Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Ayat Al-Wilayah - Tafsir Ibn Abi Hatim

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

Under the commentary of Sūrat al-Mā'idah, verse 55, of the tafsīr of Ibn Abi Hātim, the following is written:

 

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو سَعِيدٍ الْأَشَجُّ , ثنا الْفَضْلُ بْنُ دُكَيْنِ أَبُو نُعَيْمٍ الْأَحْوَلُ , ثنا مُوسَى بْنُ قَيْسٍ الْحَضْرَمِيُّ , عَنْ سَلَمَةَ بْنِ كُهَيْلٍ , قَالَ: تَصَدَّقَ عَلِيٌّ بِخَاتَمِهِ وَهُوَ رَاكِعٌ فَنَزَلَتْ: {إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتَوْنَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ}    -  المائدة   : 55

 

Abū Sa'īd al-Shajj narrated to us, from al-Fadhl ibn Dukayn Abū Na'īm al-'Ahwal, from Mūsā ibn Qays al-Hadhramī, from Salamah ibn Kuhayl: He said: Alī gave sadaqah (charity) while in rukū', so the verse came down "Verily your guardian is Allāh, and His Prophet, and those who believe who perform prayer and give charity while they bow"[5:55]

 

Reliability of the narrators, one by one:

 

Abū Sa'īd al-Shajj: In Taqreeb al-Tahdīb, Ibn Hajar says "thiqah", al-Dhahabi says "sheikh al-Islām" in Tadhkīrat al-Huffādh, Ibn Hibbān notes him in al-Thuqāt, and Ibn Abī Hātim says "thiqah sadūq" in al-Jarh wa al-Ta'dīl. Yahyā ibn Ma'īn says "Nothing bad regarding him"

 

Therefore, no one can question his reliability.

 

Al-Fadhl ibn Dukayn Abū Na'īm al-'Ahwal: Ibn Hajar says "thiqah thabt" in Taqreed al-Tahdīb, al-Dhahabi says "hāfidh thabt in Tadhkīrat al-Huffādh, Ibn Hibbān includes him among the thuqāt, and Ibn Abī Hātim says "thiqah" in al-Jarh wa al-Ta'dīl. 

 

Therefore, no one can question his reliability.

 

Mūsā ibn Qays al-Hadhramī: Ibn Hajar says "sadūq" in Taqrīb al Tahdīb, al-Dhahabī said "thiqah" in al-Kashif, Ibn Hibbān included him amongst the thuqāt, Ibn Abī Hātim said "nothing against him" in al-Jarh wa al-Ta'dīl, and Yahyā ibn Ma'īn said "thiqah"in Tahdeeb al-kamāl.

 

Finally, Salamah ibn Kuhayl: Ibn Hajar says "thiqah" in Taqrïb al-Tahdīb, al-Dhahabi also said "thiqah" in al-Kāshif, Ibn Hibbān included him in the thuqāt, and Ibn Abi Hatim also said "thiqah" in al-Jarh wa al-Ta'dīl. Yahyā ibn Ma'īn also said "thiqah" in Tahdīb al-Kamāl.

 

Obviously, this narration is found in both Sunni and Shi'a tafsīrs of the Qur'an, but I wanted to find an authentic chain of narrators from sunni books and I think I can safely say this one is authentic, as all of the narrators are thiqah and the scholars of ilm ar-rijāl have quite clearly confirmed this.

 

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

Edited by Ali al-Hadi
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

السلام عليكم

Finally, Salamah ibn Kuhayl: Ibn Hajar says "thiqah" in Taqrïb al-Tahdīb, al-Dhahabi also said "thiqah" in al-Kāshif, Ibn Hibbān included him in the thuqāt, and Ibn Abi Hatim also said "thiqah" in al-Jarh wa al-Ta'dīl. Yahyā ibn Ma'īn also said "thiqah" in Tahdīb al-Kamāl.

