Do The Imams Know Everything?!

[robbenmessi1010]

ويقول الشيخ المفيد في كتابه «أوائل المقالات» (ص38):

«فأما إطلاق القول عليهم بأنهم يعلمون الغيب فهو منكر بيِّنُ الفساد

Shaikh Mufid wrote in his book Awailul Maqalat (page 38): "As for saying that the Imams know ghayb, so it is an extremely evil and corrupt belief."

 

 

 

ويقول الشيخ الطوسي أيضاً في كتابه المذكور: «ولم نوجب أن يكون [الإمام] عالماً بما لا تعلُّق له بالأحكام الشرعية

Shaikh Tusi wrote in his book Talkhis al Shafi (Volume 1 page 252): "It is not wajib for the Imam to have any knowledge of things which are not directly related to Islamic laws". 

 

 

الشيخ رشيد الدين محمد بن شهرآشوب المازندراني المتوفى عام 586هـ  يقول في كتابه «متشابه القرآن ومختلفه» (طبع طهران، ج1/ص211) ما نصُّهُ:
«النبيّ والإمام يجب أن يعلما علوم الدين والشريعة ولا يجب أن يعلما الغيب وما كان وما يكون، لأنّ ذلك يؤدّي إلى أنّهما مشاركان للقديم تعالى

Ibn Shahr Ashoob (586 AH) wrote in his book Mutashabih al Qur'an (Volume 1 page 211): "The Prophet and the Imam must have full knowledge of the Islamic laws,but it is not incumbent upon them to have knowledge of ghaib, after all that would then mean that they are partners of Allah".
 

 

 

صاحب تفسير «مجمع البيان» يقول في تفسيره لقوله تعالى: ﴿وَلِـلَّهِ غَيْبُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ﴾ [هود/123] ما نصُّهُ:وَلا نعلم أحداً منهم استجاز الوصف بعلم الغيب لأحد من الخلق فإنما يستحق الوصف بذلك من يعلم جميع المعلومات لا بعلم مستفاد وَهذه صفة القديم سبحانه العالم لذاته لا يشركه فيها أحد من المخلوقين وَمن اعتقد أن غير الله سبحانه يشركه في هذه الصفة فهو خارج عن ملّة الإسلام. فأمّا ما نقل عن أمير المؤمنين (عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ) وَرواه عنه الخاص وَالعام من الإخبار بالغائبات في خطب الملاحم وغيرها..... فإن جميع ذلك مُتَلَقَّى عن النبيِّ صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم مما أطلعه الله عليه فلا معنى لنسبة من روي عنهم هذه الأخبار المشهورة إلى أنه يعتقد كونهم عالمين للغيب

Shaikh Tabrisi wrote in Majma al Bayan, for the commentary of this verse (Surah al Hud Vrse 123) "And for Allah is the knowledge of ghaib of the skies and the earth": "We do not know of any Shia scholar who permits attributing the knowledge of ghaib to any of the makhlooq (creatures) for the only one who is worthy of being characterised by such an attribute is the one who possesses all knowledge without acquisition. And this is true only for Allah whose knowledge is eternal and He knows everything by Himself (without acquiring it from any source). None is a partner of Him in this attribute and whoever believes that anyone other than Allah knows ghaib then he is outside the fold of Islam. Now as for what has been narrated by the Shias and non Shias among the ahadith of Imam Ali where he mentions some events which would take place in the future, so all that knowledge is what he inherited from the Prophet who in turn was informed by Allah (about some limited future events). So those ahadith do not at all mean that the Imams have knowledge of ghaib.

 

Hadiths:

 

ما رواه الكشي في (رجاله) في الحديث الصحيح عن ابن المغيرة قال كنت عند أبي الحسن (ع) أنا و يحيى بن عبد الله بن الحسن (ع) فقال يحيى جعلت فداك إنهم يزعمون أنك تعلم الغيب؟ فقال: سبحان الله سبحان الله ضع يدك على رأسي فو الله ما بقيت في جسدي شعرة و لا في رأسي إلا قامت قال ثم قال: لا و الله ما هي إلا وراثة عن رسول الله (ص

 
1) Shaikh Kashi reported (in his Rijal Kashi) in a sahih (authentic) hadith from ibn al Mughirah that he said: I was with abi al Hasan (as) along with Yahya b. Abdullah b. al Hasan, so Yahya said: "May we be your ransom, indeed they believe that you know ghaib (unseen)?" So Imam (as) said: "Glory be to Allah! Glory be to Allah! Place your hand on my head, for by Allah there does not remain a hair on my body or head but that it is standing up*." Imam (as) then continued: "No! By Allah (swt) it is not but inheritance from the Prophet (pbuh).*"

 

ما رواه الكشي في الصحيح عن ابن أبي عمير، عن شعيب، عن أبي بصير، قال قلت لأبي عبد الله (ع) إنهم يقولون! قال: و ما يقولون قلت يقولون تعلم قطر المطر و عدد النجوم و ورق الشجر و وزن ما في البحر و عدد التراب، فرفع يده إلى السماء، و قال: سبحان الله سبحان الله لا و الله ما يعلم هذا إلا الله.

