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In the Name of God بسم الله

Building Shrines Ver Graves

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The only thing in the Qur'an is a verse about how there was a shrine built over the companions of the cave, and there was neither criticism nor praise for that action. 

 

PS - LOL this is horrible timing for this topic.

Edited by ChattingwithShias
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Hadith Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol 1, #426 "...they who would build a place of worship at his (a righteous, pious man) grave and make these pictures in it; they are the worst creatures in the sight of Allah (s.w.t.)"

 

 

Try also "Search Truth", in short here is what I quickly found for No Places for Prayer: (baths and graveyards, inshort)

 

Bukhari : Book 8, #427, #428;  Book 23, #472;  Book 56, #660;  Book 59, #725, #727;  Book 72, #706

 

Sahih Muslim Chapter 47

 

Sunan AbuDawad & Maliki's Muwatta have a different expression.

 

Just type in "graves" or "grave" then search.

Edited by hasanhh
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The Masjid Al-Nabawi is a shrine in itself. Had the Ahlulbayt(as) opposed the idea of erecting structures over graves, then Imam Ali(as) and other members of the prophet's household who were the last people people to accompany the prophet(pbuh) before he passed away on his deathbed, would not have decided to bury him in his house. Instead, they would have buried him somewhere else in the outskirts of Medinah without erecting any structure over his grave.

 

(wasalam)

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(salam)

first of all, the hadith you narrated from Sahih Bukhari is INCORRECT, 

this is the hadith: 

 

Um Salama told Allah's Apostle about a church which she had seen in Ethiopia and which was
called Mariya. She told him about the pictures which she had seen in it. Allah's Apostle said, "If any
righteous pious man dies amongst them, they would build a place of worship at his grave and make
these pictures in it; they are the worst creatures in the sight of Allah." 
 
of course we as shias don't believe in this book completely because there is a mixture of right and wrong.
but in this case the prophet did complain about their activities because of those pictures. as you see in the narration Um Salama said there were some pictures and described them for the prophet but the description is not narrated for us thoroughly. therefore the prophet reject it.
it is not said those who build shrines are such and such.
 
secondly, why don't you destroy the shrine and the building of your two caliphs- Umar and Abu Bakr.
Is it haram just to build a shrine? if we bury our dead people inside a building, then aren't we supposed to destroy that building??????????????
why do we put those dead body inside a house, while we can conceal their dead bodies outside the house in a graveyard? their dead bodies are like other Muslims, and therefore; they have to be treated the same. :wacko:
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وعن علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن حماد بن عثمان، عن أبي عبد الله (عليه السلام) قال: إن أبي قال لي ذات يوم في مرضه: إذ أنا مت فغسلني وكفني، وارفع قبري أربع أصابع، ورشه بالماء، الحديث
And from Ali b. Ibrahim, from his father, from ibn Abi Umayr, from Hammad b. Uthman, from Abi Abdullah(as) said: My father(as) said to me on a day of his illness: "When I die bathe me and shroud me, and raise my grave by four fingers, and sprinkle it with water."

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(bismillah)

 

Is there any proof that the imams(as) told the people to build shrines over their graves when they died? 

 

It is a sign of respect and it doesn't need hadiths to be proved, plus , every thing is halal in Islam unless there is evidence that it is haram.

 

So it is better to ask " Is there any proof that building shrines over the graves of Imams as is not allowed? "  

 

والسلام علیکم

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That I believe were there at the time of the imams I think. Correct me if I am wrong.

Anyway it is meant to accommodate the the visitors of the Imam(as) and provide them a place to worship. If you are taking about the cage type thing with green glass. Then tags probably for security of the Blessed body of the imam(as).

Edited by Lordofgemini
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I am wondering about whether shrines were built during the time of the imams(as). I do not know if this is so. Could someone clear it up?

Yes they were. Here is a short article that discusses the history behind the shrine of Imam Hussain(as). I'm assuming you can read Arabic.

http://www.alshirazi.net/karbala/amaken/15.htm

I believe we also have historical evidence that Imam Al-Redha(as) used to do Ziyarah of the shrine of Imam Hussain(as) and never condemned building it over Imam Hussain's(as) grave.

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mostaffa- must be a difference in translation

 

Here is the original Arabic script which shows the translation from @mostaffa was correct!

 

حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى عَنْ هِشَامٍ قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِى أَبِى عَنْ عَائِشَةَ أَنَّ أُمَّ حَبِيبَةَ وَأُمَّ سَلَمَةَ ذَكَرَتَا كَنِيسَةً رَأَيْنَهَا بِالْحَبَشَةِ فِيهَا تَصَاوِيرُ ، فَذَكَرَتَا لِلنَّبِىِّ - صلى الله عليه وسلم - فَقَالَ « إِنَّ أُولَئِكَ إِذَا كَانَ فِيهِمُ الرَّجُلُ الصَّالِحُ فَمَاتَ بَنَوْا عَلَى قَبْرِهِ مَسْجِدًا ، وَصَوَّرُوا فِيهِ تِلْكَ الصُّوَرَ ، فَأُولَئِكَ شِرَارُ الْخَلْقِ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ »

 

 

Did you read my last post?

