Why Mwm Is Letting Tuq Use Shias For His Purposes?

[Sipahi110]

Why Majlis Wahdat-e-Muslimeen Pakistan (MWM) (Urdu: مجلس وحدت مسلمین‎) is cooperating with TuQ and letting TuQ use Shias for his ulterior purposes?

TuQ has insulted Imam Ali (AS) by making statement that Imam Ali (AS) government and governments of first three caliphs were equivalent. Plus, TuQ has numerous times equated himself as Imam Hussain (AS) and his agitation as against Yazid. That is an insult to Ahlul Bayt (AS) and the sacrifice given by Imam Hussain (AS).

Aren't these leaders of MWM followers of Imam Ali (AS), then why they are ignoring sayings of Imam (AS) and specifically the following one by letting themselves and common Shias of Pakistan be used by TuQ for his ulterior purposes.

"Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: During civil disturbance be like an adolescent camel who has neither a back strong enough for riding nor udders for milking."

1. قَال(عليه السلام): كُنْ فِي الْفِتْنَةِ كَابْنِ اللَّبُونِ ، لاَ ظَهْرٌ فَيُرْكَبَ، وَلاَ ضَرْعٌ فَيُحْلَبَ.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Sipahi110

[Haydar Karrar]

(salam)

First off, in my humble opinion, it is not wrong to compare an uprising or struggle against an unjust government to the rising of Imam Husayn (as). In fact, it is good that in these troubled times, people look to him as an example. I don't understand why so many people are mad at Tahir ul Qadri comparing his rising to that of Imam Husayn (as), in fact, he did not even compare them. He just gave an example. All he said was that Imam Husayn (as) left his home to fight oppression and we must do the same. That, my friend, is not a comparison. It is an example, and a great one at that.

 

Second of all, he has brought so much unity between Muslims. The Ahlul Sunnah and Ahlul Tashayyu' who used to kill each other years ago now give their daughters and sisters into marriage with one another! Are you telling me stopping bloodshed and causing marriages and happiness is bad? His followers even chant "Nara e Haydari" despite being from the Ahlul Sunnah.

 

 Really study the rule of Imam 'Ali (as), you will find the period of his Khilafa, which was 5 years according to the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama'ah, was filled with bloodshed and people breaking away from Islam. Of course, this is no fault of the Imam, this is the fault of the people. And the Imam (as) definitely handled them well. You cannot blame a person form the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama'ah saying that the rule of our Imam was equal to the rules of the 3 men. In fact, it is good he says that, because most of them believe it was a lot worse.

 

I think what our 'Ulema are doing by supporting him is amazing and I am very happy to see it. Tahir ul Qadri has helped give the voiceless a voice in Pakistan. With him having the upper hand, the Shi'a will also have the upper hand.

 

And that saying form Imam 'Ali does not necessarily mean not to take action. If that is what it mean, the Agha Khomeini, Sayed Sistani, and many of our 'Ulema have acted against the saying. Not to mention Imam Husayn (as). The saying does not mean to just sit around and accept oppression. Rather, it refers to not letting people take advantage of you or your message.

[Sipahi110]

Wa-alekum Salaam,

"You cannot blame a person form the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama'ah saying that the rule of our Imam was equal to the rules of the 3 men. In fact, it is good he says that, because most of them believe it was a lot worse."

I think you haven't understood Imam Ali (AS), his most important attribute was justice. The rule of other three Caliphs was progressively more unjust, while Imam Ali (AS) rule was exemplified with just rule such that he was martyred because of his intensity of justice.

TuQ is bringing unity not "for" something but "against" the government. It is not for spreading message of Islam but breaking laws for self servicing.

Ayatollah Khomeini or Ayatollah Sistani have never violated the Imam's saying as they have never been used by others for ulterior purposes, but have led against oppression themselves.

TuQ has many times referred to this government and previous governments as Yazid, this is another way of enemies of AhlulBayt to minimise what Yazid did.

