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Orion

I Am Wondering. Where Are The Anti-Taqlid Crowd

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I am wondering.

 

Where are the anti-Ijtehad, anti-Marja and anti-Taqlid crowd? Where are the Pseudo Akhbaris, the hubeali.com and akhbari.org leaders and their followers?

 

Why is it that only our Marja and scholars have stood up to defend the Holy Shrines, the Holy Lands and the innocent people who are under direct threat from the ISIS today. Why are they the only ones rallying able men to stand up and defend their country and the Holy Lands while everyone else remains silent.

 

Why cant they show unity and support the just cause?

 

WS

Edited by Orion

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The fact that people even needed a fatwa in order to rise up and defend the Holy Sites in Iraq is indicative of deeper problems.

 

People always look towards their leaders to give them a clear direction. Generally its the duty of the armed forces of the country to defend, but this time they need the support of the common people. Hence the fatwa.

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The fact that people even needed a fatwa in order to rise up and defend the Holy Sites in Iraq is indicative of deeper problems.

 

I don't think so. It displays a degree of discipline a rule of law. 

 

The last thing you need in this situation is for there to be a free-for-all, which is precisely what ISIS want.

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Salam,

How can you be soo sure that their not defending the country. There are pleanty of sunni shukaies that are with the iraqi army but the media doesnt show it much...

And believe it or not Ali_hussain, no one in the holy places wanted a fatwa to fight and defend our mukadasata. The people in karbala and najaf would come in full force to defend the holy places and people from other areas like bagdad and basrah would of been there..

People in other areas of iraq like basarah,karabala would never allow da3sh to get this far,why because no one would of opened their doors to them nor welcomed them...

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Because we believe only an Imam can declare jihad. And only an Imam can rule a government justly. There are many times where the imams said that calamities and terrible things will come upon the Shia during the Ghayba, and they told us to stay in our houses and not fight. We were told to be patient. There's a lot of proof for this from many, many hadiths, so don't make a fool of yourself in getting exposed. A true mo'min will accept the orders of the imams(as) and go by that instead of going by what makes sense to him.

Wassalam. 

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Because we believe only an Imam can declare jihad. And only an Imam can rule a government justly. There are many times where the imams said that calamities and terrible things will come upon the Shia during the Ghayba, and they told us to stay in our houses and not fight. We were told to be patient. There's a lot of proof for this from many, many hadiths, so don't make a fool of yourself in getting exposed. A true mo'min will accept the orders of the imams(as) and go by that instead of going by what makes sense to him.

Wassalam.

Ok then. Let's then just sit at home while the shrines of the ahlulbayt(as) get flattened by the Nawasib.

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Are you deliberately protesting against the words of the imams? Are you not confident with what they said?

During the ghayba, defensive jihad is allowed to be declared by a non-Ma'sum, while offensive jihad cannot be declared other than by a Ma'sum. If you say otherwise, then present you're evidence.

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Evidences for defensive jihad from Wasa'il al-Shi'a:

ﻭَ ﺑِﺎﻟْﺈِﺳْﻨَﺎﺩِ ﻋَﻦْ ﺟَﻌْﻔَﺮٍ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻴﻪِ ﻉ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﺇِﻥﱠﱠ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪَ ﻟَﻴَﻤْﻘُﺖُ ﺍﻟْﻌَﺒْﺪَ ﻳُﺪْﺧَﻞُ ﻋَﻠَﻴْﻪِ ﻓِﻲ ﺑَﻴْﺘِﻪِ ﻓَﻠَﺎ ﻳُﻘَﺎﺗِﻞُ

20112-ﻭَ ﻋَﻨْﻪُ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻲ ﺟَﻌْﻔَﺮٍ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻴﻪِ ﻋَﻦْ ﻭَﻫْﺐٍ ﻋَﻦْ ﺟَﻌْﻔَﺮٍ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻴﻪِ ﺃَﻧﱠﱠﻪُ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﺇِﺫَﺍ ﺩَﺧَﻞَ ﻋَﻠَﻴْﻚَ ﺭَﺟُﻞٌ ﻳُﺮِﻳﺪُ ﺃَﻫْﻠَﻚَ ﻭَ ﻣَﺎﻟَﻚَ ﻓَﺎﺑْﺪُﺭْﻩُ ﺑِﺎﻟﻀﱠﱠﺮْﺑَﺔِ ﺇِﻥِ ﺍﺳْﺘَﻄَﻌْﺖَ ﻓَﺈِﻥﱠﱠ ﺍﻟﻠﱢﱢﺺﱠﱠ ﻣُﺤَﺎﺭِﺏٌ ﻟِﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﻭَ ﻟِﺮَﺳُﻮﻟِﻪِ ﻓَﻤَﺎ ﺗَﺒِﻌَﻚَ ﻣِﻨْﻪُ ﺷَﻲْ ﺀٌ ﻓَﻬُﻮَ ﻋَﻠَﻲﱠﱠ

