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In the Name of God بسم الله

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(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

I am aware that it is a general belief that Hindus are kafir. But are they? Because in their religion there is also a concept of monotheism. they(a larger part of them) believe that there is only one creator of the world ishwara/brahma/vishnu/parmeshwara but sometimes god manifests himself in physical forms on earth and they are called avatars or bhagwans .This is shirk, but does shirk makes someone kafir? if yes then since Christians believe in trinity , are they kafir too?

 

what actually makes someone kafir? what is the defination of kafir?

 

Thanks in advance for those who are willing to help.

 

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How is someone a kaafir? If he doesn't believe in Usool ad-Deen`.

• Tawheed — The Oneness of Allaah [سبحانه وتعالى]

• `Adaala — Justice of Allaah [سبحانه وتعالى]

• Prophethood — Believing in the Prophets of God [عليهم السلام]

• Immamah of Ahlulbaayt — To believe in the 12 A`immah of Ahlulbaayt [عليهم السلام]

• Ressurection — To believe in Yaawm al-Qiyaamah`

________________________________

* Note - Other Muslim groups whom do not believe in the Immaamah of Ahlulbaayt [عليهم السلام] are Muslim due to the ignorance of most of them.

Edited by DaBeast313
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  • Advanced Member

How about ahlal-kitabs? they dont believe in all the prophets of Allah s.w.t ...neither in any imam (as)

Same rule applies to them as the other Muslim groups, except the other Muslims are closer. However, some scholars consider Ahlul-Kitaab to najis` (impure) because they have been deviating ever since the Holy Qur`aan came.

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Same rule applies to them as the other Muslim groups, except the other Muslims are closer. However, some scholars consider Ahlul-Kitaab to najis` (impure) because they have been deviating ever since the Holy Qur`aan came.

As far as I know majority of scholar don't consider ahlul-kitaab najis to be najis and hence not kafir.

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Hindus are without a doubt kafir due to their polytheism. It doesn't matter whether or not they have some concept of monotheism, perhaps it is a remnant of Islam from whatever prophets (As) came to them, but today they are definitely kafir.

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Not all Hindus are polytheists. It's a case by case issue. My dad is Hindu but sees the various gods as facets of the One, he compares it to the divine names we use in Islam. Others pray to the individual gods as if they were separate entities.

And there is debate about what constitutes kufr. If anything, Hindus are usually mushrikeen because they accept multiple divinities, not kafir, if kafir means those who reject Allah. If we go with dabeast I think most of humanity is in hell. Including all Sunnis, Jews, and Christians. Which is not what I or, to my knowledge, the majority of scholars believe.

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• But the Holy Qur`aan makes it clear sister -

- And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

[surat 'Ale `Imraan, 3:85]

- “Verily, those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikoon will abide in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures”

[al-Baayinah 98:6]

- And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah . They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying.

[surat al-'An`am 6:116]

• Secondly, I'm sure you realise that most people disobeyed the Prophets of God [عليهم السلام] right? The people of Prophets Nooh, Loot, Hood, `Eesah and others [عليهم السلام] right?

Can you give me one piece of evidence supporting your opinion? I can bring more verse from the Holy Qur'aan and Ahaadeeth` al-Shareefah if you want.

And can you give me some major scholars saying kuffaar can go to Heaven? From the classical ones to some of the modern ones, because I've always heard of my opinion.

Edited by DaBeast313
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Not all Hindus are polytheists. It's a case by case issue. My dad is Hindu but sees the various gods as facets of the One, he compares it to the divine names we use in Islam. Others pray to the individual gods as if they were separate entities.

And there is debate about what constitutes kufr. If anything, Hindus are usually mushrikeen because they accept multiple divinities, not kafir, if kafir means those who reject Allah. If we go with dabeast I think most of humanity is in hell. Including all Sunnis, Jews, and Christians. Which is not what I or, to my knowledge, the majority of scholars believe.

I very much agree to you, sister.I tend to find their religion very complex ,hard to get what they actually believe because of hundreds of sub-sects among them each having a difference in basic beliefs like monotheism or polytheism.But to my understanding and with interactions with them i have arrived to this conclusion that majority of them believe in a supreme entity who has power over all and has no partner. But there are others too who have a polytheistic belief.

