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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why Everyone Hate Converts

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El Cid

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Salam everyone, I welcome you to another one of my threads and I wish you the best of luck with the rest of your day. Before we begin, this topic's purpose is not to bash people or discourage people from joining Islam. It is simply to tell the bitter truth to converts why they are sometimes or often subjugated to hate. Why muslims treat them like second class citizens and such. So with the name of Allah, let us begin.

 

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, people of all races and backgrounds are discovering the word of Muhammad(pbuh) and mending their lives to get closer to Allah(swt). This is noble and commendable. When we hear of a person converting to Islam, there are shouts of "Mashallah" all around us and we welcome them in our community, but then we live with some of the aspects that come with dealing with new muslims.

 

1. Passion

 

It's nice to see that you've given up your old ways which are believed to be damaging your soul, but it doesn't mean you become over passionate about Islam either, going on all extremes and lows. Running away to join Hawza in Iran, a country which you know nothing about as an ordinary westerner. Freaking out on the very mention of a sin and falling quickly into judgement of another person's character when he is either confessing or looking for advice on the matter. Mentioning the events of Karbala and lives of the Imams(a.s) in topics and conversations which don't even have any link to the latter. Having a "More holy than an Ayotallah" mentality in some cases and lecturing people about the religion at every turn even though you're still learning and have alot to research. That's like someone joining a new game and lecturing a veteran player on how to quickscope with a sniper rifle. How do you expect people to like you if you're trying to be Super Muslim on a sugar rush?

 

Super Muslim pictured below:

 

2dsl3ds.jpg

 

 

2. Talking about "Past Life" while pressing the repeat button.
 
When talking to converts, you'll notice how they'll mention their old life again and again in every matter. Most typical and common dialogues will be "Yeah man, I lived the typical lifestyle of a 20 something, I smoked weed, did drugs, drank alcohol and fornicated with women. That's why I am an expert now on all these matters." Well guess what? That's the typical lifestyle of an average muslim in society these days, There's nothing widely interesting or fascinating about what you call a "past life." Do you have to mention this again and again? I am glad you're closer to Allah now, but seriously stop telling me about your past everytime we meet.
 
Past life pictured below:
 
[edited]
 
 
3. Sir! Yes Sir!
 
The majority of converts actually let themselves be treated as second class citizens, they've this over compensation of kindness when interacting with muslims. In conversation, they just sit there and listen to every like their lives depend on it and have nothing to contribute except a random hadith they read last night even if the topic is about what I ate for breakfast. Now you're thinking I am just being nice, how's that a crime El Cid? Well it is, subconciously this is making people hate you for being a pushover and having nothing to contribute aside from nodding and agreeing. Be yourself instead, have valuable input on matters and make people respect you by holding your own. No one likes the "Yes man", we like the idea of the man agreeing with our ridiculous statements but not the man himself. Stop trying to fit in with the crowd, you'll only be seen as a outsider trying to blend in. A "wannabe" to put in simple terms.
 
Fitting in pictured below:
 
psych.jpg
 
 
 
My advice: Just take it easy, A wise man once said to me that big changes only last for a small amount of time; don't try to be a saint in one day or run off to Hawza in Iran. Take things slowly and learn and always be yourself rather than fitting in.
 
Wasalam.
Edited by Muhammed Ali
Immodest picture of a man.
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Believe me girls don't hate converts. Converts are sought after - faith, without all the cultural baggage that some of our ethnic brothers often come with; despite the fact that some of their customs don't have a place in islamic traditions.

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Converts aren't syed. Whoever isn't Syed isn't pure.   :P

Please don't say such things, the common people already think we made Islam in order to rip people off through Khum

 

 

@el cid - Why shouldn't they go to Howza, they are going there for the howza and its knowledge, not the country. It is actually far better if they do take that leap and go to howza because then they will first educate themselves rather than preach without understanding, imagine if an African man in the west became a muslim, went to howza, then went to africa and started preaching to a people who have never heard of shia islam, how good will that be?

 

So I disagree on the part where you discourage them from going to a howza.

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Please don't say such things, the common people already think we made Islam in order to rip people off through Khum

@el cid - Why shouldn't they go to Howza, they are going there for the howza and its knowledge, not the country. It is actually far better if they do take that leap and go to howza because then they will first educate themselves rather than preach without understanding, imagine if an African man in the west became a muslim, went to howza, then went to africa and started preaching to a people who have never heard of shia islam, how good will that be?