2) Shaikh Kashi reported in a sahih hadith from ibn abi Umair, from Shu'aib, from abi Baseer, who said: I said to abi Abdullah (as): "Indeed they claim!" Imam (as) asked: "And what do they claim?" I said: "They claim that you know (number of) drops of the rain, number of stars and leaves of trees, weight of what is in the seas and number of (particles of) sand." So Imam (as) raised his hand towards the sky and said: "Subhanallah! Subhanallah! No one knows all this except for Allah (swt)."

 

3) What came among the signed letters of Imam Mahdi (as) in refutation of the ghulat, which he had written in reply to what Muhammad b. Ali. b. Hilal al Karkhi wrote to him.

يا محمد بن علي تعالى الله وجل عما يصفون، سبحانه وبحمده، ليس نحن شركاؤه في علمه ولا في قدرته، بل لا يعلم الغيب غيره، كما قال في محكم كتابه تباركت أسماؤه: (قل لا يعلم من في السماوات والأرض الغيب إلا الله

وأنا وجميع آبائي من الأولين: آدم ونوح وإبراهيم وموسى، وغيرهم من النبيين، ومن الآخرين محمد رسول الله، وعلي بن أبي طالب، وغيرهم ممن مضى من الأئمة صلوات الله عليهم أجمعين، إلى مبلغ أيامي ومنتهى عصري، عبيد الله عز وجل يقول الله عز وجل: (من أعرض عن ذكري فإن له معيشة ضنكا ونحشره يوم القيامة أعمى * قال رب لم حشرتني أعمى وقد كنت بصيرا * قال كذلك أتتك آياتنا فنسيتها وكذلك اليوم تنسى) يا محمد بن علي قد آذانا جهلاء الشيعة وحمقاؤهم، ومن دينه جناح البعوضة أرجح منه.
فأشهد الله الذي لا إله إلا هو وكفى به شهيدا، ورسوله محمد صلى الله عليه وآله، وملائكته وأنبياءه، وأولياءه عليهم السلام.
وأشهدك، وأشهد كل من سمع كتابي هذا، أني برئ إلى الله وإلى رسوله ممن يقول: إنا نعلم الغيب، ونشاركه في ملكه، أو يحلنا محلا سوى المحل الذي رضيه الله لنا وخلقنا له، أو يتعدى بنا عما قد فسرته لك وبينته في صدر كتابي.
وأشهدكم: أن كل من نبرأ منه فإن الله يبرأ منه وملائكته ورسله وأولياءه وجعلت هذا التوقيع الذي في هذا الكتاب أمانة في عنقك وعنق من سمعه أن لا يكتمه لأحد من موالي وشيعتي حتى يظهر على هذا التوقيع الكل من الموالي لعل الله عز وجل يتلافاهم فيرجعون إلى دين الله الحق، وينتهون عما لا يعلمون منتهى أمره، ولا يبلغ منتهاه، فكل من فهم كتابي ولا يرجع إلى ما قد أمرته ونهيته، فقد حلت عليه اللعنة من الله وممن ذكرت من عباده الصالحين

O Muhammad b. Ali! Allah (swt) is far above and exalted of what they describe, He is glorified and worthy of praise. We are not His partners in His knowledge or His authority. In fact, no one has the knowledge of the unseen (ghaib) other than Him, as He, blessed are His names, said in His clearly established book (al Qur'an 27:65)[say: "None in the heavens and the earth knows the Ghaib (unseen) except Allah].

And me and all my forefathers; from the earlier generation of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and others among the prophets, as well as the later generation of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Ali (as) and others before the Imams (as) to the end of my days and end of my era, were slaves of Allah (swt). Allah (swt) says (al Qur'an 20: 124-126):["But whosoever turns away from My Reminder verily, for him is a life of hardship, and We shall raise him up blind on the Day of Resurrection." He will say:"O my Lord! Why have you raised me up blind, while I had sight (before)." (Allah) will say: "Like this, Our signs came unto you, but you disregarded them, and so this Day, you will be neglected."]

