Can He Return Back To Islam ?

[mirza1]

Salam.

A friend of mine was born and raised as a Muslim for the first 28 years of his life but then he became started practicing idolatry by joining Hinduism. Now he is repenting and wishing to return back to Islam. But he is being discouraged by being told and cross-checked on the web that his sins won't be forgiven. That Allah does not fogive idolaters.

Can someone enlighten me on this issue please ?

Thank you.

Khuda Hafiz.

[Repentant]

wasallam

 

I believe that if you die a mushrik then you are not forgiven. For during the Prophet's (saw) time, many were polytheist but then joined Islam.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Repentant

[ShiaHashmi]

if he die in this state he wont be forgiven, if he repents before that Allah is most merciful.

Inshallah

[Haydar Husayn]

If he actually believes in Islam, then he is a Muslim. His sins are grave, but you should never lose hope in the mercy of Allah as long as you sincerely repent.

Some verses from the Qur'an on the mercy of Allah: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234998642-mercy-and-justice-of-Allah-in-the-quran/?p=2343450

Edited July 30, 2014 by Haydar Husayn

[Sumerian]

That is shirk. I have always heard, and have seen Holy Qur'aanic evidence that shirk cannot be forgiven.

Can someone shed some light or is this the correct opinion?

[Haydar Husayn]

That is shirk. I have always heard, and have seen Holy Qur'aanic evidence that shirk cannot be forgiven.

Can someone shed some light or is this the correct opinion?

I think the most widespread opinion is it is not forgiven if you die upon shirk.

The following verses would indicate that even shirk can be forgiven:

Say: O my servants! who have acted extravagantly against their own souls, do not despair of the mercy of Allah; surely Allah forgives the faults altogether; surely He is the Forgiving the Merciful. [39:53]

And they who do not call upon another god with Allah and do not slay the soul, which Allah has forbidden except in the requirements of justice, and (who) do not commit fornication and he who does this shall find a requital of sin; The punishment shall be doubled to him on the day of resurrection, and he shall abide therein in abasement; Except him who repents and believes and does a good deed; so these are they of whom Allah changes the evil deeds to good ones; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [25:68-70]

Edited July 30, 2014 by Haydar Husayn

[La fata illa Ali]

Assalam:

 

Congrats HH for becoing a mod!

 

well done sir.

 

Didnt see that until today.

[UnknownShia]

he left islam for hinduism.....

 

how ignorant can you be....

[Ali_Hussain]

he left islam for hinduism.....

 

how ignorant can you be....

 

Maybe he was from a very secular family, and was influenced by the wrong people. What is important is that he wants to come back to Allah عز و جل

 

It is sad that he read people actually discouraging this:

 

But he is being discouraged by being told and cross-checked on the web that his sins won't be forgiven. That Allah does not fogive idolaters.

 

What do they expect him to do? Just keep on worshiping idols and accept that he is Hell-bound? The Qur'an speaks very negatively about those who bar others from the path of Allah عز و جل

Edited July 30, 2014 by Ali_Hussain

[Chair Pundit]

Allah does NOT forgive shirk:

Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin most heinous indeed. -- Sura 4:48

Allah forgiveth not (the sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with Allah, Hath strayed far, far away (from the right). -- Sura 4:116

Allah forgives shirk (even in the same sura):

... Yet they [the Israelites] worshipped the calf even after Clear Signs had come to them; even so We forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority. -- Sura 4:153

Contradiction?

[Haydar Husayn]

Allah does NOT forgive shirk:

Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin most heinous indeed. -- Sura 4:48

Allah forgiveth not (the sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with Allah, Hath strayed far, far away (from the right). -- Sura 4:116Allah forgives shirk (even in the same sura):

... Yet they [the Israelites] worshipped the calf even after Clear Signs had come to them; even so We forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority. -- Sura 4:153Contradiction?

No. And I would kindly suggest that you stop derailing threads with your nonsense. Just make one thread on your issues with Islam, and leave everyone else's threads alone, unless you want to participate in them in a constructive way.

[notme]

Never despair of the mercy of Allah, which is without limit. Of course he should return to Islam!

[Chair Pundit]

No. And I would kindly suggest that you stop derailing threads with your nonsense. Just make one thread on your issues with Islam, and leave everyone else's threads alone, unless you want to participate in them in a constructive way.

To derail a thread entails taking it off topic. My objection is entirely pertinent. The contradiction is there for you to counter or conveniently brush aside as "nonsense."

It's my right to participate in this forum how I like so long as I'm not breaking any rules. You're more than welcome to ignore my posts (which you've been doing consistently with my responses to you, anyway.)