Yes!

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If you think about it the shrine over a grave can be seen as a way of protecting the grave... Encasing the grave with a shrine would help prevent the graves from being tampered with or even dug up by individuals that seek harm. Allah ( swt) knows best .

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(salam) dear brothers and sisters

 

If shrines are bid'ha or not allowed specifically for our awliya, find me a single hadith from our imams who spoke against this matter when the shrine of for example Imam Hussain A.S or Lady Masumah A.S was built. What about during Imam Mahdi's A.S time? He must have said something regarding this issue, he is an imam. But there is nothing said by him that was against it. Therefore, I think those who keep bringing hadiths like the ones that nima linked in the thread, are definitely misunderstanding and misinforming. This post will address some of their arguments against building shrines. Those hadiths do not specifically state you cannot build a shrine over an imam, therefore for the righteous of God can be an exception, not to mention those hadiths contradict the holy verse in the quran. We all understand, no one builds shrines on ordinary people. Another clear example is the Kabaa. Since the time of the imams, we have understand countless prophets being buried under there, and people pray towards the kabaa or on its ground. So does this not go against the hadiths? Is the whole kabaa area not a mosque? Again, did any imam speak against this?

 

Now about this building mosques over graves matter. Since shrines are literally mosques it applies.

 

[shakir 18:21] And thus did We make (men) to get knowledge of them that they might know that Allah's promise is true and that as for the hour there is no doubt about it. When they disputed among themselves about their affair and said: Erect an edifice over them-- their Lord best knows them. Those who prevailed in their affair said: We will certainly raise a masjid over them.

[Pickthal 18:21] And in like manner We disclosed them (to the people of the city) that they might know that the promise of Allah is true, and that, as for the Hour, there is no doubt concerning it. When (the people of the city) disputed of their case among themselves, they said: Build over them a building; their Lord knoweth best concerning them. Those who won their point said: We verily shall build a place of worship over them.

[Yusufali 18:21] Thus did We make their case known to the people, that they might know that the promise of Allah is true, and that there can be no doubt about the Hour of Judgment. Behold, they dispute among themselves as to their affair. (Some) said, "Construct a building over them": Their Lord knows best about them: those who prevailed over their affair said, "Let us surely build a place of worship over them."

 

 

 

Concerning the first part related to the verse 21 of the chapter of Al-Kahf; which the questioner referred to mistakenly as 33, the verse obviously declare that the believers insisted on building a mosque over the cemetery of the people in the cave, there was no objection or criticism of that in the Quran. If this act contradicts with the creed and principles of religion, the Quran would have rebuked them for doing it, and would refer to their deviancy from truth. Besides, this historical fact is related in the books of the Sunnis as well[1]; in some of these books and after the exegesis of the verse «We verily shall build a place of worship over them» there are traditions mentioned denote the fact of the prohibition of building mosques over graves[2]. Similarly, such traditions are related in the books of the Shia[3]

 

Al- Majlisi, a great Shia scholar, joined the verse and the related tradition as follows:

(May the Jews and the Christians be damned for making their prophet's graves places of worship), they used to direct their prayer towards these graves, as if they are idols. However, those who build mosques beside the grave of a righteous man or pray in a cemetery intending to gain a blessing from that and not for the purpose of glorifying the dead in the grave will not be wronged. Do you not realize that Ismail's grave is in the sacred sanctuary and the prayer performed in its spot is greatly rewarded?).[6]

 

http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa3870 (Same link provides sunni sources regarding building of shrines/mosques)

 

 

People have to understand, just because you have a shrine does not mean you worship it. Do we muslims worship Allah or the Kabaa? Why dont we destroy the kabaa? Because we understand he significance in Allah's command. It is the intention behind it. Just because we Shias have shrines/mosques around the grave of the imams or prophets, doesnt mean we pray to them or our direction of prayer is towards them, no! Now that would be clear cut shirk. Anyone who visits the shrines know the direction of prayer is always towards the kabaa. This way of thinking is flawed, for the whole world is a place of worship for us, and the fact is when you pray towards the direction of the kabaa, it is never of clear site. There are always shrines, temples, churches, idols, demi god pictures, dead people, towards that same direction of your prayer depending on where you live. Does that mean we are in fact worshiping those objects? Does that mean we commit shirk or God didnt know any better? Of course not.

 

(wasalam)

Edited by PureEthics
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