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After Shahdat Of Imam Mehdi (Ajtf)

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As the majority shia keep asking or telling about the zahoor of Imam-e-Zamana (Ajtf) but no one is intrested in after the shahadat of Imam (Ajtf)... Because we all know that the 12th Imam will also shaheed as other 13 masoomeens(a.s) !!! we all blieve that qayamat will come after His(Ajtf) shahadat... so the question arises

 

"when the world become peacefull and there wil be no religion but islam then who will and why kiill Imam-e-Zamana (Ajtf)....?"

 

Is there any one who can help me to erase my all confusion ?? please..

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(salam)

First of all, the statement you said "we all blieve that qayamat will come after His(Ajtf) shahadat" is not correct. Everyone well-versed in Shia ahadith believes (or should believe) that after or during the 12th imam's[a.s] death comes the raj'ah الرجعة of Imam Husayn b. Ali[a.s], and after the 12th Imam's[a.s] death, Imam Husayn[a.s] will rule. 

 

Another theory a minority (The Ansar Group of the so-called Yamani) hold is that after the 12th Imam[a.s] dies, his son, who is the first of the 12 Mahdis named Ahmad, will rule, following 11 other "Mahdis" from his children. This group holds the belief that the raj'ah الرجعة of Imam Husayn[a.s] comes after the death of the 12th "Mahdi". It's a lot to swallow, due to the difference in our pre-conceived notions and commonly-held beliefs about the Mahdi and the events when he rises. I personally don't believe in this at all, because it contradicts the majority of our ahadith, as well as some contradictions within this theory itself.

 

As for your question regarding who will kill the 12th Imam[a.s], one hadith states that a Jewish woman with a mustache will kill him. I don't know about the authenticity of this report, and I have heard it is a weak narration. Wallahu A'lam. 

 

(wasalam)

Edited by Abe

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As the majority shia keep asking or telling about the zahoor of Imam-e-Zamana (Ajtf) but no one is intrested in after the shahadat of Imam (Ajtf)... Because we all know that the 12th Imam will also shaheed as other 13 masoomeens(a.s) !!! we all blieve that qayamat will come after His(Ajtf) shahadat... so the question arises

 

"when the world become peacefull and there wil be no religion but islam then who will and why kiill Imam-e-Zamana (Ajtf)....?"

 

Is there any one who can help me to erase my all confusion ?? please..

 

(salam) very valid question my dear. You see, the order of the world would be at peace and justice. This doesnt mean Allah will take our limited free will and make everyone like robots that has to do good and made to believe in Islam. Those who do not submit to Islam, Imam Mahdi A.S will rule them by their religious laws, to the point that they may revert. Remember, Shaytan will be against mankind until the day of judgement. People will still reject Allah and Imam Mahdi A.S so the ability to do evil will still be there, however VERY VERY VERY VERY little.

 

I dont know much about someone killing the Imam A.S but I do not think it is relevant for now. inshAllah worry about this life you are given and be amongst the succeeded ones. Me personally I also have some questions on this idea that they will all come back to life, so I dont really have a view. I need to research more.

 

(wasalam)

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Can i get more info about rajah....?? I have read about it in many b0oks n also read quranic verses about it... but my c0ncept is n0t clearly clear yet...

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Can i get more info about rajah....?? I have read about it in many b0oks n also read quranic verses about it... but my c0ncept is n0t clearly clear yet...

 

Your style of typing reminds me of a sunni user on this site...

 

http://slaveofali.wordpress.com/2008/09/28/rajah-the-return-before-the-day-of-judgement/

http://www.al-islam.org/180-questions-about-islam-vol-2-various-issues-makarim-shirazi/10-what-%E2%80%98rajat-return-its-occurrence

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Imam Husayn a.s? Really? I have never heard of him becoming ruler after his one of his great grandsons a.s.

What will Nabi Isa a.s. be doing at this time?

 

These are all debatable topics within our school of thought...

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well I am pure "shia" Alhumdulilah ... 

 

The pe0ple who will return, will return during the war of Imam-e-Zamana (ajtf) t0 fight against Him 0r t0 assist Him...?? right??

