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In the Name of God بسم الله

2014 Iraq Conflict [Opinion & Analysis]

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  • Advanced Member

Read this from #129 and tell me what you see.

 

"Get your kafir [edited] out of these threads...."

 

And how did I 'attack' monotheistic religion? I profess one by the way, if you haven't noticed.

 

How come saying how things may turn out and how they have turned out under similar circumstances when states were carved on the basis of religion is 'attacking monotheistic religons'? Maybe you can elaborate.

Well, it was disrespectful, but not enough to call it takfir imo. Fair enough, you should both stop these small fights.

Edit: Sorry, the kafir thing I haven't read before. Don't know what it should even mean, kafir ***...

Edited by Muhammed Ali
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^The comment above. Ayatollah Sistani alone can mobilise a really large army with just one command, not to mention that a large number of the Iraqi army as well is Shia (we are the majority). As for Iran, I don't think they will be able to send any help, not unless it gets really, really bad and, even then, they may not. Let's not forget that the two countries have had some really bad times and, given how recent the Iran-Iraq war was, I don't think the Iraqi government would tolerate Iranian armed forces entering Iraq, for whatever reason.

 

this is not saddam time iraq.

 

2 brigades of Al-Quds force are already in iraq.Iraqi government have good relationship with iran and a iran is helping iraqi army officials to train their army.

We have to put aside these petty differences and work together. The shrines of several Imams (as) are at risk.

dont worry.The party of Allah protected shrines in Syria and they will do it in iraq too.

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  • Veteran Member

 

 

 

It is the fingers brother. Read about how Imam al Jawad (as) was killed.

 

 

I apologize. I thought it was one finger.

 

 

May Allah forgive me.

Lol....It's not what you stick to. Allah says in Quran 5:38 "[As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent from Allah . And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."

 

All Shias say it is 4 fingers, and backed by hadiths, and you are saying it's one finger. The question should be: Do you have proof? It's not what you like to stick to, akhi...

 

I'm sorry. I was mistaken. Jazzak'Allah khayr.

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even if he did so(which i am not sure of),that doesnt make it right.

Fact is, that both Sunnis and Shias seek help from the "Great Satan" when it's convenient for them. Both sides also claim resistance against the "Great Satan" when it's convenient for them. 

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People have too much expectations from Iran and what it is, My thought on this.

 

Too much expectations!? As our Shia counterpart, they should be supporting us like no other.

 

 

Iraqi army is a joke.

 

Exactly.

Edited by Haidar :)
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Fact is, that both Sunnis and Shias seek help from the "Great Satan" when it's convenient for them. Both sides also claim resistance against the "Great Satan" when it's convenient for them. 

 

hahahaha.burn in your own hatred.

 

Great satan is humiliated by iran for quite a while now.soon they will be humiliated by iraq and every freedom lover country.

But takfiris you support will always lick the feet of saudis and zionists.

Edited by AnaAmmar1
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hahahaha.burn in your own hatred.

 

Great satan is humiliated by iran for quite a while now.soon they will be humiliated by iraq and every freedom lover country.

But takfiris you support will always lick the feet of saudis and zionists.

Child.

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AnaAmmar1: @1700EDT, 13June, Deutsche Welle, said "two battalions" have entered Iraq and that the Iranian Air Force is ordered to attack any ISIS/ISIL targets "within 60 miles of the (Iranian) border".

 

Trigger Happy Obomb'em went to Montana for a "flag ceremony" and then on to somewhere else -California I think/guess the news said at Noon.

 

 

Wonder why Obomb'em drones women and children in Waziristan but about could careless -if it were not for the TV coverage- about Mosul, Baqil, Tikrit,...or really about Boko Haram kidnapping girls and car bombing markets...

 

 

:!!!:  I just now figured it out. If women and children are being killed, Obomb'em is happy. That's it. Gotta Be. O :shaytan: 'em  must be absolutely elated.

Edited by hasanhh
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Why the ISIS invasion of Iraq is really a war between Shiites and Sunnis for control of the Middle East.

460755645crop.jpg

"Be careful what you wish for" could have been, and perhaps should have been, Washington's advice to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states that have been supporting Sunni jihadists against Bashar al-Assad's regime in Damascus. The warning is even more appropriate today as the bloodthirsty fighters of the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) sweep through northwest Iraq, prompting hundreds of thousands of their Sunni coreligionists to flee and creating panic in Iraq's Shiite heartland around Baghdad, whose population senses, correctly, that it will be shown no mercy if the ISIS motorcades are not stopped.