 

That's the point of my contention ,what constitutes kufr? i would like to see an academic response to this based on quran and hadeeth.

thanx for your reply.

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[jean_valijean]

That's the point of my contention ,what constitutes kufr? i would like to see an academic response to this based on quran and hadeeth.

thanx for your reply.

[jean_valijean]

• Believe in what the Holy Qur`aan asks you to believe in. If you disbelieve, you're considered a kaafir`.

(e.g) - the belief in One God is mentioned in the Holy Qur`aan, if you do not believe in the Oneness of God, you're considered a kaafir.

Edited by DaBeast313
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• Believe in what the Holy Qur`aan asks you to believe in. If you disbelieve, you're considered a kaafir`.

 

I thought that was the definition of non Muslims. 

e.g Christians don't believe in quran yet they are not considered kafir

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If you don't believe in the basic tenets of Islam you are a kafir.

 

If you don't believe in the basic tenets of Islam you may or may not be a mushrik.

 

You can pretty much test every religious group on these two scales.

 

 

Basic tenets: Allah, The Prophet and the Qiyamah.

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Imam al-Sadiq (AS) said when interpreting the Qur’anic verse: “And most of them do not believe in Allah without ascribing partners to Him”, ‘This refers to ascribing partners in Allah's obedience, not [just] in His worship.’

Al-Kafi, V. 2, P. 397, No. 4

I agree that most people have rejected the messages of their prophets, but I don't think I have the right to classify people as kafir or mushrik without knowing their individual beliefs, and even then, it's not my place to go around thinking everyone is going to hell. I find that leads me to arrogance, which is a major sin.

Like if Hindus are kufar, then my dad should be kafir, but he wouldn't deny that the Qur'an is a book of God and that Muhammad (s) was a messenger. He does believe in extra books, like the early Hindu texts, which excludes him as a strict Muslim. Hindus also see Jesus as an incarnation of Vishnu, and we did a nativity play at our temple one year.

I'll have to find something about whether mushrikeen are kufar. The Qur'an does list them as separate categories, so I think that's a preliminary argument.

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The Holy Qur`aan does not differentiate between the idolators and kuffaar`. Because they were mushrikeen and therefore kuffaar`.

Proof -

Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the UNBELIEVERS, for that they JOINED COMPANIONS with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

[surat 'Ale `Imraan, 3:151]

I thought that was the definition of non Muslims. 

e.g Christians don't believe in quran yet they are not considered kafir

That's because most are ignorant.

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If you don't believe in the basic tenets of Islam you are a kafir.

 

If you don't believe in the basic tenets of Islam you may or may not be a mushrik.

 

You can pretty much test every religious group on these two scales.

 

 

Basic tenets: Allah, The Prophet and the Qiyamah.

Are christians and Jews kafir? Because they don't believe in the prophethood of Mohammad s.a.w.

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Explain these verses:

Believers, Jews, Sabaeans and Christians -

whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right -

shall have nothing to fear or regret.

-- Sura 5:69

Those who believe (in the Qur'an),

and those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures),

and the Christians and tha Sabians, -

any who believe in Allah and the Last Day,

and work righteousness,

shall have their reward with their Lord

on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

-- Sura 2:62

What is the qualitative difference between the Christians in these sets of verses and the Christians in 9:30?, below:

The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?

-- 9:30

Are christians and Jews kafir? Because they don't believe in the prophethood of Mohammad s.a.w.

A kafir, by etymological definition, is a farmer who covers the seeds in the ground with a fertiliser. In the context of belief, a kafir is someone who conceals the truth deliberately.

Problem: no one, generally speaking, rejects the truth on purpose. At least, not the average Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc.

Edited by Chair Pundit
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Hindus have many differing schools of thought within their own ranks, so its wrong to pass a blanket judgement on all of them. Some of them are pantheists who view all of the world as God, others are dualists (not in the Zoroastrian sense) who believe existence is primarily composed of two (dual) realities: divine consciousness and matter. 

