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In the Name of God بسم الله

Abu Bakr In Cave With Prophet Muhammad S.a.w

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Akhī, I mean this with all humility and respect, and I am mentioning it purely for this discussion, but Abu Bakr was one of those who ran from several battles, so it doesn't seem fitting to give him a 'brave' character. However, if you can provide conclusive evidence, then I may reconsider.

wassalām

...and exactly how many battles have you fought in or even considered to fight in???oh wait you must be one of those computer warriors who likes to criticize others while sitting comfortably at home

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...and exactly how many battles have you fought in or even considered to fight in???oh wait you must be one of those computer warriors who likes to criticize others while sitting comfortably at home

 

This is purely for discussion, as I pointed out, not to insult anyone brother.

If that is supposed to be an insult you are throwing at me, do try harder. 

 

wassalām

Edited by Haidar :)
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This is purely for discussion, as I pointed out, not to insult anyone brother.

If that is supposed to be an insult you are throwing at me, do try harder.

wassalām

It's not meant to be an insult...but I find it ironic how somebody who has never even entered a battle field can question the actions of somebody who at least entered the battlefield

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Akhī, I mean this with all humility and respect, and I am mentioning it purely for this discussion, but Abu Bakr was one of those who ran from several battles, so it doesn't seem fitting to give him a 'brave' character. However, if you can provide conclusive evidence, then I may reconsider.

 

wassalām

 

 

So Abu Bakr [ra] ran away from several battles and Rasulullah [saw] still chose to not dissociate himself from Abu Bakr [ra]?  That can only be due to two reasons.  One, Rasulullah [saw] forgave him every time.  And two, Abu Bakr [ra] never ran away and somebody lied to you.  The first option does less damage to your argument so if you choose to go with it, then the question you have to answer is why cannot you forgive Abu Bakr [ra] like Rasulullah [saw]. 

 

I personally think you have been lied to.

 

But I have raised the matter of double-standards, almost not coming through on your own words, many times here at ShiaChat.

 

Claim: we curse Muawiyah [ra] because he cursed Imam Ali [ra] and our Imams [ra] made it permissible to curse him (and others like him).

Rebuttal: so you follow the sunnah of Muawiyah [ra]?  The Imams [ra] made that which was originated by Muawiyah [ra] permissible for you.

 

Claim: the Sahabas [ra] did not name their children after Ahlul Bayt [ra].  However, Imam Ali [ra] had children named after some other Uthman and Abu Bakr.  The latter is a kunya anyways, not name.

Rebuttal: well since you do not follow the Sahabas [ra], do what Ahlul Bayt [ra] did.  Name your children Uthman after whoever Imam Ali [ra] named his son and let us have some Shia Abu Bakrs (since its a kunya anyways).

 

Claim: the Sahabas [ra] ran away from the battlefields many times.  However, Imam Ali [ra] gave the best advice to Umar [ra] when he wanted to lead the army against the Persians by asking him to stay behind (since he was the Caliph).

Rebuttal: so when it fits your mood, Umar [ra] and other Sahabas [ra] were those who deserted the battlefields.  And when you want to show the merits of Imam Ali [ra], all of a sudden, staying behind is better than presenting yourself on the battlefield.

 

Make up your mind, ya akhi!

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"Does it look like I officially represent him?"

NO.......IT LOOKS LIKE HE OFFICIALLY REPRESENTS YOU.

:-)

....and since you seem to think he's irrefutable why don't you tell him to man up and come for a debate instead of hiding in his little hole

Funnily, he challenged all scholars to come and debate him. And you can contact his channel and set up a debate.

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Even if he was a believer doesn't mean he died as one. Being a believer is hardly impressive nor extraordinary, dying as one is. 

What he did during the prophets period is of no importance, what people acted like and what they did after he passed away is more interesting. 

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Even if he was a believer doesn't mean he died as one. Being a believer is hardly impressive nor extraordinary, dying as one is. 

What he did during the prophets period is of no importance, what people acted like and what they did after he passed away is more interesting.

