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Orion

I Am Wondering. Where Are The Anti-Taqlid Crowd

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One word: Qiyas. 

 

The imams themselves told us to accept their hadiths when we hear it. Did they tell us we must accept the bible? Quite the contrary...

Ok then, don't dissociate yourself from Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman anymore.

"Narrated Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya: I asked my father ('Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then 'Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person."[ Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 57, Number 20, Book: Fada'il Ashab al-Nabi; Page 771, #3671 (Arabic version) ]

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Ok then, don't dissociate yourself from Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman anymore.

"Narrated Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya: I asked my father ('Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then 'Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person."[ Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 57, Number 20, Book: Fada'il Ashab al-Nabi; Page 771, #3671 (Arabic version) ]

Isn't that a sunni book.or are you making an argument for ilm e rijaal

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Because we believe only an Imam can declare jihad. And only an Imam can rule a government justly. There are many times where the imams said that calamities and terrible things will come upon the Shia during the Ghayba, and they told us to stay in our houses and not fight. We were told to be patient. There's a lot of proof for this from many, many hadiths, so don't make a fool of yourself in getting exposed. A true mo'min will accept the orders of the imams(as) and go by that instead of going by what makes sense to him.

Wassalam. 

==========

All these hadiths are about a thief or murderer entering your house. Not about doing jihad with an army under a banner.

 

 

 

 

^^ Classic.

 

Let them attack the Shia, destroy the Holy Shrines, plunder their property, kill their men, take away children and women as slaves. Problem solved. :rolleyes:

 

This is what happens when you leave your Aql (brain) behind.

Edited by Orion

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I'm so unhappy that I see Sunnis who were convinced not to do jihad against their government, now has raised up to kill Shies.

on the contrary Shies who always seek to establish a Shiite government, to prevent injustice and apply Shria laws;  now under the influence of........ has changed completely saying "we have to stay silent and see what happens next." The Shiite community was always against cruel government. throughout history we don't find A marja'  saying to obey a cruel king and hesitate to see what happened next.

 

I don't want to letdown you but I'd like to say: "good job, the mission accomplished" to those who have changed this direction completely.

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What if I say, I heard from my father who from his so on until he heard from the imam.

Imam(as) said: Use Aql to check the authenticity and content of hadith, and with your Aql check to see if its from the Quran. And also you must do jihad against a Group named Isis. And other who try to attack your nation. Your livelyhood. Your family. And if you see injustice then do jihad with your hand, and The group named isis is doing injustice"

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Huh? Suddenly debating and discussing certain topics is now jihad? Being Akhbari means I have build a special banner for myself? Brother, you're embarrassing yourself. 

 

Weren't you a Shirazi just last week?

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Weren't you a Shirazi just last week?

No. What makes you think that? Is it because I stand up for Yasser Habib?

What if I say, I heard from my father who from his so on until he heard from the imam.

Imam(as) said: Use Aql to check the authenticity and content of hadith, and with your Aql check to see if its from the Quran. And also you must do jihad against a Group named Isis. And other who try to attack your nation. Your livelyhood. Your family. And if you see injustice then do jihad with your hand, and The group named isis is doing injustice"

LOL. 

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Messi. I have a scenario for you to help make the matter portrayed simpler for you. Let's assume Mecca Al-Mukaramah is attacked by the enemies of Islam(say an extremist Christian group) and after they successfully take control over it, decide to build a Cathedral in it's place.

In such scenario you have two options:

1) Go out to defend the house of Allah against the enemies of Islam so the Qibla for the Muslim Ummah does not fall.

2) Stay at home, mind you're own business, and continue to pray in the same direction of the Qibla, but now instead of praying towards the holy Ka'aba, you are praying towards a Cathedral and using it as you're intermediary to reach Allah(swt) in your salat.

Which option would you pick?

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^

#2. Do you realize how many times the Kaaba has been destroyed and rebuilt? Or do you legitimately think that the Kaaba we have now is the same one as Ibrahim built?

^ This really aches my heart

How about I change the scenario

People are attacking your house, will rape you women. And kill the men

a) will u sit by and watch?

b.) will you fight?

If b then u plan to fight for your house but not for the house of Allah(swt) or the imam(as) shows your double standards

Edited by Lordofgemini

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^

#2. Do you realize how many times the Kaaba has been destroyed and rebuilt? Or do you legitimately think that the Kaaba we have now is the same one as Ibrahim built?

The Kabaa was destroyed multiple times throughout history. However, most of the time, it was destroyed due to natural disasters, for example, floods or accidental fires, and hence, it was beyond the control of the people to defend it's structure from being destroyed.

 

That is not the same when you have the enemies of Islam sending an army to it and aiming to destroy it. In such case, it becomes obligatory for the Muslim to defend it, as he does have a possible chance of preventing it's destruction. 

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^ This really aches my heart

How about I change the scenario

People are attacking your house, will rape you women. And kill the men

a) will u sit by and watch?

b.) will you fight?

If b then u plan to fight for your house but not for the house of Allah(swt) or the imam(as) shows your double standards

Bolded part shows your problem. The life of one human being is worth more than all the structures in the world. B.

