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Haydar Husayn

Do You Agree With This Statement?

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(bismillah)

(salam)

لا فرق بينك و بينها الّا انهم عبادك و خلقك فتقها و رتقها بيدك، بدؤها منك و عودها اليك

No difference between you and them, but they are your servant and creature...

Mafatih al- Jinan, Prayer of Rajab month.

Does that mean you agree with it then?

The Knowledge of Allah cannot be compared to that of the Imams. Allah is All Knowing, Imams are not. Allah gives some His knowledge to his humble servants (Prophets, Imams, Awlia and even lesser human beings). Same is the case with power. Allah is All Powerful. He gives some power to his humble servants and creations. But there is no comparison.

Ok, so vote no. Edited by Haydar Husayn

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Votes as of now:

Yes: 1

No: 23

Unsure: 3

Ok, the votes seem pretty one-sided at the moment, so let me post something and see if it changes anything.

In one of his speeches in Najaf given in the form of a sermon, Imam [Khomeini] recommended: “Recite Ziyarat-e-Rajabiye, because this ziyarat mentions the status of the Infallibles of Allah, such as: ‘There is no difference between you (Allah) and them except that they are your slaves.’”

Imam emphasised this and said: “Only their being a slave causes the difference between them and Allah. Otherwise all the strengths of Allah are in their hands as well.”

He then said: “Recite this ziyarat so that if anything of the status of the Infallibes of Allah has been narrated for you, you consider it probable and do not reject it.”

http://www.al-islam.org/rays-of-the-sun-eighty-three-stories-from-life-of-imam-khomeini/imam-and-worship Edited by Haydar Husayn

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The explanations sums it up.

Allah is the creator, they are the created, It just means, Allah has given them the Authority over what ever else Allah has created but not the authority over the Original creator, that being Allah.

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The explanations sums it up.

Allah is the creator, they are the created, It just means, Allah has given them the Authority over what ever else Allah has created but not the authority over the Original creator, that being Allah.

Yes... This seems pretty self-evident from the statement I posted.

Anyway, why haven't you voted?

Edited by Haydar Husayn

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On 8/2/2014 at 2:55 PM, Orion said:

The Knowledge of Allah cannot be compared to that of the Imams. Allah is All Knowing, Imams are not. Allah gives some His knowledge to his humble servants (Prophets, Imams, Awlia and even lesser human beings). Same is the case with power. Allah is All Powerful. He gives some power to his humble servants and creations. But there is no comparison.

Masooms (Prophets and Imams) are sinless, mistake free and error free. And they don't forget either.

Depends what you mean by mistake free. We all agree they were sinless, but mistake? 

Imam Ali didn't block properly once, he got hit by the sword and bled, is that considered mistake?

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Votes as of now:

Yes: 1

No: 23

Unsure: 3

Ok, the votes seem pretty one-sided at the moment, so let me post something and see if it changes anything.http://www.al-islam.org/rays-of-the-sun-eighty-three-stories-from-life-of-imam-khomeini/imam-and-worship

The votes are still the same. Alhamdoo'Lillaah (s.w.t).

I hope no one believes in that statement literally, even if a scholar tells you to, I'm hoping the guy who voted 'yes' was just trolling.

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On 8/2/2014 at 7:37 PM, repenter said:

Imam Ali didn't block properly once, he got hit by the sword and bled, is that considered mistake?

I wouldnt call that a "mistake". Plus, the context of the situation has to be challenged and it isnt very clear why he didnt (if he didnt) block properly.  Your just assuming he didnt block properly, if you want to talk logically..

Side Note: Here is the full dua:

Fifth: Shaykh al Tusiy has narrated that the following holy Signature of Imam al-Mahdi ((عليه السلام)) was conveyed to the grand Shaykh Abu-Ja`far Muhammad ibn `Uthm¡n ibn Sa`¢d:

On each day in Rajab, you may recite the following supplication:

In the Name of Allah, the All-beneficent, the All-merciful.