Such a setback for Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has been the dream of Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah for years. He has regarded Maliki as little more than an Iranian stooge, refusing to send an ambassador to Baghdad and instead encouraging his fellow rulers of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) -- Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, and Oman -- to take a similar standoff-ish approach. Although vulnerable to al Qaeda-types at home, these countries (particularly Kuwait and Qatar) have often turned a blind eye to their citizens funding radical groups like Jabhat al-Nusra, one of the most active Islamist groups opposed to Assad in Syria. 

Currently on vacation in Morocco, King Abdullah has so far been silent on these developments. At 90-plus years old, he has shown no wish to join the Twitter generation, but the developments on the ground could well prompt him to cut short his stay and return home. He has no doubt realized that -- with his policy of delivering a strategic setback to Iran by orchestrating the overthrow of Assad in Damascus showing little sign of any imminent success -- events in Iraq offer a new opportunity.

This perspective may well confuse many observers. In recent weeks, there has been a flurry of reports of an emerging -- albeit reluctant --diplomatic rapprochement between the Saudi-led GCC and Iran, bolstered by the apparently drunken visit to Tehran by the emir of Kuwait, and visits by trade delegations and commerce ministers in one direction or the other. This is despite evidence supporting the contrary view, including Saudi Arabia's first public display of Chinese missilescapable of hitting Tehran and the UAE's announcement of the introduction of military conscription for the country's youth.

The merit, if such a word can be used, of the carnage in Iraq is that at least it offers clarity. There are tribal overlays and rival national identities at play, but the dominant tension is the religious difference between majority Sunni and minority Shiite Islam. This region-wide phenomenon is taken to extremes by the likes of ISIS, which also likely sees its action in Iraq as countering Maliki's support for Assad. 

ISIS is a ruthless killing machine, taking Sunni contempt for Shiites to its logical, and bloody, extreme.

ISIS is a ruthless killing machine, taking Sunni contempt for Shiites to its logical, and bloody, extreme. The Saudi monarch may be more careful to avoid direct religious insults than many other of his brethren, but contempt for Shiites no doubt underpinned his WikilLeaked comment about "cutting off the head of the snake," meaning the clerical regime in Tehran. (Prejudice is an equal-opportunity avocation in the Middle East: Iraqi government officials have been known to ask Iraqis whether they are Sunni or Shiite before deciding how to treat them.)

 

Despite the attempts of many, especially in Washington, to write him off, King Abdullah remains feisty, though helped occasionally by gasps of oxygen -- as when President Barack Obama met him in March and photos emerged of breathing tubes inserted in his nostrils. When Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed, the crown prince of Abu Dhabi -- and, after his elder brother's recent stroke, the effective ruler of the UAE -- visited King Abdullah on June 4, the Saudi monarch was shown gesticulating with both hands. The subject under discussion was not revealed, but since Zayed was on his way to Cairo it was probably the election success of Egypt's new president, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, considered a stabilizing force by Riyadh and Abu Dhabi. Of course, Sisi gets extra points for being anti-Muslim Brotherhood, a group whose Islamist credentials are at odds with the inherited privileges of Arab monarchies. For the moment, Abdullah, Zayed, and Sisi are the three main leaders of the Arab world. Indeed, the future path of the Arab countries could well depend on these men (and whomever succeeds King Abdullah).

For those confused by the divisions in the Arab world and who find the metric of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" to be of limited utility, it is important to note that the Sunni/Shiite divide coincides, at least approximately, with the division between the Arab and Persian worlds. In geopolitical terms, Iraq is at the nexus of these worlds -- majority Shiite but ethnically Arab. There is an additional and often confusing dimension, although one that's historically central to Saudi policy: A willingness to support radical Sunnis abroad while containing their activities at home. Hence Riyadh's arms-length support for Osama bin Laden when he was leading jihadists in Soviet-controlled Afghanistan, and tolerance for jihadists in Chechnya, Bosnia, and Syria.

When the revolt against Assad grew in 2011 -- and Riyadh's concern at Iran's nuclear program mounted -- Saudi intelligence reopened its playbook and started supporting the Sunni opposition, particularly its more radical elements, a strategy guided by its intelligence chief, former ambassador to Washington, Prince Bandar bin Sultan. The operation's leadership changed in April, when Bandar resigned in apparent frustration over dealing with the cautious approach of the Obama administration, but Saudi support for jihadi fighters appears to be continuing. (The ISIS operation in Iraq almost seems the sort of tactical surprise that Bandar could have dreamt up, but there is no actual evidence.)