[gotmuffins!]

Alhamdulillah he came back to Islam!

 

Who Allah (swt) guides none can misguide, and whoever Allah (swt) misguides none can guide. I can't begin to comprehend Allah's (swt) plan, but it was obvious that he was guided back to Islam through the grace and will of Allah (swt).

[Haydar Husayn]

To derail a thread entails taking it off topic. My objection is entirely pertinent. The contradiction is there for you to counter or conveniently brush aside as "nonsense."

It's my right to participate in this forum how I like so long as I'm not breaking any rules. You're more than welcome to ignore my posts (which you've been doing consistently with my responses to you, anyway.)

It is not pertinent. The thread is about whether or not someone can be forgiven from shirk, not whether or not the Qur'an contradicts itself if you use an ultra-literalist methodology that refuses to allow for the book to speak as a whole or allow and reconciliation between verses. When someone asks a question that is clearly the asking for the Islamic view of something, they don't want a discussion about whether of not their faith makes any sense.

As for me supposedly ignoring your responses, I think I've engaged with you more than most in your various guises over my years here, but at a certain point I need to take a break from banging my head against a brick wall.

As for your question, it has been answered already if you read the previous posts carefully. Whether or not you want to accept the answer is another matter.

[Muhammed Ali]

To the OP: Was Islam first sent to muslims so that they could become muslim?

 

That Allah does not fogive idolaters.
 

 

Why did the Prophet preach to idolaters? 

 

Allah does NOT forgive shirk:

 

Maybe the problem here is with the English word 'forgive'? When we think of that word we associate it with a state after repentance. I.e. we think that Allah does not forgive the repenting mushrik. But the word used in this verse is gafara. Which principally means to cover up/conceal. It would not have the same connotations as the English word. Thus the word used here may refer to the state that a person is in currently/permanently. It may not have to be restricted to a state after repentance. 

Edited July 30, 2014 by Muhammed Ali

[Chair Pundit]

I think the most widespread opinion is it is not forgiven if you die upon shirk.

That's not apparent in verses 4:48 and 4:116. Even if it is in reference to the one who has died upon shirk, it has been already well established in the Qur'an that hellfire awaits the idolater. Why is the obvious mentioned once again?

[Haydar Husayn]

That's not apparent in verses 4:48 and 4:116. Even if it is in reference to the one who has died upon shirk, it has been already well established in the Qur'an that hellfire awaits the idolater. Why is the obvious mentioned once again?

The point is that Allah might forgive other sins that you didn't repent for, but to be forgiven for shirk you need to repent.

[El Cid]

I've been curious about something. Is idoltary considered just the worship of a statue god? People believe in karma like a God/force of nature, is that idoltary? People worship satan as a God but mostly don't go around worshipping statues of him contrary to popular belief. Is that considered too?

[Ethics]

I've been curious about something. Is idoltary considered just the worship of a statue god? People believe in karma like a God/force of nature, is that idoltary? People worship satan as a God but mostly don't go around worshipping statues of him contrary to popular belief. Is that considered too?

Idolatry is the worship of idols/objects. Idolatry is shirk. It is shirk that is the main argument here. When you make something/someone(s) independent from Allah, giving them absoluteness, or divinity.

 

 

112:1

to top

Shakir

Say: He, Allah, is One.

112:2

to top

Shakir

Allah is He on Whom all depend.

112:3

to top

Shakir

He begets not, nor is He begotten.

112:4

to top

Shakir

And none is like Him.

Edited July 31, 2014 by PureEthics

[Umm Fatima]

I was raised Hindu and my dad always told me the statues are just faces of the One God, like we say He has many names. I know it sounds absurd but that's what some of them believe, so they aren't what you might call a Quranic definition of idolator.

And the point that he probably never knew Islam to begin with is quite valid. Like all the Shia who become Sunni because they never understood their own sect. My husband was raised Muslim Sunni by name, but didn't know a thing about Islam until he was living away from home and met some Sufis.

[El Cid]

Yes true but the verses say there is none like him and one only. What if a person thinks of Allah as a God and something else of a lesser God?

[Umm Fatima]

That would be shirk, but I think there are categories of shirk. Like in irfan they would say we commit shirk when we seek things from other than Allah, but that isn't what the quoted ayahs are on about, at least I hope not or I am in trouble.

[Ethics]

Yes true but the verses say there is none like him and one only. What if a person thinks of Allah as a God and something else of a lesser God?

 

Again, that would be giving divinity. There is no such thing as a lesser God. There is a God, Gods, or no God.