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Never make mockery of such great people.You people mention of him like he is just an ordinary other person of whom you all are jealous ,so you people always talk about his death.It is mentioned in some duas that this is a definite sign of a person being his enemy.Definitely you people are Ahmadis or somebody like them.You people have somebody amongst your relatives to fake as twelvth Imam and so you are all so eager to listen about his death,so that you can gain from it.But fear Allah ,He has the might to punish you severly if you continue to behave like that.Stop posting such waste of your mind.Instead think about your own death.Thats better.

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Never make mockery of such great people.You people mention of him like he is just an ordinary other person of whom you all are jealous ,so you people always talk about his death.It is mentioned in some duas that this is a definite sign of a person being his enemy.Definitely you people are Ahmadis or somebody like them.You people have somebody amongst your relatives to fake as twelvth Imam and so you are all so eager to listen about his death,so that you can gain from it.But fear Allah ,He has the might to punish you severly if you continue to behave like that.Stop posting such waste of your mind.Instead think about your own death.Thats better.

Lay of the insults. Nobody was making fun, users we're sincerely interested in the blessed imams (a.s.) demise due to there being universal peace in the world at that stage and point and no apparent harm to him by then.

Why this uncalled for nonsensical rant about brothers being ahmadis?

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(salam) very valid question my dear. You see, the order of the world would be at peace and justice. This doesnt mean Allah will take our limited free will and make everyone like robots that has to do good and made to believe in Islam. Those who do not submit to Islam, Imam Mahdi A.S will rule them by their religious laws, to the point that they may revert. Remember, Shaytan will be against mankind until the day of judgement. People will still reject Allah and Imam Mahdi A.S so the ability to do evil will still be there, however VERY VERY VERY VERY little.

 

(salam)

 

Some believe Iblees and the devils will be killed in the spiritual realms by the Imam (atf):

 

 

 

“Then you are of those who are given respite, till the day whose time is appointed” (15:36-38).
 
Tafsir: 
 
(Iblis) said: ‘My Lord! Give me respite till the day when they are raised.’ (Allah) said: “Then you are of those who are given respite, till the day whose time is appointed” (15:36-38).
 
Abu Jaafar Mohammad bin Jarir Al-Tabari narrated through his sanad from Wahab bin Jamee’ who said:
 
I asked Imam Sadiq (as) about Iblis and “the day whose time is appointed”. Imam (as) said, “O Wahab! Do you think this refers to the Day of Judgment when Allah resurrects the people?! It does not! Allah gave Iblis respite until the day of the rising of the Qa’em (as), who will hold his (Iblis’) forehead and behead him. This is the meaning of ‘the day whose time is appointed.”

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(salam)

Some believe Iblees and the devils will be killed in the spiritual realms by the Imam (atf):

Interesting although that Hadith does not say iblis so the translator put it in paranthesis. The Hadith contradicts the Quran, there are verses that mentioning explicitly that satan has till the day of judgement...

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Interesting although that Hadith does not say iblis so the translator put it in paranthesis. The Hadith contradicts the Quran, there are verses that mentioning explicitly that satan has till the day of judgement...

 

Actually I don't believe so.. in most of the verses, Iblees asks to be given respite until Qiyamah, but Allah only says yes to the respite, not explicitly until Qiyamah (but I'd have to double check).

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Actually I don't believe so.. in most of the verses, Iblees asks to be given respite until Qiyamah, but Allah only says yes to the respite, not explicitly until Qiyamah (but I'd have to double check).

 

Here is one quick example:

 

 

[shakir 15:31] But Iblis (did it not); he refused to be with those who made obeisance.

[shakir 15:32] He said: O Iblis! what excuse have you that you are not with those who make obeisance?

[shakir 15:33] He said: I am not such that I should make obeisance to a mortal whom Thou hast created of the essence of black mud fashioned in shape.

[shakir 15:34] He said: Then get out of it, for surely you are driven away:

 

[shakir 15:35] And surely on you is curse until the day of judgment.

وَإِنَّ عَلَيْكَ اللَّعْنَةَ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ الدِّينِ

 

[shakir 15:36] He said: My Lord! then respite me till the time when they are raised.