In the fast-moving battle that is now consuming northern Iraq, there are many variables. For Washington, the option of inaction has to be balanced by the fate of the estimated 20,000 American civilians still left in the country (even though the U.S. military is long-departed). Qatar, the region's opportunist, is likely balancing its options of irritating its regional rival, Saudi Arabia, while trying not to poke the Iranian bear. There are no overt Qatari fingerprints yet visible and Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al-Thani, just celebrating his first full year in power after his father's abdication in 2013, may be chastened by the public scolding he received from the rest of the GCC after he was accused of interference in the domestic affairs of his brother rulers. Additionally, Doha may be cautious in risking Iran's ire by an adventure in Iraq. Having just given five Taliban leaders refuge as part of the Bowe Bergdahl swap, Qatar has effectively clearly stated where it lies in the Sunni-Shiite divide.

There is a potentially important historical precedent to Saudi Arabia's current dilemma of rooting for ISIS but not wanting its advances to threaten the kingdom. In the 1920s, the religious fanatic Ikhwan fighters who were helping Ibn Saud to conquer Arabia were also threatening the British protectorates of Iraq and Transjordan. Ibn Saud, the father of the current Saudi king, gave carte blanche to the British to massacre the Ikhwan with machine-gun equipped biplanes, personally leading his own forces to finish the job, when the Ikhwan threatened him at the battle of Sabilla in 1929.

It's hard to imagine such a neat ending to the chaos evolving in the Euphrates river valley. At this stage, a direct confrontation between Saudi and Iranian forces seems very unlikely, even though, as in Syria, the direct involvement of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps cannot be ruled out. What is clear that the Syrian civil war looks like it will be joined by an Iraqi civil war. ISIS already has a name for the territory, the al-Sham caliphate. Washington may need to find its own name for the new area, as well as a policy.

 

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Hmm.. that's not a proof.

 

I'll stick to the one finger, akhi.

 

From Sayyid Al khoei risalah:

 

2805. If a person who is adult and sane steals 3 3/5 grains of coined gold or anything of equivalent value, and he satisfies the conditions prescribed for it in law, four fingers of his right hand should be cut from their root on his first offence, and the palm of his hand and the thumb should be allowed to remain in tact. If he repeats the offence his left foot should be cut off from the middle and if he steals for the third time, he should be imprisoned for life and his expenses should be paid from the public treasury (Bait ul Maal) and in case he commits theft for the fourth time, whether in the prison or outside it, he should be killed.

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Robert Fisk's view:

 

Thus the new Middle Eastern map substantially increases Saudi power over the region’s oil, lowering Iraq’s exports, raising the cost of oil (including, of course, Saudi oil) and at the expense of a frightened and still sanctioned Iran, which must defend its co-religionists in the collapsing Baghdad government. Mosul’s oil is now Sunni oil. And the vast and unexplored reserves believed to lie beneath the jihadi-held deserts west of Baghdad are now also firmly in Sunni rather than in national, Shia-controlled Baghdad government hands.

 

 

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Interesting:'

 

Sheikh Ali al-Korani about the events in Mosul and the signs of al-Hujjah min Ahle Muhammad (aj)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=481506425312568&set=vb.243073865822493&type=2&theater

As salam alaikum.. Is it possible to get a summarized translation of what he is saying? JazakAllah

Edited by IFK
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The problem is really not whether we should or should not put our differences aside - it's obvious we should - but whether the Iraqi government and Maliki will. I mean, whether you consider Iran and angel or a devil, either way, they'd be more than happy to help - to save the shrines, if the former, and to get a presence in, and better relations with, Iraq, if the latter - but will Maliki let them in? Even then, Iran is already a heavily sanctioned country and would they want to divert resources here? I mean, it's easy to say stuff but, when the time comes, people, the masses, really lose it. What if normal Iranians start coming out on the streets and protest against sending money from a country that is already in problems, economically speaking, to solve others' problems? Anyone familiar with Westerners protesting against the influx of immigrants?

 

Also, to those who are saying that Iran has sent troops, an article I've just read on CNN, which was published at 5:28 EDT, says that while an Iraqi official has claimed so, the spokesperson for the Iranian Foreign Ministry has rejected such a claim. Either way, while the news about initiating air strikes if they get a specific distance near the border may be true - they do have to consider their own safety - 500 soldiers, either way, don't make much of a difference in a war being fought by thousands.

