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HamzaTR

Armed Struggle Should Continue Till Israel Is Gone

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Let's not be delusional to think Israel is going anywhere, countries have gone to war against it and lost miserably, rather they are getting stronger and stronger as years pass by. Khamenei is not the one dealing with day to day oppression/suffering nor will he attack Israel, just the same emotional chanter - no practical solution presented. 

 

Palestinians got screwed, no doubt. Israel is hated, deservingly so. Palestinians have been fighting for decades and losing miserably, they are actually losing land every year, more importantly lives. Yet, it's so easy for outsiders to keep saying "Keep fighting Zionists, we are with you" sitting thousands of miles away knowing that they can't win.

 

History is filled with people/countries/groups getting screwed, Palestine is no exception, there is a point where you cut your losses, move on, and start anew. 

 

Arafat was presented with a great deal under the circumstances, he made a huge mistake. Now Palestine will never get a deal like that. Just take the best deal possible and move on, build a new existence. 

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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Let's not be delusional to think Israel is going anywhere, countries have gone to war against it and lost miserably, rather they are getting stronger and stronger as years pass by. Khamenei is not the one dealing with day to day oppression/suffering nor will he attack Israel, just the same emotional chanter - no practical solution presented. 

 

Palestinians got screwed, no doubt. Israel is hated, deservingly so. Palestinians have been fighting for decades and losing miserably, they are actually losing land every year, more importantly lives. Yet, it's so easy for outsiders to keep saying "Keep fighting Zionists, we are with you" sitting thousands of miles away knowing that they can't win.

 

History is filled with people/countries/groups getting screwed, Palestine is no exception, there is a point where you cut your losses, move on and start anew. 

 

Arafat was presented with a great deal under the circumstances, he made a huge mistake. Now Palestine will never get a deal like that. Just take the best deal possible and move on, build a new existence. 

 

 

What do you suggest Palestinians should do, and what do you suggest their supporters should do? Move on isn't exactly a suggestion.........

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Let's not be delusional to think Israel is going anywhere, countries have gone to war against it and lost miserably, rather they are getting stronger and stronger as years pass by. Khamenei is not the one dealing with day to day oppression/suffering nor will he attack Israel, just the same emotional chanter - no practical solution presented.

Palestinians got screwed, no doubt. Israel is hated, deservingly so. Palestinians have been fighting for decades and losing miserably, they are actually losing land every year, more importantly lives. Yet, it's so easy for outsiders to keep saying "Keep fighting Zionists, we are with you" sitting thousands of miles away knowing that they can't win.

History is filled with people/countries/groups getting screwed, Palestine is no exception, there is a point where you cut your losses, move on, and start anew.

Arafat was presented with a great deal under the circumstances, he made a huge mistake. Now Palestine will never get a deal like that. Just take the best deal possible and move on, build a new existence.

How was that proposal a great deal? They wanted a demilitarized Palestinan state which would have no right to self defense. They weren't getting back east Jerusalem in that deal either. That was not a great deal. It was actually good they didn't take it. It would have made the West Bank Israel's open air prison like Gaza.

What more would you want Iran to do? They have provided relief and also weapons to the Palestinans. They have been under sanctions because of their support for the Palestinans. Their strategy has been resistance and it has worked. (Ie Southern Lebanon).

And another thing, lol arab countries never actually went to war against israel for Palestine. That's the funny part that most Arabs don't accept. Their kings in Jordan and Saudi Arabia needed an excuse to give away the Palestinan lands without facing backlash, so they fooled their Arab masses into thinking they were going to war to help the suffering Palestinans, but their goal from the start was to give away Palestine. Jordan went against Palestinans and captured and controlled the West Bank before declaring war again against israel and israel taking control of it from them. Lol. Egypt controlled Gaza before "losing" it as well I think.

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Let's not be delusional to think Israel is going anywhere, countries have gone to war against it and lost miserably, rather they are getting stronger and stronger as years pass by. Khamenei is not the one dealing with day to day oppression/suffering nor will he attack Israel, just the same emotional chanter - no practical solution presented. 

 

Palestinians got screwed, no doubt. Israel is hated, deservingly so. Palestinians have been fighting for decades and losing miserably, they are actually losing land every year, more importantly lives. Yet, it's so easy for outsiders to keep saying "Keep fighting Zionists, we are with you" sitting thousands of miles away knowing that they can't win.

 

History is filled with people/countries/groups getting screwed, Palestine is no exception, there is a point where you cut your losses, move on, and start anew. 

 

Arafat was presented with a great deal under the circumstances, he made a huge mistake. Now Palestine will never get a deal like that. Just take the best deal possible and move on, build a new existence. 

A gangster come to you house, kick your mother, wife and children, killed your sons and your father... and force your to leave your house and let new gangsters to live in, and you have no where else to go.  People from different village are telling you..."resist and fight back".  And you just taking the best deal possible and move on, build an new existence.

