Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
notme

Divorce Questions

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Salam alaikum

Can a man refuse to divorce his wife and force her to remain in marriage against her will?

What is the purpose of the iddah? Would a woman whose husband has been absent for many years still need to observe iddah if she gets word that he has died or divorced her?

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Walaikumsalam wa rahmatullah,

Technically no, its zulm. But people do it anyhow unfortunately. This is why talaq al Khula is also available where the girl can obtain her divorce without the husband's permission.

Iddah has alot of wisdom within it. It gives the couple 3 months to reconcile in case they want to. Allows time to know whether she is pregnant or not. In the case that she is, the baby would have to be born before they complete the divorce. It is also good as it can help one to psychologically get over it too, etc

Best to check with your marja as their rulings may differ and it may vary based on individual situations.

Hope this helps,

786

Edited by 786repenting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What recourse does a woman have if her "husband" refuses divorce? Assume she does not have money to pay back the mahr.

If that husband has never supported the wife, does he owe her for her own money or other resources she obtained to support herself and any children? Can a portion of this debt be used to satisfy the mahr repayment?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have asked very general questions.

1. What recourse does a wife have whose husband refuses to divorce her, who does not have the money to pay back the mahr?

2. Can the husband's indebtedness to the wife be used to satisfy the requirements of khula?

3. Does a man who abandoned his family have a right to take away his children at any later time?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have asked very general questions.

1. What recourse does a wife have whose husband refuses to divorce her, who does not have the money to pay back the mahr?

2. Can the husband's indebtedness to the wife be used to satisfy the requirements of khula?

3. Does a man who abandoned his family have a right to take away his children at any later time?

 

The answers to these questions depends on where you live in the world.

 

If you live in the USA the answers would be:

1. you don't need his permission to file for divorce and if he wants his mahr back he can lawyer up and fight for it.  

2. Yes, if y'all were to battle it out in court he debt would cancel out what he believe is owed to him.

3. In family court he can seek a court order for visitation.  Y'all would have to battle it out in court again over custody.  A man can't take your kids an run off in America. That is called kidnapping. 

 

Like I say it all depends on where you live.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ that's all true for legal marriage, but not necessarily for Islamic marriage.

Also, can someone tell me how to or refer me to a site with instructions for khula divorce?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Iddah has alot of wisdom within it. It gives the couple 3 months to reconcile in case they want to. Allows time to know whether she is pregnant or not. In the case that she is, the baby would have to be born before they complete the divorce. It is also good as it can help one to psychologically get over it too, etc

 

I think the iddah is mainly for reconciliation purposes because if a girl gets her cycle some time after the divorce has taken place then clearly you know she's not pregnant. Then again some girls are not regular in their cycles...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the iddah is mainly for reconciliation purposes because if a girl gets her cycle some time after the divorce has taken place then clearly you know she's not pregnant. Then again some girls are not regular in their cycles...

If that is the purpose, then why don't men also have an iddah, at minimum if they have three other wives if not in all cases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wsalam,

If you want divorce and you have a good reason,then he has to divorce you. Offcourse,this doesnt happen in some countries like saudi,even if he abuses her the court will do as he pleases most of the time,men get their way. If you heard or someone told you he has divorced you,I dont think it's enough prove that he has divorced you.

I dont see the point of doing iddah if he has abandened you,it's not like theirs a chance of you getting pregent and if you have no one to provide for you and your family,offcourse you should be able to go out and work and get what you need.

He probably can ask to have children back later on..

The best thing to do is get a shia scholar,to help the person to do khule,if you go to a shia mosque am sure someone can help you there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If that is the purpose, then why don't men also have an iddah, at minimum if they have three other wives if not in all cases.

That's a good point. I was mainly focusing on the point that it provides both the husband and wife a period of 3 months to settle their differences and come back into the marriage without going through any sort of process. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The answers to these questions depends on where you live in the world.

 

If you live in the USA the answers would be:

1. you don't need his permission to file for divorce and if he wants his mahr back he can lawyer up and fight for it.  

2. Yes, if y'all were to battle it out in court he debt would cancel out what he believe is owed to him.

3. In family court he can seek a court order for visitation.  Y'all would have to battle it out in court again over custody.  A man can't take your kids an run off in America. That is called kidnapping. 

 

Like I say it all depends on where you live.

no no no..

What are you saying?