Likewise for the companions of 'Isa and Musa, peace be upon them. They were believers during their lifetime but disbelievers when they died, and this is due to them deviating from and innovating to the teachings of their prophets.

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I don't understand Arabic and the only words I understood were lanatullah and bakri (as per usual) but will be getting in touch with his office. If you could kindly translate

Basically, he challenged all those in the video, and said he would pay their trip to London and would stream the debates live on his channel.

However, if 2 or more people are debating against him at the same time, (lets say they both get 10 mins each), he will get 20 mins. If it is 1 on 1, they will get the same time.

Edited by DaBeast313
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Shaykh mufids argument is beautiful. MashAllah. I think it is sufficient.

"Allah adds further quality of being the Prophet's "SAHIB", the Companion;"-sheikh mufid

Quran 18:37

"His companion said to him while he was conversing with him, "Have you disbelieved in He who created you from dust and then from a sperm-drop and then proportioned you [as] a man?"

As the Quran says clearly, companion can be attributed to a kaffir. Mufid's argument is extremely weak

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"Allah adds further quality of being the Prophet's "SAHIB", the Companion;"-sheikh mufid

Quran 18:37

"His companion said to him while he was conversing with him, "Have you disbelieved in He who created you from dust and then from a sperm-drop and then proportioned you [as] a man?"

As the Quran says clearly, companion can be attributed to a kaffir. Mufid's argument is extremely weak

(Salam) brother

Can you please elaborate, you post completely went over my head.

Thank you.

(Wasalam)

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(Salam) brother

Can you please elaborate, you post completely went over my head.

Thank you.

(Wasalam)

Walaykym as salam

You stated sheikh mufid had a beautiful explanation. I quoted him saying that Allah says companion in the Quran to refer to Abu Bakr

I then quoted an exact verse from the Quran in which a disbeliever is referred to as a companion as well.

Meaning companion doesn't mean righteous, so sheikh Mufid's argument was not beautiful. But in fact incorrect

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Wait I think we aren't on the same page here.

I mean shaykh Mufids Argument proving that that verse doesnt prove anything special about Abu bakr was beautiful.

Please read Shaykhs Argument again carefully. He himself quoted that exact same verse.

Edited by Lordofgemini
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Wait I think we aren't on the same page here.

I mean shaykh Mufids Argument proving that that verse doesnt prove anything special about Abu bakr was beautiful.

Please read Shaykhs Argument again carefully. He himself quoted that exact same verse.

My mistake , I skipped over the part where he said he was talking to Umar in his dream, and I mistakenly attributed that quote to sheikh mufid when it was Umar who said that.

I agree it is a beautiful account and Umar got exposed by somebody more knowledgeable once again

Shaykh mufids argument is beautiful. MashAllah. I think it is sufficient.

I agree

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Could you show me when this occurred (his challenge)

 

 

I am sure he wants to do a TV debate.  It is like when Allahyari (on his own show) called some learned Sunni man.  The latter kept asking Allahyari to do a live, in person, debate with him.  He even offered to pay for Allahyari's hotel, airfare and stay expenses.  Yet Allahyari kept insisting on a TV debate (while he controlled the phone lines).

 

Allahyari made the mistake of calling brother Khobaib Sadat on his (Sadat's) show and he was humiliated.  I do not think Yassir is so naive to repeat Allahyari's mistake.

 

Allahyari even criticized Qadhwini for debating Sunnis on Al-Mustakillah stating that he (Qadhwini) does not know Arabic.  Makes you wonder why he did not show up himself if he is such a champion of Arabic and upon haqq.

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I am sure he wants to do a TV debate.  It is like when Allahyari (on his own show) called some learned Sunni man.  The latter kept asking Allahyari to do a live, in person, debate with him.  He even offered to pay for Allahyari's hotel, airfare and stay expenses.  Yet Allahyari kept insisting on a TV debate (while he controlled the phone lines).

 

Allahyari made the mistake of calling brother Khobaib Sadat on his (Sadat's) show and he was humiliated.  I do not think Yassir is so naive to repeat Allahyari's mistake.