[Haydar Karrar]

(salam)

 

You are very right, Imam 'Ali (as) rule was very much based on justice, and in no way was any of the instability of the government his fault. You cannot hand someone a dog krap and expect them to turn into gold. However, from the point of view of most of the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama'ah, and anyone with eyes, the rule itself was unstable. Of course, unstable only because of people like Mu'awiyah and the Khawarij, but unstable nonetheless. The Imam (as) handled those people well. No one could have done a better job than our beloved Imam. But you must remember, that from the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama'ah's point of view, the 3 men hold a higher rank than Imam 'Ali (as), so to say he is equal with them is a praise for him when it comes out of the mouth of the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama'ah.

 

Tahir ul Qadri is bringing unity. That is all. Whether it is for the government or against it, the spilling of innocent blood has decreased very much. And the government is not the government of a Ma'soom, nor that of a scholar. It is a government of self-righteous clowns who wont spare a rupee for a dying person, and have kept Pakistan looking like krap for many years now. It is in no way wrong or Haraam to protest this type of government.

 

Assuming we take the saying of Imam 'Ali (as) to mean what most people think it means, then Agha Khomeini was wrong in initiating the revolution, and Sayed Sistani was wrong to allow himself to become an icon for the people in times of war.

However, if we take his saying to mean that one should not allow others to take advantage of his political point of view in times of turmoil, and not just sit back and accept what is coming to him, then everyone is right and happy.

 

It is no sin to compare a corrupt rule to the rules of Nimrood, Fir'awn, or Bani Umayyah. Many innocent people suffered under the hands of Zia ul Haq, and I would say he was a Yazeed of his time. Likewise, many people have suffered under the rule of the Sharif family, and it is in no way a sin to say that they are the Bani Umayyah of their time.

Comparing a corrupt ruler to Yazeed is not minimizing what Yazeed did, I cannot understand how anyone would think that. Rather, it is shedding light on the crimes that ruler is committing.

[seekingadvice1]

(salam)

You are very right, Imam 'Ali (as) rule was very much based on justice, and in no way was any of the instability of the government his fault. You cannot hand someone a dog krap and expect them to turn into gold. However, from the point of view of most of the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama'ah, and anyone with eyes, the rule itself was unstable. Of course, unstable only because of people like Mu'awiyah and the Khawarij, but unstable nonetheless. The Imam (as) handled those people well. No one could have done a better job than our beloved Imam. But you must remember, that from the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama'ah's point of view, the 3 men hold a higher rank than Imam 'Ali (as), so to say he is equal with them is a praise for him when it comes out of the mouth of the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama'ah.

Tahir ul Qadri is bringing unity. That is all. Whether it is for the government or against it, the spilling of innocent blood has decreased very much. And the government is not the government of a Ma'soom, nor that of a scholar. It is a government of self-righteous clowns who wont spare a rupee for a dying person, and have kept Pakistan looking like krap for many years now. It is in no way wrong or Haraam to protest this type of government.

Assuming we take the saying of Imam 'Ali (as) to mean what most people think it means, then Agha Khomeini was wrong in initiating the revolution, and Sayed Sistani was wrong to allow himself to become an icon for the people in times of war.

However, if we take his saying to mean that one should not allow others to take advantage of his political point of view in times of turmoil, and not just sit back and accept what is coming to him, then everyone is right and happy.

It is no sin to compare a corrupt rule to the rules of Nimrood, Fir'awn, or Bani Umayyah. Many innocent people suffered under the hands of Zia ul Haq, and I would say he was a Yazeed of his time. Likewise, many people have suffered under the rule of the Sharif family, and it is in no way a sin to say that they are the Bani Umayyah of their time.

Comparing a corrupt ruler to Yazeed is not minimizing what Yazeed did, I cannot understand how anyone would think that. Rather, it is shedding light on the crimes that ruler is committing.