bismi all¡hi alrra¦m¡n alrra¦¢mi

بِسْمِ اللّهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ

O Allah: I implore You by the meanings of all the names with which You are prayed to by Your representatives,

all¡humma inn¢ a¥aluka bima`¡ny jam¢`I m¡ yad`£ka bihi wulatu amrika

اللّهُمَّ إنِّي أَسْأَلُكَ بِمَعَانِي جَمِيعِ مَا يَدْعُوكَ بِهِ وُلاةُ أَمْرِكَ

the trustees with Your secret,

almam£n£na `al¡ sirrika,

الْمَأْمُونُونَ عَلَى سِرِّكَ،

the conveyers of Your affairs,

almustabshir£na bamrika,

 الْمُسْتَبْشِرُونَ بأَمْرِكَ،

the describers of Your power,

alw¡¥if£na liqudratika,

 الْوَاصِفُونَ لِقُدْرَتِكَ،

and the announcers of Your greatness.

almu`lin£na li`a¨amatika,

 الْمُعْلِنُونَ لِعَظَمَتِكَ،

I implore You by Your will that has manifested itself through them

a¥aluka bim¡ na§aqa f¢him min mash¢iatika

 أَسْأَلُكَ بِمَا نَطَقَ فِيهِمْ مِنْ مَشِيئَتِكَ

and thus You have made them the essence of Your words

faja`altahum ma`¡dina likalim¡tika,

فَجَعَلْتَهُمْ مَعَادِنَ لِكَلِمَاتِكَ،

and the indications to Your oneness

wa ark¡nan litaw¦¢dika,

 وَأَرْكَاناً لِتَوْحِيدِكَ،

Your signs, and Your standings that are non-stop

wa ¡¢¡tika wa maq¡m¡tika allaty l¡ ta`§¢la lah¡

 وَآيَاتِكَ وَمَقَامَاتِكَ الَّتِي لا تَعْطِيلَ لَهَا

in each place where those who recognize You could only recognize You through them.

f¢ kulli mak¡nin ya`rifuka bih¡ man `arafaka,

فِي كُلِّ مَكَانٍ يَعْرِفُكَ بِهَا مَنْ عَرَفَكَ،

No difference between You and them except that they are Your servants and beings.

l¡ farqa baynaka wa baynah¡ ill¡ annhum `ib¡duka wa khalquka,

لا فَرْقَ بَيْنَكَ وَبَيْنَهَا إلاّ أَنَّهُمْ عِبَادُكَ وَخَلْقُكَ،

The opening and the closing of all things are in Your hand alone.

fatquh¡ wa ratquh¡ b¢adika,

 فَتْقُهَا وَرَتْقُهَا بِيَدِكَ،

The inauguration and the conclusion of all things belong to You alone.

badu´uh¡ minka wa `awduh¡ ilayka,

 بَدْؤُهَا مِنْكَ وَعَوْدُهَا إلَيْكَ،

(They are thus only) supporters, witnesses,

a`¤¡dun wa ashh¡dun

 أَعْضَادٌ وَأَشْهَادٌ

wishing (Your mercy), protecting (Your religion),

wa mun¡tun wa adhw¡dun

وَمُنَاةٌ وَأَذْوَادٌ

saving (Your laws), and pioneers (to the obedience to You).

wa ¦afa¨atun wa r£w¡dun,

وَحَفَظَةٌ وَرُوَّادٌ،

With them have You filled in Your heavens and Earth

fabihim malata sam¡‘aka wa ar¤aka

 فَبِهِمْ مَلأتَ سَمَاءَكَ وَأَرْضَكَ

until it has become obvious that there is no God save You.

¦att¡ ¨ahara an l¡ il¡ha ill¡ anta,

حَتَّى ظَهَرَ أَنْ لا إلهَ إلاّ أَنْتَ،

I thus implore You by all this

fabidhlika a¥aluka,

 فَبِذلِكَ أَسْأَلُكَ،

and by the sites of dignity in Your mercy

wa bimaw¡qi`I al`izz min ra¦matika

 وَبِمَوَاقِعِ الْعِزِّ مِنْ رَحْمَتِكَ

and by Your standings and Signs,

wa bimaq¡m¡tika wa `al¡m¡tika,

وَبِمَقَامَاتِكَ وَعَلامَاتِكَ،

that You send blessings upon Mu¦ammad and his Household

an tu¥alliya `al¡ mu¦ammadin wa ¡lihi

 أَنْ تُصَلِّيَ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِهِ

and You may increase my faith and firmness.

wa an taz¢dany I¢m¡nan wa tathb¢tan.

وَأَنْ تَزِيدَنِي إيمَاناً وَتَثْبِيتاً.

