, for the meeting took place on his delay of the "Bay'ah", then they differed in his "Bay'ah" after that what we have introduced in our explanation.

 

 

________________________________________________________________________
 

 

He then later explains why, for those who want to keep reading: (link)

 

 

post-83202-0-15548100-1410568715_thumb.jpost-83202-0-19235600-1410568666_thumb.j

 

 

 


(bismillah)

 

 

 

 

Prove to me from our books that imam Ali refused to give allegiance because he thought he was done divinely appointed individual and that he was already appointed. I cannot make it abu more simple than that.

 

1- Dear brother, All the above posts testify, that the allegiance of Imam Ali (a.s) given is not an allegiance of the Qur'an and the commands the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s), Which are from Allah.

 

2- Unless you can quote an Authentic traditions fro our literature, where Imam Ali (a.s) him self approached Abu bakr without any actions taken from them, and gave an Allegiance based on the Qur'an and the Commands of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) 

 

 

 

 

 

There's no point you quoting from your books like nahj ul balagah etc trtung to convince me via Shia books.

 

 

Dear, I am not trying to convince you via Shia' books, from the first post, to its last, I have quoted from the works and beliefs of your scholars. If you understood why I was quoting from Nahjul-Balagha, you would not state such fallacy, I reasoned why in the first reply to your question.

 

 

______________________________________

(wasalam)


 

 

The same goes for ammar  (ra), you must prove that he believed imam Ali was already appointed by Allah swt. 

 

First issue of the topic was whether Imam Ali (a.s) gave allegiance, and whether Ammar acted also to, however give the authentic sources and quotations from the words of your earlier scholars, this is deemed true. Now, you are simply deviating from the topic, Which does not change that fact, that he opposed the "Bay'ah" of Abu bakr, and after Uthman's death he yelled in town, of the atrocities of taking the caliphate of the Ahlulbayt (a.s) (ref: Post #10 Correct Source). It is certainly, that he stood by Imam Ali (a.s) all his life, and that goes for Al-Miqd'aad as well (Post 10#).

 

______________________________________________ 

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

We finish this topic, with the belief on the concern of the allegiance (Bay'ah) to Abu bakr. We quote from the highest rank of scholars of the Shia-Immamiyah, and this is the opinion of the rest of the highest ranks among us:

We read in "Al-Fusul Al-Mukhtar'ah min Al-uy'oon Wa Al-Mahasin (الفصول المختارة من العيون والمحاسن)" By Author: as Al-Sayed Shareef Al-Murtatha (السيد الشريف المرتضى), Association: The Authoirty Al-Alami, for the works of Shiekh Al-Mufid ( المؤتمر العالمي لآلفية الشيخ المفيد), on page #56:

والمحققون من أهل الإمامة يقولون: لم يبايع ساعة قط فقد حصل الاجماع على تأخره عن البيعة ثم اختلفوا في بيعته بعد ذلك على ما قدمنا به الشرح.

And the "Muaqiqoon (Investigators; Scholars)" From the "Ahl (people)" of the Immamiyah (shia) they say: "He (Imam Ali a.s) did not give Allegiance even for one hour, for the meeting took place on his delay of the "Bay'ah", then they differed in his "Bay'ah" after that what we have introduced in our explanation.

________________________________________________________________________

He then later explains why, for those who want to keep reading: (link)

Capture.JPG Pages from alfsool-almukhtara.jpg

(bismillah)

1- Dear brother, All the above posts testify, that the allegiance of Imam Ali (a.s) given is not an allegiance of the Qur'an and the commands the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s), Which are from Allah.

2- Unless you can quote an Authentic traditions fro our literature, where Imam Ali (a.s) him self approached Abu bakr without any actions taken from them, and gave an Allegiance based on the Qur'an and the Commands of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s)

Dear, I am not trying to convince you via Shia' books, from the first post, to its last, I have quoted from the works and beliefs of your scholars. If you understood why I was quoting from Nahjul-Balagha, you would not state such fallacy, I reasoned why in the first reply to your question.

______________________________________

(wasalam)

First issue of the topic was whether Imam Ali (a.s) gave allegiance, and whether Ammar acted also to, however give the authentic sources and quotations from the words of your earlier scholars, this is deemed true. Now, you are simply deviating from the topic, Which does not change that fact, that he opposed the "Bay'ah" of Abu bakr, and after Uthman's death he yelled in town, of the atrocities of taking the caliphate of the Ahlulbayt (a.s) (ref: Post #10 Correct Source). It is certainly, that he stood by Imam Ali (a.s) all his life, and that goes for Al-Miqd'aad as well (Post 10#).

______________________________________________

You are missing the point again...

You must prove from our books that the real reason why imam Ali refused the bayah was because he believed he was already appointed by Allah swt, otherwise your argument holds no weight. As far as I'm aware imam Ali was upset for not being included in picking the first caliph and not because he thought he was already appointed. I hope you understand this time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah) 

 

 

In the beging you stated: 

 

 

 

 

. Show me your literature where ammar did not swear allegiance with the book, page number, author, matn, and the chain of narrators 

 

 

So, since I have proven it from your (Ahlu-Sunnah) literature, I will now make this evident from our own ligature, as you request:

 

 

-We read in "Al-Khis'al (الخصال)", By Shiekh Al-Sadooq, Abi'Ja'afar ( الشيخ الصدوق ابي جعفر محمد بن علي بن الحسين بن بابويه القمي), Corrected it, and commented on it: Ali Akb'ar Al-Ghafari (صححه وعلق عليه: علي اكبر الغفاري), The Association of release: Al-Islamiyah, that follows to "Al-Jamiyah" of the two schools in Qom ( الاسلامي التابعة لجماعة المدرسيين بقم المشرفة) First print, volume 2, page 464, Section: "Those who denied on Abu bakr his sitting on the caliphate and his preference over Ali bin Abi Talib (a.s) (الذين أنكروا على أبى بكر جلوسه في الخلافة وتقدمه على علي ابن أبي طالب عليه السلام اثنا عشر): 

 

 

ثم قام عمار بن ياسر فقال: يا أبا بكر لا تجعل لنفسك حقا جعله الله عز وجل لغيرك، ولا تكن أول من عصى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وخالفه في أهل بيته واردد الحق إلى أهله تخف ظهرك وتقل وزرك وتلقى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وهو عنك راض، ثم يصير إلى الرحمن فيحاسبك بعملك ويسألك عما فعلت.