I second you. Well said.

Please remember that TUQ does not belong to our sect so we cant expect him to undermine the other Caliphs.

He is a lover of Ahlul Bayt and makes it a point to mention Imam Hussain(A.S) in his speeches. Please note he does not need to mention Imam Hussain(A.S) to get public's praises since majority of the polulation of Pakistan are sunni and not shia. While I agree he is not a saint, but he is someone who is standing up for the Shias of Pakistan. Moreover he makes it a point to emphasize on the importance of the Ahlul Bayt in his speeches which has had a huge impact on the Sunni population of the country who follow him. We love everyone who loves the Ahlulbayt. The onky greivance we have is with those who try to undermine their importance.

Edited August 19, 2014 by seekingadvice1

[Sipahi110]

Imam Husain (AS), even when stopped by forces of Yazid, did not want confrontation. He asked for a peaceful way out.

Breaking laws of country is not the advice of AhlulBayt(AS) and definitely it is not appropriate to subjugate yourself to the leaders of those who consider first 3 caliphs as superior or same as Imam Ali (AS). These people know how yo fool Shias by using names of AhlulBayt (AS).

Remember, we Shias is Ali (AS) don't believe in mob rule. Today you are part of a mob with someone else against somebody else. Tomorrow it is quite possible that a group like ASWJ has a bigger mob in front of the same assemblies and demand some law against Shias of Islam, what you will do. No one will help you.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Sipahi110

[Sipahi110]

MWM must get out of this drama by TuQ, as TuQ is using women as shield.

Deplorable act and Shias must not be part of it

Plus, TuQ party is going to violent very soon.

[Haydar Karrar]

(salam)

I think our respected 'Ulema know what is better for our Deen. Imam Husayn (as) did look for a peaceful way out, but I don't see Tahir ul Qadri unsheathing swords and loading guns. What has he done that is not peaceful? If he does get violent pretty soon, it will be what is needed. In fact, he has been pretty lenient with the police and the government considering what they did in Model Town and how many people they arrested without charge simply because they were walking in the direction of the protest. When It was necessary, Imam Husayn (as) fought, and I believe Tahir ul Qadri will do they same. If he does anything against our Fiqh, then I am quite sure our 'Ulema will pull out of the operation.

 

So breaking the laws of a country are not advised by the Ahlul Bayt? Agha Khomeini, assuming we take this to be always true, is one of the biggest criminals. When they talk about not breaking laws, it does not mean smiling and shaking the hands of those oppressors who have killed, raped, and tortured your followers and people like you simply for not agreeing with them. When there is oppression, it must be stopped. I don't know why you are defending these people.

 

You said the Shi'a should not follow a leader who views Imam 'Ali (as) as equal to the 3 men. Well, I guess the Sharif Family, the Bani Umayyah of Pakistan, are Nusayri? or 'Alawi? How in the world can anyone say this?!?! The Sharif family is one of the biggest enemies of the Shi'a. They have had so many killed in the northern provinces. They have persecuted our 'Ulema. And now that Tahir ul Qadri wants to help us, some of us always try to find fault with him. What the hell is this?

 

Why are some people showing such bigotry and hatred for Tahir ul Qadri, who mourns for Imam Husayn (as) and respects the Ahlul Bayt (as) very much? How the hell can a Shi'a support the Sharif family, who have persecuted and killed Shi'a and adhere to strict Salafi ideology (except for keeping beards)? What the hell is wrong with Tahir ul Qadri?

 

You always bring up the fact that he views Imam 'Ali (as) as equal to the 3 men. I keep trying to tell you that is good. Do you know why that is good. Because Tahir ul Qadri is from the Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama'ah! And most of them believe Imam 'Ali (as) to be inferior to the 3 men. So to say he is equal to them is a huge praise for Imam 'Ali (as) when said by someone who is from the Ahlul Sunnah.