O He Who is Immanent in His Evidence.

y¡ b¡§inan f¢ ¨uh£rihi,

 يَا بَاطِناً فِي ظُهُورِهِ،

O He Who is Evident in His Immanence and in His hiddenness.

wa ¨¡hiran f¢ bu§£nihi wa makn£nihi,

 وَظَاهِراً فِي بُطُونِهِ وَمَكْنُونِهِ،

O He Who sets apart light from murk.

y¡ mufarrqan bayna alnn£ri wal-dd¢j£ri,

 يَا مُفَرِّقاً بَيْنَ النُّورِ وَالدَّيجُورِ،

O He Whom is described without recognition of his real essence

y¡ maw¥£fan bighayri kunhin,

 يَا مَوْصُوفاً بِغَيْرِ كُنْهٍ،

and He Whom is recognized without having anything like Him.

wa ma`r£fan bighayri shibhin,

 وَمَعْرُوفاً بِغَيْرِ شِبْهٍ،

O the edger of all edged things.

¦¡dd kull ma¦d£din,

 حَادَّ كُلِّ مَحْدُودٍ،

O the witness of all done things.

wa sh¡hida kull mashh£din,

 وَشَاهِدَ كُلِّ مَشْهُودٍ،

O the bringer into being all existent things.

wa m£jida kull mawj£din,

 وَمُوجِدَ كُلِّ مَوْجُودٍ،

O the knower of the number of all countable things.

wa mu¦¥iya kull ma`d£din,

 وَمُحْصِيَ كُلِّ مَعْدُودٍ،

O the knower of the place of all lost things.

wa f¡qida kull mafq£din,

 وَفَاقِدَ كُلِّ مَفْقُودٍ،

None is worshipped except You.

laysa d£naka min ma`b£din,

 لَيْسَ دُونَكَ مِنْ مَعْبُودٍ،

You are the worthiest of all pride and magnanimity.

ahla alkibry¡‘I wal-j£di,

 أَهْلَ الْكِبْرِيَاءِ وَالْجُودِ،

O He Whom is not asked ‘How’

y¡ man l¡ yukayyfu bikayfin,

 يَا مَنْ لا يُكَيَّفُ بِكَيْفٍ،

and is not asked ‘Where.’

wa l¡ yu´ayynu bia¢nin,

 وَلا يُؤَيَّنُ بِأَيْنٍ،

O He Who is concealed from all sights.

y¡ mu¦tajiban `an kull `aynin,

 يَا مُحْتَجِباً عَنْ كُلِّ عَيْنٍ،

O the Everlasting, O the Self-Subsistent, O the Knower of all known things.

y¡ daym£mu y¡ qayy£mu wa `¡lima kull ma`l£min,

 يَا دَيْمُومُ يَا قَيُّومُ وَعَالِمَ كُلِّ مَعْلُومٍ،

(please do) Send blessings upon Mu¦ammad and his Household and upon Your selected servants

¥alli `al¡ mu¦ammadin wa ¡lihi wa `al¡ `ib¡dika almuntajab¢na,

 صَلِّ عَلَى مُحَمَّدٍ وَآلِهِ وَعَلَى عِبَادِكَ الْمُنْتَجَبِينَ،

and Your concealed beings

wa basharika almu¦tajib¢na,

 وَبَشَرِكَ الْمُحْتَجِبِينَ،

and Your favorite angels

wa mal¡’ikatika almuqarrb¢na,

 وَمَلائِكَتِكَ الْمُقَرَّبِينَ،

and the Angels who draw themselves out in ranks and who throng (round the Divine Throne);

wal-buhmi al¥¥¡ff¢na al¦¡ff¢na,

 وَالْبُهْمِ الصَّافّينَ الْحَافّينَ،

and bless us in this month—the honored and dignified—

wa b¡rik lan¡ f¢ shahrin¡ h¡dh¡ almurajjbi almukarrmi,

 وَبَارِكْ لَنَا فِي شَهْرِنَا هذَا الْمُرَجَّبِ الْمُكَرَّمِ،

as well as the next sacred months;

wa m¡ ba`dahu mina alashhuri al¦urumi,

 وَمَا بَعْدَهُ مِنَ الأشْهُرِ الْحُرُمِ،

and pour upon us Your graces in this month;

wa asbigh `alayn¡ f¢hi alnni`ama,

 وَأَسْبِغْ عَلَيْنَا فِيهِ النِّعَمَ،

and grant us abundant shares of blessings;