O Muhammad b. Ali! The uneducated people and the idiots among the shias, and (people like) the one whose religion is outweighed by a bug's wing, have hurt us.

So I make Allah (swt), the one apart from whom there is no one worthy of worship, a witness and it is a sufficient testimony, and (I make witness) Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), His angels, His prophets and His beloved people. Peace be upon them all. And I make you a witness and all those who hear this message, I declare my dissociation to Allah (swt) and His messenger (pbuh) from anyone who says that we know ghaib, share His kingdom or attributes to us a position other than the one chosen by Allah (swt) for us and which we were created for, or transgresses with regards to us in what has been explained to you and laid out in the heart of this message.

And I make you all witness that whoever we dissociate from, then indeed Allah (swt), His angels, His messengers and His beloved people also dissociate from him. And I declare this message which is in this letter a trust (responsibility/duty) on your neck and the neck of everyone who hears it, to not conceal it from anyone among my lovers and shias so that this message is revealed to all the mawalis (lovers of ahlulbayt). Perhaps Allah (swt) will avert them so that they return to the true religion of Allah (swt) and will stop from that about which they do not know its ending (result) nor will they reach it.

So anyone who comprehends this message but does not conform to what it has ordered and forbidden, then upon him is damnation of Allah and those pious people that have been mentioned.

 

 

 

So, what do you think? Doesn't this say something about the Shias today?  Subhanallah...

[Al-Hassan]

Only Allah(swt) possess the absolute and full knowledge, and no one from his creations has this knowledge in it's full and absolute form like he does, including the prophet(pbuh) and the Imams(as).

However, he can still disclose some of that knowledge with his closest servants and hide from them other types of knowledge as clearly and explicitly mentioned in this noble Aya, but they still do not know everything like he does:

[He is] Knower of the unseen, and He does not disclose His [knowledge of the] unseen to anyone. Except whom He has approved of messengers, and indeed, He sends before each messenger and behind him observers [ Surat Al-Jinn-26]

[Sumerian]

They know Ilm ul-Kitaab.

[Al-Hassan]

So, what do you think? Doesn't this say something about the Shias today?  Subhanallah...

What do you mean? Since when has any Shi'i said that the prophet and imams know everything or possess absolute and full knowledge of the unseen like Allah does?

[robbenmessi1010]

What do you mean? Since when has any Shi'i said that the prophet and imams know everything or possess absolute and full knowledge of the unseen like Allah does?

I've heard many Shias say this that they know everything. Many of the modern-day Shia ulama also believe that the imams(as) have control of every atom of the universe. 

They know Ilm ul-Kitaab.

Yes, they do. 

Edited June 7, 2014 by robbenmessi1010

[Al-Hassan]

I've heard many Shias say this that they know everything. Many of the modern-day Shia ulama also believe that the imams(as) have control of every atom of the universe.

They do not know everything, but as I mentioned in my earlier post, Allah can give them some of his knowledge if he wills.

Can you quote the scholars that say they know everything?

WS

[iraqi_shia]

I've heard many Shias say this that they know everything. Many of the modern-day Shia ulama also believe that the imams(as) have control of every atom of the universe. 

Yes, they do. 

 

 

I have never heard any shia say, the Imams AS know everything about everything. Where do you live??

[robbenmessi1010]

I have never heard any shia say, the Imams AS know everything about everything. Where do you live??

Didn't Syed Khomeini say in one of his books that the imams(as) had control of every atom in the universe? I don't have their quotes with me right now, but I'll add it to the thread if I ever find them.

[iraqi_shia]

I think he was implying the Imams AS are in charge rather than direct control. Also control does not imply absolute knowledge. 

 

For example man are in charge of the house, parents in charge of kids etc

[Logical Islamic]

I bear witness that the Imams a.s were slaves of Allah swt. Had children, were physically intimate with their wives, got sick, ate, had the same biological functions as us but bathed. I bear witness they did not have knowledge of the unseen completely, and whatever drops of knowledge in this regard was granted to them. I do bear witnesss they had knowledge of the book and were blessed with wisdom.

 

But none but Allah swt has complete knowledge of the unseen!

 

Even the Quran tells Muhammed pbuh, there are hippocrites among you, YOU DO NOT KNOW THEM, but we know them!

 

May God guide the ghuluw's among us and cleanse them.

[aqeelfair4u]

Allah is only Alim ul ghaib..

 

The Prophets,angels and Imams are students in field of knowledge of unseen.