He was a tabi'i, which means that he didn't actually see this event taking place, meaning that this chain is weak because of a gap.  You would have to bring proof that Salamah got this narration from someone who witnessed it happening (a sahabi) insha'Allah

 

and Allah(swt) knows best

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(salam)
(bismillah)

 

This cannot be considered Sahih. For various reasons.

 

1.) Salamah b. Kuhayl is from the younger Tabi'i, and has only narrated from a few companions. According to his son, he was born in the year 47 AH and died on Ashura in the year 121 AH. He was not an eye witness to the event, and he didn't narrate this from a Sahabah. He lived in Kufah, which was probably the reason why he didn't narrate from that many companions.

 

2.) Not to mention, Salamah was accused of being a Shi'a. As attested to by al-Dhahabi as well as the Shi'a Muhammad Ja`far al-Tabasi in his Rijaal al-Shee`ah fee Asaaneed al-Sunnah, pg. 151, person # 46. This normally isn't a problem, unless the hadith he narrates is a pro-Shi'a hadith.

 

3.) Musa b. Qays al-Hadarami is a problematic narrator. Ibn Jawzi has accused him of fabricating hadith. al-`Ijli said he is from the ghulat of the Shi'a and he narrates munakir. Abu Hatim al-Razi said "La ba'as bihi" which according to his son and many others, when he says that it means that you can write his hadith but cannot use it as proof. (See: Tuqadimah Jarh wa Ta`deel, vol. 2, pg. 37). This is also proved by Abu Hatim's statements regarding Muhammad b. Sulaym al-Isbahaani, he says "La Ba'as bihi", then he says you can write his hadith but cannot use it as proof (See: Jarh wa Ta'deel, vol. 7, pg. 267). His Shi'ism has also been attested to by Ibn Hajar and al-Dhahabi. As well as the Shi`ah Muhammad Ja`far al-Tabasi in his Rijaal al-Shee`ah Fee Asaaneed al-Sunnahi, pg. 394, person # 118). Once again, since this is a pro-Shi'i hadith, then him being a Shi`ah is problematic.

 

4.) Fadl b. `Amr b. Hammad Dukayn has also been accused of being Shi'a according to Ibn Hajar, as well as the Shi`ah Muhammad Ja`far al-Tabasi in his Rijaal al-Shee`ah fee Asaaneed al-Sunnahi, pg. 333, person # 100

 

(salam)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Veteran Member

(bismillah)

 

You will [usually] never win trying to out rijal them because their rijal system is built on a super structure of Nasb. This is a link to a book by the famous Muhaddith al-Ghumari proving the hadith Madinat al-`Ilm: https://archive.org/details/Fath_AlMalik_AlAli

 

I'm just going to put here some of the chapter titles that I found intriguing:

 

فصل: بطلان شرط قبول راية المبتدع من أن يكون غير داعية إلى بدعته

 

Section: The invalidity of the condition for accepting the narration of the innovator that he must not proselytize his innovation

 

فصل: بيان اشتراط قبول رواية المبتدع الذي روى ما لا يؤيد بدعته هو من دسائس النواصب لإبطال ما ورد في فضل علي بن أبي طالب

 

Section: Statement about qualifying of accepting the innovator's narration that does not support his innovation being from the machinations of the Nawasib in order to invalidate what has come in praise of `Ali b. Abi Talib عليه السلام

 

بيان بطلان بعض الأحاديث ولو كانت في الصحاح كحديث مسلم في فضل أبي سفيان

 

Statement on the invalidation of some of the reports, even if they are in Authentic Collections like the report of Muslim in praise of Abi Sufyan

 

في أمان الله

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

To weaken a man in a chain of transmission =/= weak hadith, that has been transmitted through 10 chains of transmissions, from 10 Sahabis to many Tabi'een, accepted by many of their Muhaqqiqs and ours, accepted by many of their Mufassirs as the Sababul Nuzuol and considering it Mutawatir.

Modern day Sunnis just want to invent new religion that had never existed before,turning haram to halal and halal to haram.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

(bismillah)

 

You will [usually] never win trying to out rijal them because their rijal system is built on a super structure of Nasb.

What is this bold letter means ?