 

The Bhagavad Gita also says that those who want to be liberated from this world should not use any images for contemplating God.

 

You can say however that its "shirky" to believe God reveals himself in many forms/manifestations; because this belief makes God into a body, limited by time and space, just like how catholics make God into a body by saying He has a Son and a Holy Spirit.

 

Which would make them kafir..

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Not all Hindus are polytheists. It's a case by case issue. My dad is Hindu but sees the various gods as facets of the One, he compares it to the divine names we use in Islam. Others pray to the individual gods as if they were separate entities.

And there is debate about what constitutes kufr. If anything, Hindus are usually mushrikeen because they accept multiple divinities, not kafir, if kafir means those who reject Allah. If we go with dabeast I think most of humanity is in hell. Including all Sunnis, Jews, and Christians. Which is not what I or, to my knowledge, the majority of scholars believe.

Mushrikeen are kafir by definition. They are ascribers, ascribing being an act of disbelief/shirk.

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Many Muslims seem to think that they understand the definition of  kafir and mushrik very well.

 

That is not true at all.

 

For one thing, both words relate to one's own mind-set, not the beliefs of his "professed" religion.

 

Because every one's "real" religion is not necessarily the same as his "professed" religion.

 

In any case, the assessment of who is a believer or a kafir or a mushrik can best be done by God alone.

 

I am amazed how Muslims love to judge other people  when they can hardly be certain of their own destiny.

 

They may not be aware but many Muslims may be graded by God as kafir or mushrik.

 

And in fact, many will be.

 

And likewise on the Day of Judgment, many non-Muslims will be graded as believers and pass through the gates of heaven.

 

God's judgment will not depend on the religion of our birth which we automatically follow or profess to follow.

 

Many of those whom Muslims think are kafir or mushrik are people very dear to God.

 

The subject is too complex for discussion here.

 

The definition of both words is much more complex than meets the eye.

 

Come judgment day, we are probably in for lots of extremely unpleasant surprises.

 

As I said, the actual assessment of both kafir and mushrik should not be attempted by men in this world.

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In any case, the assessment of who is a believer or a kafir or a mushrik can best be done by God alone.

 

 

As I said, the actual assessment of both kafir and mushrik should not be attempted by men in this world.

 

Doesn't that complicate many matters? e.g muslims are not allowed to eat the foods processed by kafirs and we will never know who is a kafir and who is not unless we discuss theism/atheism/monotheism/polytheism with them before we go anywhere out to eat. Doesn't it make the ruling vague and useless?

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Doesn't that complicate many matters? e.g muslims are not allowed to eat the foods processed by kafirs and we will never know who is a kafir and who is not unless we discuss theism/atheism/monotheism/polytheism with them before we go anywhere out to eat. 

 

No, you don't need to discuss their faith with them.  

 

Those restrictions apply only if you are absolutely certain or have reasonable doubt in someone's belief system.  But not otherwise.

 

I used to have Hindu friends who I knew from our conversation that they believed in one God.  I always treated them as monotheists, even though I knew that they were technically Hindus.

 

There are rules in Islam about the 'benefit of doubt' but I cannot give them to you straightaway.

 

Religion is not as complicated as men have made it out to be.

 

Human beings should be treated as human beings first before you start divvying them up according to other criteria.

 

Don't forget that in the eyes of God, the faith of your birth is not your real faith.

 

For all I know, in God's eyes, I may not be a Muslim  at all

Edited by baqar
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No, you don't need to discuss their faith with them.  

 

Those restrictions apply only if you are absolutely certain or have reasonable doubt in someone's belief system.  But not otherwise.

 

I used to have Hindu friends who I knew from our conversation that they believed in one God.  I always treated them as monotheists, even though I knew that they were technically Hindus.

 

There are rules in Islam about the 'benefit of doubt' but I cannot give them to you straightaway.

 

Religion is not as complicated as men have made it out to be.

 

Human beings should be treated as human beings first before you start divvying them up according to other criteria.

 

Don't forget that in the eyes of God, the faith of your birth is not your real faith.