 

If you resist and fight back and the whole family and you die in the process, it will be better than to be alive and humiliated.

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Palestinians got screwed, no doubt. Israel is hated, deservingly so. Palestinians have been fighting for decades and losing miserably, they are actually losing land every year, more importantly lives. Yet, it's so easy for outsiders to keep saying "Keep fighting Zionists, we are with you" sitting thousands of miles away knowing that they can't win.

 

I think it is wrong to see this as purely an Israeli/Palestinian issue.

 

We know from Israeli pressuring of the US to invade Iraq and taking military action against Iran that their ambitions extend beyond Palestine. They already have the Arab states of the Persian Gulf in their pockets (e.g. see the Huffington Post article someone linked to here a few days ago).

 

This is an old-style European colonial venture. Palestine is just the bridgehead.

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I think it is wrong to see this as purely an Israeli/Palestinian issue.

 

We know from Israeli pressuring of the US to invade Iraq and taking military action against Iran that their ambitions extend beyond Palestine. They already have the Arab states of the Persian Gulf in their pockets (e.g. see the Huffington Post article someone linked to here a few days ago).

 

This is an old-style European colonial venture. Palestine is just the bridgehead.

 

^ This is called foresight, aka بصيرة

 

Anyone that thinks Palestine-Israel conflict is only about, well, Palestinians they need to wake up and smell the coffee. Lebanon, Syria, Iraq are next in line.

All these turmoils in Syria and Iraq, all these killings of shias in Pakistan are the limbs of the beast, has it occurred to people that maybe....just maybe....they are trying to take your focus away from the head?

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What do you suggest Palestinians should do, and what do you suggest their supporters should do? Move on isn't exactly a suggestion.........

 

Agree to a deal similar to what was presented to Arafat, obviously they won't get a deal like what Arafat was proposed, but atleast get 70% of that - which is practical. 

 

How was that proposal a great deal? They wanted a demilitarized Palestinan state which would have no right to self defense. They weren't getting back east Jerusalem in that deal either. That was not a great deal. It was actually good they didn't take it. It would have made the West Bank Israel's open air prison like Gaza.

What more would you want Iran to do? They have provided relief and also weapons to the Palestinans. They have been under sanctions because of their support for the Palestinans. Their strategy has been resistance and it has worked. (Ie Southern Lebanon).

And another thing, lol arab countries never actually went to war against israel for Palestine. That's the funny part that most Arabs don't accept. Their kings in Jordan and Saudi Arabia needed an excuse to give away the Palestinan lands without facing backlash, so they fooled their Arab masses into thinking they were going to war to help the suffering Palestinans, but their goal from the start was to give away Palestine. Jordan went against Palestinans and captured and controlled the West Bank before declaring war again against israel and israel taking control of it from them. Lol. Egypt controlled Gaza before "losing" it as well I think.

 

I said "great deal under the circumstances".  What has happened since then? Palestinian shrank, Israel is stronger, Palestine is weaker, regular invasion and killing, more and more Israeli settlements in occupied territory, Iran's help not unable to stop Israel's progress, etc. etc.

 

Israel is glad Arafat didn't take deal, now they will keep shrinking the size of Palestine until there is no more, while you guys keep whining about how all the deals were bad.

 

holy-land-map.jpg

 

^Keep rejecting deals, it's only benefiting Israel.

 

A gangster come to you house, kick your mother, wife and children, killed your sons and your father... and force your to leave your house and let new gangsters to live in, and you have no where else to go.  People from different village are telling you..."resist and fight back".  And you just taking the best deal possible and move on, build an new existence.

 

If you resist and fight back and the whole family and you die in the process, it will be better than to be alive and humiliated.

 

People with your mindset will consider it a humiliation, I will consider it a new beginning with opportunities for the Palestinians. 

 

Egypt, Syria, and Jordan were humiliated in the 6 day war with Israel then they signed a treaty, does anyone care now? No, it's history, everyone has moved on. 

 

I think it is wrong to see this as purely an Israeli/Palestinian issue.

 

We know from Israeli pressuring of the US to invade Iraq and taking military action against Iran that their ambitions extend beyond Palestine. They already have the Arab states of the Persian Gulf in their pockets (e.g. see the Huffington Post article someone linked to here a few days ago).

 

This is an old-style European colonial venture. Palestine is just the bridgehead.

 

Meh..

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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Agree to a deal similar to what was presented to Arafat, obviously they won't get a deal like what Arafat was proposed, but atleast get 70% of that - which is practical.

I said "great deal under the circumstances". What has happened since then? Palestinian shrank, Israel is stronger, Palestine is weaker, regular invasion and killing, more and more Israeli settlements in occupied territory, Iran's help not unable to stop Israel's progress, etc. etc.

Israel is glad Arafat didn't take deal, now they will keep shrinking the size of Palestine until there is no more, while you guys keep whining about how all the deals were bad.

holy-land-map.jpg

^Keep rejecting deals, it's only benefiting Israel.