So I disagree on the part where you discourage them from going to a howza.

I think you failed to understand the point, I was saying they become overpassionate for example "Omg! Let's go to Hawza this instant." Crawl before you can walk.

Edited by Haydar Husayn
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I think you failed to understand the point, I was saying they become overpassionate for example "Omg! Let's go to Hawza this instant." Crawl before you can walk.

let them become over passionate about going to the Howza in qom or Najaf, they won't regret it, they will be treated very well there. especially in qom, and they can return any time they want, So I don't see why they shouldn't feel over passionate about the howza, I remember when I found out that the education there is free, accommodation free, plus spending money ( a lot ) I was left wondering why more people don't go, then I realised I have to go.

 

so whats the problem with being over passionate about going to howza.

Edited by Sayed Faridoon Taha
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let them become over passionate about going to the Howza in qom or Najaf, they won't regret it, they will be treated very well there. especially in qom, and they can return any time they want, So I don't see why they shouldn't feel over passionate about the howza, I remember when I found out that the education there is free, accommodation free, plus spending money ( a lot ) I was left wondering why more people don't go, then I realised I have to go.

so whats the problem with being over passionate about going to howza.

Hawza was just an example, man. I wasn't talking about the institution itself. Just everything in general. For example this one convert sold everything and moved to be a helper at Imam Ali(a.s)'s roza. Then he became frustrated, moved back to Michigan and left Islam. Big changes in a small time don't stick too long. --> Point.

Edited by Haydar Husayn
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Hawza was just an example, man. I wasn't talking about the institution itself. Just everything in general. For example this one convert sold everything and moved to be a helper at Imam Ali(a.s)'s roza. Then he became frustrated, moved back to Michigan and left Islam. Big changes in a small time don't stick too long. --> Point.

then maybe you should use that man as an example and not the howza.

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then maybe you should use that man as an example and not the howza.

Or maybe you can focus on the main point instead of picking one out and debating it unnecessarily.

Edited by Haydar Husayn
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then maybe you should use that man as an example and not the howza.

I think he is saying that from born muslim point of view, going to hawza is big step . It usually means that the person heading to hawza is devoting his life for the cause of Islam.

From the born Muslims point of view as well, the new converts who has just joined, has so many cultural struggles with islam and muslims, this convert moving to hawza is not a sign of devotion.

It is just a journey to discover then leave.

From born Muslims point of view, this just takes some of the hawza sacredness .

Edited by Haydar Husayn
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you were discouraging people from a good thing/act (Howza) your obligation is encourage towards good not discourage.

What Chaotic Muslim said above you ^

Edited by Haydar Husayn
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I really hope this topic goes to trash pit, that's where it belongs. 

OP! you should change the topic of this thread. You are not representing muslims, you are representing typical desi mentality, full of hate and arrogance. Change the topic title to "why desis hate people from other cultures, or any one who is different from them".  I am not a convert, but I am treated exactly like this and most desis hate me. I will only talk about your 3rd. point. You desis have this annoying habit of having hours long useless debates. Any person who listens to these debates can tell that you people debate just for the sake of debate. You repeat many things over and over again like fools and most of the time, it doesn't even make sense what you are talking about. I also keep quiet in these conversations, not because I am being polite. It's because they are annoying and give me a headache and I think they are complete waste of time. You make fun of how politicians act on tv, but the fact is that you all are like them. Your conversations are like the conversations of your stupid and corrupt politicians. Reasonable people don't think that nice and polite people are pushovers and don't deserve respect. You will be very surprised to find out that in civilized societies, these qualities are considered good qualities, and nice, polite people actually get respect from people. 

Once again, I hope this topic goes to trash pit. 

Edited by Mokhtar2012
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I really hope this topic goes to trash pit, that's where it belongs. 

OP! you should change the topic of this thread. You are not representing muslims, you are representing typical desi mentality, full of hate and arrogance. Change the topic title to "why desis hate people from other cultures, or any one who is different from them".  I am not a convert, but I am treated exactly like this and most desis hate me. I will only talk about your 3rd. point. You desis have this annoying habit of having hours long useless debates. Any person who listens to these debates can tell that you people debate just for the sake of debate. You repeat many things over and over again like fools and most of the time, it doesn't even make sense what you are talking about. I also keep quiet in these conversations, not because I am being polite. It's because they are annoying and give me a headache and I think they are complete waste of time. You make fun of how politicians act on tv, but the fact is that you all are like them. Your conversations are like the conversations of your stupid and corrupt politicians. Reasonable people don't think that nice and polite people are pushovers and don't deserve respect. You will be very surprised to find out that in civilized societies, these qualities are considered good qualities, and nice, polite people actually get respect from people. 