 

Allahyari even criticized Qadhwini for debating Sunnis on Al-Mustakillah stating that he (Qadhwini) does not know Arabic.  Makes you wonder why he did not show up himself if he is such a champion of Arabic and upon haqq.

No offense to you but a lot of the posts on this thread of yours have been off topic and I'm assuming you are Sunni

What response do you have to the fact that in the cave only Prophet Muhammad S.A.W received His tranquility, as well as the fact the Quran states in verses that both Rasool Allah received His tranquility as well as the believers. But Abu Bakr was left out.

There is only one logical conclusion that can be deduced from this based off the Quran

But what is the conclusion that you have reached?

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My mistake , I skipped over the part where he said he was talking to Umar in his dream, and I mistakenly attributed that quote to sheikh mufid when it was Umar who said that.

I agree it is a beautiful account and Umar got exposed by somebody more knowledgeable once again

I agree

Haha phew :)

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I am sure he wants to do a TV debate. It is like when Allahyari (on his own show) called some learned Sunni man. The latter kept asking Allahyari to do a live, in person, debate with him. He even offered to pay for Allahyari's hotel, airfare and stay expenses. Yet Allahyari kept insisting on a TV debate (while he controlled the phone lines).

Allahyari made the mistake of calling brother Khobaib Sadat on his (Sadat's) show and he was humiliated. I do not think Yassir is so naive to repeat Allahyari's mistake.

Allahyari even criticized Qadhwini for debating Sunnis on Al-Mustakillah stating that he (Qadhwini) does not know Arabic. Makes you wonder why he did not show up himself if he is such a champion of Arabic and upon haqq.

Well tbh yasser habibs IQ won't be much more than 40 so stupidity runs through his veins hence he will go through with his "challenge" only to come out of the other side humiliated lol

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Where's the sunni brothers or sisters at to offer there view of these findings within the Quran that have dire implications

Summed up once again in case there's confusion :

1. First verse mentions only Prophet Muhammad receiving His tranquility in the cave, while Abu Bakr was expressing fear and grieving from the threat of disbelievers

2. Second verse in the OP states that Prophet Muhammad S.A.W and the believers receive His tranquility.

So Allah does mention the instances that when Rasool Allah gets His tranquility than the believers do as well

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I am not convinced, but it is pretty interesting.

 

Quran 9:40 
"If you do not aid the Prophet - Allah has already aided him when those who disbelieved had driven him out [of Makkah] as one of two, when they were in the cave and he said to his companion, "Do not grieve; indeed Allah is with us." And Allah sent down his tranquillity upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah - that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."

Why does Allah not say " they" and give His tranquility to Abu Bakr as well ?

Quran 9:26 
"Then Allah sent down His tranquillity upon His Messenger and upon the believers and sent down soldiers angels whom you did not see and punished those who disbelieved. And that is the recompense of the disbelievers."

 

 

1. Abu Bakr was the one who was frightened, for whatever reason. Yet, Allah swt does not say 'and we sent tranquility on them'. Muhammed pbuh was not the one frightened, yet Allah swt did not send his tranquility on Abu-Bakr, who was the one in need, but only sent it to Muhammed pbuh. The Quran also used the word 'US' to mean plural. Protecting Muhammed pbuh meant protecting Abu-Bakr, because if Abu Bakr got caught, so would Muhammed pbuh.

Edited by Logical Islamic
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Wait I think we aren't on the same page here.

I mean shaykh Mufids Argument proving that that verse doesnt prove anything special about Abu bakr was beautiful.

Please read Shaykhs Argument again carefully. He himself quoted that exact same verse.

 

(salam)

 

Mufid's argument is a desperate attempt to twist the verse of the Quran. 

 

Here is an analysis of Mufid's arguments by a SHIA brother:

 

http://islamic-forum . net/index.php?showtopic=21079

 

Also, did you watch the videos I posted in the first page, watch them and tell me if you still think there is nothing special about Abubakr. 

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(salam)

 

Mufid's argument is a desperate attempt to twist the verse of the Quran. 

 

Here is an analysis of Mufid's arguments by a SHIA brother:

 

http://islamic-forum . net/index.php?showtopic=21079

 

Also, did you watch the videos I posted in the first page, watch them and tell me if you still think there is nothing special about Abubakr.