Not only that, but I always hear followers of Tahir ul Qadri chanting "Nara e Haydari". I have never heard them chant Nara for the 3 men. Tahir ul Qadri openly praises the Ahlul Bayt (as), and openly curses Mu'awiyah and Yazeed. What more can a Shi'a want out of the Ahlul Sunnah?

 

I think some people are just angry that intellectuals and qualified people are finding their way into Pakistani politics. These people are anti-Pakistan Pakistanis who want uneducated politicians and would be happy to see Pakistan wiped off the map. They want more poverty, more hunger, more bribing in the courts, more rapes, more killings, and more extermination of the Shi'a.  

[abduljabbar]

TuQ is using the Shias for his own personal agenda and leadership.

He has never been consistent in his beliefs.

The Shias should not become pawns for others.

The Shia revolutionaries, Imam Khomeini, were not used for other politican's personal gains. They were themselves leaders of revolutions.

It is very naive for Shias to become starstruck by the likes of TuQ. We are appreciative of the fact that he praises the Ahlul-Bayt a.s. but it does not mean he has become our leader.

Just because some Shias are remaining aloof from the "inqilab" marches does not mean they are supporting the government. They could be the biggest enemies of the SHarif brothers, but they do not want to be used by flip-flop politicians for their own personal agendas. Shias should have more self-respect.

TuQ continuously changing attitude is for all to see on Youtube. Leopards do not change their spots, but foxes like these keep changing their colours every day.

Yes, we respect him for the fact that he is not militant against Shias and expresses love for the Ahlul-Bayt. But it does not mean that we join his brigade and make him a leader in a "revolution".

And if you wish to see the seerah of the Imams a.s. it is very clear their stance. The Banu Abbas took the banner of leading a revolution against the Umayyads and bringing back the imamat to the rightful heirs and restoring Islam. They fooled a few Shias, but the Imams refrained from that, and in the end they saw that the Banu Abbas created their own caliphate that was just as brutal as the Umayyads. Many failed and successful revolutions happened during the times of the Imams, all in the name of justice and Islam and uprooting despotic rulers, but the Imams never joined any party. It is very clear from the Seerah.

[Sipahi110]

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234987370-the-munfiqat-of-tahir-al-qadri/

Another thread.

Why don't we contemplate and be careful that we don't surrender our leadership to those who have contrary views to Ahlul Bayt.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Sipahi110

[Haydar Karrar]

(salam)

First of all, in that thread, he speaks on the authenticity of Nahjul Balagha, something which the Shi'a themselves have debated on. Second he expresses two different views, is a man not allowed to change his opinion? I don't see how you people are so against Tahir ul Qadri. Do you have eyes and ears? Do you not hear about and see all of the unity and peace he has brought? Maybe you have eyes and ears but don't have brains to comprehend what goes into them.

 

And you people talk as if though we have made Tahir ul Qadri our Wali ul Faqih! We are simply joining forces with him, he is not our leader. Now, if you don't even want us making peace with him, then you don't know what your talking about. Can we not even make peace with him? You all will say "No! because he view Imam 'Ali as equal.....blah...blah....blah.", so the problem, in essence, does not lie with Tahir ul Qadri, it lies with all Ahlul Sunnah in general. You are those people who believe all Ahlul Sunnah will be in hell and are bad people no matter what they do. You have closed minds and do not see past your own little world. Why don't you just flat out say it? Instead of criticizing strong Ahlul Sunnah leaders, why don't you just say you hate all ahlul Sunnah. Because you seem to use their beliefs as reason they should not be joined.

 

And some of you say he is using the Shi'a for his own personal agenda. What damn agenda?!? You speak as if though he is bringing something Haraam or evil to Pakistan. All he wants his country to be in peace. Is this a crime? And then their are some people who really hate the Sharif family, and also really hate Tahir ul Qadri (whom our 'Ulema support). You people are exactly like the Khawarij. You find fault in everything.