 

 

 

After several of those who opposed Abu bakr.... "Then stood up, Amm'ar bin Yasser so he said: "O Abu bakr, Do not make for yourself a right, that Allah All mighty (Aza'Wa'Jal) made for another, but the first to disobey the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his households) and opposed him in his households, (or) Return the right to its households, till lighten your back, and decrease your burden, and met the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his households) satisfied with you, Then (Will) walk to Al-Rah'man (merciful/Allah), and judge you for what your doings and ask you what you have done."

 

 

 

post-83202-0-18175900-1410574492_thumb.jpost-83202-0-47878500-1410574476_thumb.j

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You must prove from our books that the real reason why imam Ali refused the bayah was because he believed he was already appointed by Allah swt, otherwise your argument holds no weight. As far as I'm aware imam Ali was upset for not being included in picking the first caliph and not because he thought he was already appointed. I hope you understand this time 

 

 

(1) Brother you are going out of the topic, As the main focus is that: 1- Imam Ali never gave an Alliance based on the Qur'an and the commands of the Prophet (s.a.w..as) and neither did Ammar bin Yasser.  

 

(2) The issue of Him believing that he is the caliphate (divinely appointed) is another research issue, and is not with the issue of him not giving allegiance.

 

(3) In our last topic: "Shia or Sunni", I have proivded reference Where the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) refers to Imam Ali (a.s) as the caliph of every believer, and the Wali (guardian). And in addition, that Only he can take the place of the prophet (s.a.w.a.s) in taking care of the Islamic laws.

 

(4) in the beginning of this post : I have proven that he is more of high status, and is divine in the Message, and part oft the Message of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s).

(5) So if you desire to discuss the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) appointing Imam Ali (a.s), then Refer back to the narrations (Authentic) that I posted in "Shia or Sunni" Page. 

(6) if you insist for me to repeat my self on that particular issue, there is no problem, but will simply rearrange the narrations that I have post earlier from our last discussion, and add more with the concern of the events of his divine appointment. This might take more time, since I am very busy.

 

(7) In conclusion to the topic. you were unable to justify what you first stated, in terms of "Giving" "Bay'ah".

 

_____________________________


(wasalam)    

Edited by TheIslamHistory

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

In the beging you stated:

So, since I have proven it from your (Ahlu-Sunnah) literature, I will now make this evident from our own ligature, as you request:

-We read in "Al-Khis'al (الخصال)", By Shiekh Al-Sadooq, Abi'Ja'afar ( الشيخ الصدوق ابي جعفر محمد بن علي بن الحسين بن بابويه القمي), Corrected it, and commented on it: Ali Akb'ar Al-Ghafari (صححه وعلق عليه: علي اكبر الغفاري), The Association of release: Al-Islamiyah, that follows to "Al-Jamiyah" of the two schools in Qom ( الاسلامي التابعة لجماعة المدرسيين بقم المشرفة) First print, volume 2, page 464, Section: "Those who denied on Abu bakr his sitting on the caliphate and his preference over Ali bin Abi Talib (a.s) (الذين أنكروا على أبى بكر جلوسه في الخلافة وتقدمه على علي ابن أبي طالب عليه السلام اثنا عشر):

ثم قام عمار بن ياسر فقال: يا أبا بكر لا تجعل لنفسك حقا جعله الله عز وجل لغيرك، ولا تكن أول من عصى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وخالفه في أهل بيته واردد الحق إلى أهله تخف ظهرك وتقل وزرك وتلقى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وهو عنك راض، ثم يصير إلى الرحمن فيحاسبك بعملك ويسألك عما فعلت.

After several of those who opposed Abu bakr.... "Then stood up, Amm'ar bin Yasser so he said: "O Abu bakr, Do not make for yourself a right, that Allah All mighty (Aza'Wa'Jal) made for another, but the first to disobey the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his households) and opposed him in his households, (or) Return the right to its households, till lighten your back, and decrease your burden, and met the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his households) satisfied with you, Then (Will) walk to Al-Rah'man (merciful/Allah), and judge you for what your doings and ask you what you have done."

kitab-alkhesal.jpg Pages from kitab-alkhesal.jpg

(1) Brother you are going out of the topic, As the main focus is that: 1- Imam Ali never gave an Alliance based on the Qur'an and the commands of the Prophet (s.a.w..as) and neither did Ammar bin Yasser.

(2) The issue of Him believing that he is the caliphate (divinely appointed) is another research issue, and is not with the issue of him not giving allegiance.

(3) In our last topic: "Shia or Sunni", I have proivded reference Where the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) refers to Imam Ali (a.s) as the caliph of every believer, and the Wali (guardian). And in addition, that Only he can take the place of the prophet (s.a.w.a.s) in taking care of the Islamic laws.

(4) in the beginning of this post : I have proven that he is more of high status, and is divine in the Message, and part oft the Message of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s).

(5) So if you desire to discuss the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) appointing Imam Ali (a.s), then Refer back to the narrations (Authentic) that I posted in "Shia or Sunni" Page.

(6) if you insist for me to repeat my self on that particular issue, there is no problem, but will simply rearrange the narrations that I have post earlier from our last discussion, and add more with the concern of the events of his divine appointment. This might take more time, since I am very busy.

(7) In conclusion to the topic. you were unable to justify what you first stated, in terms of "Giving" "Bay'ah".