The first video was meaningless and was a guys assumptions

in the second video, the first verse the guy uses to prove Abu Bakr being a believer is the verse that this topic is about lmao obviously you didn't watch the video

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(salam)

Mufid's argument is a desperate attempt to twist the verse of the Quran.

Here is an analysis of Mufid's arguments by a SHIA brother:

http://islamic-forum . net/index.php?showtopic=21079

Also, did you watch the videos I posted in the first page, watch them and tell me if you still think there is nothing special about Abubakr.

It is very sad to see that ↑ forum is banned by my internet service provider here In Pakistan. What's the reason?

As for twisting part, I believe his argument is as legitimate as it gets.

As for Abu bakr being special i can't see how. YouTube is banned here as well in Pakistan. And I don't want to use a proxy.

So dear brother

Mufid's argument is a desperate attempt to twist the verse of the Quran.

Care to say something which isn't baseless.

Edited by Lordofgemini
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  • 1 month later...

watever its clear abu bkr wasnt the believer he was fearing and didnt get any tranquilty, and abu bkr was the biggest liar, prophet sas predicted that abu bkr actions could be satanic after him, he said he donot know what abu bkr will do after him and he wont testify for him in malik muawata sunni sahah sittah book

 

after prophet sas's death abu bkr said what all prophets left is charity then he wiith 2 liar caliphs kept prophet sas's ring being beggars as charity

 

sahih bukhari

 

SubhanAllah!

Edited by BrockLesnar
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The Quran clearly says that Abu bakr grieved and this is a sign of disobedience. This alone shows Ali  (as) superiority over the shaikhain.

Ali  (as) was all alone sleeping in the bed of Rasulallah  (pbuh) and did not even tremble in fear when the kuffar came and wanted to attack him.

On the other hand, Abu bakr was with the holy prophet  (pbuh) and still he was afraid and was grieved that he maybe killed. This shows that Abu bakr did not have faith in Rasulallah and Allah(SWT). I mean, who would be scared when you stand next to Rasulallah (pbuh) knowing that Allah (SWT) will never let anything happen to his prophet. 

See the difference, Imam Ali  (as) showed his bravery by sleeping in Rasulallah's bed and being ready to face the enemies, but Abu bakr was grieved even when he was with Rasulallah and knowing that protection is there.

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The Quran clearly says that Abu bakr grieved and this is a sign of disobedience. This alone shows Ali  (as) superiority over the shaikhain.

Ali  (as) was all alone sleeping in the bed of Rasulallah  (pbuh) and did not even tremble in fear when the kuffar came and wanted to attack him.

On the other hand, Abu bakr was with the holy prophet  (pbuh) and still he was afraid and was grieved that he maybe killed. This shows that Abu bakr did not have faith in Rasulallah and Allah(SWT). I mean, who would be scared when you stand next to Rasulallah (pbuh) knowing that Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì will never let anything happen to his prophet. 

See the difference, Imam Ali  (as) showed his bravery by sleeping in Rasulallah's bed and being ready to face the enemies, but Abu bakr was grieved even when he was with Rasulallah and knowing that protection is there.

 

 

If Imam Ali [ra] had accompanied the Prophet [saw] while Abu Bakr [ra] would have been asked to sleep in the bed of Rasulullah [saw], knowing your mentality, you would have said, "see, the Prophet [saw] took Imam Ali [ra] with him to show how much he loved Imam Ali [ra] and he left Abu Bakr [ra] behind to be killed".

 

But reality tells us that the Prophet [saw] chose Abu Bakr [ra] as his companion and travel companion too.  There is an Arabic saying which says "choose your companions, thereafter your road (way)".

 

The Prophet [saw] chose Abu Bakr [ra] as his companion in life and in his journey.  The Qur'an, too, attests to this.  You just cannot digest it because you are jelly (jealous)....peanut butter JELLY!