 

 

 

 

1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from a number of our companions from Sahl b. Ziyad, and from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father, all from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Abi Nasr from Aban from Abu Basir from `Amr b. Riyah from Abu Ja`far عليه السلام.  He said: I said to him: It has reached me that you say: One who divorced by other than the Sunna, that you do not regard his divorce to be anything.  So Abu Ja`far عليه السلام said: I do not say it, rather Allah says it.  By Allah, were we to give fatwa to you by injustice then we would be worse than you, for Allah says “Why do the masters and the rabbis not forbid them to utter sin, and consume the unlawful?” (5:63) to the end of the aya.

 

3 – And by the isnad from Ibn Abi Nasr from `Abd al-Karim from al-Halabi from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام in a hadith wherein he said: Divorce by other than the Sunna is void.

 

7 – And from him from his father from Ibn Abi `Umayr from Abu Ayyub from Muhammad b. Muslim from Abu Ja`far عليه السلام in a hadith wherein he said: Divorce is only that which Allah عزّ وجلّ commanded by.  So whoever contradicts (it), he does not have divorce.

 

10 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn in al-`Ilal from Ahmad b. al-Hasan the cotton merchant from Bakr b. `Abdullah b. Habib b. Tamim [b. `Abdullah] (not in al-`Ilal) b. Bahlul from his father from Isma`il b. al-Fadl al-Hashimi.  He said: Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام said: Divorce does not occur but upon the book of Allah and the Sunna, for, it is a hadd from the hudud of Allah عزّ وجلّ.  He says “When  you have divorced women then divorce them by their `idda and count the `idda” (65:1) and He says “And call to witness two just ones from you” (65:2) and He says “Those are the hudud of Allah.  And whoso transgresses the hudud of Allah has done wrong to himself.” (65:1). And the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله rejected the divorce of `Abdullah b. `Umar for it was in contradiction to the Book and the Sunna.

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/divorce/preliminaries-and-conditions/chapter-7

 

Other than that, it is zina.....

Edited by Nima

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If that is the purpose, then why don't men also have an iddah, at minimum if they have three other wives if not in all cases.

Maybe because Allah knows his creation better. Men do not have an emotional psychological make up and can get over it in little time. Many marry even after a month after a wife dies. It doesnt seem to have a long affect of many if not all. Allah's laws are set like that for many reasons, not just one. Women on the other hand are completely opposite.

Edited by 786repenting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe because Allah knows his creation better. Men do not have an emotional psychological make up and can get over it in little time. Many marry even after a month after a wife dies. It doesnt seem to have a long affect of many if not all. Allah's laws are set like that for many reasons, not just one. Women on the other hand are completely opposite.

 

I don't think that's true.  It might be for some people, but there are also many men who can't marry or wait many years to marry after the death of their wife, and there are women who are ready to marry before the grass has grown on the deceased husband's grave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that's true.  It might be for some people, but there are also many men who can't marry or wait many years to marry after the death of their wife, and there are women who are ready to marry before the grass has grown on the deceased husband's grave.

Im not generalising genders here, obviously people/situations differ. My point is that Allah has reasons for what he does and that MAY be a reason behind Allahs decision. If we start questioning every single thing, we wouldnt find out what the reasons as Allah doesnt need to explain himself to his creation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not generalising genders here, obviously people/situations differ. My point is that Allah has reasons for what he does and that MAY be a reason behind Allahs decision. If we start questioning every single thing, we wouldnt find out what the reasons as Allah doesnt need to explain himself to his creation.

 

I agree, the reasons of Allah are beyond our knowledge and probably will always be.  But if we DON'T question, we will never learn, we will be stuck simply following and not LIVING Islam.  :)

 

 

I think (strictly my opinion) Iddah is primarily about pregnancy.  That makes the most sense to me.  The reason it is more than one cycle is because sometimes a woman will continue t have her cycles at the very beginning of a pregnancy.  The reason it is shorter for mutah and longer for widowhood, I assume would be mercy.

 

But what I want to know is would a woman who hasn't seen her husband in a year, then gets word that he has died or divorced her have to observe iddah anew?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, the reasons of Allah are beyond our knowledge and probably will always be.  But if we DON'T question, we will never learn, we will be stuck simply following and not LIVING Islam.  :)

 

 

I think (strictly my opinion) Iddah is primarily about pregnancy.  That makes the most sense to me.  The reason it is more than one cycle is because sometimes a woman will continue t have her cycles at the very beginning of a pregnancy.  The reason it is shorter for mutah and longer for widowhood, I assume would be mercy.

 

But what I want to know is would a woman who hasn't seen her husband in a year, then gets word that he has died or divorced her have to observe iddah anew?