_____________________________

(wasalam)

I was talking about literature from our books it's pointless me asking you for your books. I want an authentic Hadith book name, page number, matn, isnaad and the name of the author. If you say already posted it then pardon me but I must have missed since I havnt read all your posts completely. Please could you repost it

Please do not give be endless scans one scan is sufficient

If you're going to try and convince us that imam Ali was forced to give bayah then you must prove it from our books. You say it (the bayah) was not according to quran and sunnah so it was forced...you must prove this via our sources

Edited by Wisdom007

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

 

 

 

 

I was talking about literature from our books it's pointless me asking you for your books

 

(1) Sorry brother, We have already quoted from your books, and now we have quoted from ours. Perhaps clarify in your sentences.

 

 

 

 

 I want an authentic Hadith book name, page number, matn, isnaad and the name of the author. I

 

(2) I quoted. Yes. if you are talking about Ammar. refer to post 10#.

(3) With that your highest scholars, Ibn Shu'hiayb has made clear that He opposed the allegiance in the first place.

(4) I ask you to provide me an equal statement of the status of the scholar Shu'hiyab and you were unable to.

 

 

 

 

 you say already posted it then pardon me but I must have missed since I havnt read all your posts completely. Please could you repost it

 

Page 1, Post 10 (Concerning Ammar).

 

Again I asked for , provide me an equal statement of the status of the scholar Shu'hiyab and you were unable to. Or a narration were he had given allegiance. 

_____________________________

Again I asked for 

 

 

 

 

Please do not give be endless scans one scan is sufficient 
 

 

I post a scan for each quote, Have I posted something twice? My apologies. Others will benefit.

 

____________________________________________________________________________

(wasalam) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

If you're going to try and convince us that imam Ali was forced to give bayah then you must prove it from our books. You say it (the bayah) was not according to quran and sunnah so it was forced...you must prove this via our sources 

 

(1) It was forced in terms of the the raid on his house (Fatim'ah).

 

(2) After a while, that he gave his Allegiance (not on the Quran and the Sunnah).

 

(3) He opposed them at the beginning, meaning, him (a.s) according to the commands of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) and the Quran, as we have provided narrations that all actions taken by him are of pure truth. Refer back to the first reply.

 

(4) It was only after the raid (attack).

 

(5) He thought of them (Abu bakr & Umar) are "Traitors & Liars" (Sahih muslim).

 

I assume that You have not read by reply in detail. If so, please don't waste your time, I have built my argument in authentic premise, which you avoided to encounter from the first reply.

 

______________________________________

(Wasalam) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wisdom how silly and no wisdom request is that you expect one who gained power by usurping to allow text which says Ali is successor. Ali didn't ever gave bayah. In books of those who are accused.

You can't yourself see the truth with your obstinate blind eye to commonsense and bring me proof from my books attitude. And when proof is given you'll decline its own authenticity or twist meanings or I'll not be surprised if you'll reject it on basis of language, color and font.

Use some wisdom to understand not be obstinate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

 

 

 You say it (the bayah) was not according to quran and sunnah so it was forced...you must prove this via our sources 

 

 

Brother, the "Bay'ah" meaning to give ones self in allegiance to another, for both the Shia and Ahlul-Sunnah and an Islamic law that ust be established after the passing of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s), if such was not "Obligatory" upon the nation of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s), then how could one establish and Islamic State, that is ruled by the commands of Allah? Therefore for the nation of the prophet (s.a.w.a.s) it is an obligatory commands by Allah to establish such a state, and in such a state it is obligatory by the commands of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) for that state to be ruled by the Commands of Allah, and for one to be the caliphate of that state must be in accordance to the commands of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s) that are divinely sent down to him from Allah (Aza'Wa'Jal). So for Imam Ali (a.s) to give allegiance that is a pure and true "Allegiance", it must be by the Qur'an an the orders of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s), and if it is not, then therefore the allegiance is a mere "Taqqiyah", and in Imam Ali's (a.s) case, to save the nation from bloodshed, you can see, even when chance for him arose after uthman, he was threatened by Muw'aiyah and Ashia who have disobeyed Allah. In this,if Imam Ali (a.s) opposed Abu bakr in the fist place, then that "opposition" is in accordance with the Qur'an and the orders of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s), because as we have established earlier on, "The Quran is with Ali and Ali is with the Quran", & "Truth is with Ali and Ali is with the truth where ever it surrounds." & "Ali is the guidance" and "Guardian of the interpretation of the Qur'an", so how can he oppose Abu bakr according to his desire if is at that status, where he the Quran and pure truth are alongside with him? Therefore the opposition towards Abu bakr, is in accordance to Truth and the Quran. Later from the historical context we proved that he did not give "Bay'ha" only after they have invaded his home, and threatened his wife Fatim'ah Al-Zahra (a.s)" do you think they were following the Sunnah of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) by doing so? What would the prophet (s.a.w.a.s) do, if he saw this? He him self (s.a.w.a.s) has emphasized on the love and obedience towards the Qur'an and Ahlulbayt (a.s) and that we hold on to them. Second my dear brother, The nation of the Prophet (s.a.w.as) cannot continue without a caliphate, but rather Islam it self cannot continue to the day of judgement without the twelve caliphs, so if these twelve caliphs according to the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) are what Islam is built on, for it to continue, then they must me pure of sin and great status, for Islam do depend on them:

 

We read inSahih Muslim. (English ver.), Chapter DCCLIV, v3, p1010, Tradition #4483; Sahih Muslim (Arabic), Kitab al-Imaara, 1980 Saudi Arabian Edition, v3, p1453, Tradition #10

 

 

The Prophet (s) said: “The Religion (Islam) will continue until the Hour (Day of Resurrection), having Twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh.” 