 

That would be shirk, but I think there are categories of shirk. Like in irfan they would say we commit shirk when we seek things from other than Allah, but that isn't what the quoted ayahs are on about, at least I hope not or I am in trouble.

 

Thats too vague. For sure that is not what the verses imply. We seek things "from other than God" all the time. Its our intention and understanding that makes something shirk. If you think the doctor is whom is your curer, and his ability to cure came from him alone, then its shirk. But all muslims understand consciously his ability is God given, natural human ability. Again, it is when that person who gives, is made independent from God.

 

(wasalam)

 

(wasalam)

[El Cid]

Again, that would be giving divinity. There is no such thing as a lesser God. There is a God, Gods, or no God.

 

 

Thats too vague. For sure that is not what the verses imply. We seek things "from other than God" all the time. Its our intention and understanding that makes something shirk. If you think the doctor is whom is your curer, and his ability to cure came from him alone, then its shirk. But all muslims understand consciously his ability is God given, natural human ability. Again, it is when that person who gives, is made independent from God.

 

(wasalam)

 

(wasalam)

 

It'd be Gods then, but keeping Allah in his own league. The verses state make him known as a one and only. It doesn't say don't give divinity to other creatures.

[Ethics]

It'd be Gods then, but keeping Allah in his own league. The verses state make him known as a one and only. It doesn't say don't give divinity to other creatures.

 

divinity is only for God, thats the whole point. Which is not making him the one, the only :)

Edited July 31, 2014 by PureEthics

[Umm Fatima]

I don't think Muslims keep Allah in mind every time they get or lose something. Maybe intellectually they would argue that Allah is in charge of all things, but the level of faith isn't enough to make them solely rely on Allah on a daily basis. This is off topic now. My point was that some Hindus may not be mushrikeen according to the definition of giving partners to Allah because they see their pantheon as representations of the One, not add separate divinities.

[Ethics]

I don't think Muslims keep Allah in mind every time they get or lose something. Maybe intellectually they would argue that Allah is in charge of all things, but the level of faith isn't enough to make them solely rely on Allah on a daily basis. This is off topic now. My point was that some Hindus may not be mushrikeen according to the definition of giving partners to Allah because they see their pantheon as representations of the One, not add separate divinities.

But you see your reasoning is clearly wrong. How do you know what people do and don't think. You cannot use such an argument. You are telling me you know everyone's intentions and beliefs? Or are you just assuming?

For your point I guess, just like the Catholics with the trinity but it is all still shirk. But why are himdus still polytheist and najis by Islamic law? Where as Christians are pure. I think it is because with the trinity it is one broken in 3 where as Hindus believe it is part of one, broken in many, with each part as one of itself. Kinda like how Christians make god into a human, Hindus think they are all part of god but it really isn't.

Edited July 31, 2014 by PureEthics

[Umm Fatima]

I was speaking from personal experience and from what I've read in books on spirituality, brother, not making a statement about everyone.

And I was not aware that any Muslims counted Catholics as different from other Christians. Their beliefs aren't that different, really.

Let's try to focus on the original subject, yeah?

[Ethics]

I was speaking from personal experience and from what I've read in books on spirituality, brother, not making a statement about everyone.

And I was not aware that any Muslims counted Catholics as different from other Christians. Their beliefs aren't that different, really.

Let's try to focus on the original subject, yeah?

Sorry to me it sounded like a generalization I guess, since you said Muslims. No, Catholics are not not separate from Christians in Islamic law. I meant Hindus.

These are all sort of related to the topic at hand but okay I understand. Hopefully someone can answer my questions.

[Umm Fatima]

I guess the topic is touchy for me because my dad is Hindu but he is monotheistic if you get into the subject. So making a ruling about his purity seems strange to me.

And not all Hindus believe you you described. In fact, many of their older texts are strictly monotheistic.

[Ethics]

I guess the topic is touchy for me because my dad is Hindu but he is monotheistic if you get into the subject. So making a ruling about his purity seems strange to me.

And not all Hindus believe you you described. In fact, many of their older texts are strictly monotheistic.

Please forgive me. I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. But by Islamic law they are considered najis, all non Muslims except Christians Jews, and sabians. Check sistani's law book. We cannot eat their food nor let them touch us, and if I'm not mistaken only when their wet. Otherwise our religious duties are void.

(Wasalam)

[Umm Fatima]

I understand that your marja might say that, but mine says that all people are most probably tahir. And Allah knows best.

[Haydar Husayn]

Please forgive me. I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. But by Islamic law they are considered najis, all non Muslims except Christians Jews, and sabians. Check sistani's law book. We cannot eat their food nor let them touch us, and if I'm not mistaken only when their wet. Otherwise our religious duties are void.