wa ajzil lan¡ f¢hi alqisama,

 وَأَجْزِلْ لَنَا فِيهِ الْقِسَمَ،

and admit our requests,

wa abrir lan¡ f¢hi alqasama,

 وَأَبْرِرْ لَنَا فِيهِ الْقَسَمَ،

by Your Name, the Greatest, the Greatest, the Loftiest, the Most Honored,

bi¡smika ala`¨ami ala`¨ami alajall alakrami,

 بِاسْمِكَ الأعْظَمِ الأعْظَمِ الأجَلِّ الأكْرَمِ،

that You put on daylight and it thus lit up,

alldhy wa ¤a`tahu `al¡ alnnh¡ri fa¤¡‘a,

 الَّذِي وَضَعْتَهُ عَلَى النَّهَارِ فَأَضَاءَ،

and You put on night and it thus darkened;

wa `al¡ all¢li fa¨lama,

 وَعَلَى اللَّيْلِ فَأَظْلَمَ،

and forgive us all that which You know about us and all that which we do not know;

wa ghfir lan¡ m¡ ta`lamu minn¡ wa m¡ l¡ na`lamu,

وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا مَا تَعْلَمُ مِنَّا وَمَا لا نَعْلَمُ،

and protect us against sins with the best of protection;

w¡`¥imn¡ mina aldhdhn£bi khayra al`I¥ami,

 وَاعْصِمْنَا مِنَ الذُّنُوبِ خَيْرَ الْعِصَمِ،

and save us against the acts that You predetermine;

w¡kfin¡ kaw¡fiya qadarika,

 وَاكْفِنَا كَوَافِيَ قَدَرِكَ،

and bestow upon us with Your superb looking;

w¡mnun `alayn¡ bi¦usni na¨arika,

 وَامْنُنْ عَلَيْنَا بِحُسْنِ نَظَرِكَ،

and do not refer us to anyone other than You;

wa l¡ takiln¡ il¡ ghayrika,

 وَلا تَكِلْنَا إلَى غَيْرِكَ،

and do not prevent us from Your goodness;

wa l¡ tamna`n¡ min khayrika,

 وَلا تَمْنَعْنَا مِنْ خَيْرِكَ،

and bless us in the age that You have decided for us;

wa b¡rik lan¡ f¢m¡ katabtahu lan¡ min a`m¡rin¡,

 وَبَارِكْ لَنَا فِيمَا كَتَبْتَهُ لَنَا مِنْ أَعْمَارِنَا،

and make righteous for us our inner selves;

wa a¥li¦ lan¡ khab¢iata asr¡rin¡,

 وَأَصْلِحْ لَنَا خَبِيئَةَ أَسْرَارِنَا،

and grant us security from You;

wa a`§in¡ minka alam¡na,

 وَأَعْطِنَا مِنْكَ الأمَانَ،

and make us enjoy perfect faith;

w¡sta`miln¡ bi¦usni Ali¢m¡ni,

 وَاسْتَعْمِلْنَا بِحُسْنِ الإيمَانِ،

and make us catch the month of fasting

wa ballghn¡ shahra al¥¥¢¡mi,

 وَبَلِّغْنَا شَهْرَ الصِّيَامِ،

and the days and years coming after;

wa m¡ ba`dahu mina alaiyy¡mi wal-a`w¡mi,

 وَمَا بَعْدَهُ مِنَ الأيَّامِ وَالأعْوَامِ،

O the Lord of Majesty and Honor.

y¡ dhaljal¡li wal-I know right¡mi.

 

 

 

http://www.al-Islam.org/rays-of-the-sun-eighty-three-stories-from-life-of-Imam-Khomeini/Imam-and-worship#footnote2_lbcbmsc

In one of his speeches in Najaf given in the form of a sermon, Imam recommended: “Recite Ziyarat-e-Rajabiye, 2 because this ziyarat mentions the status of the Infallibles of Allah, such as: ‘There is no difference between you (Allah) and them except that they are your slaves.’”

 

Imam emphasised this and said: “Only their being a slave causes the difference between them and Allah.  Otherwise all the strengths of Allah are in their hands as well.” 

 

He then said: “Recite this ziyarat so that if anything of the status of the Infallibes of Allah has been narrated for you, you consider it probable and do not reject it.” 

 

Ayatullah Mu’min

 

 

 

12. The reward of the lawful spending of blessings

 

The Holy Qur'an stresses the reward of Paradise and eternal happiness for the men and women who have hearts full of faith, souls pure of vices, bodies busy with good deeds, tongues announcing the Truth, wealth moving in the circle of generosity and liberality and feet walking to serve people.

