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In the Name of God بسم الله

I Overheard Talking About A New Iraqi Government?

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Murtada98

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Apparently Maliki is out, a thief and a supporter of ISIS and many other bad people are in. Unfortunately they spoke in the Yemeni dialect so i only got that much out of the conversation. Could someone please elaborate?

 

Unfortunately there are always supporters of ISIS, thieves, and many other bad people in the Iraqi government due to the ridiculous Iraqi constitution that requires certain percentages of each group be a part of the government. Nouri Al-Maliki has been replaced by Haider Al-Abadi - but they are from the same party, so I wouldn't expect a HUGE difference. Perhaps a slightly different approach, that's all. The 'new government' you heard about was simply the assigning of different ministers to their posts. The government is pretty much the same - the same faces have been reshuffled, that's all.

 

 

Isn't Maliki the reason why Iraq has fallen apart? he had an unfair government.

 

That's complete rubbish. The government is unfair in that the Kurds and the Sunnis have too much influence. They are minorities, and the structure of the government should reflect that. Iraq has fallen apart as a direct result of Western and Gulf influence, and the stupid constitution that the Americans left behind. 

Edited by Wizdom
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That's complete rubbish. The government is unfair in that the Kurds and the Sunnis have too much influence. They are minorities, and the structure of the government should reflect that. Iraq has fallen apart as a direct result of Western and Gulf influence, and the stupid constitution that the Americans left behind. 

thanks for clearing that up

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In Afghanistan, where there are several ethnic groups, America introduced the "Presidential System". 

 

But in Iraq, where there are less divisions, US introduced the "Parliamentary System" with lot of other problems. 

 

Why these Double Standards?

 

This parliamentary system is making life difficult for the Shia government. 


Unfortunately there are always supporters of ISIS, thieves, and many other bad people in the Iraqi government due to the ridiculous Iraqi constitution that requires certain percentages of each group be a part of the government. Nouri Al-Maliki has been replaced by Haider Al-Abadi - but they are from the same party, so I wouldn't expect a HUGE difference. Perhaps a slightly different approach, that's all. The 'new government' you heard about was simply the assigning of different ministers to their posts. The government is pretty much the same - the same faces have been reshuffled, that's all.

 

Brother, I want to know more about the present government.

 

1) Who is hoshiyar Zubairi and is he a good person?

 

2) There were 3 vice presidents including Ayad Allawi. Not this character disturbs me while he has been to Saudi Arabia many times. 

 

3) Also I want to know about the Iraqi People.

It is clear to me that US was behind ISIS. But then Maliki requested this same US for help. 

How the Iraqi people now look at US (especially the Shia population)?

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^The Shia-majority needs go for their rights... giving in too much into Sunnis (Arabs/Kurds) demands is not going to bring peace, as it did not in the last 11 years, it is doing the oppsite. Too much Sunni Arabs influence makes things worse... since they use all the influence and power to create tension and chaos, and they are provoked by Takfiris and regional Sunni countries to create problems; they simply cannot stop dreaming to take back Iraq as it used to be during Saddam.. and Kurds, they do not help in anything and in anyway and they only focus on their own indpendent Kurdistan, they even make things worse in some cases so they can benefit in between the crisis.

 

What Arab or non-Arab Sunni government ever appointed a single Shia as a minister or a governor or anything? And let them run their own army, flag and rules in every corner of the country? All key posts and ministeries with the exception of a few, pluse the presidency goes to Sunnis all these years... and all local forces be it the police, army, offices are ran by Sunnis, where in next door Saudi or Kuwait or even Shia-majority Bahrain, the Shia citizens are denied basic rights and they cannot even become a local policeman in a small citiy... forget it to except any ministery, presidency or any other important position within the government.

 

Each time Maliki or even now Abedi appointing Sunni-Arab defense ministers, finance ministers, and 10s of other ministeries and important posts... which I think is ridiculous! It is not a peaceful or united country where people of different sect with different backgrounds serve the country regardless... they call for independence or simply bring ISIS on you! And at the end of the day it is called a Shia dominated government and marginalized Sunnis and Kurds. IT SIMPLY DOES NOT PLEASE THEM.

 

Instead, the government should serve all citizens equally in social and ecnomic level.. take them away from their tribal and sectarian systems. The Iraqi government should instead empower the Shia militias and turn them into organized, non-sectarian force, so they can protect the country and use them in times of need.

 

For how many years/decades Iranians tried to appease Sunnis by aiding them in Palestine, Somalia, Sudan, Egypt, Bosnia, Syria and other countries... they all ended up calling Iran sectarian, a 'Rafidhi country' who is after Rafidhi agendas... Persian-majoosi and what not.. the Sunni masses are fooled easily!