 

 

 

post-83202-0-03625000-1382736855_thumb.j  post-83202-0-09803200-1382736453_thumb.j

 

 

 

However as you have seen Imam Ali (a.s) has thought of the two caliphs Abu bakr and Umar to be "Liars, Traitors, sinful" (Sahih Muslim), and I am not saying this to offend you or them, but if Imam Ali (a.s) though of them this way, then how can they be the caliphs of the Religion of Islam?. Imam Ali (a.s), the households of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s) have truly been betrayed after the prophet (s.a.w.as) and the prophet (s.a.w.a.s) has reported to them of this before his passing. Sadly, the majority of Muslims do not understand what it means to hold on to the book of Allah and his Ahlulbayt (a.s), they take one part of the religion and hold on one part, with turning a blind eye to its foundation. 

 

 

Brother you said, you did not bother to read my reply and simply skimmed over it. Brother, When we are debating we are taking a logical and scientific approach, if such is not satisfactory to you, then please revise your beliefs. At lease if you think you are always right, then investigated, read, think and look at the perspectives of both sides. Only that will show you truth, and may Allah guide you and keep you away from falsehood, Insha'Allah.

 

 

_________________________________________________________________
 

 


 post-83202-0-14728500-1410589016_thumb.p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

We read in "Al-Saqeefah Wa Al-Fadak (السقيفة وفدك), By Ab'a bakr Ahmad bin Abd'all-Aziz Al-Jawharu Al-Basri (لأبي بكر أحمد بن عبدالعزيز الجوهري البصري البغدادي), Died year 323 Hijrah, Introduced and Investigated by Dr. Sheikeh Muhammad Hadi Al-ameeni (الدكتور الشيخ محمد هادي الأميني), page 90, with a correct Isna'aad:

قال عوانة: قال إسماعيل: قال الشعبي: فحدثني عبد الرحمن بن جندب، عن أبيه جندب بن عبد الله الأزدي، قال: كنت جالسا بالمدينة حيث بويع عثمان، فجئت فجلست إلى المقداد بن عمرو، فسمعته يقول:

Said: Awa'na: Said Isma'eel, Said: Al-Shuabi: told us Ab'd Al-Rahman Bin Jundm, from his father, Jundum bin Abdulah Al-Azdi said: I was sitting in Al-Madenah where Uthman was given allegiance, so I came and sat next to Al-Mida'd bin amru, So I heard him say:

والله ما رأيت مثل ما أتى إلى أهل هذا البيت، وكان عبد الرحمن بن عوف جالسا فقال: وما أنت وذاك يا مقداد، قال المقداد: إني والله أحبهم لحب رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله)، وإني لأعجب من قريش وتطاولهم على الناس بفضل رسول الله، ثم انتزاعهم سلطانه من أهله، قال عبد الرحمن:

"By Allah, I have never seen, just as what has come to this Ahlulbayt (a.s)." And Ab'd -Alrahman bin Awf was sitting and said: "And what is it with you O Miqda'd?", So Said Al-Miqda'd: "By Allah I love them for the love of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s), And I am not surprised from Quraish and their trespassing on the people, with the priority of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.a.s), and then taking his authority from his households (a.s)". Said Abdull'Rahman:

أما والله لقد أجهدت نفسي لكم، قال المقداد: أما والله لقد تركت رجلا من الذين يأمرون بالحق وبه يعدلون، أما والله لو أن لي على قريش أعوانا لقاتلتهم قتالي إياهم ببدر، وأحد، فقال عبد الرحمن، ثكلتك أمك، لا يسمعن هذا الكلام الناس، فإني أخاف أن تكون صاحب فتنة وفرقة.

"By Allah I have tired my self for you". said Al-Miqda'd: "By Allah, you have left a man whom is from those who order righteousness, with him they become Just (Justice). By Allah If I had on Quryash Supporters to fight them, my fight with them is that of Badr, one." So said Abdull'Rahman: "May your bother deprive of you, The people do not hear this, for I am afraid that you are a person of Fintah and groupings".

قال المقداد: إن من دعا إلى الحق وأهله وولاة الأمر لا يكون صاحب فتنة، ولكن من أقحم الناس في الباطل، وآثر الهوى على الحق، فذلك صاحب الفتنة والفرقة. قال: فتريد وجه عبد الرحمن، ثم قال: لو أعلم أنك إياي تعني لكان لي ولك شأن. قال المقداد: إياي تهدد يا ابن أم عبد الرحمن، ثم قام عن عبد الرحمن فانصرف.

Said Al-Miqd'ad: "Whom invites to Justice, and its people, and the obedient to rulers, is not a person of Fint'ah, but he is the most piercing of the people in injustice, and (whom) favors his desire over righteousness, for he is the person of Fitn'ah and groupings". Said: So you want the face of Abdull'-Rahman, Then said: "If I knew that you meant me, between me and you there would have been an issue." Said Al-Miqd'ad: "Do you threaten me O Ibn Um Abdull'Rhaman?" Then he (Al-Miqd'ad) left from Abdull'Rahman and And went.

قال جندب بن عبد الله: فاتبعته وقلت له: يا عبد الله، أنا من أعوانك، فقال: رحمك الله، إن هذا الأمر لا يغني فيه الرجلان ولا الثلاثة، قال: فدخلت من فوري ذلك على علي (عليه السلام)، فلما جلست إليه قلت: يا أبا الحسن، والله ما أصاب قومك بصرف هذا الأمر عنك، فقال: صبر جميل والله المستعان

Said Jun'thub bin Abdullah: So I followed him and said: "O Servant of Allah, I am of your supporters", So he (Al-Miqd'ad) said: "May Allah have mercy on you, this issue, does not satisfy with two men or three." said: So I entered straight away to Imam Ali (a.s), so when I sad in opposite to him and said: "O father of Hassan, By Allah what has inflected your nation, with taking this issue from you." So he said: "Patients is pleasant, and Allah is the helper." .