 

And every atom is in control means that It is due to Imam Zamana a.s from which every atom receives its rizq from Allah

[iCambrian]

This topic is troublesome.  I keep seeing it come up again and again and again.

 

Some shia do speak as if the Imams have ultimate knowledge of everything.  To the extent that they could even control reality.

 

Some also say that they were infallible.  They could not make physical mistakes.

 

Though, to not make mistakes, they would need...infinite knowledge. Or divine knowledge.  What would it take an every day person to go through life as an infallible? It would take a divine knowledge. 

 

And yet, how could an Imam be killed if he had knowledge of the killer that awaited him?

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So people try to create these obscure descriptions.  The Imams do not sin, but they do make mistakes.  Well, to "sin" is so broad and vague that this just doesnt make sense.

 

Some say, oh well...Allah gives some knowledge but not All knowledge.  But again, it is so vague, its as if they just make an answer up to satisfy the premise.  The statement isnt actually grounded in any real evidence.

----------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I believe the Imams were human and had normal knowledge just as we did.  They could make mistakes, they could sin, and almost undoubtably did both at some point in time within their lives (just like everyone else).  They taught people about the ways of the Prophet Muhammad.  Thats all.

 

Later, generations later, people attempted to exalt them, to justify the hadith and teachings they had provided (nobody will follow someone they believe is flawed, so they must make the Imams borderline divine to justify their ideas).

 

This is exactly what christians have done with Jesus.  Its the same thing.  People want to follow Jesus, but nobody wants to follow someone who can make mistakes, so they raise him on a pedestool and start calling him God.  Not because he is God, but because they want to justify the teachings that they follow.

 

The same thing goes for Imam Mahdi and Jesus as well.

 

Jesus cannot pass away.  He is too great to pass away. So christians came up with the story that he isnt actually dead. He didnt actually die at all, contrary to the believe that he was cruxified. How someone physically raises from the dead after being cruxified is something that nobody could ever know, or have evidence for.  But to christians, it happened.  It must have. Because if it didnt, christianity would be no more.

 

A paralell can be drawn to Imam Mahdi.  He cannot die. What would it mean if he did?  So instead of a human being passing away (as all do), he dissappeared.

 

And nobody has evidence for anything.  So we all sit here, and we discuss how these things are possible.  All baseless ideas without any knowledge or evidence.  Only ancient literature, often written by God knows who. Interpretted in a million ways. And without any real evidentially clear truth.

---------------------------------------------------------

 

And with that, I learn from the teachings of the Imams, but I do not assume they were borderline divine.

[Ethics]

Did the Imams (the Ahlul-Bayt) have knowledge of the unseen?

Brief Answer:

 

According to Quranic teachings, complete knowledge of the unseen only belongs to Allah, and it is Him that knows everything about this world. Some of Allah’s special servants are informed of secrets and knowledge and other impalpable things, they see the unseen and hear what cannot be heard through Allah’s teaching and training and based on the spiritual capability and capacity that they express from themselves. This is a gift that Allah grants to the chosen ones, like the prophets and His apostles.  This is why we find that the prophets would speak of revelation (which is an issue related to the unseen) or other issues related to the unseen and foretold the events of the future and these events would take place in exactly the form they had explained. Moreover, knowing that after the prophet, the imams are responsible of guiding man in all physical and spiritual fields, it is necessary for them to know about many issues related to the unseen. Therefore, on certain occasions where it is necessary for them to know about the unseen and they ask for it, Allah grants them the required knowledge.

 

Imam Sadiq says in this regard: “When an imam wills to know something, Allah will teach him.” [5]

 

(wasalam)

[Ethics]

This topic is troublesome.  I keep seeing it come up again and again and again.

 

Some shia do speak as if the Imams have ultimate knowledge of everything.  To the extent that they could even control reality.

 

Some also say that they were infallible.  They could not make physical mistakes.

 

Though, to not make mistakes, they would need...infinite knowledge. Or divine knowledge.  What would it take an every day person to go through life as an infallible? It would take a divine knowledge. 

 

And yet, how could an Imam be killed if he had knowledge of the killer that awaited him?

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So people try to create these obscure descriptions.  The Imams do not sin, but they do make mistakes.  Well, to "sin" is so broad and vague that this just doesnt make sense.

 

Some say, oh well...Allah gives some knowledge but not All knowledge.  But again, it is so vague, its as if they just make an answer up to satisfy the premise.  The statement isnt actually grounded in any real evidence.