 

Fallacy logic ? Nabi Muhammad is not ma'sum/infalible ?

Sorry i donot read yet this thread yet. So this is only my current response. Thank you. Salam

Edited by myouvial
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

(bismillah)

 

By super structure of Nasb I mean the general pattern of weakening the Shi`a and Rawafidh while giving tawtheeq to Nawasib. How they try really hard to filter out Tashayyu` and accuse people and hadith through that avenue while the opposite is largely untrue. Here is a topic related: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235015707-response-to-narrator-criticism-in-sunni-rijal/

 

في أمان الله

Edited by Abu Tufayl
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

(bismillah)

 

By super structure of Nasb I mean the general pattern of weakening the Shi`a and Rawafidh while giving tawtheeq to Nawasib. How they try really hard to filter out Tashayyu` and accuse people and hadith through that avenue while the opposite is largely untrue. Here is a topic related: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235015707-response-to-narrator-criticism-in-sunni-rijal/

 

في أمان الله

 Brother, this is their ultimate Nasb:

http://www.shiaweb.org/v2/news/article_141.html

 

 ليت أشياخي ببدر شهدوا    

     جزع الخزرج من وقع الأسل

     لأهـلَّوا واستهلَّوا فرحا   

     ثم قالوا يا يزيد لا تُشل

     قد قتلنا القرم من ساداتهم  

     وعدلناه ببدر فاعتدل

     لعبت هاشم بالمُلك فلا  

     خبر جاء ولا وحي نزل

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

 Brother, this is their ultimate Nasb:

http://www.shiaweb.org/v2/news/article_141.html

 

 ليت أشياخي ببدر شهدوا    

     جزع الخزرج من وقع الأسل

     لأهـلَّوا واستهلَّوا فرحا   

     ثم قالوا يا يزيد لا تُشل

     قد قتلنا القرم من ساداتهم  

     وعدلناه ببدر فاعتدل

     لعبت هاشم بالمُلك فلا  

     خبر جاء ولا وحي نزل

Yazid's poem in front Imam Zainal Abidin as ? Yes, it shows that Yazid is a kafir.

Edited by myouvial
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

(salam)

(bismillah)

 

This cannot be considered Sahih. For various reasons.

 

1.) Salamah b. Kuhayl is from the younger Tabi'i, and has only narrated from a few companions. According to his son, he was born in the year 47 AH and died on Ashura in the year 121 AH. He was not an eye witness to the event, and he didn't narrate this from a Sahabah. He lived in Kufah, which was probably the reason why he didn't narrate from that many companions.

 

2.) Not to mention, Salamah was accused of being a Shi'a. As attested to by al-Dhahabi as well as the Shi'a Muhammad Ja`far al-Tabasi in his Rijaal al-Shee`ah fee Asaaneed al-Sunnah, pg. 151, person # 46. This normally isn't a problem, unless the hadith he narrates is a pro-Shi'a hadith.

 

3.) Musa b. Qays al-Hadarami is a problematic narrator. Ibn Jawzi has accused him of fabricating hadith. al-`Ijli said he is from the ghulat of the Shi'a and he narrates munakir. Abu Hatim al-Razi said "La ba'as bihi" which according to his son and many others, when he says that it means that you can write his hadith but cannot use it as proof. (See: Tuqadimah Jarh wa Ta`deel, vol. 2, pg. 37). This is also proved by Abu Hatim's statements regarding Muhammad b. Sulaym al-Isbahaani, he says "La Ba'as bihi", then he says you can write his hadith but cannot use it as proof (See: Jarh wa Ta'deel, vol. 7, pg. 267). His Shi'ism has also been attested to by Ibn Hajar and al-Dhahabi. As well as the Shi`ah Muhammad Ja`far al-Tabasi in his Rijaal al-Shee`ah Fee Asaaneed al-Sunnahi, pg. 394, person # 118). Once again, since this is a pro-Shi'i hadith, then him being a Shi`ah is problematic.