فقلت: والله إنك لصبور، قال: فإن لم أصبر فماذا أصنع، قلت: إني جلست إلى المقداد بن عمرو آنفا، وعبد الرحمن بن عوف، فقالا كذا وكذا، ثم قام المقداد فاتبعته، فقلت له كذا، فقال لي كذا، فقال علي (عليه السلام)، لقد صدق المقداد فما أصنع، فقلت: تقوم في الناس فتدعوهم إلى نفسك، وتخبرهم أنك أولى بالنبي (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)، وتسألهم النصر على هؤلاء المتظاهرين عليك، فإن أجابك عشرة من مائة شددت بهم على الباقين، فإن دانوا لك فذاك، وإلا قاتلتهم وكنت أولى بالعذر، قتلت أو بقيت، وكنت أعلى عند الله حجة.

So I said: By Allah you are patient. So he (a.s) said: "I was not patient, what would I make?", So I said: "I sat next to Al-Miqd'ad bin Amru, and passed, and Abull'Rahman bin Awf, so he said: "That and that.", then Al-Miqd'ad stood up and left, so I followed him, so I said to him, "That", so he said to me "That". So said Imam Ali (a.s): "Miqd'ad has said the Truth, So what do I make?" So I said: "Stand up among the people and invite them to your self, and tell them that you are more entitled (Wali) to the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s), and ask them to triumph on these people who are protesting against you. If ten answered you from a hundred, make them serve on the others, and if they embraced (follow) you, then that. And if not, fight them, and you have more right on you claim, if you died or lived, you were higher in Allah, a testament.

فقال: أترجوا يا جندب أن يبايعني من كل عشرة واحد، قلت: أرجو ذلك، قال: لكني لا أرجو ذلك، لا والله ولا من المائة واحد، وسأخبرك أن الناس إنما ينظرون إلى قريش فيقولون: هم قوم محمد وقبيله، وأما قريش بينها فتقول: إن آل محمد يرون لهم على الناس بنبوته فضلا، ويرون أنهم أولياء هذا الأمر دون قريش، ودون غيرهم من الناس، وهم إن ولوه لم يخرج السلطان منهم إلى أحد أبدا، ومتى كان في غيرهم تداولته قريش بينها، لا والله لا يدفع الناس إلينا هذا الأمر طائعين أبدا.

So he (a.s) said: "Do you wish O, Jun'thub from each ten to, one to give me Allegiance ?", I said: "I wish for that". He (a.s) said: "But I do not wish for such, No By Allah, and not by the hundreds one, and I will tell you that the people look at Quryash and say: "They are the nation of Muhammad and his tribe". And as for Quryash, between them they will say: "the Households of Muhammad see themselves over the people with the his Prophethood as a merit, and they see them selves as the Awliya'a of this issue without Quryash" , and without them and others from the people, and if they gave it to, the ruler will not come out of them at all, and (at all times) when Quryash in others, spreading it between them (Quryash), No By Allah, this does not push the people towards us, obedient, at all.

قلت: جعلت فداك يا ابن عم رسول الله، لقد صدعت قلبي بهذا القول، أفلا أرجع إلى المصر، فؤذن الناس بمقالتك، وأدعو الناس إليك، فقال: يا جندب ليس هذا زمان ذاك.

I said: "May I be sacrificed for you, O Son of uncle of the Messenger of Allah, you have fractured my heart with this saying, should return to Egypt, and allow the people with your speech, and invite the people to you?" So he (a.s) said: "O Jun'thub this is, not for that time.".

قال: فانصرفت إلى العراق فكنت أذكر فضل علي على الناس، فلا أعدم رجلا يقول لي ما أكره، وأحسن ما أسمعه قول من يقول: دع عنك هذا وخذ فيما ينفعك، فأقول: إن هذا مما ينفعني وينفعك، فيقوم عني ويدعني.

Said: "So I left to Iraq, and I was mentioning the merits of Ali on the people, and do not deprive of such, saying to me what I hate, and better, what I listen, the saying of whom says: "Leave that from you, and take what benefits you.", So I say: "This is what benefits me, and benefits you, then stands from me and leaves me.

حتى رفع ذلك من قولي إلى الوليد بن عقبة، أيام ولينا، فبعث إلي فحبسني حتى كلم في، فخلى سبيلي.

Until, that raised from my saying to Al-Wal'eed bin Uqb'ah, on the days of our Wali, so he sent to me, and imprisoned me, until he talked about me, and released me.

ونادى عمار بن ياسر ذلك اليوم: يا معشر المسلمين، إنا قد كنا وما كنا نستطيع الكلام، قلة وذلة، فأعزنا الله بدينه، وأكرمنا برسوله، فالحمد لله رب العالمين، يا معشر قريش، إلى متى تصرفون هذا الأمر عن أهل بيت نبيكم، تحولونه هنا هنا مرة، وها هنا مرة، وما أنا آمن أن ينزعه الله منكم، ويضعه في غيركم، كما نزعتموه من أهله، ووضعتموه في غير أهله.

Ammar ibn Yasser Shouted on that day: "O thousands of Muslims, if we were able to, and we were not able to say. decreased and humiliated, so Allah has blessed us with his Messenger (s), so thanks to Allah, Rab-Al-alameen (God of all the worlds). O Thousands of Quraysh, until when are you going to take this position from the households of the prophet, you transfer it here once, and there another!, I do not doubt that Allah will remove it from you and place it in someone other, just as you have taken it from those who were rightful for it, and placed it in those who had not right for it!"

فقال له هاشم بن الوليد بن المغيرة: يا ابن سمية، لقد عدوت طورك وما عرفت قدرك، ما أنت وما رأت قريش لأنفسها، إنك لست في شئ من أمرها وإمارتها فتنح عنها.

So said to Him, Hashim: Bin Al-Wal-eed Bin Al-Mugheerah: "O Son of Samiyah, you have went over your bounds, and do not know your worth, what are you and what Quryash has seen for it self, you have nothing to do with it, and its authority leave it.

وتكلمت قريش بأجمعها، فصاحوا بعمار وانتهروه، فقال: الحمد لله رب العالمين، ما زال أعوان الحق أذلاء، ثم قام فانصرف.