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  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)
(salam)

Not sure if others were expecting this, but what I am reading at a couple of websites is very disturbing: ISIS also control helicopters. And that they will probably use and other artillery in their attack at Baghdad.

(wasalam)

Edited by Mikael
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As salam alaikum.. Is it possible to get a summarized translation of what he is saying? JazakAllah

 

Brother, the most important part is when he says that there's no connection between daaish & Mosul in our narrations (regarding the farjah of our Imam etc. )

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  • Veteran Member

So when I expose you for your hate against deen you slander me by implying I support the ISIS khawarij, apparently you haven't been keeping track of my posts on this topic lately. Face it, you're just awful with words.

 

And if youre a true kafir, that's not for me to decide. But my crude attack was a reminder to you on what you're outwardly expressing.

 

Despite my gentle reminders about the vile slander, you have stepped up takfir on me, and not only this, you have repeated it thrice in this post of yours.

 

Since when does warning about followers turning on each other in a state carved for xyz religion/sect become equal to 'hate against the deen?'

 

And the way you dole out fatwas of kufr every time someone contradicts your mythical religious utopia....this way of intolerance is the way of the Takfiris of the ISIS and of the world.

 

Which side are you on, my friend? Take your pick.

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Iran Deploys Forces to Fight al Qaeda-Inspired Militants in Iraq

 

 

Farnaz Fassihi — Wall Street Journal June 12, 2014

 

Iran has deployed Revolutionary Guard forces to fight al Qaeda-inspired militants that have overrun a string of Iraqi cities, and it has helped Iraqi troops win back control of most of Tikrit, Iranian security sources said.

 

Two battalions of the Quds Forces, the elite overseas branch of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps that have long operated in Iraq, have come to the aid of the besieged, Shiite-dominated government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, they said.

 

Combined Iraqi-Iranian forces had retaken control across 85% of Tikrit, the birthplace of former dictator Saddam Hussein, according to Iraqi and Iranian security sources.

 

They were helping guard the capital Baghdad and the two cities of Najaf and Karbala, which have been targeted by the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, an al Qaeda offshoot whose lightning offensive has thrown Iraq into its worse turmoil since the sectarian fighting that followed the 2003 U.S. invasion of the country.

 

Tehran has also positioned troops along its border with Iraq and promised to bomb rebel forces if they close within 100 kilometers, or 62 miles, from Iran’s border, according to an Iranian army general.

 

In addition, it was considering the transfer to Iraq of Iranian troops in Syria, if the initial deployments fail to turn the tide of battle in favor of Mr. Maliki’s government.

 

The Iraqi government has asked the U.S. to carry out airstrikes and to speed up the delivery of promised weapons, which raises the prospect of both the U.S. and Iran lending support to Mr. Maliki against ISIS insurgents, who are seeking to create a caliphate encompassing Iraqi and Syrian territory.

 

General Qasim Sulaimani, the commander of the Quds Forces and one of the region’s most powerful military figures, traveled to Baghdad this week to help manage the swelling crisis, said a member of the Revolutionary Guards, or IRGC.

 

Qassimm al-Araji, and Iraqi Shiite lawmaker who heads the Badr Brigade block in the country’s parliament, posted a picture of him and Mr. Sulaimani holding hands in a room in Baghdad on his social-networking site with the caption, “Haj Qasem is here,” reported Iranian news sites affiliated with the IRGC on Wednesday. “Haj Qasem” is Mr. Sulaimani’s nom de guerre.

 

At stake for Iran in the current tumult in Iraq isn’t only the survival of an Shiite political ally in Baghdad, but the safety of Karbala and Najaf, which along with Mecca and Medina are considered sacred to Shiites world-wide.

 

An ISIS spokesman, Abu Mohamad al-Adnani, urged the group’s Sunni fighters to march toward the “filfth -ridden” Karbala and “the city of polytheism” Najaf, where they would “settle their differences” with Mr. Maliki.

 

That coarsely worded threat further vindicates Iran’s view that the fight unfolding in Iraq is an existential sectarian battle between the two rivaling sects of Islam-Sunni and Shiite—and by default a proxy battle between their patrons Saudi Arabia and Iran.

 

Iran’s Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Marzieh Afgham said Wednesday that, “Until now we haven’t received any requests for help from Iraq. Iraq’s army is certainly capable in handling this.”