----------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I believe the Imams were human and had normal knowledge just as we did.  They could make mistakes, they could sin, and almost undoubtably did both at some point in time within their lives (just like everyone else).  They taught people about the ways of the Prophet Muhammad.  Thats all.

 

Later, generations later, people attempted to exalt them, to justify the hadith and teachings they had provided (nobody will follow someone they believe is flawed, so they must make the Imams borderline divine to justify their ideas).

 

This is exactly what christians have done with Jesus.  Its the same thing.  People want to follow Jesus, but nobody wants to follow someone who can make mistakes, so they raise him on a pedestool and start calling him God.  Not because he is God, but because they want to justify the teachings that they follow.

 

The same thing goes for Imam Mahdi and Jesus as well.

 

Jesus cannot pass away.  He is too great to pass away. So christians came up with the story that he isnt actually dead. He didnt actually die at all, contrary to the believe that he was cruxified. How someone physically raises from the dead after being cruxified is something that nobody could ever know, or have evidence for.  But to christians, it happened.  It must have. Because if it didnt, christianity would be no more.

 

A paralell can be drawn to Imam Mahdi.  He cannot die. What would it mean if he did?  So instead of a human being passing away (as all do), he dissappeared.

 

And nobody has evidence for anything.  So we all sit here, and we discuss how these things are possible.  All baseless ideas without any knowledge or evidence.  Only ancient literature, often written by God knows who. Interpretted in a million ways. And without any real evidentially clear truth.

---------------------------------------------------------

 

And with that, I learn from the teachings of the Imams, but I do not assume they were borderline divine.

 

(salam) brother. I really am not in the mood to debate you on this subject simply because I have done so quite too many times. Also because it is off topic. If you really want to deeply discuss this matter open up another thread and I might respond. However I will address some of your points:

 

red - unproven false assumptions

 

blue - your false opinion

 

Your speaking as if you believe in God yet at the same time you dont. Then you claim there is no evidence, yet we Muslims abide by our "faith", by following Quran and Hadiths. That is clear evidence for us. We dont need physical or empirical evidence. God is above science, He is the creator. All representatives of God are Perfect, Infallible, Error Free, by their OWN limited free will. Rationally, if they were not, Islam would be imperfect, guidance would be weak, there would be no point of following a religion where even God's representatives are prone to err. The system of God becomes questionable.

 

 

(wasalam)

Edited June 7, 2014 by PureEthics

[IQRA07]

Only Allah(swt) possess the absolute and full knowledge, and no one from his creations has this knowledge in it's full and absolute form like he does, including the prophet(pbuh) and the Imams(as).

However, he can still disclose some of that knowledge with his closest servants and hide from them other types of knowledge as clearly and explicitly mentioned in this noble Aya, but they still do not know everything like he does:

[He is] Knower of the unseen, and He does not disclose His [knowledge of the] unseen to anyone. Except whom He has approved of messengers, and indeed, He sends before each messenger and behind him observers [ Surat Al-Jinn-26]

EXACTLY !!!

So Allah has only revealed to his Messengers (pbut). There are observers but the knowledge has not been revealed to them. Imam doesn't mean observer anyway. The idea that Imams know the unseen is ridiculous and unIslamic. Glad you posted that

(salam) brother. I really am not in the mood to debate you on this subject simply because I have done so quite too many times. Also because it is off topic. If you really want to deeply discuss this matter open up another thread and I might respond. However I will address some of your points:

 

red - unproven false assumptions

 

blue - your false opinion

 

Your speaking as if you believe in God yet at the same time you dont. Then you claim there is no evidence, yet we Muslims abide by our "faith", by following Quran and Hadiths. That is clear evidence for us. We dont need physical or empirical evidence. God is above science, He is the creator. All representatives of God are Perfect, Infallible, Error Free, by their OWN limited free will. Rationally, if they were not, Islam would be imperfect, guidance would be weak, there would be no point of following a religion where even God's representatives are prone to err. The system of God becomes questionable.

 

 

(wasalam)

So it is your contention that none of the Prophets (pbut) made mistakes ? This goes for the Imams (as) as well ?

So I'm guessing that your definition of Isma is that they do not sin or err ?

Interesting..........

[Ali-F]

As said, our Imams know what Allah (swt) reveals to them.

 

When this is said, our Imams and the Prophet (saaw), does not know, for instance, when the Day of Judgement is. 

[iCambrian]

 

Your speaking as if you believe in God yet at the same time you dont.

 

As if you would know...

 

Im quite tired of the attitude many muslims have in regards to who believes and who doesnt.  It is commonly known that nobody is to question the belief of another if they claim to believe in Allah and the Prophet Muhammad, and yet everyone does it.  As if they cannot fathom other interpretations of Islam.