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If Imam Ali [ra] had accompanied the Prophet [saw] while Abu Bakr [ra] would have been asked to sleep in the bed of Rasulullah [saw], knowing your mentality, you would have said, "see, the Prophet [saw] took Imam Ali [ra] with him to show how much he loved Imam Ali [ra] and he left Abu Bakr [ra] behind to be killed".

 

But reality tells us that the Prophet [saw] chose Abu Bakr [ra] as his companion and travel companion too.  There is an Arabic saying which says "choose your companions, thereafter your road (way)".

 

The Prophet [saw] chose Abu Bakr [ra] as his companion in life and in his journey.  The Qur'an, too, attests to this.  You just cannot digest it because you are jelly (jealous)....peanut butter JELLY!

Oh, come on.

When I have an Imam like Ali bin abi Talib (as), I do not need to be jealous of anything. I proved that Ali is a man of bravery while Abu bakr is a man who grieved even when he was with prophet  (pbuh).

Is this the only virtue you can give to me for Abu bakr? Just because the Quran mentions that he was in the cave with Rasulallah, it doesn't mean the Quran praised him. 

So, use your brain. A man who is willing to sell his life for the religion of Islam and accepting martyrdom by sleeping in the bed of Rasulallah (pbuh), is better or someone who is in the safety of Allah(SWT) with being alongside the messenger of Allah (pbuh), but still has fear in his heart?

Edited by The Light
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If Imam Ali [ra] had accompanied the Prophet [saw] while Abu Bakr [ra] would have been asked to sleep in the bed of Rasulullah [saw], knowing your mentality, you would have said, "see, the Prophet [saw] took Imam Ali [ra] with him to show how much he loved Imam Ali [ra] and he left Abu Bakr [ra] behind to be killed".

 

But reality tells us that the Prophet [saw] chose Abu Bakr [ra] as his companion and travel companion too.  There is an Arabic saying which says "choose your companions, thereafter your road (way)".

 

The Prophet [saw] chose Abu Bakr [ra] as his companion in life and in his journey.  The Qur'an, too, attests to this.  You just cannot digest it because you are jelly (jealous)....peanut butter JELLY!

 

You are forgetting one vital thing. You think that Imam Ali [a] was left before just to be in the bed? What about the three Fatimas, including the Prophet's daughter, that were left behind? Who protected them? Imam Ali [a]. If Abu Bakr was left behind and was killed, the three Fatimas would most surely have been oppressed.

 

Another thing, Prophet Muhammad also entrusted Ali [a] with the jewelry and money that people left with Muhammad for safekeeping since he was most trust-worthy in Mecca. Ali [a] was to return all the goods, even to the enemies of Islam.

 

Ali [a] had a 3 duties to do: allow Muhammad to escape safely by sleeping in the bed, protecting the three Fatimas, and returning the goods.

 

What was the duty of Abu Bakr? What was he entrusted to do?

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(bismillah)


(salam)


 محمد، عن أحمد، عن ابن فضال. عن الرضا عليه السلام " فأنزل الله سكينته على رسوله وأيده بجنود لم تروها " قلت: هكذا؟ قال: هكذا نقرؤها وهكذا تنزيلها


Muhammad, from Ahmad, from ibn Fadhal, from al-Rida(a.s): "So Allah sent Allah sent down his tranquillity upon his messenger and supported him with angels you did not see(9:40)". I said: "Like this?" He(a.s) said: "This is how we read it and this is how it was revealed". 


- Rawdat al-Kafi (Vol.8) p. 378 h.571

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Today's Shias make a big deal about "isma" and yet they imagine the Prophet (S) was wrong to have titled Abu Bakr (ra) as Sideeq.

(wasalam)

 

We don't believe that Rasulallah (pbuh) gave that title to Abu bakr. Surely, without a doubt the messenger of Allah knew better who was sideeq. Abu bakr or Ali (as)

Edited by The Light
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n2.jpg

 

 

sunni hadith sahah sittah nisai shareef imam e ali a.s is sidiqe akber and brother of prophet sas, the other who claim this title except imam e ali a.s, is a liar abu bkr ibn abi kuhafa was not sidique e akbar he was a liar....stop lieing sunniS!

Edited by BrockLesnar
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