 

It is idiotic to break off and leave protests of peace for a better government simply because of the organizer's school of thought. It is hate, bigotry, and prejudice. Some of you will try to say "No, its not because he is Sunni...", but it really is. do you know how I can tell? Because you always cite his Ahlul Sunnah beliefs when criticizing him. Nothing else, always his 'Aqeedah. People like this need professional help. If these people can actually bring me authentic reports of Tahir ul Qadri planning for "Pakistan domination" or some wacked up "agenda", then I would consider believing these people. But what do they do? The just gather parts of his speeches out of context and make it look like he is bad by leaving commentaries on YouTube. These peole are not only amateurs, half the time they don't even know what their talking about.

 

I see no legitimate reason behind you people disliking what Tahir ul Qadri is doing. And by the way, neither do our 'Ulema.

[Sipahi110]

Anyone who uses women with danda to attack anyone is Zalim.

Our Ahlulbayt (AS) has told us never to be on the side of Zalim.

TuQ is zalim and anyone, even with Amama who supports him is doing against sayings of Ahlulbayt.

Plus, remember tomorrow ASWJ can come with ten times bigger crowd and may ask laws against followers of Ahlulbayt (AS).

This support by MWM for TuQ will result in very bad consequences for Shias.

[abduljabbar]

 

 

First of all, in that thread, he speaks on the authenticity of Nahjul Balagha, something which the Shi'a themselves have debated on. Second he expresses two different views, is a man not allowed to change his opinion? I don't see how you people are so against Tahir ul Qadri. Do you have eyes and ears? Do you not hear about and see all of the unity and peace he has brought? Maybe you have eyes and ears but don't have brains to comprehend what goes into them.

 

Nobody is ignoring the good work that he has done and his emphasis on unity, and we all appreciate it. We don't have an issue with working with him.

But shias are rightfully suspicious of him because of his changing policies and some of his attempted refutations of shias and a wider goal to make his sect to be the true sect which combines all the good in the shias and sunnis, thus negating the necessity to become a shia if one wishes to follow the ahlul-bayt. One needs to have an observing mind and knowledge of certain issues to understand these things.

 

 

And you people talk as if though we have made Tahir ul Qadri our Wali ul Faqih! We are simply joining forces with him, he is not our leader. Now, if you don't even want us making peace with him, then you don't know what your talking about. Can we not even make peace with him?

 

The whole TuQ movement is centred around his leadership and qiyadat, this is very clear from the protests. He is also well-known for being big-headed and not listening to advice. If you want to join him, you have to accept his leadership.

This is not about making peace with him. We are all at peace with him. But we don't want him to lead us. Simple as that.

 

 

And some of you say he is using the Shi'a for his own personal agenda. What damn agenda?!? You speak as if though he is bringing something Haraam or evil to Pakistan. All he wants his country to be in peace. Is this a crime? And then their are some people who really hate the Sharif family, and also really hate Tahir ul Qadri (whom our 'Ulema support). You people are exactly like the Khawarij. You find fault in everything.

 

What agenda? The agenda of thousands of leaders who use "justice" and "equality" and "peace" and such buzzwords to bring himself to a position of power.

I don't know what you mean by "you people" but just as we are find fault with those who support TuQ, you are find fault at us not supporting mwm and criticising them. It does not mean we criticise everything.

The key difference between us and khawarij who choose to compare us to is that we decide to follow the way of the Imams a.s. and seek the guidance from their seerah ... and the khawarij are kafir.

This is a clear demonstration of a lot of members of the mwm - it is all for compromising the self-respect of the shias for the sake of sunni-shia unity, but call those shias who do not share their view kafir and such terms.