Once again, I hope this topic goes to trash pit. 

 

Thanks for participating. I enjoyed reading your very intellectual reply.

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 I think El Cid has a point.

 

I know, but I meant to imply that sometimes we come across converts who are quite eager to excell in their religious studies (whether they actually remain consistant at this is another matter entirely) when most Muslims around them arent in the same boat so to speak. Not saying this is common or not, just pointing out that el-cid seemed to have been making a bit of a generalisation.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood. 

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I know, but I meant to imply that sometimes we come across converts who are quite eager to excell in their religious studies (whether they actually remain consistant at this is another matter entirely) when most Muslims around them arent in the same boat so to speak. Not saying this is common or not, just pointing out that el-cid seemed to have been making a bit of a generalisation.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood. 

You are correct !

El Cid is making one of these eastern people generalizations, he is collecting the needed points to get banned  :lol:

Point about Hawza though is not restricted to converts. Generally people are weary from those half or less than half hawza wannabes who attended hawza for few months then came back, hijacked the pulpits and start saying non sense of their own ideas instead of spreading the words of Ahlulbayt. Pulpit of Ahlulbayt is sacred and it should be saved for Ahlulbayt words only. There are many instances where i attended a lecture and the man on pulpit start religious claims and accusations of those who don't agree with him.

 

This poor outcome is a factor that can affect negatively the relation between people and the hawza. Hawza is seen as Cambridge, now imagine a prof from Princeton advocating some pseudo science.

The thing is that Hawza is religious institution with responsibility. It aims to spread the ilm of Ahlulbayt so it is really hard to turn people away based on ethnicity, background, nationality, years as Muslim etc.

But on the other hand, Hawza is the place that manufacture trustworthy men that we can relay upon in times of war and times of peace. Leaders of high caliber. It hurts when we see it being judged or sought by new converts as a high school or regular collage.

It also hurts that a convert seek hawza only to end up coming back with negative feelings and poor outcome, then blaming the outdated system there.

 

There are million ways to learn religion, going to hawza dose not on itself prove your devotion nor your commitment nor it deserve to be a reason to see yourself better than born muslims who know little about hawza, because they may know more about the dynamics of Islam more than what they know about the theories.

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Hawza was just an example, man. I wasn't talking about the institution itself. Just everything in general. For example this one convert sold everything and moved to be a helper at Imam Ali(a.s)'s roza. Then he became frustrated, moved back to Michigan and left Islam. Big changes in a small time don't stick too long. --> Point.

 

I think its just because some people have an urgency/desperation that other people dont have so much. Like, some people are so driven to answer their existential questions, find identity, find meaning, find belonging somewhere that they run into experiences full on. They have a lot of expectations of how their perceived needs will be met by this new exploration into an identity too, so when its working...and working...theyre getting somewhere...then...o...doubt starts to creep in, disappointment...expectations not quite met...then they get impatient and then they start to think they have to abandon this identity and try out a new one because its all supposed to work a certain way; theyre supposed to feel a certain way etc and theyre not any more. Other people have those questions and have the same human needs/desire, but theyre not in so much pain/suffering that its like 'enlightenment or suicide' type thing, its more of a meandering, gentle exploration; a contentment with smaller steps, gradual realisations etc. I agree that that is probably a safer option, but sometimes the full on approach does end up working for some people.

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Speaking as a convert: I don't see myself as being special, as being different from any other muslim. A lot of the problem stems from the (undue) respect afforded to us from others; we sometimes get spoken of in overly-glowing terms. Example: I stopped in to pray at a masjid in a midwestern-US city when I was there on vacation. Upon leaving, I was stopped by an elder subcontinental uncle where he asked me if I had converted. I replied in the affirmative. He then responded by saying (and I quote): "you are very brave".