 

The Qur'an confirms that the reward of these believers who do good will never be in vain.

The Qur'an clearly declares that the promise of Allah is true, and Allah never reneges on His promise.

The Holy Qur'an shows the kinds of rewards for believers who do good works by saying: great reward, honorable reward,

reward that will never fail, and good reward. Allah has said,

 

“Allah has promised to those who believe and do good deeds (that) they shall have forgiveness and an excellent reward.” Qur’an, 5:9

 “Except those who are patient and do good, they shall have forgiveness and a great reward.” Qur’an, 11:11

 “Who is there that will offer to Allah a good gift so He will double it for him, and he shall have an honorable reward.” Qur’an, 57:11

 “For those who believe and work deeds of righteousness is a reward that will never fail.” Qur’an, 41:8

 “Then if you obey, Allah will grant you a good reward.” Qur’an, 48:16

 

If the blessing of the heart is used in the circle of faith and belief; the blessing of the mind is used in the way of thinking to discover the facts; the blessing of the organs is used in the way of good deeds; the blessings of position and wealth are used to solve the problems of people: if man uses all these blessings in the way of obedience, in worship, in serving people and in doing good, and in the way of confirming piety and chasteness, then he, besides getting happiness in this life, will gain five kinds of reward in the afterlife. Using the Divine blessings and gifts in the right way is not difficult or arduous. In fact, every man and woman can follow this way so that no curtain or obstacle remains between them and the Creator and they can get the pleasure of nearness and meeting with Allah.

 

The Prophet (s) and the Infallible Imams (s), by being grateful for the divine blessings and by using these blessings in their correct way, have passed through all the dark and luminous screens until nothing remains between them and their Exalted Lord save that they are creatures and slaves to Allah the Almighty.

 

Sheikh Abu Ja’far Muhammad bin Othman bin Sa’eed narrated that one of the Infallible Imams (s) had said, “Your signs and positions, which cannot be annulled at any time or in any place, are how You are recognized by those who can see. There is no difference between You and them except that they are Your slaves and creatures”.[1]

 

It must be noticed that the divine blessings do not form a screen or an obstacle between man and his Creator, but deviant behavior and the satanic methods of man in using these blessings and talents do form such a screen. If we use the blessings correctly, as Allah has intended for us, these blessings will bring us close to Allah.

 

The Prophets (s) and the Infallible Imams (s) made use of the different material and moral blessings. They had wives and children. They had houses to live in. They made their livelihood by grazing cattle, farming, trading and other dealings. At the same time, there was no screen between them and Allah.

 

If the spirit of obedience and worship is found inside man, the state of submission and servitude is fixed in him, his heart is filled with the light of knowledge, and his soul is filled with the light of good deeds, then surely man will make use of all the material tools and means in his worldly life to take him to the moral position; however, if one looses the spirit of obedience and worship, he will not know how to use the divine blessings in the right way, and whatever blessings increase for him he will become prouder, haughtier and more aggressive.

[Mod Note: maaref-foundation.com migrated to a new site. Link was updated below.]

https://www.hilmi.eu/Islam/books/maaref-foundation/www.maaref-foundation.com/english/index.htm

Edited by Hameedeh
Mod Note and new updated Link.

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On 8/2/2014 at 7:37 PM, repenter said:

Depends what you mean by mistake free. We all agree they were sinless, but mistake? 

Imam Ali didn't block properly once, he got hit by the sword and bled, is that considered mistake?

Good point but if he's going against a group of soldiers and one lands a hit what that be a mistake or just being overwhelmed? Or if he's Injured and and takes a hit would that still be a mistake? I think the only way you can use that example and say its a mistake if the Imam is in perfect health and is fighting one on one.

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The votes are still the same. Alhamdoo'Lillaah (s.w.t).

I hope no one believes in that statement literally, even if a scholar tells you to, I'm hoping the guy who voted 'yes' was just trolling.

nope!

this is a true Idea, though it is hard to be comprehended.

if you review all responses criticizing this Idea you will see that all of which could be justified by the condition stated in the dua " except they are your salves"

as late Imam Khomeini said :

Imam emphasized this and said: “Only their being a slave causes the difference between them and Allah.  Otherwise all the strengths of Allah are in their hands as well.”

for example when some express disapproval raising this objection that Imams are creature while God is a creator!