 

 

It is idiotic to break off and leave protests of peace for a better government simply because of the organizer's school of thought. It is hate, bigotry, and prejudice. Some of you will try to say "No, its not because he is Sunni...", but it really is. do you know how I can tell? Because you always cite his Ahlul Sunnah beliefs when criticizing him. Nothing else, always his 'Aqeedah. People like this need professional help. If these people can actually bring me authentic reports of Tahir ul Qadri planning for "Pakistan domination" or some wacked up "agenda", then I would consider believing these people. But what do they do? The just gather parts of his speeches out of context and make it look like he is bad by leaving commentaries on YouTube. These peole are not only amateurs, half the time they don't even know what their talking about.

 

It is nothing to do with the organiser's school of thought, we are all for working together with the sunnis, but on a platform on which all parties are equals and partners. the mwm may not regard TuQ as a leader, but everybody else in the TuQ protest brigade is.

If TuQ is all for peace and working against  agovernment, why doesn't he join with Imran Khan? it only makes sense. no revolution will work unless the leaders are on one platform. if this happens this movement will become huge.

The only reason why TuQ will not join any other movement is because he will then need to accept the fact that Imran Khan is a more popular leader and he will need to be below him and accept his leadership above his own, as imran khan is now a real politician and the chairman of the second largest opposition party and he is running a province. the truth is, as i have come to know through inside sources, is that TuQ wants to lead this. and if you know him personally, or even listen to his speeches on youtube or on the news nowadays, you see subtle hints of his massive ego. If you can't see this, then no wonder such tyrants get voted into power.

 

Don't get us wrong, we are all for unity, I am for unity with all sunnis, whichever sub-sects they belong to, but politics is a dirty game and the shia ulama need to ensure that they are given respect by the counterparts to any political alliance and equal footing.

[Sipahi110]

Seeing MWM head representing Shias standing behind & supporting Vice Chairman of PTI, which has supported Takfiri Terrorists TTP in their killing of innocents for last few years, was very painful.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Sipahi110

[Sipahi110]

These MWM leadership has placed Shias at disrepute and vulnerable by being part of this violence.

What if tomorrow ASWJ brings a mob to demand action against Shias?

Shias need to reject this leadership.

[Ibn al-Hussain]

(salam)

The police is already trying to arrest Allamah Raja Nasir.

 

Wassalam

Edited August 30, 2014 by Ibn al-Hussain

[AnaAmmar1]

Seeing MWM head representing Shias standing behind & supporting Vice Chairman of PTI, which has supported Takfiri Terrorists TTP in their killing of innocents for last few years, was very painful.

 

imran khan is a taliban apologist but he spoke against LeJ.which is stupid of him because LeJ is taliban wing of killing shias.

 

These MWM leadership has placed Shias at disrepute and vulnerable by being part of this violence.

What if tomorrow ASWJ brings a mob to demand action against Shias?

Shias need to reject this leadership.

 

ASWJ actually did a procession few days ago in ISB against this shia+brelvi duo.They demanded nezam e sahaba

i am not a fan of MWM either but their stance with brelvis can strengthen their political status.

[Sipahi110]

Last year on Ashura juloos, so-called Shia leadership violated basic principle of non violence taught by the Caravan of Bibi Zainab by becoming offensive in a march which symbolizes a march of oppressed. She and rest of the caravan took all kinds of abuses without even saying a non polite word. That event last year moved Shias from the group of being oppressed to the one's who do kill innocents.

Now, MWM being used by TuQ for his own ulterior purposes will cause more damage to Shias who want to spread true message of Islam as taught by Ahlulbayt.

These groups have no right to let others use emotions that Shias have for Karbala and declare these political fights as an event between Yazidi and Hussaini forces.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Sipahi110

[AnaAmmar1]

Lets not make exceptions for anyone.

 

Names like karbala,ashura,macca,madina and kufa etc have always been used by individuals.Its the context which shows speaker's maturity.

 

There has been a lot of discussion on Ashura jaloos last year.Lets not forget how many imambargas were burnt.People who opened fire on innocent(if there were any) should be condemned.