20114-ﻭَ ﺑِﺈِﺳْﻨَﺎﺩِﻩِ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺣْﻤَﺪَ ﺑْﻦِ ﺃَﺑِﻲ ﻋَﺒْﺪِ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﻋَﻦْ ﻋَﻠِﻲﱢﱢ ﺑْﻦِ ﻣُﺤَﻤﱠﱠﺪٍ ﻋَﻦْ ﺇِﺑْﺮَﺍﻫِﻴﻢَ ﺑْﻦِ ﻣُﺤَﻤﱠﱠﺪٍ ﺍﻟﺜﱠﱠﻘَﻔِﻲﱢﱢ ﻋَﻦْ ﻋَﻠِﻲﱢﱢ ﺑْﻦِ ﺍﻟْﻤُﻌَﻠﱠﱠﻰ ﻋَﻦْ ﺟَﻌْﻔَﺮِ ﺑْﻦِ ﻣُﺤَﻤﱠﱠﺪِ ﺑْﻦِ ﺍﻟﺼﱠﱠﺒﱠﱠﺎﺡِ ﻋَﻦْ ﻣُﺤَﻤﱠﱠﺪِ ﺑْﻦِ ﺯِﻳَﺎﺩٍ ﺻَﺎﺣِﺐِ ﺍﻟﺴﱠﱠﺎﺑِﺮِﻱﱢﱢ ﺍﻟْﺒَﺠَﻠِﻲﱢﱢ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻲ ﻋَﺒْﺪِ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﻉ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﺭَﺳُﻮﻝُ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﺹ ﻣَﻦْ ﻗُﺘِﻞَ ﺩُﻭﻥَ ﻋِﻴَﺎﻟِﻪِ ﻓَﻬُﻮَ ﺷَﻬِﻴﺪٌ

-ﻭَ ﺑِﺈِﺳْﻨَﺎﺩِﻩِ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺣْﻤَﺪَ ﺑْﻦِ ﻣُﺤَﻤﱠﱠﺪٍ ﺍﻟْﻜُﻮﻓِﻲﱢﱢ ﻋَﻦْ ﻣُﺤَﻤﱠﱠﺪِ ﺑْﻦِ ﺃَﺣْﻤَﺪَ ﺍﻟْﻘَﻠَﺎﻧِﺴِﻲﱢﱢ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺣْﻤَﺪَ ﺑْﻦِ ﺍﻟْﻔَﻀْﻞِ ﻋَﻦْ ﻋَﺒْﺪِ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﺑْﻦِ ﺟَﺒَﻠَﺔَ ﻋَﻦْ (ﻓَﺰَﺍﺭَﺓَ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﻧَﺲٍ ﺃَﻭْ ﻫَﻴْﺜَﻢِ ﺑْﻦِ ﺍﻟْﺒَﺮَﺍﺀِ) ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﻗُﻠْﺖُ ﻟِﺄَﺑِﻲ ﺟَﻌْﻔَﺮٍ ﻉ ﺍﻟﻠﱢﱢﺺﱡﱡ ﻳَﺪْﺧُﻞُ ﻋَﻠَﻲﱠﱠ ﻓِﻲ ﺑَﻴْﺘِﻲ ﻳُﺮِﻳﺪُ ﻧَﻔْﺴِﻲ ﻭَ ﻣَﺎﻟِﻲ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﺍﻗْﺘُﻠْﻪُ ﻓَﺄُﺷْﻬِﺪُ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪَ ﻭَ ﻣَﻦْ ﺳَﻤِﻊَ ﺃَﻥﱠﱠ ﺩَﻣَﻪُ ﻓِﻲ ﻋُﻨُﻘِﻲ