And Quryash talked, all of them, so they yelled at Ammar and rebuked him, So he said: "Thanks to Allah the God of All worlds, the people of justice are still disgraced.". Then he went.

n.JPG Pages from السقيفة وفدك الجوهري saqifa_Page_1.jpg

Pages from السقيفة وفدك الجوهري saqifa_Page_2.jpg Pages from السقيفة وفدك الجوهري saqifa_Page_3.jpg

So this is the chain for your reference:

Said: Awa'na: Said Isma'eel, Said: Al-Shuabi: told us Ab'd Al-Rahman Bin Jundm, from his father, Jundum bin Abdulah Al-Azdi said: I was sitting in Al-Madenah where Uthman was given allegiance, so I came and sat next to Al-Mida'd bin amru, So I heard him say...........

And this is the book name etc

Al-Saqeefah Wa Al-Fadak

The author of this book died in 323 AH

By Ab'a bakr Ahmad bin Abd'all-Aziz Al-Jawharu Al-Basri (لأبي بكر أحمد بن عبدالعزيز الجوهري البصري البغدادي), Died year 323 Hijrah

this event took place roughly I would say 12-13 AH. I'm Presuming the author of the book did not meet any of the people in the chain or am I wrong?

If he did not then it's pretty obvious he copied the literature from another book, yes? Which book did he copy it from..what's the original source?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So this is the chain for your reference:

Said: Awa'na: Said Isma'eel, Said: Al-Shuabi: told us Ab'd Al-Rahman Bin Jundm, from his father, Jundum bin Abdulah Al-Azdi said: I was sitting in Al-Madenah where Uthman was given allegiance, so I came and sat next to Al-Mida'd bin amru, So I heard him say...........

And this is the book name etc

Al-Saqeefah Wa Al-Fadak

The author of this book died in 323 AH

By Ab'a bakr Ahmad bin Abd'all-Aziz Al-Jawharu Al-Basri (لأبي بكر أحمد بن عبدالعزيز الجوهري البصري البغدادي), Died year 323 Hijrah

this event took place roughly I would say 12-13 AH. I'm Presuming the author of the book did not meet any of the people in the chain or am I wrong?

If he did not then it's pretty obvious he copied the literature from another book, yes? Which book did he copy it from..what's the original source?

 

 

 

(bismillah)

 

 

Brother, I am surprised you are using the years of the lifespan of a person as an objection to what he has wrote. Knowing that he died in 323.Hijrah, does not mean that he wrote it at the end of his time. Let me introduce you to a little of Narrations science. Each scholar (Shiekh) has before a scholar (Sheikh) that he listens to and narrates from, in this usually, they they write what he narrates down, or memorizes it, in accordance to the guidelines that he was taught by his previous scholars, and usually the people they surround themselves with during the process of narrating are those who are trustworthy among them first, and later the chain extends by being narrated to another person, but however it might fail in the process if it extends to a person who is deemed untrustworthy at the time. Now, your logic cannot apply, in this instance because the Scholars (mash'ayikh) that are trusted by a particular scholar are those who he relies on, on the source of his book, which I will mention soon. Take for example Al-Tirmith who died at 279.H, or Ahmad bin Su'ayb Al-Nisa'i, born in 214.H , died in 303, or Muslim Al-hajjaj died 261.H, you see that they have a long time line between them and the time of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s). So as we have explained, the process depends who the Scholars that they surround themselves with in accordance to their belief, and narrate on the guidelines passed down to them from last chain narrator to its first. So let us read what the investigator of the book Dr. Sheikeh Muhammad Hadi Al-ameeni (الدكتور الشيخ محمد هادي الأميني), has said in the introduction of the book as we read:

We read in "Al-Saqeefah Wa Al-Fadak (السقيفة وفدك), By Ab'a bakr Ahmad bin Abd'all-Aziz Al-Jawharu Al-Basri (لأبي بكر أحمد بن عبدالعزيز الجوهري البصري البغدادي), Died year 323 Hijrah, Introduced and Investigated by Dr. Sheikeh Muhammad Hadi Al-ameeni (الدكتور الشيخ محمد هادي الأميني), page #14:

يروي أبو بكر الجوهري، في كتابه عن رجال أجمعت أئمة الجرح والتعديل على توثيقهم وصدقهم، كما ترجمت لهم أصحاب المعاجم وأثنوا عليهم، وترجموا لهم وذكروهم بالتقدير والإكبار، وهم من كبار الشيوخ وفطاحل السنة، لأن المؤلف كان يستقصي في وضع تأليفه الأحاديث من منابعها السليمة، ويتوخى الأخبار عن مصادرها الموثوقة الشافية حسب اعتقاده وعلمه، وإن أتى فيه ما يخالفه الحقيقة والواقع في بعض الأحايين، فذكر أحاديث وأخبار مباينة للحق الصراح، ولذلك أشرنا إليها في الهوامش، وترجمنا رجال السند، وأقوال أئمة الجرح والتعديل فيهم، لتمتاز الأحاديث الصحيحة من السقيمة، والمعتمدة من المختلفة، ولينتقى التاريخ عن المختلقات والموضوعات، ويصفى من الشبه والضلالات.

 

Abu bakr Al-Jawhari, Narrates in his book from men that are the scholars correction have a come to a consensus on their approval and trustworthiness, just as what has been said in their bibliography by the people (scholars) of lexicons, and they praised them, and they interpreted (bibliography) them, and mentioned them with great valuation and praise, and they are of high and great scholars of the Sunnah, because the author was (sharp) in investigating to put his compiles of narrations from its origin that is preserved, and strives for the reports from its sources that are approved and preserved according to his beliefs and knowledge. And if he came with what opposes (it) the truth, and really in some, he (then) mentions narrations and reports that opposes to it with the honest truth, and that is why we pointed to it in the footnotes, and we interpreted (bibliography) the Rij'al (men) of the source, and I say that Imams of correction and fixing in them, so make clear the narrations of authenticity from the unsound, and the reliable from the different, so that history may be picked (out) of fabrications and distortions, and be clear of misconceptions and misguidance.