 

It is only in Islam that you find this problem.

 

Me: "All baseless ideas without any knowledge or evidence"

 

You: "We dont need physical or empirical evidence. God is above science,"

 

Yup...

Edited June 7, 2014 by iCambrian

[Ethics]

As if you would know...

 

Im quite tired of the attitude many muslims have in regards to who believes and who doesnt.  It is commonly known that nobody is to question the belief of another if they claim to believe in Allah and the Prophet Muhammad, and yet everyone does it.  As if they cannot fathom other interpretations of Islam.

 

It is only in Islam that you find this problem.

 

Brother I think your post is unfair towards me. I did not claim what I think your faith is, I simply stated how I took your post. You could simply be real with me. I did not call you a kaffir. There is nothing wrong with questioning ones beliefs. Its when you condemn people, that crosses the line. Exactly, no one can fathom other interpretations because everyone is on their own path to the truth, but at the same time, anyone understands that there can only be one path. That is why, we are always questioning ourselves and others. Please do not take it the wrong way and try and find an excuse to "insult" Islam.

 

(wasalam)

[robbenmessi1010]

iCambrian....I can not even describe in words how much I disagree with your post. I'm not trying to prove that they aren't infallible. I'm only showing people that they(as) were humans also, and did not know everything. This is not questioning their infallibility(which does have an explanation elsewhere), because they were sinless people. Questioning infallibility takes you out of the fold of Tashayyu'. But this doesn't mean that they didn't make physical mistakes, or forgetting things. In fact, they did use to forget certain things, according to some hadiths which I don't have with me at the moment. And yes, Imam Mahdi is alive, and you denying it really is sad. 

[iCambrian]

\ And yes, Imam Mahdi is alive, and you denying it really is sad. 

 

Imam Mahdi certainly is not living in a physical sense.  If by chance he were, none of us would have anything more than conjecture to conclude that.

 

If you believe these things in a more spiritual or mystical sense, that is fine, but again it would be conjecture.

 

I do not think I stated what was truth either way. I only stated the fact that people raise the Imams to levels with divine traits. People have no choice but to do this. Again, it is the same reason why this idea of Jesus as God has risen.  And many christians will take this belief to the grave with them, with all the conjecture they can possibly muster from obscure literature dating back thousands of years. Muslims, Not all, but some, do the same.

Brother I think your post is unfair towards me. I did not claim what I think your faith is, I simply stated how I took your post. You could simply be real with me. I did not call you a kaffir. There is nothing wrong with questioning ones beliefs. Its when you condemn people, that crosses the line. Exactly, no one can fathom other interpretations because everyone is on their own path to the truth, but at the same time, anyone understands that there can only be one path. That is why, we are always questioning ourselves and others. Please do not take it the wrong way and try and find an excuse to "insult" Islam.

 

(wasalam)

 

Alright, sorry, I thought you were saying that I was not muslim.  Its alright.

Edited June 7, 2014 by iCambrian

[MohammadAli1993]

On 07/06/2014 at 9:38 AM, robbenmessi1010 said:

ويقول الشيخ المفيد في كتابه «أوائل المقالات» (ص38):

«فأما إطلاق القول عليهم بأنهم يعلمون الغيب فهو منكر بيِّنُ الفساد

Shaikh Mufid wrote in his book Awailul Maqalat (page 38): "As for saying that the Imams know ghayb, so it is an extremely evil and corrupt belief."

 

 

 

ويقول الشيخ الطوسي أيضاً في كتابه المذكور: «ولم نوجب أن يكون [الإمام] عالماً بما لا تعلُّق له بالأحكام الشرعية

Shaikh Tusi wrote in his book Talkhis al Shafi (Volume 1 page 252): "It is not wajib for the Imam to have any knowledge of things which are not directly related to Islamic laws". 

 

 

الشيخ رشيد الدين محمد بن شهرآشوب المازندراني المتوفى عام 586هـ  يقول في كتابه «متشابه القرآن ومختلفه» (طبع طهران، ج1/ص211) ما نصُّهُ:
«النبيّ والإمام يجب أن يعلما علوم الدين والشريعة ولا يجب أن يعلما الغيب وما كان وما يكون، لأنّ ذلك يؤدّي إلى أنّهما مشاركان للقديم تعالى

Ibn Shahr Ashoob (586 AH) wrote in his book Mutashabih al Qur'an (Volume 1 page 211): "The Prophet and the Imam must have full knowledge of the Islamic laws,but it is not incumbent upon them to have knowledge of ghaib, after all that would then mean that they are partners of Allah".
 