(Wasalam)

I wouldn't base any arguments on this. There are arguments in favour of the Ahlul Kitab being considered najis, and I believe that used to be a more popular ruling than it currently is among scholars. Also, as far as I'm aware, there is no hadith stating that the kuffar are najis (while there are some concerning the Ahlul Kitab funnily enough), rather then ruling is based on ijma of past scholars. Yes, the Qur'an does state not to let the mushrikeen come into Masjid al-Haram because they are najis, but this isn't take to be conclusive proof, since it could refer to spiritual najasa. Edited July 31, 2014 by Haydar Husayn

[Ethics]

I wouldn't base any arguments on this. There are arguments in favour of the Ahlul Kitab being considered najis, and I believe that used to be a more popular ruling than it currently is among scholars. Also, as far as I'm aware, there is no hadith stating that the kuffar are najis (while there are some concerning the Ahlul Kitab funnily enough), rather then ruling is based on ijma of past scholars. Yes, the Qur'an does state not to let the mushrikeen come into Masjid al-Haram because they are najis, but this isn't take to be conclusive proof, since it could refer to spiritual najasa.

 

So you are telling me to take your word for it over Sistani's, a grand ayatollah and marja?

 

Question: Can we eat the food that has been cooked by a Hindu?

Answer: If it is not known that the food is Najis and if the food does not contain meat, there would be no problem in eating it. However, if the food has been touched with a wet hand, it is not permissible to eat it.

http://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01178/

 

What is Najis?

9. The unbelievers, whether alive or dead, excluding Christians, Jews, and Magians.

http://www.sistani.org/english/book/49/2395/

 

The Ahlul Kitab (that is, the Jews, the Christians and the Zoroastrians) are ritually pure (tahir) as long as you do not know that they have become ritually impure (najis) by coming into contact with an impure object. You can follow this ruling when dealing with them. The impurity transfers from one item to another through flowing wetness [that is, there is so much wetness in the impure item that it permeates to another item and makes it impure]. The impurity is neither transferred when it is dry, nor is transferred by non-flowing wetness. So, if you place your hand on a dry najis item, your hand will not become impure. You can assume the ritual purity (taharat) of any person that you meet and shake hands with (even if that person's hand is wet) as long as you do not know his faith and religion - in such cases you can assume that he might be a Muslim or one of the Ahlul Kitab. Moreover, it is not obligatory for you to ask him in order to ascertain his religion; that is, even if doing so does not put you or him in any inconvenience. (See the question-answer section below). Any water drops or other liquids that fall upon your body or dress are to be considered pure as long as you do not know that they are najis. All kinds of alcohol (whether extracted from wood or other sources) is pure, not najis. So, the medicines, the perfumes, and the food containing alcohol are pure and can be used. It is also permissible to eat such food if the amount of alcohol is very minute, e.g., 2%. No matter who was the previous user, the everyday commodities and utensils can be used without the need for purifying them as long as you do not know that they had become najis previously. (See the question-answer section below.)

 

http://www.sistani.org/english/book/46/2029/

 

 

Mushrik (pl. mushrikin) means a polytheist, a person who believes that God has partner(s). It is used for the idol-worshippers also. The followers of Hinduism, of most far eastern religions and of the tribal religions fall in the category of mushrikin. Ahlu ' l-kitab means the people of the Book; it is a name given to those who believe in any of the Books revealed by Allah before the Qur'an. Under Islamic system, the Ahlu '1-kitab have a preferred status in comparison to other non-Muslims. The people who are unanimously counted as Ahlu '1-kitab are: the Jews, the Christians and the Zoroastrians.

 

As for the mushrikfn, the mujtahids are unanimous that they are najis. This is so because Allah has clearly declared in the Qur'an that:

“O you who believe! The polytheists (mushrikun) are indeed unclean; therefore, they should not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year of theirs (i.e., 9 AH).” (9:28)

 

Some Muslims try to interpret the word “unclean” in spiritual sense only. They are wrong because one cannot ignore the literal meaning of a word unless the context supports the departure from a literal to a symbolic meaning. The context of the verse does not leave any room for an exclusively symbolic or spiritual interpretation of the word “unclean.” It immedi­ately says that “they should not approach the Sacred Mosque.” This reflects the physical uncleanliness. How­ever, our interpretation does not exclude the spiritual impurity of the mushrikin along side the physical, ritual impurity.

 

http://www.al-islam.org/ritual-and-spiritual-purity-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi/i-najasat-taharat#8-kafirs

Edited July 31, 2014 by PureEthics