The Kabaa was destroyed multiple times throughout history. However, most of the time, it was destroyed due to natural disasters, for example, floods or accidental fires, and hence, it was beyond the control of the people to defend it's structure from being destroyed.

That is not the same when you have the enemies of Islam sending an army to it and aiming to destroy it. In such case, it becomes obligatory for the Muslim to defend it, as he does have a possible chance of preventing it's destruction.

Do you have any evidence, bro?

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Kaabah is not original and thus looses its historical/religious value. bravo.

and with this materialistic mindset we shall conclude that defending ourselves is unholy because imam did not appear on tv to give us orders.

I didn't say that. I said it could be rebuilt if necessary, just like it has been many many times. No human life is worth a building that can be rebuilt.

Self defense is different than defense of objects. I would do anything in my power to defend a human life. But I will not put human life at risk over a building that has been and can be again rebuilt. Sorry, but I value the best of Allah's creation.

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Can you read? If yes, then click on the link to the book I gave and read. Just a question for you, brother Orion: Can we take 'aql over hadiths?

 

Can you tell me regarding the hadith if they are:-

 

-right or wrong,

-true or false,

-repealing or repealed,

-general or particular.

-definite or indefinite

-exact or surmised

 

Is the narrator:-

-a lying hypocrite or not

-pious or a sinner

-attached to the rulers (of misguidance) receiving wealth from them or not

-after this world or not

-mistaken or not

-ignorant or knowledgeable

-able to memorize or not

-truthful or not

-could he understand the meaning, real intention and reason of a saying or not

------------------------------------

 

Someone asked Amir al-Mu'minin Imam Ali (as) about concocted hadith and contradictory sayings of the Prophet current among the people, whereupon he said:

"Certainly what is current among the people is both right and wrong, true and false, repealing and repealed, general and particular, definite and indefinite, exact and surmised.

 

Even during the Prophet's days false sayings had been attributed to him, so much so that he had to say during his sermon that, "Whoever attributes falsehoods to me makes his abode in Hell." Those who relate traditions are of four categories, no more.

First: The lying hypocrites

The hypocrite is a person who makes a show of faith and adopts the appearance of a Muslim; he does not hesitate in sinning nor does he keep aloof from vice; he wilfully attributes false things against the Messenger of Allah - may Allah bless him and his descendants. If people knew that he was a hypocrite and a liar, they would not accept anything from him and would not confirm what he says.

Rather they say that he is the companion of the Prophet, has met him, heard (his sayings) from him and acquired (knowledge) from him. They therefore accept what he says. Allah too had warned you well about the hypocrites and described them fully to you. They have continued after the Holy Prophet. They gained positions with the leaders of misguidance and callers towards Hell through falsehoods and slanderings. So, they put them in high posts and made them officers over the heads of the people, and amassed wealth through them. People are always with the rulers and after this world, except those to whom Allah affords protection. This is the first of the four categories.

Second: Those, who are mistaken

Then there is the individual who heard (a saying) from the Holy Prophet but did not memorise it as it was, but surmised it. He does not lie wilfully. Now, he carries the saying with him and relates it, acts upon it and claims that: "I heard it from the Messenger of Allah." If the Muslims come to know that he has committed a mistake in it, they will not accept it from him, and if he himself knows that he is on the wrong he will give it up.

Third: Those who are ignorant

The third man is he who heard the Prophet ordering to do a thing and later the Prophet refrained the people from doing it, but this man did not know it, or he heard the Prophet refraining people from a thing and later he allowed it, but this man did not know it. In this way he retained in his mind what had been repealed, and did not retain the repealing tradition. If he knew that it had been repealed he would reject it, or if the Muslims knew, when they heard it from him, that it had been repealed they would reject it.

Fourth: Those who memorise truthfully

The last, namely the fourth man, is he who does not speak a lie against Allah or against His Prophet. He hates falsehood out of fear for Allah and respect for the Messenger of Allah, and does not commit mistakes, but retains (in his mind) exactly what he heard (from the Prophet), and he relates it as he heard it without adding anything or omitting anything. He heard the repealing tradition, he retained it and acted upon it, and he heard the repealed tradition and rejected it. He also understands the particular and the general, and he knows the definite and indefinite, and gives everything its due position.

The sayings of the Prophet used to be of two types. One was particular and the other common. Sometimes a man would hear him but he would not know what Allah, the Glorified, meant by it or what the Messenger of Allah meant by it. In this way the listener carries it and memorises it without knowing its meaning and its real intention, or what was its reason. Among the companions of the Messenger of Allah all were not in the habit of putting him questions and ask him the meanings, indeed they always wished that some Bedouin or stranger might come and ask him (peace be upon him) so that they would also listen. Whenever any such thing came before me, I asked him about its meaning and preserved it.

 

Imam Ali (AS) said: These are the reasons and grounds of differences among the people in their traditions."

(Sermon 210, Nehjul Balagah)

Edited by Orion

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I didn't say that. I said it could be rebuilt if necessary, just like it has been many many times. No human life is worth a building that can be rebuilt.

Self defense is different than defense of objects. I would do anything in my power to defend a human life. But I will not put human life at risk over a building that has been and can be again rebuilt. Sorry, but I value the best of Allah's creation.

 

western godless humanism.

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