 

4.) Fadl b. `Amr b. Hammad Dukayn has also been accused of being Shi'a according to Ibn Hajar, as well as the Shi`ah Muhammad Ja`far al-Tabasi in his Rijaal al-Shee`ah fee Asaaneed al-Sunnahi, pg. 333, person # 100

 

(salam)

 

 

 

(bismillah)

 

 

The Logic of accusing one for being Shi'ee, or because his Gha'le in Shia'sim, is a pity, a weak excuse only those who have narrow minded ideology based on weak established facts whom they deem correct. Perhaps one must ask, what is the "Rija'al" law according to them, when someone is accused of Shi'sim? I will not discuss the details, but it seems weak excuses, arguing from desire and not reasoning. That is why, before one takes a methodology from a certain sect, that is built on their ideology, its important to understand how such was established in the first place. However we do not have this "Bias" Narrow minded idea, rather we take even from those who are "General" in their "Madh'ab", meaning not Shi'a, but with the majority like others.

 

 

Read in: "Al-Fahras'aat (الفهرست), By Shiekh Al-Tus'si (شيخ الطائفة الأمام أبي جعفر محمد بن الحسن الطوسي) (died 460. H) Association & Investigation (تحقيق مؤسسة نشر الفقاهة), Page #116: Person #242:

 

حفص بن غياث القاضي، عامي المذهب

Hafs Bin Ghiy'aath Al-Qathi: A layman (general) of Doctrine (Religion)  

 

 

له كتاب معتمد، أخبرنا به عدة من أصحابنا،

 

(He) has a book that is trusted, told us of it, a number of our companions (men)

 

 

_____________________________________________________

The Correct logic, is for one to look at ones trust, and not criticize simply for his doctrine. However excluding "Nawasib".

 

__________

(wasalam)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(salam)

(bismillah)

First off brother, in our hadith literature, when it says `Āmī (عامي), it means that they were Sunni , it doesn't not mean "general or layman". What if that narrator that you quoted narrated something in praise of the three calips, would we take that haditg? Of course not, al-Tusi has mentioned the principles we must adhere to when we take narrations from those whose madhhab isn't ours.

(salam)

Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

(bismillah)

First off brother, in our hadith literature, when it says `Āmī (عامي), it means that they were Sunni , it doesn't not mean "general or layman". What if that narrator that you quoted narrated something in praise of the three calips, would we take that haditg? Of course not, al-Tusi has mentioned the principles we must adhere to when we take narrations from those whose madhhab isn't ours.

(salam)

 

 

(wasalam)

Sorry, The translation above is according to the word (Out of the context) "Am'ee". Exact Dictionary translation. I assumed you would already know its "Sunni" (In the context). Second, The point I'm pointed out, is that we do not exclude one of the narrators because of their "Madh'ab", which is illogical.

 

________________

(wasalam)

Edited by TheIslamHistory
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(salam)
(bismillah)

Second, The point I'm pointed out, is that we do not exclude one of the narrators because of their "Madh'ab", which is illogical.

Of course that is illogical, but the Sunnis neither exclude narrations from the Shee`ah in their works. We can accept narrations from a non-Imami as long as the narration isn't promoting the others beliefs. The same principle has been used by Sunnis in accepting Shee`ah narrations.

 

(salam)

Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

(bismillah)

Of course that is illogical, but the Sunnis neither exclude narrations from the Shee`ah in their works. We can accept narrations from a non-Imami as long as the narration isn't promoting the others beliefs. The same principle has been used by Sunnis in accepting Shee`ah narrations.

 

(salam)

 

(wasalam)

However, isn't sometimes that we quote narration to prove a certain beliefs that might b unfavorable to Ahlul-Sunnah? Knowing that All the narrators are "Thiq'ah"?

 

Opinion?

____________

(wasalam) 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

(Bismillah)

In the end, the tool of preferencing that both the Shi'ah and the 'Aammah use is biased, extremely sectarian, and based on the assumption that a particular creed, law, and historical narrative is correct while the others are deviance.

Anyone who bases their religion on this man-made science and claims it is objective needs to reflect deeply and read more.

في أمان الله

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...