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Sumerian

North Korea In The World Cup!

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North Korea has just won their World Cup group, according to State propaganda -

Funnily, some people support this anti-freedom, and corrupt government because they're against the U.S.

Might aswell support Salaah al-Deen al-Ayoubi or some Abbassid Caliphate because they fought the enemies of Islaam.

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fake propaganda video.

 

first of all,they are not anti-freedom and corrupt,they just not meet western idea of freedom(where America the greatest country on earth can infiltrate in their culture,politics and other fields)

even if they are corrupt and anti freedom then at least their stance against US is applaudable.

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On a serious note though, as ridiculously hilarious this may be, it's still sad to see how the innocent North Koreans can be easily fooled and deluded by their comical government at this modern digital age that we live in. At least though, I hope some if not the majority of their people, don't take this guy seriously.

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fake propaganda video.

 

first of all,they are not anti-freedom and corrupt,they just not meet western idea of freedom(where America the greatest country on earth can infiltrate in their culture,politics and other fields)

even if they are corrupt and anti freedom then at least their stance against US is applaudable.

If you had a choice between living in either North Korea or USA, which one would you choose?

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It's the official channel LOL. They post random news too.

fake propaganda video.

 

first of all,they are not anti-freedom and corrupt,they just not meet western idea of freedom(where America the greatest country on earth can infiltrate in their culture,politics and other fields)

even if they are corrupt and anti freedom then at least their stance against US is applaudable.

Let's praise some killer 'Caliphs' because they fought the enemies of Islaam

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The posted video is a fake...

Which makes the person who posted it, a gullable person who fell for a crude piece of propaganda. Hmmm... interesting.

Dear al-Najashi:

The question of "where would you rather live" is rather irrelevant, at least in this context.

The point is not that everyone should move to the DPRK because of its superior political system; rather, that we (Shias, i.e. people who know better) should defend this resistant nation against the many slanders and plots against it.

But now that we're on the topic of "choice" and "football," take a look at Jong Tai-se. A Japanese-born Korean who could have played for three national teams: Japan, South Korea, and North Korea. Guess which one he chose? (FYI, most Koreans in Japan would have made the same decision had they been in his place).

The first step for anyone, IMO, is to put down the language of CNN and BBC. If you distrust them with regard to Iran or Syria, don't accept what they say without question simply because you don't know anything about Korea. Imagine if someone slanders my brother and I dismiss him as a liar, but then this same person is saying bad things about some dude I barely know... and I believe everything he says. It's illogical.

So, just break that paradigm entirely and start anew. Look at the issue with eyes untainted by rubbish. And if you don't feel like it, then just withhold judgement.

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It's the official channel LOL. They post random news too.

Let's praise some killer 'Caliphs' because they fought the enemies of Islaam

 

You are a fresh one.

 

1. Supporting the Cause is different than supporting the person/regime.

 

2. If someone or some group is fighting for something and in addition is not fighting against Islam nor is anti-Islam then why not support them? Specially if that cause is same as yours?

 

3. Your Caliph example is terrible and puny at best. How about you join 2014 and learn who today's "Caliphs" and Yazids are and maybe you will actually say something that intrigues people instead of obsessing about the Caliphs.  

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You are a fresh one.

1. Supporting the Cause is different than supporting the person/regime.

2. If someone or some group is fighting for something and in addition is not fighting against Islam nor is anti-Islam then why not support them? Specially if that cause is same as yours?

The posted video is a fake...

Which makes the person who posted it, a gullable person who fell for a crude piece of propaganda. Hmmm... interesting.

Dear al-Najashi:

The question of "where would you rather live" is rather irrelevant, at least in this context.

The point is not that everyone should move to the DPRK because of its superior political system; rather, that we (Shias, i.e. people who know better) should defend this resistant nation against the many slanders and plots against it.

Generally, there is no harm in supporting any group that has a cause in favor of the interests of the Muslims, regardless of whether they are Muslim or not. However at the same time, supporting them remains valid only when they are 'Adl.