 

Nobody is helping you, nobody is giving your rights or respect your share...

Iranians did not achieve anything until they brought in a revolution and overthrew those who oppressed them

Shias in South Lebanon suffered and had to sacrifice to achieve limited rights and freedom

Shias in Afghanistan struggled/sacrificed all these years until they got some shares finally and at least some limited freedom in their own surroundings

Shias of Yemen are heard and are making gains after 50 years of marginalization only because of Houthis and their armed movements

 

Muslim world is not Paris or Washington where a group of people can make gains and protect their rights with some other means, or where people vote and resolve their issues through elections, protests and fairness.

 

When you have options and opportunity, you need to go  for it... and when you have no options and no chance like people of Bahrain, then you cannot make a difference even if you sacrifice... where in case of Shais of Iraq, they have had the chance and opportunites all these years, but simply they are making wrong choices and taking a wrong and losing path. They are simply careless of their future, they are very disorganized, not united, and are waiting to be oppressed and ruled for some reasons, which is really annoying.

Edited by Noah-
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^The Shia-majority needs go for their rights... giving in too much into Sunnis (Arabs/Kurds) demands is not going to bring peace, as it did not in the last 11 years, it is doing the oppsite. Too much Sunni Arabs influence makes things worse... since they use all the influence and power to create tension and chaos, and they are provoked by Takfiris and regional Sunni countries to create problems; they simply cannot stop dreaming to take back Iraq as it used to be during Saddam.. and Kurds, they do not help in anything and in anyway and they only focus on their own indpendent Kurdistan, they even make things worse in some cases so they can benefit in between the crisis.

 

What Arab or non-Arab Sunni government ever appointed a single Shia as a minister or a governor or anything? And let them run their own army, flag and rules in every corner of the country? All key posts and ministeries with the exception of a few, pluse the presidency goes to Sunnis all these years... and all local forces be it the police, army, offices are ran by Sunnis, where in next door Saudi or Kuwait or even Shia-majority Bahrain, the Shia citizens are denied basic rights and they cannot even become a local policeman in a small citiy... forget it to except any ministery, presidency or any other important position within the government.

 

Each time Maliki or even now Abedi appointing Sunni-Arab defense ministers, finance ministers, and 10s of other ministeries and important posts... which I think is ridiculous! It is not a peaceful or united country where people of different sect with different backgrounds serve the country regardless... they call for independence or simply bring ISIS on you! And at the end of the day it is called a Shia dominated government and marginalized Sunnis and Kurds. IT SIMPLY DOES NOT PLEASE THEM.

 

Instead, the government should serve all citizens equally in social and ecnomic level.. take them away from their tribal and sectarian systems. The Iraqi government should instead empower the Shia militias and turn them into organized, non-sectarian force, so they can protect the country and use them in times of need.

 

For how many years/decades Iranians tried to appease Sunnis by aiding them in Palestine, Somalia, Sudan, Egypt, Bosnia, Syria and other countries... they all ended up calling Iran sectarian, a 'Rafidhi country' who is after Rafidhi agendas... Persian-majoosi and what not.. the Sunni masses are fooled easily!

 

Nobody is helping you, nobody is giving your rights or respect your share...

Iranians did not achieve anything until they brought in a revolution and overthrew those who oppressed them

Shias in South Lebanon suffered and had to sacrifice to achieve limited rights and freedom

Shias in Afghanistan struggled/sacrificed all these years until they got some shares finally and at least some limited freedom in their own surroundings

Shias of Yemen are heard and are making gains after 50 years of marginalization only because of Houthis and their armed movements

 

Muslim world is not Paris or Washington where a group of people can make gains and protect their rights with some other means, or where people vote and resolve their issues through elections, protests and fairness.

 

When you have options and opportunity, you need to go  for it... and when you have no options and no chance like people of Bahrain, then you cannot make a difference even if you sacrifice... where in case of Shais of Iraq, they have had the chance and opportunites all these years, but simply they are making wrong choices and taking a wrong and losing path. They are simply careless of their future, they are very disorganized, not united, and are waiting to be oppressed and ruled for some reasons, which is really annoying.

 

Very well said brother. 

It is too much. 

And problem is this sacrifice bringing more harm than any benefit. 

 

Any how, I am interested in the reaction of Shia population of Iraq. Do they see US as a saviour or as the backer of ISIS and all this crises?

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The foolish dream of "unity" will continue until the day comes when the party elected by the majority of the people offers 100% of the seats to sunni arabs & kurds to share.