قَالَ رَبِّ فَأَنْظِرْنِي إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ يُبْعَثُونَ

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=15&verse=36

 

[shakir 15:37] He said: So surely you are of the respited ones

 

 

  • If Imam Mahdi A.S were to "destroy him", why would Allah curse him until the day of judgement? The curse should be over after he dies...
  • Also, he asks to be able to lead astray man till the day of judgement. It is not talking about rajah hear because of the verb usage. If you click on the link, the same verse is used many times in other verses portraying the day of judgement.
Edited by PureEthics

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@ equilibrium

The problems in the world are due to sin and sinful people,not because of Imam a.s.It is your foolishness to think that it is because of him so when he will not be present,everybody will have a good life.This is delusion,far from reality.It is only the sinners who were so averse to the prophets and Imams also in the past,but they all perished.It is of no use of calling me nonsense.Probably if any of your grand parents or ancestors had any sense,you wouldn't have wished bad for the Imam .So don't try to label others with your family name.

Edited by bitto

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 And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be 

shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are 

spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from 

your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; 

and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; 

whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make 

mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers. [Al-MAEDAH;64]

 

 

actually the confusion begans from here..

 

if shetan will be ended by Imam-e-Zamana ajtf... then what will be cause which differ yahood and nasara?? as it is als0 kn0wn that after Imam's reapperance and His fight against all bad no other deen will rest ,accept Islam...!!  plz shed light 0n it..

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Full Tafsir of 5:64 found here http://www.almizan.org/

 

QUR'AN: And the Jews say: "The hand of Allah is tied up!" Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expands as He pleases: The Jews did not agree that the laws of religion could be abrogated, and, for this reason, they did not accept that Tawrat could be abrogated; rather they rebuked the Muslims for abrogation of some of their laws. Similarly, they did not accept the doctrine of al-bada' in matters of creation, as is seen from various Qur'anic verses. We have elaborated this topic in the first volume of this book, under the verse: Whatever signs We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it,... (2:106). Some light has been thrown on it in other places too.

 

The verse: "And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up!'" might be referring to their above-mentioned views; however, the following clause in their rebuttal: "Nay both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases", does not leave room for such interpretation. It rather shows that they had uttered these sinful words particularly with reference to sustenance:

 

Either they had said it especially about the believers, because gen­erally they were afflicted with poverty and their condition was straitened. So, they talked in this way as a mockery against Allah, alluding that He does not have power to give riches to His believing servants nor can He rescue them from need and humiliation. But this opinion is not worthy of consideration, because the verse is in the chapter of "The Table", which was revealed (in the last years of the Prophet's life) when the Muslims enjoyed abundance of livelihood and lived a pleasant and luxurious life.

 

Or, they said it because of the famine and draught, which had made their lives miserable, disturbed their economic system, and lowered their standard of living, as appears from some of the traditions that explain the reason of revelation. But this explanation too does not agree with the context of the verses, because evidently the verses expose their various characteristics like their enmity and treachery against the Muslims whom they hated to the extreme. These verses do not allude to the sinful talks they had uttered regarding their own selves.

 

Or, they said it when they heard the Qur'anic verses, e.g.: Who is it that will lend to Allah a goodly loan (73:20). So they said: "The hand of Allah is tied up! He is not able to obtain the necessary funds to spend in His requirements for propagating His religion and reviving His mission." They had said it as a mockery and a jest against Allah, as appears from some other traditions relating to the cause of revelation.

This explanation appears nearer to reality.

 

In any case, this ascription - that the hand of Allah was tied up and He was over-powered in His plans, when some adverse situation had developed - does not go against their religious teachings nor is it alien to the descriptions and comments found in the present Tawrat. According to Tawrat, there were many things which Allah was unable to do and which prevented Him from enforcing His will time and again, as strong persons hinder weaker ones in their activities. You may look at the stories of the prophets, like Adam and others as they appear in Tawrat.

 

So, many aspects of their belief allow them to ascribe to Allah what is totally against the sanctity of His status, although in the present context they had uttered these words as a jest and mockery - we know that every action of a man emanates from some aspects of belief which he holds and which encourages him to do it.

"Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say": It is an invocation of evil against them, of the same type which they had ascribed to Allah, and which went so clearly against His sanctity and sacredness - their declaration that Allah's hand was tied up and He has no power to do what he pleases. Accordingly, the clause: "and they shall be cursed for what they say", is in explanatory conjunction with the clause: "Their hands shall be shackled", inasmuch as their hands being shackled displays the divine curse on them, because Allah's speech is His action, and He curses someone only through penalizing him with punishment either in this world or the next. Thus, this curse means a punishment equal to shackling of their hands or more total and comprehensive.

 

Someone has opined that: "Their hands shall be shackled", is (not a curse, but) a statement showing that they have already been inflicted with chastisement because of their arrogance against Allah in saying: "The hand of Allah is tied up!" But the former interpretation is more understandable.

"Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases": It is the rebuttal of their claim: "The hand of Allah is tied up!"

The sentence: "both His hands are spread out", is an allusion to His all-encompassing firmly rooted power; and such usage is very common.

Allah has said: "both His hands" (although the Jews had used singular in their talk, "The hand of Allah is tied up!") in order to show His complete and perfect power; as is the case in the verse: He said: "O Iblis! What prevented thee that thou shouldst do obeisance to him whom I created with My two hands? Art thou proud or art thou of the exalted ones?" (38:75), as it indicates or rather clearly shows the use of perfect power in Adam's creation; or as they say: 'You do not have two hands on her, to emphasize absence of every power and every favor.'

 

The dictionaries often give various meanings for 'hand' other than the body organ, like power, strength, favor, ownership and so on. However, the fact remains that word was originally coined for the said organ, and it is used in other meanings as allusion, because all other meanings have some affinity with various aspects of the hand, e.g. magnanimity and spending is related to it in its management and raising up or putting down.

 

Therefore, when the Book or Sunnah ascribes hand to Allah, its connotation changes with the context. For example, in the clauses: "both His hands are spread out (5:64)"; and: whom I created with My two hands (38:75), "hands" means power and its perfection; and in the clauses:... in Thine hand is the good... (3:26); Therefore glory be to Him in Whose hand is the Kingdom of everything... (36:83); Blessed is He in Whose hand is the Kingdom... (67:1) and other such verses, "hand" means kingdom and authority; likewise, in the verse: ...Be not forward in the presence of Allah and His Messenger... (49:1) the phrase means 'in the presence of as translated above.

"He expends as He pleases": It elaborates the clause: "both His hands are spread out".

 

QUR'AN: and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and in unbelief: The context shows that this and the sentences coming after it aim at elaborating the foregoing clauses, "And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up!' Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say."

The sentence under discussion indicates that their arrogance against Allah and their utterances like: "The hand of Allah is tied up!" are not something unexpected from them, because they have been steeped in transgression and disbelief from their earliest days; and it has emanated from their oppression and envy. When a man with such characteristics sees that Allah has given someone else excellence over him and bestows on that person inesteemable favors, his inordinacy and disbelief is bound to increase.

 

The Jews believed that they were lords, and the most developed nation of the world; they called themselves People of the Book, were proud of their doctors of law and scholars, and of their knowledge and wisdom; they called all other nations gentiles. Now, they saw that a Divine Book was revealed to a people who until then submitted to the Jewish knowledge and Book - as was the case between them and the Arabs in the Days of Ignorance. Then they looked in that Book and found it truly a Book revealed by Allah as a Guardian over all Divine Books of yore. They realized that it contained clear truth, sublime teaching, and complete guidance. They felt that this Book would subdue them and put them to shame in the very field that was the source of their pride, that is, the knowledge, and the Book. Naturally, they became alarmed and outraged, and their transgression and disbelief increased.

Their increase in transgression and disbelief has been ascribed to the Qur'an inasmuch as no sooner had their unjust and envious souls seen the revelation of the Qur'an and realized the true knowledge and manifest Call contained in it, than they rose up in transgression and disbelief.