Our Imams(as) have been explicitly clear in condemning anyone who stands up In supporting someone who has oppressed people, even if their cause works in the interests of Muslims. Moreover, Shi'as I really don't feel that I should stress on that a lot, especially when 'Adalah is an integral component of our beliefs. Kim Jong Un is not 'Adil, but rather, like any past communist leaders, is a tyrant leader who holds his authority over his people using an iron fist, no different than Saddam, Gamal Abdul-Nasir or even Stalin. With that being said,I believe dissociating from him is necessarily. If you say otherwise, then kindly present your evidence which persuades you to believe that he's either just, or supporting him is permissible.

WS

Edited by Al-Najashi

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enerally, there is no harm in supporting any group that has a cause in favor of the interests of the Muslims, regardless of whether they are Muslim or not. However at the same time, supporting them remains valid only when they are 'Adl.

Our Imams(as) have been explicitly clear in condemning anyone who stands up In supporting someone who has oppressed people, even if their cause works in the interests of Muslims. Moreover, Shi'as I really don't feel that I should stress on that a lot, especially when 'Adalah is an integral component of our beliefs. Kim Jong Un is not 'Adil, but rather, like any past communist leaders, is a tyrant leader who holds his authority over his people using an iron fist, no different than Saddam, Gamal Abdul-Nasir or even Stalin. With that being said,I believe dissociating from him is necessarily. If you say otherwise, then kindly present your evidence which persuades you to believe that he's either just, or supporting him is permissible.

WS

 

 

 

Who told you he is a tyrant? This is my problem, people keep calling him a tyrant, but i have yet to see proof of this from a unbiased source. I can't judge a person of being a tyrant and oppressor based on western media, i'm sorry but it just doesn't cut it for me.

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Who told you he is a tyrant? This is my problem, people keep calling him a tyrant, but i have yet to see proof of this from a unbiased source. I can't judge a person of being a tyrant and oppressor based on western media, i'm sorry but it just doesn't cut it for me.

Communism is one. We have seen what type of leaders it produced in Russia over the last century and how "just" they were to their people, and North Korean communism today is inspired by Russian communism from the beginning. Likewise for China and their treatment towards minorities(for example Tibetans).

Moreover, I have met some South Koreans in the past, and when I asked them about North Korea and how people live there, all of them told me that generally the majority of North Koreans are not happy living under their current government. Many of them know how South Korea is and how much the quality of life is better there than in North Korea. Moreover, there are some of them who do try to cross the borders into South Korea illegally, hoping to start better lives there. Those that make it across are hospitalized by the South Korean government, but most who do try to escape are eventually shot dead by North Korean border patrols. In other words, it is undeniable that there are North Koreans who do try to escape to South Korea and are killed by North Korean soldiers, and that alone I believe should tell you a little about the conditions that these people are living under. You might not think that this a valid source which you can easily confirm yourself, but ask any South Korean who has met North Korean refugees that reside in South Korea and they will tell you the same thing.

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Communism is one. We have seen what type of leaders it produced in Russia over the last century and how "just" they were to their people, and North Korean communism today is inspired by Russian communism from the beginning. Likewise for China and their treatment towards minorities(for example Tibetans).

Moreover, I have met some South Koreans in the past, and when I asked them about North Korea and how people live there, all of them told me that generally the majority of North Koreans are not happy living under their current government. Many of them know how South Korea is and how much the quality of life is better there than in North Korea. Moreover, there are some of them who do try to cross the borders into South Korea illegally, hoping to start better lives there. Those that make it across are hospitalized by the South Korean government, but most who do try to escape are eventually shot dead by North Korean border patrols. In other words, it is undeniable that there are North Koreans who do try to escape to South Korea and are killed by North Korean soldiers, and that alone I believe should tell you a little about the conditions that these people are living under. You might not think that this a valid source which you can easily confirm yourself, but ask any South Korean who has met North Korean refugees that reside in South Korea and they will tell you the same thing.

 

I rest my case.....

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It's easy -

Communism, no freedom of speech, no Internet, blocked foreign access, stupid 'laws', very hard to leave the country, alot of the money goes on making weapons instead of feeding people all lead to the fact that this State and it's government are OPPRESSING their own people.