The sad fact is that many Sunnis will never ever accept living in a nation in which the government ministers are shi'ite because they believe that sunnis are divinely Ordained to rule any nation that was once in their hands forever.

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Each time Maliki or even now Abedi appointing Sunni-Arab defense ministers, finance ministers, and 10s of other ministeries and important posts... which I think is ridiculous! It is not a peaceful or united country where people of different sect with different backgrounds serve the country regardless... they call for independence or simply bring ISIS on you! And at the end of the day it is called a Shia dominated government and marginalized Sunnis and Kurds. IT SIMPLY DOES NOT PLEASE THEM.

 

Brother, unfortunately neither Maleki nor Abadi have a choice. According to our constitution, Sunnis have to receive a certain number of ministries. So, what Dawlat Al-Qanoon do is they try and give them and the Kurds the least important ministries, or the ones where they can do the least damage. For instance, critical ministries such as the interior ministry are kept firmly in the hands of the Shia - as are justice and education, and a whole host of other ministries. Previously, the Kurds were given the foreign ministry. Whilst it is undoubtedly important, in Iraq's case it isn't AS important as other ministries as our internal struggles far outweigh any issues we have with foreign policy. However, the Kurds wreaked havoc with it, and so it was put back in Shia hands. 

 

I think the only way we can succeed in spite of the constitution that we have been lumbered with is by adopting the Lebanon model and empowering a sophisticated, respectable Shia militia with integrity. Unfortunately, we have yet to find such a militia in Iraq. 

Edited by Wizdom
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Brother, unfortunately neither Maleki nor Abadi have a choice. According to our constitution, Sunnis have to receive a certain number of ministries. So, what Dawlat Al-Qanoon do is they try and give them and the Kurds the least important ministries, or the ones where they can do the least damage. For instance, critical ministries such as the interior ministry are kept firmly in the hands of the Shia - as are justice and education, and a whole host of other ministries. Previously, the Kurds were given the foreign ministry. Whilst it is undoubtedly important, in Iraq's case it isn't AS important as other ministries as our internal struggles far outweigh any issues we have with foreign policy. However, the Kurds wreaked havoc with it, and so it was put back in Shia hands. 

 

I think the only way we can succeed in spite of the constitution that we have been lumbered with is by adopting the Lebanon model and empowering a sophisticated, respectable Shia militia with integrity. Unfortunately, we have yet to find such a militia in Iraq. 

 

To begin with the constitution, who respects it anyways? The Kurds? Sunni Arabs? In the last 5 years they all did their own things... from oil business by Kurdish government to ethnic cleansing of Arabs from Kurdish regions, to Sunni-Arabs forming military units and in-calling terrorists to destroy the country... it is not new, daily Baghdad bombings and assassinations, from terrorist Tariq Hashemi to terrorist Baathists.

 

What had been happening in Lebanon is not a good model.. the country will always REMAIN divided, president to be christian, this post for Shia and that post for Sunni, and elections on the basis of sects and religion, which is nothing more than a joke! Same with Iraq, whoever pushed for these rules (dividing and sharing governments based on ethnicity and sects) and drafted such constitution only aims to keep Iraq always divided & weak. There will be always problems and division along the sectarian lines.. I suspect that it is western forces who try to show a solution on the surface while in the background that is how and why they want to keep countries divided and in-clash... and the result is in front of our eyes, see what happened to the drama the Sunni Arab and Sunni Kurds created, they brought the entire country down within a few months and now they are digging everything based on their own 'created' drama.

 

These western imposed little problematic rules are not Quranic verses, they must be modified in order to build and rebuild the country.

 

You believe it or not, the post of defense ministry is not a joke, it is one of the 3 top posts in any country, especially in a country who was at war, who is at war with terrorists and foreign countries interference and etc... And usually they pick up a former Baathist or some puppet spy guy lived in exile for years to the the lead? I really don't see any bright future for such an army whose defense minister comes from such backgrounds... Iraq supposed build up and army to fight terrorists and keep the country together... that is what is important, the defense minister and top generals, not even the PM himself.

 

Anyhow, but I might not be very familiar with the situations on the ground, and they in the Iraqi government might have their own reasons... hopefully the entire army this time won't be given orders from top commends to surrender their posts, and give up so ISIS + Baathists could take over and kill all of the Shia-officers.

Edited by Noah-
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To begin with the constitution, who respects it anyways? The Kurds? Sunni Arabs? In the last 5 years they all did their own things... from oil business by Kurdish government to ethnic cleansing of Arabs from Kurdish regions, to Sunni-Arabs forming military units and in-calling terrorists to destroy the country... it is not new, daily Baghdad bombings and assassinations, from terrorist Tariq Hashemi to terrorist Baathists.