People with your mindset will consider it a humiliation, I will consider it a new beginning with opportunities for the Palestinians.

Egypt, Syria, and Jordan were humiliated in the 6 day war with Israel then they signed a treaty, does anyone care now? No, it's history, everyone has moved on.

Meh..

Could it be that israel is the one rejecting peace deals?

Don't you find it strange that each time they are negotiating "peace" that some Israeli settlers all of a sudden get shot or die and israel breaks off and goes on a rampage? Maybe it's israel that's sabotaging the peace talks each time by blaming it on the Palestinans.

Understand something, these zionists are not stupid. They have PhDs in deception and are the best at it.

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^Keep rejecting deals, it's only benefiting Israel.

 

 

Even if such 'unfair' deals were accepted, what's stopping the Zionists in the fullness of time, making up an excuse to, abrogate the agreements and expand anyway? European colonialists of the 19th century were well versed in this art.

 

To get an idea of where this is going the following map should be instructive. As everyone can see the British in India started off in the coastal areas and then expanded over a period of several decades.

 

The native Indians could be nice to the British or they could be nasty, but in the end they would have to be subservient, faced as they were with the might of a global superpower.

 

r06british.gif

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We can point out many blunders on the part of the Palestinians but, looking at the history of Israel since '48, one thing is pretty clear. The plan is to claim all the land that's currently labelled as Palestinian territories and incorporate it into the Jewish state of Israel, and make the local non-Jews to migrate to neighbouring countries once and for all. Again, Palestinians might have made many mistakes but the Israeli policy since day one has been self-evident. What more does one want than to see how Israel has expanded in the Palestinian territories since '67. If Israel had a remotest inclination to let a free, independent and sovereign Palestinian state to come into being, it might have kept the West Bank and Gaza under military occupation with bases to fight the militant Palestinians till some deal came about, but it would never have built colonies for its citizens and encouraged them to take residence by subsiding them. There are, how many, half a million Israeli Jews resident in the West bank settlements right? It is simply foolish to believe that Israel will dismantle those settlements and call back their citizens when, and if, they decide to let a free Palestine emerge with East Jerusalem as its capital, in accordance with UN resolutions, which, of course, the Israelis will never let to happen of their own accord.

 

It doesn't behoove me to say but perhaps living in ghettos has become part of the Jewish unconscious. They have lived in isolated ghettos for entries as oppressed minorities in Europe, and their descendents continue to live in walled enclosures but this time as the oppressors. What's the saying about old habits and the time they take to die?

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Could it be that israel is the one rejecting peace deals?

Don't you find it strange that each time they are negotiating "peace" that some Israeli settlers all of a sudden get shot or die and israel breaks off and goes on a rampage? Maybe it's israel that's sabotaging the peace talks each time by blaming it on the Palestinans.

Understand something, these zionists are not stupid. They have PhDs in deception and are the best at it.

 

Conspiracy theories are dime a dozen. Rabin was assassinated for agreeing to the Oslo Accords, so your theory contradicts reality.

 

Even if such 'unfair' deals were accepted, what's stopping the Zionists in the fullness of time, making up an excuse to, abrogate the agreements and expand anyway? European colonialists of the 19th century were well versed in this art.

 

To get an idea of where this is going the following map should be instructive. As everyone can see the British in India started off in the coastal areas and then expanded over a period of several decades.

 

The native Indians could be nice to the British or they could be nasty, but in the end they would have to be subservient, faced as they were with the might of a global superpower.

 

Playing the "what if" game will lead to nowhere. 

 

And I don't do examples, the Indian-British history is irrelevant. Every event in history has different variables and components. 

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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کن للظالم خصما و للمظلوم عونا

امیرالمومنین علیه صلوات الله و الملائکة و الناس اجمعین

Support the oppressed

Fight the oppressor

Imam Ali (as).

Now if anybody cannot see who is the oppressed and who is the oppressor, then he must make sincere repentance so that Allah may give him back his sight.

فانها لا تعمی الابصار و لکن تعمی القلوب التی فی الصدور

For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind. XXII46

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Khamenei is not the one dealing with day to day oppression/suffering nor will he attack Israel, just the same emotional chanter - no practical solution presented. 

 

Palestinians got screwed, no doubt. Israel is hated, deservingly so. Palestinians have been fighting for decades and losing miserably, they are actually losing land every year, more importantly lives. Yet, it's so easy for outsiders to keep saying "Keep fighting Zionists, we are with you" sitting thousands of miles away knowing that they can't win.

 

History is filled with people/countries/groups getting screwed, Palestine is no exception, there is a point where you cut your losses, move on, and start a new. 

(bismillah)

(salam)

 

What is your practical solution?

Solution that would provide the interests of the Palestinians?

Islamic and dignified solution that is consistent with the Qur'an and the manner of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) ?

You may have chosen a method that Arab countries would prefer? Or manner of America and Western countries?

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