Salaah al-Deen killed and oppressed Shee'ah but fought the Crusaders. Let's praise him nIght and DAY!

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It's easy -

Communism, no freedom of speech, no Internet, blocked foreign access, stupid 'laws', very hard to leave the country, alot of the money goes on making weapons instead of feeding people all lead to the fact that this State and it's government are OPPRESSING their own people.

Salaah al-Deen killed and oppressed Shee'ah but fought the Crusaders. Let's praise him nIght and DAY!

 

Apparently, for you in particular, everything is easy the way you conjure things in your head. But then again you are young and everything is very easy.

 

No one is agreeing with Communism as an ideology, but to say what you are saying is nothing short of ignorant.

 

What part of what i said do you have trouble understanding? If you have problems with the English language i can try to get someone to translate into Arabic for you if you wish. 

 

Salaah al-Deen killed shias, so how is that a relevant example? Che Guevara, Hugo Chaves, Castro, don't kill shias and didn't mind people being muslims or practicing islam. At the same time they were fighting our common enemies. So how, did you come to the conclusion, that Salaah al-Deen is a smart example to give? 

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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand DaBeast is wrong. Again.

 

And in truly poetic fashion, he (and anyone else who posted this on reddit or facebook or twitter or twitjournal or youface) fell victim to the very thing that he thinks the North Koreans have fell for: a crude, impossibly stupid piece of propaganda.

 

It's amazing how the most gullible and unintelligent of people have a tendency to be the most outspoken when it comes to the public discourse in North Korea.

 

 

Nonetheless, this topic has been done to death on shiachat. And every time, the "anti-DPRK" crew repeats the same basic slogans which are easily refutable. I'm not going to bother going point-for-point because I have done that many times in the past and now I'm an old man.

 

But here are some points, for your reflection.

 

What was Kim Il-sung (founder of the DPRK, grandfather of Kim Jong-un) doing in the 1930s and 40s when his country was occupied by Japan? He was fighting against the occupiers, alongside the Chinese, in Manchuria.

 

Meanwhile, what was Park Chung-hee (the "great modernizer" of South Korea) doing? Well... he was collaborating with the Japanese, at the expense of his own people.

 

Imagine if Iran was split in two, and one side became ruled by Masoud Rajavi. That's what happened in Korea. Most of the rulers of South Korea have been Masoud Rajavis. Former collaborators. Essentially: traitors to their people.

 

Here is another point to consider. In (I think) 1968, the DPRK sent spies to assassinate Park Chung-hee. They were caught. Many of them were beheaded on the spot. One of the ones who was spared, became a sort of sloganeer against communism and against the North. A few years later, he defected back to North Korea. This is a story you will never hear on CNN.

 

Another point: I myself, though I admire the DPRK for its principled stances and its brave people, always considered their nuclear position to be wrong. But then I stopped being stupid and actually looked at the history of this issue and saw the truth of the matter. The DPRK, unfortunately, is in a weak disposition. It has been so since the 1990s. It is a poor country which has few diplomatic and political points in its favor to combat its overwhelmingly powerful enemy (the USA). The nuclear issue is something they NEED to ensure their security. They probably don't have a bomb, but they always drop suggestions and innuendos that they do. This is how they play diplomacy, and in fairness to them it has worked. It was necessary for them.

 

And they are not the temper-tantrum-throwing child that the Western media portrays them as (that very tone just reeks of orientalism). Clinton offered very limited concessions to the DPRK and they responded by opening up all their facilities to UN inspectors (even some facilities which neither the UN nor the IAEA had any knowledge of).

 

More food for thought: the Korean War was worse than anything Muslims/Shias have faced in recent history. Just on the basis of numbers alone. Essentially, 60 years ago, the North Korean people experienced a genocide. About a third of their population were killed, by the same country which threatens North Korea to this very day.

 

And finally I want to make a point with respect to Kim Jong-il. You all may have certain ideas about him. GW Bush called him a "pygmie." Most people, no matter how seemingly "progressive" and "anti-imperialist" they are, more or less agree. They make fun of him for how he looks, how he dresses, and how (they think) he is. Before anyone gets on my case about "ohhhhh ur difending kim chong song? isnt he, like, a kamunist?" Please just... go away. This is a question of truth and falsehood; not about this or that individual.