 

What had been happening in Lebanon is not a good model.. the country will always REMAIN divided, president to be christian, this post for Shia and that post for Sunni, and elections on the basis of sects and religion, which is nothing more than a joke! Same with Iraq, whoever pushed for these rules (dividing and sharing governments based on ethnicity and sects) and drafted such constitution only aims to keep Iraq always divided & weak. There will be always problems and division along the sectarian lines.. I suspect that it is western forces who try to show a solution on the surface while in the background that is how and why they want to keep countries divided and in-clash... and the result is in front of our eyes, see what happened to the drama the Sunni Arab and Sunni Kurds created, they brought the entire country down within a few months and now they are digging everything based on their own 'created' drama.

 

These western imposed little problematic rules are not Quranic verses, they must be modified in order to build and rebuild the country.

 

You believe it or not, the post of defense ministry is not a joke, it is one of the 3 top posts in any country, especially in a country who was at war, who is at war with terrorists and foreign countries interference and etc... And usually they pick up a former Baathist or some puppet spy guy lived in exile for years to the the lead? I really don't see any bright future for such an army whose defense minister comes from such backgrounds... Iraq supposed build up and army to fight terrorists and keep the country together... that is what is important, the defense minister and top generals, not even the PM himself.

 

Anyhow, but I might not be very familiar with the situations on the ground, and they in the Iraqi government might have their own reasons... hopefully the entire army this time won't be given orders from top commends to surrender their posts, and give up so ISIS + Baathists could take over and kill all of the Shia-officers.

 

It's not a joke, but it's not a particularly important ministry at this time. Iraq has no external wars - the interior ministry went to Badr, and it is the interior ministry that deals with ISIS and terrorism in Iraq. 

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Nobody is helping you, nobody is giving your rights or respect your share...

Iranians did not achieve anything until they brought in a revolution and overthrew those who oppressed them

Shias in South Lebanon suffered and had to sacrifice to achieve limited rights and freedom

Shias in Afghanistan struggled/sacrificed all these years until they got some shares finally and at least some limited freedom in their own surroundings

Shias of Yemen are heard and are making gains after 50 years of marginalization only because of Houthis and their armed movements

 

Muslim world is not Paris or Washington where a group of people can make gains and protect their rights with some other means, or where people vote and resolve their issues through elections, protests and fairness.

 

When you have options and opportunity, you need to go  for it... and when you have no options and no chance like people of Bahrain, then you cannot make a difference even if you sacrifice... where in case of Shais of Iraq, they have had the chance and opportunites all these years, but simply they are making wrong choices and taking a wrong and losing path. They are simply careless of their future, they are very disorganized, not united, and are waiting to be oppressed and ruled for some reasons, which is really annoying.

 

 

How I long for a mention of Pakistani Shi'as in a list like this, InshAllah a day will come when the takfiris running around in their high pants trying to 'de-rafidize the land of the pure from majoosi influence' will be cornered into their holes. 

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It's not a joke, but it's not a particularly important ministry at this time. Iraq has no external wars - the interior ministry went to Badr, and it is the interior ministry that deals with ISIS and terrorism in Iraq. 

 

Was he elected from Badr? It said that the Badr nomination for interior was rejected? And it is Sunnis who are rejecting and deciding on him?

 

"As for the post of interior minister, Iraqi Forces Alliance MP Khalidi reaffirmed the Sunni alliance’s rejection of Badr Organization leader Hadi Al-Ameri." aawsat.net

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Was he elected from Badr? It said that the Badr nomination for interior was rejected? And it is Sunnis who are rejecting and deciding on him?

 

"As for the post of interior minister, Iraqi Forces Alliance MP Khalidi reaffirmed the Sunni alliance’s rejection of Badr Organization leader Hadi Al-Ameri." aawsat.net

 

I'm pretty sure they were overruled. See, we are still the majority even if the way the government is split doesn't reflect how much of a majority we are. We can, to an extent, dictate which ministries the Sunnis and Kurds get, and which ones we get through voting. 

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I kinda feel sorry for the Sunnis and Kurds, they are like sheep without a shepherd. They are dependant on their government only, that is where their hope is placed.

 

However shias can rule government or be without a government and the shia madhab has its own special governmental system, the marja. Shias can always be united by the marjas to help fight oppression. However Sunnis are lost if their government is troubled.

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Something very significant may be achieved in Iraq IF they're ever able to lift the question of identity politics/religious creed/ethnicity from being among the determining factors in politics.