 

 

صاحب تفسير «مجمع البيان» يقول في تفسيره لقوله تعالى: ﴿وَلِـلَّهِ غَيْبُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ﴾ [هود/123] ما نصُّهُ:وَلا نعلم أحداً منهم استجاز الوصف بعلم الغيب لأحد من الخلق فإنما يستحق الوصف بذلك من يعلم جميع المعلومات لا بعلم مستفاد وَهذه صفة القديم سبحانه العالم لذاته لا يشركه فيها أحد من المخلوقين وَمن اعتقد أن غير الله سبحانه يشركه في هذه الصفة فهو خارج عن ملّة الإسلام. فأمّا ما نقل عن أمير المؤمنين (عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ) وَرواه عنه الخاص وَالعام من الإخبار بالغائبات في خطب الملاحم وغيرها..... فإن جميع ذلك مُتَلَقَّى عن النبيِّ صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم مما أطلعه الله عليه فلا معنى لنسبة من روي عنهم هذه الأخبار المشهورة إلى أنه يعتقد كونهم عالمين للغيب

Shaikh Tabrisi wrote in Majma al Bayan, for the commentary of this verse (Surah al Hud Vrse 123) "And for Allah is the knowledge of ghaib of the skies and the earth": "We do not know of any Shia scholar who permits attributing the knowledge of ghaib to any of the makhlooq (creatures) for the only one who is worthy of being characterised by such an attribute is the one who possesses all knowledge without acquisition. And this is true only for Allah whose knowledge is eternal and He knows everything by Himself (without acquiring it from any source). None is a partner of Him in this attribute and whoever believes that anyone other than Allah knows ghaib then he is outside the fold of Islam. Now as for what has been narrated by the Shias and non Shias among the ahadith of Imam Ali where he mentions some events which would take place in the future, so all that knowledge is what he inherited from the Prophet who in turn was informed by Allah (about some limited future events). So those ahadith do not at all mean that the Imams have knowledge of ghaib.

 

Hadiths:

 

ما رواه الكشي في (رجاله) في الحديث الصحيح عن ابن المغيرة قال كنت عند أبي الحسن (ع) أنا و يحيى بن عبد الله بن الحسن (ع) فقال يحيى جعلت فداك إنهم يزعمون أنك تعلم الغيب؟ فقال: سبحان الله سبحان الله ضع يدك على رأسي فو الله ما بقيت في جسدي شعرة و لا في رأسي إلا قامت قال ثم قال: لا و الله ما هي إلا وراثة عن رسول الله (ص

 
1) Shaikh Kashi reported (in his Rijal Kashi) in a sahih (authentic) hadith from ibn al Mughirah that he said: I was with abi al Hasan (as) along with Yahya b. Abdullah b. al Hasan, so Yahya said: "May we be your ransom, indeed they believe that you know ghaib (unseen)?" So Imam (as) said: "Glory be to Allah! Glory be to Allah! Place your hand on my head, for by Allah there does not remain a hair on my body or head but that it is standing up*." Imam (as) then continued: "No! By Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì it is not but inheritance from the Prophet (pbuh).*"

 

ما رواه الكشي في الصحيح عن ابن أبي عمير، عن شعيب، عن أبي بصير، قال قلت لأبي عبد الله (ع) إنهم يقولون! قال: و ما يقولون قلت يقولون تعلم قطر المطر و عدد النجوم و ورق الشجر و وزن ما في البحر و عدد التراب، فرفع يده إلى السماء، و قال: سبحان الله سبحان الله لا و الله ما يعلم هذا إلا الله.

2) Shaikh Kashi reported in a sahih hadith from ibn abi Umair, from Shu'aib, from abi Baseer, who said: I said to abi Abdullah (as): "Indeed they claim!" Imam (as) asked: "And what do they claim?" I said: "They claim that you know (number of) drops of the rain, number of stars and leaves of trees, weight of what is in the seas and number of (particles of) sand." So Imam (as) raised his hand towards the sky and said: "Subhanallah! Subhanallah! No one knows all this except for Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì."

 

3) What came among the signed letters of Imam Mahdi (as) in refutation of the ghulat, which he had written in reply to what Muhammad b. Ali. b. Hilal al Karkhi wrote to him.