 

Aside from the general assertions that he's "crazy," (aren't all opponents of imperialism crazy?) there are more specific rumors which I want to address. Such as, the notion that he had a harem full of young women. This really has zero evidence. Whatsoever. And the few primary source accounts we have of his personal life (most of them from his daughter who spent a lot of time in the West), would indicate that if anything, he is closer to being asexual than to being some sort of perverted fiend. (By the way, this assertion also reeks of orientalism; there is a long-standing racist notion that Eastern men have insatiable desires and thus, harems).

 

And I guess that's all for tonight. Good night friends.

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Apparently, for you in particular, everything is easy the way you conjure things in your head. But then again you are young and everything is very easy.

 

No one is agreeing with Communism as an ideology, but to say what you are saying is nothing short of ignorant.

 

What part of what i said do you have trouble understanding? If you have problems with the English language i can try to get someone to translate into Arabic for you if you wish. 

 

Salaah al-Deen killed shias, so how is that a relevant example? Che Guevara, Hugo Chaves, Castro, don't kill shias and didn't mind people being muslims or practicing islam. At the same time they were fighting our common enemies. So how, did you come to the conclusion, that Salaah al-Deen is a smart example to give?

Let me change it, Salaah al-Deen killed "innocent people".

Likewise, North Korea kills innocent people.

Over

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Let me change it, Salaah al-Deen killed "innocent people".

Likewise, North Korea kills innocent people.

Over

 

Since we can just accuse people of killing "innocent people", then i say you kill innocent people too. 

 

See your childlike mentality? I know your 15, but you can't be this silly when debating. 

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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand DaBeast is wrong. Again.

 

And in truly poetic fashion, he (and anyone else who posted this on reddit or facebook or twitter or twitjournal or youface) fell victim to the very thing that he thinks the North Koreans have fell for: a crude, impossibly stupid piece of propaganda.

 

It's amazing how the most gullible and unintelligent of people have a tendency to be the most outspoken when it comes to the public discourse in North Korea.

 

 

Nonetheless, this topic has been done to death on shiachat. And every time, the "anti-DPRK" crew repeats the same basic slogans which are easily refutable. I'm not going to bother going point-for-point because I have done that many times in the past and now I'm an old man.

 

But here are some points, for your reflection.

 

What was Kim Il-sung (founder of the DPRK, grandfather of Kim Jong-un) doing in the 1930s and 40s when his country was occupied by Japan? He was fighting against the occupiers, alongside the Chinese, in Manchuria.

 

Meanwhile, what was Park Chung-hee (the "great modernizer" of South Korea) doing? Well... he was collaborating with the Japanese, at the expense of his own people.

 

Imagine if Iran was split in two, and one side became ruled by Masoud Rajavi. That's what happened in Korea. Most of the rulers of South Korea have been Masoud Rajavis. Former collaborators. Essentially: traitors to their people.

 

Here is another point to consider. In (I think) 1968, the DPRK sent spies to assassinate Park Chung-hee. They were caught. Many of them were beheaded on the spot. One of the ones who was spared, became a sort of sloganeer against communism and against the North. A few years later, he defected back to North Korea. This is a story you will never hear on CNN.

 

Another point: I myself, though I admire the DPRK for its principled stances and its brave people, always considered their nuclear position to be wrong. But then I stopped being stupid and actually looked at the history of this issue and saw the truth of the matter. The DPRK, unfortunately, is in a weak disposition. It has been so since the 1990s. It is a poor country which has few diplomatic and political points in its favor to combat its overwhelmingly powerful enemy (the USA). The nuclear issue is something they NEED to ensure their security. They probably don't have a bomb, but they always drop suggestions and innuendos that they do. This is how they play diplomacy, and in fairness to them it has worked. It was necessary for them.

 

And they are not the temper-tantrum-throwing child that the Western media portrays them as (that very tone just reeks of orientalism). Clinton offered very limited concessions to the DPRK and they responded by opening up all their facilities to UN inspectors (even some facilities which neither the UN nor the IAEA had any knowledge of).