20118-ﻭ ﺑِﻬَﺬَﺍ ﺍﻟْﺈِﺳْﻨَﺎﺩِ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻲ ﻣَﺮْﻳَﻢَ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻲ ﺟَﻌْﻔَﺮٍ ﻉ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﺭَﺳُﻮﻝُ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﺹ ﻣَﻦْ ﻗُﺘِﻞَ ﺩُﻭﻥَ ﻣَﻈْﻠِﻤَﺘِﻪِ ﻓَﻬُﻮَ ﺷَﻬِﻴﺪٌ ﺛُﻢﱠﱠ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﻳَﺎ ﺃَﺑَﺎ ﻣَﺮْﻳَﻢَ ﻫَﻞْ ﺗَﺪْﺭِﻱ ﻣَﺎ ﺩُﻭﻥَ ﻣَﻈْﻠِﻤَﺘِﻪِ ﻗُﻠْﺖُ ﺟُﻌِﻠْﺖُ ﻓِﺪَﺍﻙَ ﺍﻟﺮﱠﱠﺟُﻞُ ﻳُﻘْﺘَﻞُ ﺩُﻭﻥَ ﺃَﻫْﻠِﻪِ ﻭَ ﺩُﻭﻥَ ﻣَﺎﻟِﻪِ ﻭَ ﺃَﺷْﺒَﺎﻩِ ﺫَﻟِﻚَ ﻓَﻘَﺎﻝَ ﻳَﺎ ﺃَﺑَﺎ ﻣَﺮْﻳَﻢَ ﺇِﻥﱠﱠ ﻣِﻦَ ﺍﻟْﻔِﻘْﻪِ ﻋِﺮْﻓَﺎﻥَ ﺍﻟْﺤَﻖﱢﱢ

20124-ﻭَ ﺑِﺄَﺳَﺎﻧِﻴﺪَ ﺗَﻘَﺪﱠﱠﻣَﺖْ ﻓِﻲ ﺇِﺳْﺒَﺎﻍِ ﺍﻟْﻮُﺿُﻮﺀِ ﻋَﻦْ ﺭَﺳُﻮﻝِ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﺹ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﻳُﺒْﻐِﺾُ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪُ ﺗَﺒَﺎﺭَﻙَ ﻭَ ﺗَﻌَﺎﻟَﻰ ﺭَﺟُﻠًﺎ ﻳُﺪْﺧَﻞُ ﻋَﻠَﻴْﻪِ ﻓِﻲ ﺑَﻴْﺘِﻪِ ﻓَﻠَﺎ ﻳُﻘَﺎﺗِﻞُ

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Anyone who thinks you need an order from the imam a.s to defend yourselves is beyond ignorant.

Actually, defending yourself is wajib. There are even hadiths that say that one who dies while defending himself from a thief dies a martyr. 

 

Evidences for defensive jihad from Wasa'il al-Shi'a:

ﻭَ ﺑِﺎﻟْﺈِﺳْﻨَﺎﺩِ ﻋَﻦْ ﺟَﻌْﻔَﺮٍ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻴﻪِ ﻉ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﺇِﻥﱠﱠ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪَ ﻟَﻴَﻤْﻘُﺖُ ﺍﻟْﻌَﺒْﺪَ ﻳُﺪْﺧَﻞُ ﻋَﻠَﻴْﻪِ ﻓِﻲ ﺑَﻴْﺘِﻪِ ﻓَﻠَﺎ ﻳُﻘَﺎﺗِﻞُ

20112-ﻭَ ﻋَﻨْﻪُ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻲ ﺟَﻌْﻔَﺮٍ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻴﻪِ ﻋَﻦْ ﻭَﻫْﺐٍ ﻋَﻦْ ﺟَﻌْﻔَﺮٍ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻴﻪِ ﺃَﻧﱠﱠﻪُ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﺇِﺫَﺍ ﺩَﺧَﻞَ ﻋَﻠَﻴْﻚَ ﺭَﺟُﻞٌ ﻳُﺮِﻳﺪُ ﺃَﻫْﻠَﻚَ ﻭَ ﻣَﺎﻟَﻚَ ﻓَﺎﺑْﺪُﺭْﻩُ ﺑِﺎﻟﻀﱠﱠﺮْﺑَﺔِ ﺇِﻥِ ﺍﺳْﺘَﻄَﻌْﺖَ ﻓَﺈِﻥﱠﱠ ﺍﻟﻠﱢﱢﺺﱠﱠ ﻣُﺤَﺎﺭِﺏٌ ﻟِﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﻭَ ﻟِﺮَﺳُﻮﻟِﻪِ ﻓَﻤَﺎ ﺗَﺒِﻌَﻚَ ﻣِﻨْﻪُ ﺷَﻲْ ﺀٌ ﻓَﻬُﻮَ ﻋَﻠَﻲﱠﱠ