يا محمد بن علي تعالى الله وجل عما يصفون، سبحانه وبحمده، ليس نحن شركاؤه في علمه ولا في قدرته، بل لا يعلم الغيب غيره، كما قال في محكم كتابه تباركت أسماؤه: (قل لا يعلم من في السماوات والأرض الغيب إلا الله

وأنا وجميع آبائي من الأولين: آدم ونوح وإبراهيم وموسى، وغيرهم من النبيين، ومن الآخرين محمد رسول الله، وعلي بن أبي طالب، وغيرهم ممن مضى من الأئمة صلوات الله عليهم أجمعين، إلى مبلغ أيامي ومنتهى عصري، عبيد الله عز وجل يقول الله عز وجل: (من أعرض عن ذكري فإن له معيشة ضنكا ونحشره يوم القيامة أعمى * قال رب لم حشرتني أعمى وقد كنت بصيرا * قال كذلك أتتك آياتنا فنسيتها وكذلك اليوم تنسى) يا محمد بن علي قد آذانا جهلاء الشيعة وحمقاؤهم، ومن دينه جناح البعوضة أرجح منه.
فأشهد الله الذي لا إله إلا هو وكفى به شهيدا، ورسوله محمد صلى الله عليه وآله، وملائكته وأنبياءه، وأولياءه عليهم السلام.
وأشهدك، وأشهد كل من سمع كتابي هذا، أني برئ إلى الله وإلى رسوله ممن يقول: إنا نعلم الغيب، ونشاركه في ملكه، أو يحلنا محلا سوى المحل الذي رضيه الله لنا وخلقنا له، أو يتعدى بنا عما قد فسرته لك وبينته في صدر كتابي.
وأشهدكم: أن كل من نبرأ منه فإن الله يبرأ منه وملائكته ورسله وأولياءه وجعلت هذا التوقيع الذي في هذا الكتاب أمانة في عنقك وعنق من سمعه أن لا يكتمه لأحد من موالي وشيعتي حتى يظهر على هذا التوقيع الكل من الموالي لعل الله عز وجل يتلافاهم فيرجعون إلى دين الله الحق، وينتهون عما لا يعلمون منتهى أمره، ولا يبلغ منتهاه، فكل من فهم كتابي ولا يرجع إلى ما قد أمرته ونهيته، فقد حلت عليه اللعنة من الله وممن ذكرت من عباده الصالحين

O Muhammad b. Ali! Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì is far above and exalted of what they describe, He is glorified and worthy of praise. We are not His partners in His knowledge or His authority. In fact, no one has the knowledge of the unseen (ghaib) other than Him, as He, blessed are His names, said in His clearly established book (al Qur'an 27:65)[say: "None in the heavens and the earth knows the Ghaib (unseen) except Allah].

And me and all my forefathers; from the earlier generation of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and others among the prophets, as well as the later generation of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Ali (as) and others before the Imams (as) to the end of my days and end of my era, were slaves of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì says (al Qur'an 20: 124-126):["But whosoever turns away from My Reminder verily, for him is a life of hardship, and We shall raise him up blind on the Day of Resurrection." He will say:"O my Lord! Why have you raised me up blind, while I had sight (before)." (Allah) will say: "Like this, Our signs came unto you, but you disregarded them, and so this Day, you will be neglected."]

O Muhammad b. Ali! The uneducated people and the idiots among the shias, and (people like) the one whose religion is outweighed by a bug's wing, have hurt us.

So I make Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, the one apart from whom there is no one worthy of worship, a witness and it is a sufficient testimony, and (I make witness) Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), His angels, His prophets and His beloved people. Peace be upon them all. And I make you a witness and all those who hear this message, I declare my dissociation to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and His messenger (pbuh) from anyone who says that we know ghaib, share His kingdom or attributes to us a position other than the one chosen by Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì for us and which we were created for, or transgresses with regards to us in what has been explained to you and laid out in the heart of this message.

And I make you all witness that whoever we dissociate from, then indeed Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, His angels, His messengers and His beloved people also dissociate from him. And I declare this message which is in this letter a trust (responsibility/duty) on your neck and the neck of everyone who hears it, to not conceal it from anyone among my lovers and shias so that this message is revealed to all the mawalis (lovers of ahlulbayt). Perhaps Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì will avert them so that they return to the true religion of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì and will stop from that about which they do not know its ending (result) nor will they reach it.

So anyone who comprehends this message but does not conform to what it has ordered and forbidden, then upon him is damnation of Allah and those pious people that have been mentioned.

 

 

 

So, what do you think? Doesn't this say something about the Shias today?  Subhanallah...

Those references you need to check within the book. Some of those quotes have been tampered with when I checked them. Don't be fooled guys