 

More food for thought: the Korean War was worse than anything Muslims/Shias have faced in recent history. Just on the basis of numbers alone. Essentially, 60 years ago, the North Korean people experienced a genocide. About a third of their population were killed, by the same country which threatens North Korea to this very day.

 

And finally I want to make a point with respect to Kim Jong-il. You all may have certain ideas about him. GW Bush called him a "pygmie." Most people, no matter how seemingly "progressive" and "anti-imperialist" they are, more or less agree. They make fun of him for how he looks, how he dresses, and how (they think) he is. Before anyone gets on my case about "ohhhhh ur difending kim chong song? isnt he, like, a kamunist?" Please just... go away. This is a question of truth and falsehood; not about this or that individual.

 

Aside from the general assertions that he's "crazy," (aren't all opponents of imperialism crazy?) there are more specific rumors which I want to address. Such as, the notion that he had a harem full of young women. This really has zero evidence. Whatsoever. And the few primary source accounts we have of his personal life (most of them from his daughter who spent a lot of time in the West), would indicate that if anything, he is closer to being asexual than to being some sort of perverted fiend. (By the way, this assertion also reeks of orientalism; there is a long-standing racist notion that Eastern men have insatiable desires and thus, harems).

 

And I guess that's all for tonight. Good night friends.

I'm not sure how any of your points are relevant to the discussion. Again, this is about the 'Adalah of Kim Jung Un and his treatment towards his people. Whether he is developing nuclear weapons or not(as the US claims) and trying to expose how treacherous South Korean leaders were during the Korean War is irrelevant to this discussion.

Moreover, you have remained completely silent on the apparent and undeniable fact that there are North Koreans citizens who defected into South Korea and other neighbours. Also, we aren't talking about a handful of people here,but a significant number of people defecting. For example, China even recently announced its concern about the rising number of North Koreans crossing its borders, and is deciding to send future defectors back to North Korea. At the same time, It would be unreasonable to deny this as a fact, and blatantly label it as "Western propaganda". If that is indeed the case, what can one say about the many testimonies coming from North Koreans living in the west that escaped from their country?

Now I'm not claiming to be an expert on North Korean policies or fully have an ariel view overlooking the entire country, but at least I do acknowledge the fact that there are people in that country that are trying to get out against the will of the government, and that alone should raise some question marks on the "justice" of Kim and his regime. It should also raise more question marks on this regime when they execute anyone who tries to escape. That actually of reminds me of the tactics used by Saddam's republican guards to execute Iraqi men who refused to take part in the Iran-Iraq war and those soldiers that joined the war, but later defected. It's the same tactic that North Korea uses, but the only difference is, it uses it not only against its soldiers, but people who try to escape as well. It's also the same approach used by generally almost all totalitarian states that we have witnessed in the past century, regardless if they are Communist or Pan-Arab nationalists, from Stalin, Hitler, Saddam and now Kim, that is, the leader holds the country and it's together aggressively and make his people fear him to maintain his position in power.

With that being said, I don't know the exact reason for those thousands of North Korean defectors, and the conditions they lived in. However, when considering that many of them risked their lives and the lives of their children, just to "get the hell out" , it should tell you a lot about the conditions that these people were living under Kim. In other words, clearly they are living under a government that they are not pleased with, so there is no justification from our part to join hands with their leaders just because their interests correlate with ours. The prophet(pbuh) if he had known that any of the Arab tribe leaders were unjust to their people, he would never have allowed them to continue governing their tribe while their people continue living under their oppression, regardless of how much these tribal leaders supported (pbuh).

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Does the other side have 'adala?

It's politics, not Jama'a prayer.

It is a choice between the evil and the more evil.

Then there's one third option for those who really want to maintain their piety and that's absolute silence.

And in a greater scope, that very silence helps the imperialism to continue fooling the world with its propaganda.

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I hope Kim Jong Un dies at this very moment. He executed some people because they weren't clapping at one of his events. He is a man child, who is not even fit to rule a county or a neighborhood. Hopefully the North Koreans overthrow him and see through this mist that the Kim family are but a bunch of spoiled brats whose place belongs in hell.

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