I wonder how and why they are ignorant that being salves means that Ahlyl-bayt must be the creatures of a creator so this objection is not true any longer.

The key concept which lay behind this statement is the pure obedience they represent before God. Pure obedient is a noble attribute that gives you this opportunity to reflect what your Lord possesses as if mirror except you have no independence authority.

very interesting that this Idea is mentioned in Quran:

وَ إِذْ قالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلائِكَةِ إِنِّي جاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَليفَة

When your Lord said to the angels," Indeed I am going to set a viceroy on the earth,2:30

as regards this term viceroy there are many words written in commentary books.

in terms of knowledge and other attributes we have some traditions that provide this idea:

کافی ج 2 ص 352

َ سَمِعْتُ أَبَا عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع يَقُولُ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ص‏ قَالَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ مَنْ أَهَانَ لِي وَلِيّاً فَقَدْ أَرْصَدَ لِمُحَارَبَتِي وَ مَا تَقَرَّبَ إِلَيَّ عَبْدٌ بِشَيْ‏ءٍ أَحَبَّ إِلَيَّ مِمَّا افْتَرَضْتُ عَلَيْهِ وَ إِنَّهُ لَيَتَقَرَّبُ إِلَيَّ بِالنَّافِلَةِ حَتَّى أُحِبَّهُ فَإِذَا أَحْبَبْتُهُ كُنْتُ سَمْعَهُ الَّذِي‏ يَسْمَعُ‏ بِهِ‏ وَ بَصَرَهُ الَّذِي يُبْصِرُ بِهِ وَ لِسَانَهُ الَّذِي يَنْطِقُ بِهِ وَ يَدَهُ الَّتِي يَبْطِشُ بِهَا إِنْ دَعَانِي أَجَبْتُه‏

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You obviously don't get it. So Allaah (s.w.t) is not more knowledgable and more powerful than the Prophet (s.a.w.w)?

Does the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.w) know the time when Judgement Day comes?

Does the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.w) know the time where Imaam al-Mahdi` (a.j.f) reappears?

Does the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.w) know the final letter of Ism ul-A'dum?

Last time I brought forth a hadeeth' you stated by looking at the chain to reply to me. Well, can you tell me the authenticity of the particular hadeeth' you brought forth?

And secondly, how do you know it is literal? I personally do not believe in `irfaan, so I wouldn't take everything literally.

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this problem basically comes from our belief upon the علم الغیب or the knowledge of unseen for Imams and has nothing to do with Irfan brother?

 

Last time I brought forth a hadeeth' you stated by looking at the chain to reply to me. Well, can you tell me the authenticity of the particular hadeeth' you brought forth?

ooh, what good memory you have brother, I almost had forgotten it.

but never mind, it is your right to make sure about the authenticity of the chain. This is the full explanation of narrators:

 

عدة من أصحابنا عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد عن إسماعيل بن مهران عن أبي سعيد القماط عن أبان بن تغلب عن أبي جعفر ع قال لما أسري ب النبي ص قال‏

 

1- اسم : أحمد بن محمد بن خالد البرقي‏

رجال ‏النجاشي /ص‏77 : و كان ثقة في نفسه‏

2- اسم : إسماعيل بن مهران بن محمد بن أبي نصر

رجال ‏النجاشي /ص‏27 : ثقة معتمد عليه‏

فهرست‏ الطوسي /ص‏28 : ثقة معتمد عليه‏

 

3- اسم : صالح بن سعيد أبو سعيد القماط

ثقة.إمامي صحيح المذهب ظاهرا

رجال ‏النجاشي /ص‏149 : ثقة

 

4- اسم : أبان بن تغلب الجريري‏

رجال ‏النجاشي /ص‏10 : عظيم المنزلة في أصحابنا لقي علي بن الحسين و أبا جعفر و أبا عبد الله عليهم السلام روى عنهم و كانت له عندهم منزلة و قدم

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this problem basically comes from our belief upon the علم الغیب or the knowledge of unseen for Imams and has nothing to do with Irfan brother?