 

Moreover, Allah has often attributed in His Book guiding and causing to go astray to Himself. For example: All do We aid- these as well as those - out of the bounty of your Lord, and the bounty of your Lord is not confined (17:20); And We reveal of the Qur’an that which is a healing and a mercy to the believers, and it adds only to the perdition of the unjust (17:82). Causing someone to go astray - or something similar to it - is considered blameworthy, if it is done initially, without any cause. But if it done as a retribution of moral depravity or sins committed by the one gone astray, then there is nothing wrong in such causing to go astray; because the man's depravity has brought down the divine wrath on him as a recompense of his wrong-doings. As Allah says: ...but He does not cause to err by it (any) except the transgressors (2:26); ...but when they turned aside, Allah made their hearts turn aside... (61:5).

 

Ultimately, the statement that the Qur'an increases in their inordinacy and disbelief, means that they are deprived of divine help, and Allah does not bring them out of their inordinacy and disbelief to submission to His will and acceptance of the true Call. This topic was explained in the first volume of this book under the verse: but He does not cause to err by it (any) except the transgressors (2:26).

Let us return to our original discussion. The verse: "and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in ordinacy and in unbelief;" aims at removing any astonishment as to how could those people who called themselves the People of the Book and claimed to be the sons and beloveds of Allah, could dare to utter this contemptuous and insulting sentence that the hand of Allah was tied up.

They are most certainly steeped in inordinacy and disbelief, a trace of which is seen in this statement; and it is bound to be followed by signs after hideous signs; and this is what is inferred from the verb having the prefix of the la of oath and suffix of the nun of emphasis.

The verse mentions inordinacy before disbelief, keeping in view the natural sequence, because disbelief is among the vestiges and results of inordinacy.

 

QUR'AN: and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection: The pronoun "them" refers to the Jews, as is evident from the position of the sentence within the talk relating particularly to the Jews, although it had initially covered the People of the Book in general. Accordingly, the enmity and hatred points to the discord and difference that is found in their various sects and schools of thought. Allah has pointed to it in various places in His Book; for example: And certainly We gave the Book and the Wisdom and the Prophecy to the Children of Israel, and We gave them of the goodly things, and We made them excel the nations. And We gave them clear arguments in the affair, but they did not differ until after knowledge had come to them, revolting among themselves; surely your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein they differed (45:16-17), apart from other similar verses.

 

It seems that enmity points to the hate that is accompanied by transgression in action, and hatred indicates aversion of the heart, even if it does not show in action. The combination of the two in the verse indicates a hate that causes injustice against another party and the one, which does not reach that stage.
The clause: "till the Day of Resurrection", obviously shows that their ummah will continue up to the end of the world.

Edited by PureEthics

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Here is one quick example:

 

 

[shakir 15:31] But Iblis (did it not); he refused to be with those who made obeisance.

[shakir 15:32] He said: O Iblis! what excuse have you that you are not with those who make obeisance?

[shakir 15:33] He said: I am not such that I should make obeisance to a mortal whom Thou hast created of the essence of black mud fashioned in shape.

[shakir 15:34] He said: Then get out of it, for surely you are driven away:

 

[shakir 15:35] And surely on you is curse until the day of judgment.

وَإِنَّ عَلَيْكَ اللَّعْنَةَ إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ الدِّينِ

 

[shakir 15:36] He said: My Lord! then respite me till the time when they are raised.

قَالَ رَبِّ فَأَنْظِرْنِي إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ يُبْعَثُونَ

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=15&verse=36

 

[shakir 15:37] He said: So surely you are of the respited ones

 

 

  • If Imam Mahdi A.S were to "destroy him", why would Allah curse him until the day of judgement? The curse should be over after he dies...
  • Also, he asks to be able to lead astray man till the day of judgement. It is not talking about rajah hear because of the verb usage. If you click on the link, the same verse is used many times in other verses portraying the day of judgement.

 

 

(salam)

 

This is all off-topic.. first of all, not everyone believes that the Imam (atf) will do this, but going with this view - Allah never gives explicit respite until Qiyamah even in what you just quoted.. you assume that from reading it, and that's what Imam al-Sadiq (as) said in that hadith. And the curse Allah puts on him was before he even asked for respite, it doesn't have to be with regards to his lifespan... it could be something like being devoid of Gods mercy, or being unable to sincerely repent all the way until judgement day, I don't really know.