20114-ﻭَ ﺑِﺈِﺳْﻨَﺎﺩِﻩِ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺣْﻤَﺪَ ﺑْﻦِ ﺃَﺑِﻲ ﻋَﺒْﺪِ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﻋَﻦْ ﻋَﻠِﻲﱢﱢ ﺑْﻦِ ﻣُﺤَﻤﱠﱠﺪٍ ﻋَﻦْ ﺇِﺑْﺮَﺍﻫِﻴﻢَ ﺑْﻦِ ﻣُﺤَﻤﱠﱠﺪٍ ﺍﻟﺜﱠﱠﻘَﻔِﻲﱢﱢ ﻋَﻦْ ﻋَﻠِﻲﱢﱢ ﺑْﻦِ ﺍﻟْﻤُﻌَﻠﱠﱠﻰ ﻋَﻦْ ﺟَﻌْﻔَﺮِ ﺑْﻦِ ﻣُﺤَﻤﱠﱠﺪِ ﺑْﻦِ ﺍﻟﺼﱠﱠﺒﱠﱠﺎﺡِ ﻋَﻦْ ﻣُﺤَﻤﱠﱠﺪِ ﺑْﻦِ ﺯِﻳَﺎﺩٍ ﺻَﺎﺣِﺐِ ﺍﻟﺴﱠﱠﺎﺑِﺮِﻱﱢﱢ ﺍﻟْﺒَﺠَﻠِﻲﱢﱢ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻲ ﻋَﺒْﺪِ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﻉ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﺭَﺳُﻮﻝُ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﺹ ﻣَﻦْ ﻗُﺘِﻞَ ﺩُﻭﻥَ ﻋِﻴَﺎﻟِﻪِ ﻓَﻬُﻮَ ﺷَﻬِﻴﺪٌ

-ﻭَ ﺑِﺈِﺳْﻨَﺎﺩِﻩِ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺣْﻤَﺪَ ﺑْﻦِ ﻣُﺤَﻤﱠﱠﺪٍ ﺍﻟْﻜُﻮﻓِﻲﱢﱢ ﻋَﻦْ ﻣُﺤَﻤﱠﱠﺪِ ﺑْﻦِ ﺃَﺣْﻤَﺪَ ﺍﻟْﻘَﻠَﺎﻧِﺴِﻲﱢﱢ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺣْﻤَﺪَ ﺑْﻦِ ﺍﻟْﻔَﻀْﻞِ ﻋَﻦْ ﻋَﺒْﺪِ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﺑْﻦِ ﺟَﺒَﻠَﺔَ ﻋَﻦْ (ﻓَﺰَﺍﺭَﺓَ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﻧَﺲٍ ﺃَﻭْ ﻫَﻴْﺜَﻢِ ﺑْﻦِ ﺍﻟْﺒَﺮَﺍﺀِ) ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﻗُﻠْﺖُ ﻟِﺄَﺑِﻲ ﺟَﻌْﻔَﺮٍ ﻉ ﺍﻟﻠﱢﱢﺺﱡﱡ ﻳَﺪْﺧُﻞُ ﻋَﻠَﻲﱠﱠ ﻓِﻲ ﺑَﻴْﺘِﻲ ﻳُﺮِﻳﺪُ ﻧَﻔْﺴِﻲ ﻭَ ﻣَﺎﻟِﻲ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﺍﻗْﺘُﻠْﻪُ ﻓَﺄُﺷْﻬِﺪُ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪَ ﻭَ ﻣَﻦْ ﺳَﻤِﻊَ ﺃَﻥﱠﱠ ﺩَﻣَﻪُ ﻓِﻲ ﻋُﻨُﻘِﻲ