 

Despite those assuring comments, measures by the Iranian government in the past day indicated that an air of crisis had enveloped Tehran. Iran’s army and border guards have been placed under full alert along the country’s long border with Iraq, the Iranian media reported.

 

Iran’s President Rouhani cut short a religious celebration on Thursday and said he had to attend an emergency meeting of the country’s National Security Council about events in Iraq.

 

“We, as the Islamic Republic of Iran, will not tolerate this violence and terrorism…. We will fight and battle violence and extremism and terrorism in the region and the world,” he said in a speech.

 

Iran’s chief of police, Esmail Ahmadi-Moghaddam said the National Security Council would consider intervening in Iraq to “protect Shiite shrines and cities.”

 

ISIS’s rapid territorial gains in the past few days appeared to have caught Iranian officials by surprise and opened a debate within the regime over whether Iran should publicly enter the battle, citing the country’s strategic interest and ideological responsibility. Iranian officials also privately expressed concern about whether Mr. Maliki was capable of handling the turmoil.

 

“The more insecure and isolated Maliki becomes, the more he will need Iran. The growth of ISIS presents a serious threat to Iran. So it would not be surprising to see the Guards become more involved in Iraq,” said Alireza Nader, a senior policy analyst at the Rand Corp.

 

Quds Forces have been active in Iraq since shortly after the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 and have helped create, train and fund Shiite militias that fought U.S. military forces. Their reach and influence extends from Iraq to Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinian territories.

 

General Qasim Sulaimani, the commander of the Quds Forces and one of the region’s most powerful military figures, traveled to Baghdad this week to help manage the swelling crisis, said a member of the Revolutionary Guards, or IRGC.

 

Qassimm al-Araji, and Iraqi Shiite lawmaker who heads the Badr Brigade block in the country’s parliament, posted a picture of him and Mr. Sulaimani holding hands in a room in Baghdad on his social-networking site with the caption, “Haj Qasem is here,” reported Iranian news sites affiliated with the IRGC on Wednesday. “Haj Qasem” is Mr. Sulaimani’s nom de guerre.

 

The two IRGC battalions moved to Iraq on Wednesday were shifted from the Iranian border provinces of Urumieh and Lorestan. Their task is to help secure the holy Shiite cities of Karbala and Najaf and tighten security around Baghdad, according to IRGC members in Iran.

 

Revolutionary Guards units that serve in Iran’s border provinces are the most experienced fighters in guerrilla warfare because of separatist ethnic uprisings in those regions. IRGC commanders dispatched to Syria also often hail from those provinces.

 


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  • Advanced Member

The recent report by Wall Street Journal war mongers is apparently not true (see Iran's official response below).  There is bound to be quite a bit of misinformation by western media sources regarding the recent events in Iraq and people ought to weight different sources and reports before making judgement.

 

The Iranian position is that there is a sectarian ploy to drag Iran into these events and inflame Sunni sentiment and therefore swell the takfiri ranks even further. The Iranian view is that the Iraqi army should be reasonably capable of confronting ISIL.

 

On that basis Iranian forces are apparently not (yet) involved and as per official statements this would only be necessary should the Iraqi government request assistance or should red-lines be crossed. The latter being a reference to the hypothetical scenario that the takfiri worms somehow manage to wiggle their way to the southern regions housing the holy shrines. Incidentally - and I may have digressed - this is also when the narrations themselves describe the Iranians will actually make an appearance. This is not all to say that Iran may not currently be assisting in the capacity of a strategic advisor though.

 

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13930323000768

Edited by MajiC
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  • Advanced Member

There is no need for the Americans to go to Iraq and nobody asked them to come... asking for support is something different, since the Iraqi and the US govs have normal and somehow friendly relations... receiving advanced weapons and techs is one kind of support they seek.

 

As much as your buddies (Baahists + Takfiris) hate Maliki, as much they fall for his traps... mark my word, this is going to turn very ugly/bloody for the Takfiris, anti-gov. tribesmen, AND THE Baathists of Iraq.....AND THE Takfiris of Syria... it is like more than a golden chance for the Shias and pro-government Sunni tribes who were bombed on daily basis without having a target to hit in retaliation... now it is time to make some BBQ and feed them to the dogs.

 

 

 

Why do you have to always be so graphic, Noah-? Maliki actually asked for airstrikes, that is definitely support.

Edited by Abu_Muslim
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