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(salam)

 

Why Everyone Loves REverts 

 

1. Passion

 

It's nice to see that you've given up your old ways which are believed to be damaging your soul and it's great that you've become passionate about Islam too. Going to join Hawza in Iran or Iraq is an important decision that should be mulled over but your decision to do so is great. It doesn't matter that you don't "know anything" about the country as an ordinary westener--most non-Iranians don't know much about Iran as well as most non-Iraqis don't know much about Iraq and yet they still go to Hawza. Having the taqwa and fierce belief in Allah عز وجل to "freak out" over a sin shows your willingness to change as a person for the pleasure of your Lord instead of for the pleasure of your community or ethnicity. Mentioning the events of Karbala and lives of the Imams (as) and other Islamic topics in conversations is great to remind others of their true purpose on this Earth. It's great that you keep up your akhlaq when informing "born-and-stayed Muslims" about the religion so that you don't have a "holier than though" mentality. Some may be jealous of your passion and find it sickening, but strive to be that "Super Muslim" if you wish to for the pleasure of Allah عز وجل--your Lord and Creator.

 

2. Talking about your "Past Life" 

 

When talking to converts, you'll notice how they'll mention their old life again and again in every matter. Many typical and common dialogues will be "Yeah man, I lived the typical lifestyle of a 20 something, I smoked weed, did drugs, drank alcohol and fornicated with women. That's why I am an expert now on all these matters and can tell you how to remove yourself from these desires." Well, this is great! This is becoming the typical lifestyle for some Muslims in society these days. You should mention this to them and show them the ill-effects so that they may turn to the Righteous Path. I am glad you're closer to Allah now!

 

3. "Sir! Yes Sir!" says the Soldier of Allah عز وجل

 

The majority of converts show an abundance of kindness when interacting with "born-and-stayed" Muslims. In your conversations, we love it when you contribute to a discussion with a hadith you memorized so that we may learn from it. It doesn't matter if the topic is about breakfast or something unrelated--we appreciate it. Now you're thinking, "I'm just being nice and trying to be a good mu`min and Shi`i. It isn't a big deal, Recoup." Well it isn't and that's what you should be doing, but we still appreciate it. Now don't be a pushover and try to make people respect you by acting the way they want you to like not being religious which may be a problem for some Muslims. Stop trying to fit in with the crowd through following other people's culture and such, but instead strive to follow the laws of Allah عز وجل and have the utmost love for the Prophet (pbuh) and A`immah (as) and then you'll gain people's respect because of your virtue. You are not an outsider trying to blend in. You are a human being trying to please your Rabb.

Edited by Recoup
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Convert here, can confirm, I went through a stage where I tried to be "Super Muslim" and thought I was better than everyone. Alhamdulillah I got over this. Converts get an idea of "What a Muslim should be" in their head, and oftentimes our longstanding brothers and sisters in faith don't fit that archetype. I thought this was a well thought out piece, and it is pretty relevant to the experience of new converts.

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Sniff! Nobody likes me...

 

Where'd I put that belt again?

 

Oh, bother. Can't find it.

 

Can't even do that right.

 

Guess I'll keep going then. See y'all tomorrow, insha Allah.

 

;)

 

EDIT:

For those unfamiliar with my dark style of humor, I'm kidding. I'm fine. Don't call the police.

Edited by kadhim
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Convert here, can confirm, I went through a stage where I tried to be "Super Muslim" and thought I was better than everyone. Alhamdulillah I got over this. Converts get an idea of "What a Muslim should be" in their head, and oftentimes our longstanding brothers and sisters in faith don't fit that archetype. I thought this was a well thought out piece, and it is pretty relevant to the experience of new converts.

 

Thank You, muffins. I am glad you enjoyed reading. :) 

 

wasn't the wife of Imam Mahdi a convert ? Or the wives of others imams? or even some of the wives of the prophets? Do we hate those holy people in Islam?

 

Topic: Dealing with converts in today's society.

You: Some emotional reply without thinking.

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Hate converts? We love them. What majority are you talking about? This is a severely offensive thread.

For all of you reverts/converts out there. You are amazing, brave, and extremely special. May Allah keep you blessed always. You are MUCH MUCH better that many of us born muslims.

This topic shouldn't be open. Totally agree mokhtar.

Edited by 786repenting
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We love reverts because they join Islam and hate converts because they leave Islam when they were Muslim.

 

Reverts also do it by choice, so they deserve credit, I like reverts and have deep respect for them.

 

Still think El cid should have said "Go to Howza, but be patient and stay there a few years".

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