Most people have more sympathy for those who come from the same ethnic &/or religious belonging as oneself as this is a natural feature because one feels safer among people who one ca relate to through in this way. But politics is primarily about the common denominators & in a nation as Iraq it'd be better if religious affiliation could be made to play a less significant role if Iraq is to stay together as a nation & remain a democracy.

I believe it's the tribal nature of arab society that makes these conflicts so prevalent in the arab world.

The shi'ites are the vast majority, especially if on just forget about ethnicity & consider only the shi'i / sunni division. Because they are the majority the iraqi culture & politics will be dominated by them & they'll probably always remain closer to Iran than to their arab neighbours, especially with the hostility shown by the monarchies to any democratic & shi'i assertion.

Why dont they campaign for changing the constitution? Allow for a federalization of Iraq which I believe is a superior form of government as it leaves governance to the local peoples themselves & remove the constitutional demands for specific quotas of any sect/ethnicity so that only the votes count for electing a parliament.

More money could be spent on missioning for the school of the Ahlul Beyt in as many ways possible, showing the evil of the arab monarchies, their irrational hate for shi'ites & their evil policies along with their proclaiming ot 'represent islam' is now the best argument for proving the virtue of the other position by pointing out the corruption of the official arab monarchical political position.

As a side-note relevant to the future of Iraq I recommend everyone to read 'Converting Persia' - ( https://ia700705.us.archive.org/11/items/ConvertingPersiaReligionAndPowerInTheSafavidEmpire/Abisaab2004ConvertingPersia_ReligionAndPowerInTheSafavidEmpire.pdf ) about how the safavid monarchs of Iran went about turning Iran into an ithna ashari shi'i state & nation. The priority was not violent subjugation but the king appointed successive 'Sheikh al Islam's' who constructed very lever argumentations tailored not to hurt sunni sensitivites who then taught it to clerics beneath him who preached it in all corners of the country with argumentation that made it impossible not to either accept shi'ism or reject the Ahlul Beyt itself.

I think this is the way for Iraq to achieve peace: by trying to convert the sunnis to shi'ism, peacefully by creating arguments in a similar fashion.

The gulf dictators fear democracy more than anything else. Their biggest threat is the peoples demanding political representation & self governance & this is why they so prefer for the experiment of iraqi democracy to utterly fail (& for Saddam to come back from the dead) because any positive example is a huge threat to them.

Edited by Shamati
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How many British people are in the Iraqi government?

1-The President

2- Vice President 

3-Prime Minister

4-Deputy Prime Minister

5-Deputy Prime Minister

6- Minister of Foreign Affairs

7-Minister of Culture

 

This is  a British Gov.

 

They might be more Iraqi than most of Iraqis. Please do not use the same propaganda used by Sunni-Baathists just to discredit anything that is formed in Iraq!

 

Was Saddam a better Iraqi than Maliki or Abedi or Jahfari because he did not go to other countries and they did? These people took refuge in Iran or western states, because your "Rahis" the shaitan-worshiper, namely Saddam was killing them, put them in prisons, or tortured them and their families.. They also called Ayatollah Hakim an Iranian or even agent, simply because he moved there to save his life....to save his family! And if I am not mistaken you might be living outside of your native country as well, either for study-purposes or took refuge, or even may have a second-or third citizenship?!!!

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How many British people are in the Iraqi government?

 

10474199_1465736353703169_22062853046433

 

1-The President

2- Vice President 

3-Prime Minister

4-Deputy Prime Minister

5-Deputy Prime Minister

6- Minister of Foreign Affairs

7-Minister of Culture

 

This is  a British Gov.

 

First of all most of that information is wrong.

 

Second of all would you say everyone that Saddam kicked out is no longer Iraqi? That's a really strong Baathi line you are supporting.

 

Also let's face it. Iraqi is full of ignorant people. A corrupt government that sees no problem with letting their friends into high ranking positions despite their ill qualifications. Maybe some half decent educated people might run Iraq decently (I am doubtful though).

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  • 2 weeks later...

How many British people are in the Iraqi government?

 

10474199_1465736353703169_22062853046433

 

1-The President

2- Vice President 

3-Prime Minister

4-Deputy Prime Minister

5-Deputy Prime Minister

6- Minister of Foreign Affairs

7-Minister of Culture

 

This is  a British Gov.

 

This is one of the most ridiculous comments I've ever seen on SC. They have dual nationalities because lots of Da'wah members had to leave Iraq under Saddam's rule. A chunk of them went to Britain. By the way, the prime minister denounced his British citizenship. 

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