 

 

Then he states his "Mashayikh (Scholars), I will mention them briefly as it is too long for me to translate: Turn to page 15-18 they are the following:

1- Am'r Bin Sha'b'ah  (عمر بن شبَّة), Rank: High, a scholar in the science of reports (Akhb'ar) and arts (language) and trust (Thiq'ah) By Al-Dahabi and others (link)

 

2- Muhammad bin Zakriyah Al-Ghilabi (محمد بن زكريا الغلابي), Rank: also high, he was a Scholar in history, antiquities, and poetry, and is take in narrations from Ibn Habban, and its Trustworthy approved. Read, page 16 of the book.(link)

 

3-  Yaq'ub Bin Shay'bah (يعقوب بن شبية), one of the companions of Ahm'ad bin Al-Mua'da'l ( أحمد بن المعدل), and was a scholar at the time and has his own "Musn'ad" (source) called" Musn'ad Al-Kabeer", there was not better "Musn'ad" at the time, however he did not finish, And Imam Al-Dahabi says it was over thirty volumes. and was on the Math'hab of Imam Malik. (link) (link) (link: To his library)

 

4- Ahm'ad bin Man'soor Al-Rama'di (أحمد بن منصور الرمادي), a high rank scholar, Trusted by Imam Al-Dahabi, Ibn Abi-Hatim, Al-Dar'qatni, an was more higher in trust than Abi bakr bin Abi Shayibah ( أبي بكر بن أبي شبية), an Imam and hafi'th, and approved. (link)

 

5- Mu'gheerah bin Muhammad Muh'labi (مغيرة بن محمد المهلبي), Also a specialist in "Akhb'ar (reports)", and is Trusted, Thiq'ah (أديبا إخباريا ثقة.), (link)

 

6- Abu Bak'r Al-Waz'an (أبو بكر الوزان), he is "Sadooq (صدوق), Trustworthy and was "Thiqah ( ثقة), among the people who narrated from him. (link)

 

And then after mentioning his scholars (above) the Investigator say: (page 19)

 وله غير هؤلاء من المشايخ الثقات الذين يروي المؤلف عنهم

 

And he has others, from those scholar, who are "Thiq'at (trustworthy)" and the author narrates from them.

 

 

Note: I only wrote them briefly, you can read in detail from page 13-19.

 

and then in page (20) he mentions those scholar who took from him. I will not mention them all, is the list is long, however you can read in detail from page 20:

 

 

 كما أخذ أبو بكر الجوهري، عن مشايخ الحديث والرواية، ومن الذين أجمعت أئمة الجرح والتعديل على توثيقهم وضبطهم، كذلك يحدثنا التاريخ أن نفرا من المحدثين وشيوخ الأدب والشعر والتاريخ قد أخذوا عنه، وضعوا على ضوء أحاديثه ورواياته، مؤلفاتهم وكتبهم، وهذا إن دل على شئ فإنما يدل على تضلع الجوهري... وصدقه ووفور علمه وعبقريته، وإنه كان من كل صوب وحدب، ويأخذون عنه ويسجلون ما يلقيه عليهم من أخبار وحكايات شتى، وأحاديث مختلفة وقضايا متنوعة، في التاريخ والحديث والأدب، ولم يأت في كل هذه بما ينكر عليه.

 

 

Just as Abu bakr Al-jawhari, took from his scholars, reports an narrations, and from those who the Imams (Scholars) of correction who agreed on their approval an foundation, also the history tells us, that a group of narrators and scholars of poetry, arts, history, have too from him, and have put on the light of his narrations and reports, their books and works, and if that indicates something, it indicates the mastery of Al-Jawhari, and his trustworthiness, and the vast of his knowledge and intellect, and with all correct he was careful, and they take from him and write from what he lays out of reports and narrations of many, and different of them, and a variety of issues in history and narrations,and arts, and it did not come in all that what he rejects of.

 

and then he mentions his scholars who were students, read from page 20.

 

 

___________________________________________________________________________________________

(wasalam) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

Brother, I am surprised you are using the years of the lifespan of a person as an objection to what he has wrote. Knowing that he died in 323.Hijrah, does not mean that he wrote it at the end of his time. Let me introduce you to a little of Narrations science. Each scholar (Shiekh) has before a scholar (Sheikh) that he listens to and narrates from, in this usually, they they write what he narrates down, or memorizes it, in accordance to the guidelines that he was taught by his previous scholars, and usually the people they surround themselves with during the process of narrating are those who are trustworthy among them first, and later the chain extends by being narrated to another person, but however it might fail in the process if it extends to a person who is deemed untrustworthy at the time. Now, your logic cannot apply, in this instance because the Scholars (mash'ayikh) that are trusted by a particular scholar are those who he relies on, on the source of his book, which I will mention soon. Take for example Al-Tirmith who died at 279.H, or Ahmad bin Su'ayb Al-Nisa'i, born in 214.H , died in 303, or Muslim Al-hajjaj died 261.H, you see that they have a long time line between them and the time of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.s). So as we have explained, the process depends who the Scholars that they surround themselves with in accordance to their belief, and narrate on the guidelines passed down to them from last chain narrator to its first. So let us read what the investigator of the book Dr. Sheikeh Muhammad Hadi Al-ameeni (الدكتور الشيخ محمد هادي الأميني), has said in the introduction of the book as we read:

We read in "Al-Saqeefah Wa Al-Fadak (السقيفة وفدك), By Ab'a bakr Ahmad bin Abd'all-Aziz Al-Jawharu Al-Basri (لأبي بكر أحمد بن عبدالعزيز الجوهري البصري البغدادي), Died year 323 Hijrah, Introduced and Investigated by Dr. Sheikeh Muhammad Hadi Al-ameeni (الدكتور الشيخ محمد هادي الأميني), page #14:

يروي أبو بكر الجوهري، في كتابه عن رجال أجمعت أئمة الجرح والتعديل على توثيقهم وصدقهم، كما ترجمت لهم أصحاب المعاجم وأثنوا عليهم، وترجموا لهم وذكروهم بالتقدير والإكبار، وهم من كبار الشيوخ وفطاحل السنة، لأن المؤلف كان يستقصي في وضع تأليفه الأحاديث من منابعها السليمة، ويتوخى الأخبار عن مصادرها الموثوقة الشافية حسب اعتقاده وعلمه، وإن أتى فيه ما يخالفه الحقيقة والواقع في بعض الأحايين، فذكر أحاديث وأخبار مباينة للحق الصراح، ولذلك أشرنا إليها في الهوامش، وترجمنا رجال السند، وأقوال أئمة الجرح والتعديل فيهم، لتمتاز الأحاديث الصحيحة من السقيمة، والمعتمدة من المختلفة، ولينتقى التاريخ عن المختلقات والموضوعات، ويصفى من الشبه والضلالات.