 

I personally believe that Iblees will be killed by the Imam in establishing the kingdom of heaven on earth, simply because I know of many non-muslims who are awake spiritually and are fighting these demons right now. There will be a war in the spiritual world not just in the physical. And there are hadith which say that human beings will be conversing with the jinn and angels during that time, you really think Iblees will have free reign then? Of course, we don't know anything yet, but I don't believe he will be around. God only knows.

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(salam)

 

This is all off-topic.. first of all, not everyone believes that the Imam (atf) will do this, but going with this view - Allah never gives explicit respite until Qiyamah even in what you just quoted.. you assume that from reading it,

 

(wasalam)

 

Brother I am not "assuming" anything. I am merely repeating what is being said by the verses. And yes, it does explicitly show this.

 

1. Allah curses Him until the DAY OF JUDGEMENT. If as you claim he will be killed/punished prior to then, then the curse wouldnt be until the day of judgement. Simple logic.

 

2. Then satan asks Allah to to not punish him (respite) until the day they are raised. There is clearly a description of the day of judgement through the way of the quran. I provided proof for that as well, if you claim otherwise.

 

Therefore, I have established your hypothesis is false. A further point is, how does Satan know of the day Imam Mahdi A.S comes? That is only with Allah and those whom He chooses to know. Supposedly Allah will let satan, the worst creature to know the arrival of Imam Mahdi A.S but not us, his follwers o_O Besides, you are telling me, Satan knew when he is going to die and get supposedly slayed by Imam Mahdi A.S? From the quranic viewpoint it is absurd. Even through the hadith (even if it is authentic) you have posted, it doesnt even mention satan at all. The translator or who ever translated it made their own assumption.

 

 

And the curse Allah puts on him was before he even asked for respite, it doesn't have to be with regards to his lifespan... it could be something like being devoid of Gods mercy, or being unable to sincerely repent all the way until judgement day, I don't really know.

 

I am only going by your argument, if you dont even know what the curse is, how do you conclude he will get killed by the imam A.S ? To me this is an inconsistency with your argument. Lets not make our own interpretations and conclusions. One hadith isnt enough to prove anything, there must be a basis with clear evidence. If I am wrong, please feel free to refute my points. With the support of the quran, I find Imam Mahdi A.S supposedly killing satan to be purposeless. What is the point of the day of judgement and eternal hell, if he supposedly comes out of hiding and the Imam A.S kills him?  Besides what happens after that?

Edited by PureEthics

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(salam)

 

2. Then satan asks Allah to to not punish him (respite) until the day they are raised. There is clearly a description of the day of judgement through the way of the quran. I provided proof for that as well, if you claim otherwise.

 

 

And where did Allah say he gave him respite until Qiyamah? He said you have been given respite, not until Qiyamah, that was the assumption made from the context (I didn't mean to say that you specifically were making assumptions, only that the reader makes this assumption).

 

Therefore, I have established your hypothesis is false. A further point is, how does Satan know of the day Imam Mahdi A.S comes? That is only with Allah and those whom He chooses to know. Supposedly Allah will let satan, the worst creature to know the arrival of Imam Mahdi A.S but not us, his follwers o_O Besides, you are telling me, Satan knew when he is going to die and get supposedly slayed by Imam Mahdi A.S? From the quranic viewpoint it is absurd. Even through the hadith (even if it is authentic) you have posted, it doesnt even mention satan at all. The translator or who ever translated it made their own assumption.

 

Where did I say he would know when Imam Mahdi is coming? I completely lost you... He was given respite, Allah didn't tell him until when only until "yawmil waqtil ma'loom", that was Imam al-Sadiq (as) telling us when if you go by that hadith. 

 

 

Even through the hadith (even if it is authentic) you have posted, it doesnt even mention satan at all. The translator or who ever translated it made their own assumption.

 

Not all believe in this hadith as I said before (and I could care less for the rijal seeing as how every real dua is fake by those standards).. and did you really read it? it clearly mentions Iblees - "... Do you think this refers to the Day of Judgment when Allah resurrects the people?! It does not! Allah gave Iblis respite until the day of the rising of the Qa’em.."