 

This fight between TuQ and Imran khan with Govt have nothing to do with Karbala and Ashura.

its just a political rivalry between shia+brelvi politcal figures with saudi backed PML(n).

Edited August 30, 2014 by AnaAmmar1

[Sipahi110]

No exceptions.

But the message of Ahlulbayt (AS) is that regardless of how much others oppress you, you shall never take justice in your hand and in process do any unjust action. Unfortunately, people don't take lesson from Imam Ali (AS) for the 25 years he was in opposition but still held the values of a Islam high such that even his enemies had to admit that.

A Shia cannot benefit if he gives his control to those who don't considers Ahlulbayt (AS) as the best after our Prophet (Saaws).

Shia can be friend to them but no giving up guardianship to those.

It is time to learn about our own religion as taught by Ahlulbayt (AS), not to align ourself with groups which have their own agenda.

[AnaAmmar1]

self defence is wajib.

 

mwm have already made a fool out of themselves when they supported imran khan pre-election campaign.

 

They are not giving their guardianship to anyone.It is just a political stance.

Mwm is separate from PAT but they have decided to support PAT in their inquilaab march.

After this march is over,mwm wont be sitting with PAT anymore.

[Sipahi110]

Self defense is when someone violates your zone, not when you are violating.

When MWM is participating in Azaan ritual at night without "Haya ala Khair il Amal", they have given up guardianship of Imam Ali (AS).

All actions have consequences.

[AnaAmmar1]

its debatable who started the conflict.however we have seen footage of ASWJ guys throwing rocks.(i m not defending killing innocents and burning that masjid e zarrar and public property)

i already told you that PAT is leading this movement not MWM and their azaan is different.Is this hard to understand?

[Sipahi110]

its debatable who started the conflict.however we have seen footage of ASWJ guys throwing rocks.(i m not defending killing innocents and burning that masjid e zarrar and public property)

i already told you that PAT is leading this movement not MWM and their azaan is different.Is this hard to understand?

One thing many Shias forget, when they lead / participate in any Moharram / Safar procession that they are emulating Qafala led by Bibi Zainab from Karbala to Kufa to Shaam and back via Karbala to Medina. In that procession, all kinds of abuses were thrown at progeny of Imam Husain (AS), which included beating, chaining, abuses words, etc. But none of the real followers of Ahlulbayt (AS) in that procession ever reacted to those abuses by even cursing them. Our role models are Ahlulbayt (AS), we need to behave much better.

Same is true, if you want to understand the following khutba of Imam Ali (AS) in the heat of the battle of Siffin. He risked losing his supporters but condemned them from abusing the Syrians led by son of Abu Sufyan.

*******

Sermon 206: I dislike you starting to abuse them….

During the battle of Siffin Amir al-mu'minin heard some of his men abusing the Syrians, then he said:

ومن كلام له (عليه السلام)

وقد سمع قوماً من اصحابه يسبّون أهل الشام

أيام حربهم بصفين

I dislike you starting to abuse them, but if you describe their deeds and recount their situations that would be a better mode of speaking and a more convincing way of arguing. Instead of abusing them you should say, "O Allah! Save our blood and their blood, produce reconciliation between us and them, and lead them out of their misguidance so that he who is ignorant of the truth may know it, and he who inclines towards rebellion and revolt may turn away from it."

إِنِّي أَكْرَهُ لَكُمْ أَنْ تَكُونُوا سَبَّابِينَ، وَلكِنَّكُمْ لَوْ وَصَفْتُمْ أَعْمَالَهُمْ، وَذَكَرْتُمْ حَالَهُمْ، كَانَ أَصْوَبَ فِي الْقَوْلِ، وَأَبْلَغَ فِي الْعُذْرِ، وَقُلْتُمْ مَكَانَ سَبِّكُمْ إِيَّاهُمْ: اللَّهُمَّ احْقِنْ دِمَاءَنَا وَدِمَاءَهُمْ، وَأَصْلِحْ ذَاتَ بَيْنِنَا وَبَيْنِهِمْ، وَاهْدِهِمْ مِنْ ضَلاَلَتِهِمْ، حَتَّى يَعْرِفَ الْحَقَّ مَنْ جَهِلَهُ، وَيَرْعَوِيَ عَنِ الْغَيِّ وَالْعُدْوَانِ مَنْ لَهِجَ بِهِ.