Abu bakr Al-Jawhari, Narrates in his book from men that are the scholars correction have a come to a consensus on their approval and trustworthiness, just as what has been said in their bibliography by the people (scholars) of lexicons, and they praised them, and they interpreted (bibliography) them, and mentioned them with great valuation and praise, and they are of high and great scholars of the Sunnah, because the author was (sharp) in investigating to put his compiles of narrations from its origin that is preserved, and strives for the reports from its sources that are approved and preserved according to his beliefs and knowledge. And if he came with what opposes (it) the truth, and really in some, he (then) mentions narrations and reports that opposes to it with the honest truth, and that is why we pointed to it in the footnotes, and we interpreted (bibliography) the Rij'al (men) of the source, and I say that Imams of correction and fixing in them, so make clear the narrations of authenticity from the unsound, and the reliable from the different, so that history may be picked (out) of fabrications and distortions, and be clear of misconceptions and misguidance.

Then he states his "Mashayikh (Scholars), I will mention them briefly as it is too long for me to translate: Turn to page 15-18 they are the following:

1- Am'r Bin Sha'b'ah (عمر بن شبَّة), Rank: High, a scholar in the science of reports (Akhb'ar) and arts (language) and trust (Thiq'ah) By Al-Dahabi and others (link)

2- Muhammad bin Zakriyah Al-Ghilabi (محمد بن زكريا الغلابي), Rank: also high, he was a Scholar in history, antiquities, and poetry, and is take in narrations from Ibn Habban, and its Trustworthy approved. Read, page 16 of the book.(link)

3- Yaq'ub Bin Shay'bah (يعقوب بن شبية), one of the companions of Ahm'ad bin Al-Mua'da'l ( أحمد بن المعدل), and was a scholar at the time and has his own "Musn'ad" (source) called" Musn'ad Al-Kabeer", there was not better "Musn'ad" at the time, however he did not finish, And Imam Al-Dahabi says it was over thirty volumes. and was on the Math'hab of Imam Malik. (link) (link) (link: To his library)

4- Ahm'ad bin Man'soor Al-Rama'di (أحمد بن منصور الرمادي), a high rank scholar, Trusted by Imam Al-Dahabi, Ibn Abi-Hatim, Al-Dar'qatni, an was more higher in trust than Abi bakr bin Abi Shayibah ( أبي بكر بن أبي شبية), an Imam and hafi'th, and approved. (link)

5- Mu'gheerah bin Muhammad Muh'labi (مغيرة بن محمد المهلبي), Also a specialist in "Akhb'ar (reports)", and is Trusted, Thiq'ah (أديبا إخباريا ثقة.), (link)

6- Abu Bak'r Al-Waz'an (أبو بكر الوزان), he is "Sadooq (صدوق), Trustworthy and was "Thiqah ( ثقة), among the people who narrated from him. (link)

And then after mentioning his scholars (above) the Investigator say: (page 19)

وله غير هؤلاء من المشايخ الثقات الذين يروي المؤلف عنهم

And he has others, from those scholar, who are "Thiq'at (trustworthy)" and the author narrates from them.

Note: I only wrote them briefly, you can read in detail from page 13-19.

and then in page (20) he mentions those scholar who took from him. I will not mention them all, is the list is long, however you can read in detail from page 20:

كما أخذ أبو بكر الجوهري، عن مشايخ الحديث والرواية، ومن الذين أجمعت أئمة الجرح والتعديل على توثيقهم وضبطهم، كذلك يحدثنا التاريخ أن نفرا من المحدثين وشيوخ الأدب والشعر والتاريخ قد أخذوا عنه، وضعوا على ضوء أحاديثه ورواياته، مؤلفاتهم وكتبهم، وهذا إن دل على شئ فإنما يدل على تضلع الجوهري... وصدقه ووفور علمه وعبقريته، وإنه كان من كل صوب وحدب، ويأخذون عنه ويسجلون ما يلقيه عليهم من أخبار وحكايات شتى، وأحاديث مختلفة وقضايا متنوعة، في التاريخ والحديث والأدب، ولم يأت في كل هذه بما ينكر عليه.

Just as Abu bakr Al-jawhari, took from his scholars, reports an narrations, and from those who the Imams (Scholars) of correction who agreed on their approval an foundation, also the history tells us, that a group of narrators and scholars of poetry, arts, history, have too from him, and have put on the light of his narrations and reports, their books and works, and if that indicates something, it indicates the mastery of Al-Jawhari, and his trustworthiness, and the vast of his knowledge and intellect, and with all correct he was careful, and they take from him and write from what he lays out of reports and narrations of many, and different of them, and a variety of issues in history and narrations,and arts, and it did not come in all that what he rejects of.

and then he mentions his scholars who were students, read from page 20.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

(wasalam)

I know very well the science of Hadith dear brother and that is why I asked you for the original source OR the isnaad.

Does this chain begin with ammar (ra) or some eye witness and end with a pure and Undisturbed chain all the way down to the author OR has he taken this literature from another source ie; copied it? This is what I asked before.

If he copied it from another source what is the name of this source?

Edited by Wisdom007

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...