 

ooh, what good memory you have brother, I almost had forgotten it.

but never mind, it is your right to make sure about the authenticity of the chain. This is the full explanation of narrators:

 

عدة من أصحابنا عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد عن إسماعيل بن مهران عن أبي سعيد القماط عن أبان بن تغلب عن أبي جعفر ع قال لما أسري ب النبي ص قال‏

 

1- اسم : أحمد بن محمد بن خالد البرقي‏

رجال ‏النجاشي /ص‏77 : و كان ثقة في نفسه‏

2- اسم : إسماعيل بن مهران بن محمد بن أبي نصر

رجال ‏النجاشي /ص‏27 : ثقة معتمد عليه‏

فهرست‏ الطوسي /ص‏28 : ثقة معتمد عليه‏

 

3- اسم : صالح بن سعيد أبو سعيد القماط

ثقة.إمامي صحيح المذهب ظاهرا

رجال ‏النجاشي /ص‏149 : ثقة

 

4- اسم : أبان بن تغلب الجريري‏

رجال ‏النجاشي /ص‏10 : عظيم المنزلة في أصحابنا لقي علي بن الحسين و أبا جعفر و أبا عبد الله عليهم السلام روى عنهم و كانت له عندهم منزلة و قدم

Okay thanks. But I didn't understand your first statement.

Do you believe that Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.w) has all the Power, and all the Knowledge of Allaah (s.w.t) except that he is His slave?

Please answer because you're confusing me.

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On 8/3/2014 at 3:35 AM, DaBeast313 said:

Do you believe that Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).w) has all the Power, and all the Knowledge of Allaah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) except that he is His slave?

No.

Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).w) has as much power and knowledge as has been given by Allah. That does not mean he has ALL the power and knowledge that Allah HAS.

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On 8/3/2014 at 5:35 AM, Orion said:

No.

Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).w) has as much power and knowledge as has been given by Allah. That does not mean he has ALL the power and knowledge that Allah HAS.

But tha statement's saying the only difference between Him and His Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).w) is that he is His slave.

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(salam)

 

This is what Ayatullah Khoei has to say about the narrators and the du'a it self:

 

 خير بن عبد اللّه: روى توقيعاً عن أبي جعفر محمد بن عثمان بن سعيد، وروى عنه ابن عيّاش، ذكره الشيخ في مصباح المتهجد في أعمال شهر رجب

 
أقول: هو مجهول الحال وابن عيّاش ضعيف، وتقدّم بعنوان أحمد بن محمد ابن عبيد اللّه، ومضمون التوقيع الذي أوله (اللهم إنّي أسألك بمعاني جميع مايدعوك به ولاة أمرك)، غريب عن أذهان المتشرعة وغير قابل للاذعان بصدوره عن المعصوم عليه السلام

 

Unfortunately I am not good in doing Arabic to English translations, but the gist of the matter is that, he is essentially saying that Khayr bin Abd Allah who is the narrator (or Khabeer as it says in one script) is unknown and ibn Ayyash is weak and that the content of the tawqee' is strange (although Sheikh Mohsin tries to do tahleel of Khoei's words).

 

He (Ayatullah Khoei) was asked about the line that says that there is no difference between them and Allah [swt] except that they are slaves, and he tried to explain it away anyways:

 

سؤال 993: ما معنى العبارة الواردة في دعاء رجب اليومي (لا فرق بينك وبينها إلا أنهم عبادك)؟
 
الخوئي: لعلها تشير إلى أنهم مع بلوغهم في مرتبة الكمال إلى حد نفوذ التصرف منهم في الكون بإذنك، فهم مقهورون لك، لأنهم مربوبون لك، لا حيلة لهم دون إرادتك ومشيتك فيهم بما تشاء، والله العالم
 
Source: صراط النجاة - Volume 3
 
Wassalam

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On 8/3/2014 at 2:40 AM, Orion said:

The one guided by Allah cannot commit an error.

 

 I myself did not believe in Sahw un-Nabi until I read more into it. This topic was discussed on another thread:

(wasalam)

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in all creation, no one is better than the perfect human

all angels fell in prostration toward the perfect human after they figured out he knows the Asmaa

the perfect human has the Isma al-'azam

he is the full manifestation of divine attributes

only one Ism is with Allah that He didn't give to the perfect human and that is Ism al-musta'thar

the distinction between the creator and His creation is preserved by that Ism

and this distinction has been addressed in the same line of Du'a.

 

people who are willing to reject this du'a, they should reject many lines of Jami'a al-Kabira and many other lines of hadiths

 

the ultimate thing is this, don't reject it, if you can't understand say we don't understand, there's no need to reject.

 

many will reach Sa'ada even with their limited knowledge about these matters, but also there are many who do serious harms to themselves by taking their own understanding as the criterion for right and wrong.

there are things we might not know.

Edited by mesbah

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