 

Anyway, this is a waste of time arguing this and derailing the thread. Believe what you want.

Edited by Fuan

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(salam)

 

 

And where did Allah say he gave him respite until Qiyamah? He said you have been given respite, not until Qiyamah, that was the assumption made from the context (I didn't say you were making assumptions).

 

 

MY dear brother, what is the day of raising from the view point of the quran itself? Day of judgement. How you might ask? Not assumption, but fact due to Allah using the same description in terms of describing the day of judgement.

 

 

Where did I say he would know when Imam Mahdi is coming? I completely lost you... He was given respite, Allah didn't tell him until when, that was Imam al-Sadiq (as) telling us if you go by that hadith.

 

You are trying to argue against the interpretation of the verses I quoted. Then you must imply that satan knows the coming of Imam Mahdi A.S, else why would he ask to be given respite until that day? , of which you claim is the arrival of imam Mahdi A.S.

 

 

Not all believe in this hadith as I said before (and I could care less for the rijal seeing as how every real dua is fake by those standards).. and did you really read it? it clearly mentions Iblees - "... It does not! Allah gave Iblis respite until the day of the rising of the Qa’em.."

 

Anyone, Anyone who tells you a dua is "fake" due to rijal has absolutely no clue what so ever of the Islamic method of Rijal or anything for that matter. For Dua's are not subject to authentication. They are mustahab acts of which any single person can make one up. It is not only subject to the imams. Even if it were so that the chain was weak, through other hadith, it is proven that those who so supplicate with such duas gains its benefits. This is a great explanation Examining Dua Tawasul. Yes it explicitly mentions Iblis of getting respite but the second part iblis is in quotes which only means it is assumed by the translator and not in the actual arabic, therefore it cannot be concluded it is speaking about iblis, when it could possibly be talking about the Imam A.S destroying dijjal or some other evil being.

 

If it is the truth, I wanna believe it. But through belief comes validation.

 

(wasalam)

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MY dear brother, what is the day of raising from the view point of the quran itself? Day of judgement. How you might ask? Not assumption, but fact due to Allah using the same description in terms of describing the day of judgement.

 

You are trying to argue against the interpretation of the verses I quoted. Then you must imply that satan knows the coming of Imam Mahdi A.S, else why would he ask to be given respite until that day? , of which you claim is the arrival of imam Mahdi A.S.

 

 

[shakir 15:37] He said: So surely you are of the respited ones. ===== Where does it say until Qiyamah in Allah's response? Even if it is Qiyamah, then by your logic, Iblees knows when Qiyamah is going to happen, the exact day? of course he doesn't. Similarly, if Allah actually told him until the day of the rising of Imam Mahdi (atf), does that mean he has to know exactly when that day is? Or just that it is a day that will come near the end of time? 

 

But you are right about the curse.. I have no idea what it means.

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[shakir 15:37] He said: So surely you are of the respited ones. ===== Where does it say until Qiyamah in Allah's response? Even if it is Qiyamah, then by your logic, Iblees knows when Qiyamah is going to happen, the exact day? of course he doesn't. Similarly, if Allah actually told him until the day of the rising of Imam Mahdi (atf), does that mean he has to know exactly when that day is? Or just that it is a day that will come near the end of time? 

 

But you are right about the curse.. I have no idea what it means.

 

[shakir 15:36] He said: My Lord! then respite me till the time when they are raised. I already pointed it out, he asked Allah specifically, and Allah answered him. No, he does not know when the day of judgement is. Saying until the day of judgement, means he knows there will be a day of judgement, just as we all know. However, if you interpret it as the day of Imam Mahdi A.S, how do you explain he knows this, when it is only Allah who knew that Imam Mahdi A.S will be hidden? There is no evidence satan would know such a thing during the time he fell from the skys. Do you get what I am trying to say? How does satan know the plan of Allah? Who gave him knowledge of what is to come? Why? One can say however, clearly according to the quran, he knows about the representatives of Allah due to Adam A.S, but how would one explain why he knew of what takes place?