Alternative Sources for Sermon 206

[AnaAmmar1]

as if we are not oppressed enough in pakistan :rolleyes:

 

how dare anyone throw a rock against peaceful protesters?
this is a country where we are free to lead processions.if some one stops us from doing what is lawful is a criminal.

No religion or law denies self defence.indeed all of them emphasize on it.

these takfiris will no stop on just throwing rocks.They want to kill us in every way possible.

 

i dont know why you guys copy paste a lot of stuff.just make your point according to relevant situation.

[Sipahi110]

Problem with some is that ignore the path set by Ahlulbayt (AS) and follow their own wishes.

They are even rejecting reading the guidance given by Ahlulbayt (AS).

All I will say is what Imam Ali (AS) said, since it is the need of the day.

"O Allah! Save our blood and their blood, produce reconciliation between us and them, and lead them out of their misguidance so that he who is ignorant of the truth may know it, and he who inclines towards rebellion and revolt may turn away from it."

[AnaAmmar1]

you can not decide how to react in different situations.every situation is different from other.

 

i am sure there are a lot of other sermons and ahadiths present,a lot of people apply them according to their ideas.

 

wahabis defend their every action with ayah's of Quran.Taliban quote a lot of ahadiths for their own benifits.watch some of their videos and you will understand.

 

This is just wrong thinking and wrong implementation.

[Sipahi110]

If you can't refer to Ahlulbayt (AS), all I can say learn and do Taffakur before write your own opinion.

In Islam given by Ahlulbayt (AS), personal opinion doesn't count!

No Qiyaas!!

[AnaAmmar1]

thats what i am saying.

 

you apply those sermons and ahadiths on modern circumstances according to your own opinion.

these same texts can be used by a different person in a different context.

[Sipahi110]

Please stop making your Qiyaas, give a concrete example where Ahlulbayt (AS) provide another mechanisms for the time of fitna.

I will leave this conversation with you by the following saying of Imam Ali (AS)

1. Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said: During civil disturbance be like an adolescent camel 1 who has neither a back strong enough for riding nor udders for milking.

1. قَال(عليه السلام): كُنْ فِي الْفِتْنَةِ كَابْنِ اللَّبُونِ ، لاَ ظَهْرٌ فَيُرْكَبَ، وَلاَ ضَرْعٌ فَيُحْلَبَ.

Fi-Amaanillah.

[AnaAmmar1]

What i am trying to say is, your definition of fitna might be different from other person's definition.

 

i think there is no point in discussing further.i understood what you are trying to say.

 

(wasalam) 

[Sipahi110]

Congratulations to MWM and their supporters, TuQ has declared that the current government is worse than Yazid and Ibne Zayad. - Speech TuQ @ approx 10:50 AM on Sept 1, 2014.

Maybe now you can change the Ziyaraat Ashura and Ziyaraat Warisa and replace References to Yazid, Ibne Zayaad, Mawiya, others with the names of the rulers of this government.

May Allah SWT save Shias of Ali ibne Abi Talib from these leaders of MWM!

Edited September 1, 2014 by Sipahi110

[Sipahi110]

Now another stupidity by MWM, announcing support of PTI in NA 246.

Isn't PTI has been supportive of talking with TTP terrorists and has never condemned them by name.

Also, the recent winner in AK won with support of Ludgvani - ASWJ aka Sipahe Sahaba chief.

Can't they take lesson from Ali ibne Abi Talib (AS) by staying away from declaring support of any one.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Sipahi110