20118-ﻭ ﺑِﻬَﺬَﺍ ﺍﻟْﺈِﺳْﻨَﺎﺩِ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻲ ﻣَﺮْﻳَﻢَ ﻋَﻦْ ﺃَﺑِﻲ ﺟَﻌْﻔَﺮٍ ﻉ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﺭَﺳُﻮﻝُ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﺹ ﻣَﻦْ ﻗُﺘِﻞَ ﺩُﻭﻥَ ﻣَﻈْﻠِﻤَﺘِﻪِ ﻓَﻬُﻮَ ﺷَﻬِﻴﺪٌ ﺛُﻢﱠﱠ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﻳَﺎ ﺃَﺑَﺎ ﻣَﺮْﻳَﻢَ ﻫَﻞْ ﺗَﺪْﺭِﻱ ﻣَﺎ ﺩُﻭﻥَ ﻣَﻈْﻠِﻤَﺘِﻪِ ﻗُﻠْﺖُ ﺟُﻌِﻠْﺖُ ﻓِﺪَﺍﻙَ ﺍﻟﺮﱠﱠﺟُﻞُ ﻳُﻘْﺘَﻞُ ﺩُﻭﻥَ ﺃَﻫْﻠِﻪِ ﻭَ ﺩُﻭﻥَ ﻣَﺎﻟِﻪِ ﻭَ ﺃَﺷْﺒَﺎﻩِ ﺫَﻟِﻚَ ﻓَﻘَﺎﻝَ ﻳَﺎ ﺃَﺑَﺎ ﻣَﺮْﻳَﻢَ ﺇِﻥﱠﱠ ﻣِﻦَ ﺍﻟْﻔِﻘْﻪِ ﻋِﺮْﻓَﺎﻥَ ﺍﻟْﺤَﻖﱢﱢ

20124-ﻭَ ﺑِﺄَﺳَﺎﻧِﻴﺪَ ﺗَﻘَﺪﱠﱠﻣَﺖْ ﻓِﻲ ﺇِﺳْﺒَﺎﻍِ ﺍﻟْﻮُﺿُﻮﺀِ ﻋَﻦْ ﺭَﺳُﻮﻝِ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪِ ﺹ ﻗَﺎﻝَ ﻳُﺒْﻐِﺾُ ﺍﻟﻠﱠﱠﻪُ ﺗَﺒَﺎﺭَﻙَ ﻭَ ﺗَﻌَﺎﻟَﻰ ﺭَﺟُﻠًﺎ ﻳُﺪْﺧَﻞُ ﻋَﻠَﻴْﻪِ ﻓِﻲ ﺑَﻴْﺘِﻪِ ﻓَﻠَﺎ ﻳُﻘَﺎﺗِﻞُ

All these hadiths are about a thief or murderer entering your house. Not about doing jihad with an army under a banner. 

Edited by robbenmessi1010

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Actually, defending yourself is wajib. There are even hadiths that say that one who dies while defending himself from a thief dies a martyr.

All these hadiths are about a thief or murderer entering your house. Not about doing jihad with an army under a banner.

Your country is your house.

What banner?

The banner of defending the holy Shrine of Sayyid al-Shuhada?

I'll definitely be under that banner, to be a sacrifice for the Holy Shrine Inashallah

You find your own banner

Edited by mesbah

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Call it a "jihad" or "not a jihad", you're just getting into semantics now, the point is people should defend their property and lives and neighborhood.

 

If it makes you feel better just call it "neighborhood watch" and you are defending the neighborhood and its landmarks from armed thugs.

 

Also some of the wahhabish hadith-only Shi'as are probably against these shrines themselves.

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Your country is your house.

Nice ijtihad. 

 

What banner?

The banner of defending the holy Shrine of Sayyid al-Shuhada

I'll definitely be under that banner, to be a sacrifice for the Holy Shrine Inashallah

You find your own banner

Abdul Wahid bin Abdullah narrated from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Rabah az-Zuhri from Muhammad bin al-Abbas bin Eessa al-Husayni from al-Hasan bin Ali bin Abu Hamza from his father from Malik bin A’yun al-Juhani that Imam Abu Ja'far al-Baqir (as) had said:

Every banner that is raised before the banner of al-Qa’im will be of an oppressive arrogant.

 

Also some of the wahhabish hadith-only Shi'as are probably against these shrines themselves.

That's why I just recently started a thread on the subject of shrines. I've never seen proof that the imams told us to build huge golden shrines over their graves, and I've only seen the opposite from the Quran and Hadiths. This making me somehow similar to Wahhabis on one topic isn't an argument against me. 

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