 

 

For all I know, in God's eyes, I may not be a Muslim  at all

 

Thanx for your reply brother i found it very helpful. BTW i have similar views on it and having lived around them all my life it is a question of high importance for me and  a lot of maulanas, when u ask them this they say it's not allowed to eat from a Hindu since they are kafir and najis but this didn't add up in my brain.

Edited by jean_valjean
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Doesn't that complicate many matters? e.g muslims are not allowed to eat the foods processed by kafirs and we will never know who is a kafir and who is not unless we discuss theism/atheism/monotheism/polytheism with them before we go anywhere out to eat. Doesn't it make the ruling vague and useless?

 

i should tell that to my shia lebanese friends who regularly dine at my home when i have a BBQ.

ofcourse the Arak is restricted to me only :)

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member

Many Muslims seem to think that they understand the definition of kafir and mushrik very well.

That is not true at all.

For one thing, both words relate to one's own mind-set, not the beliefs of his "professed" religion.

Because every one's "real" religion is not necessarily the same as his "professed" religion.

In any case, the assessment of who is a believer or a kafir or a mushrik can best be done by God alone.

I am amazed how Muslims love to judge other people when they can hardly be certain of their own destiny.

They may not be aware but many Muslims may be graded by God as kafir or mushrik.

And in fact, many will be.

And likewise on the Day of Judgment, many non-Muslims will be graded as believers and pass through the gates of heaven.

God's judgment will not depend on the religion of our birth which we automatically follow or profess to follow.

Many of those whom Muslims think are kafir or mushrik are people very dear to God.

The subject is too complex for discussion here.

The definition of both words is much more complex than meets the eye.

Come judgment day, we are probably in for lots of extremely unpleasant surprises.

As I said, the actual assessment of both kafir and mushrik should not be attempted by men in this world.

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  • 2 months later...
  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

 

(salam)

 

I am aware that it is a general belief that Hindus are kafir. But are they? Because in their religion there is also a concept of monotheism. they(a larger part of them) believe that there is only one creator of the world ishwara/brahma/vishnu/parmeshwara but sometimes god manifests himself in physical forms on earth and they are called avatars or bhagwans .This is shirk, but does shirk makes someone kafir? if yes then since Christians believe in trinity , are they kafir too?

 

what actually makes someone kafir? what is the defination of kafir?

 

Thanks in advance for those who are willing to help.

(Salam)

No. Not kafir for the exact reasons you have already. Hindus, Christians and Muslims believe God manifests Himself in everything. They just use different languages to express it.

Masalama

Ethereal

A kafir, by etymological definition, is a farmer who covers the seeds in the ground with a fertiliser. In the context of belief, a kafir is someone who conceals the truth deliberately.

Problem: no one, generally speaking, rejects the truth on purpose. At least, not the average Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc.

There are degrees of kufr. What you are speaking of is just the worst kind of kufr possible. But there is kufr of the heart where people don't even know they are kafir and they think they are right. Most Atheists are kafir simple because they deny His existence and are arrogant about it. They still think they are right!
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This is the most stupid question I have seen on shiachat yet! You have really made yourself stand out..

If worshipping an elephant named ganesh and believing that krishna is inside the cow isn't enough to give an answer of kufr??

That's not a fair categorization of all Hindus.  Hinduism is incredibly diverse.  For example, just check out Arya Samaj.

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According to the Fatwa of all Shia scholars, Kafir are impure and the impurity is transferred by wetness of them. Imam Khomeini says Kafir is someone who denied Allah or considers partner for God or denies the prophethood of Hazrat Mohammad and he is Najis. Since Hindus worship many Gods and in one sence they worship ideals, they are Kafir and Najis. Therefor we should avoid shaking hand with them when their hand is wet. The impurity transfers from one item to another through flowing wetness [that is, there is so much wetness in the impure item that it permeates to another item and makes it impure].

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  • Basic Members

Nasarene (christians) and jews are kafirs but there is a disagreement whether they are impure kafirs or pure ones . - my marja' say they are not - 

Any group other than bakris ( sunnis) some sects who claim islam and those are kafirs and najis . 

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