 

(wasalam)

Edited by PureEthics

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The pe0ple who will return, will return during the war of Imam-e-Zamana (ajtf) t0 fight against Him 0r t0 assist Him...?? right?? raja'at is all about this...??

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Some pi0us believing pe0ple will return fr0m their graves t0 fight al0ngside the imam 0f 0ur time. D0 y0u understand n0w?  :shifty:

Edited by Abe

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[shakir 15:36] He said: My Lord! then respite me till the time when they are raised. I already pointed it out, he asked Allah specifically, and Allah answered him. No, he does not know when the day of judgement is. Saying until the day of judgement, means he knows there will be a day of judgement, just as we all know. However, if you interpret it as the day of Imam Mahdi A.S, how do you explain he knows this, when it is only Allah who knew that Imam Mahdi A.S will be hidden? There is no evidence satan would know such a thing during the time he fell from the skys. Do you get what I am trying to say? How does satan know the plan of Allah? Who gave him knowledge of what is to come? Why? One can say however, clearly according to the quran, he knows about the representatives of Allah due to Adam A.S, but how would one explain why he knew of what takes place?

 

(wasalam)

 

(salam)

 

Was too busy to respond before.

 

You keep quoting Iblees, not the response that Allah gives. In Allah's response, there is no affirmation that he is given until Qiyamah, only until "waqtil ma'loom". [He (Allah) said: So surely you are of the respited ones, Till the period of the time made known.]

 

Also, the hadith of Imam al-Sadiq (as) doesn't say that Iblees knows anything. It only tells us the true meaning of Allah's words (if you accept it). And, as Allah says "waqtil ma'loom" in His response, the plan that there will be a Mahdi is not revealed, and Iblees doesn't [have to] know what exactly it means, he only knows that he has more time to live as Allah said he is of "the respited ones."

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(salam)

 

Was too busy to respond before.

 

You keep quoting Iblees, not the response that Allah gives. In Allah's response, there is no affirmation that he is given until Qiyamah, only until "waqtil ma'loom". [He (Allah) said: So surely you are of the respited ones, Till the period of the time made known.]

 

 

Um of course I am quoting Ibless. He is speaking with Allah. It would make no sense what so ever, if iblees is supposedly was speaking about one day while Allah speaks about another. I have already proven that this is referring to the day of Judgement. To destroy this argument once and for all:

 

Check these out which first looks at the verse word by word. Second link looks at all verses in the quran that stem from the word "appointed (well known) time". Third brings another verse using the same word of which proves it is about the day of judgement.

 

http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=15&verse=37

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=wqt#%2815:38:3%29

http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=%2878:17:5%29

 

 

The verse you just quoted: إِلَىٰ يَوْمِ الْوَقْتِ الْمَعْلُومِ

 

Same wording found in verse 78:17 of which all verses after it affirm it is speaking about the day of judgement:

 

إِنَّ يَوْمَ الْفَصْلِ كَانَ مِيقَاتًا

 

[shakir 78:17] Surely the day of decision is (a day) appointed:

[shakir 78:18] The day on which the trumpet shall be blown so you shall come forth in hosts,

[shakir 78:19] And the heaven shall be opened so that it shall be all openings,

[shakir 78:20] And the mountains shall be moved off so that they shall remain a mere semblance.

[shakir 78:21] Surely hell lies in wait,

 

even further Shia scholars affirm it also in their tafsir: Quran.Al-Islam.org

 

(wasalam)

Edited by PureEthics

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Um of course I am quoting Ibless. He is speaking with Allah. It would make no sense what so ever, if iblees is supposedly was speaking about one day while Allah speaks about another. 

 

Actually it does make sense. Iblees asks - can I have this? - Allah answers - you can have whatever I tell you, you can have.

 

I have already proven that this is referring to the day of Judgement. To destroy this argument once and for all: 

 

No you haven't proven it in any of your previous posts, and nor have you proved it here.

 

All I have to say is - there are people in my own household (not even very religious), who can see half the jinn and know when they are around, forget about the future when the Imam (atf) has established the kingdom of heaven on the earth. There is no chance Iblees will live until Qiyamah. I honestly believe this hadith even if you tell me the chain is full of liars.

 

And I leave it at that.

Edited by Fuan

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