Questioning itself isnt forbidden, im talking with reference to WHY Allah did this and that. We cant get the answers to every single law. He knows whats best.

I know of people who have been away from their husbands for upto 5 years and have to STILL observe iddah at divorce. How can it be primarily about pregnancy? I have either READ OR HEARD, please dont quote me that as soon as a woman hears her husband has died, she must observe iddah from that day..

Surely its more than the concept of pregnancy? As I said Allah doesnt have just one reason for his laws.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely its more than the concept of pregnancy? As I said Allah doesnt have just one reason for his laws.

 

Probably.  :)  

Can anyone tell the the procedure for khula divorce?  I can't find anything reliable about it on the internet.  It seems to have faded out of existence.

Edit:  I found this topic.  http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234957631-questions-about-khula/

 

It sort of answers the question.  

 

Does the husband have to agree?  It seems unjust that a man can keep his wife hanging, neither married nor unmarried, and I know injustice isn't allowed in Islam, but it appears there is absolutely no way to divorce without him allowing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably. :) Can anyone tell the the procedure for khula divorce? I can't find anything reliable about it on the internet. It seems to have faded out of existence.Edit: I found this topic. http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234957631-questions-about-khula/

It sort of answers the question.

Does the husband have to agree? It seems unjust that a man can keep his wife hanging, neither married nor unmarried, and I know injustice isn't allowed in Islam, but it appears there is absolutely no way to divorce without him allowing it.

Yes it is unjust and isnt allowed. He doesnt have to agree. The main procedure is that the woman speaks to an scholar with her reasons. They then inform the man on three consecutive occasions that a divorce is being asked for. By the end of that if he doesnt agree, its done without him agreeing.

Divorce can be done without him.

Wasalam

Edited by 786repenting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone tell the the procedure for khula divorce?  I can't find anything reliable about it on the internet.  It seems to have faded out of existence.

 

Go to http://najaf.org/english/book/1/. From the left drop down menu select 'Divorce' and the select Khula' Divorce from the right drop down menu. This is based on Ayat. Sistani.

I think (strictly my opinion) Iddah is primarily about pregnancy.  That makes the most sense to me.  The reason it is more than one cycle is because sometimes a woman will continue t have her cycles at the very beginning of a pregnancy.  The reason it is shorter for mutah and longer for widowhood, I assume would be mercy.

 

 

Looks like you are right based on the following I found on Ayat. Sistani's website:

 

2519. A wife who is under nine and who is in her menopause will not be required to observe any waiting period. It means that, even if the husband has had sexual intercourse with her, she can remarry immediately after being divorced.

2520. If a wife who has completed nine years of her age and is not in menopause, is divorced by her husband after sexual intercourse, it is necessary for her to observe the waiting period of divorce. The waiting period of a free woman is that after her husband divorces her during her Pak period, she should wait till she sees Haidh twice and becomes Pak. Thereafter, as soon as she sees Haidh for the third time, her waiting period will be over and she can marry again.

If, however, a husband divorces his wife before having sexual intercourse with her, there is no waiting period for her and she can marry another man immediately after being divorced, except if she finds traces of her husband's semen in her private part, then she should observe Iddah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Go to http://najaf.org/english/book/1/. From the left drop down menu select 'Divorce' and the select Khula' Divorce from the right drop down menu. This is based on Ayat. Sistani.

 

Looks like you are right based on the following I found on Ayat. Sistani's website:

 

2519. A wife who is under nine and who is in her menopause will not be required to observe any waiting period. It means that, even if the husband has had sexual intercourse with her, she can remarry immediately after being divorced.

2520. If a wife who has completed nine years of her age and is not in menopause, is divorced by her husband after sexual intercourse, it is necessary for her to observe the waiting period of divorce. The waiting period of a free woman is that after her husband divorces her during her Pak period, she should wait till she sees Haidh twice and becomes Pak. Thereafter, as soon as she sees Haidh for the third time, her waiting period will be over and she can marry again.

If, however, a husband divorces his wife before having sexual intercourse with her, there is no waiting period for her and she can marry another man immediately after being divorced, except if she finds traces of her husband's semen in her private part, then she should observe Iddah.

 

yes, that is correct. But what if she hasn't had intercourse for 5 Years being away from her husband? It is impossible for her to be pregnant. She still has to do iddah. It can't be just due to the possibility of pregnancy, It wouldn't make sense to observe it. There are psychological effects of marriage such as attachment, memories, emotional effects etc. Allah takes everything into consideration..

Edited by 786repenting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes, that is correct. But what if she hasn't had intercourse for 5 Years being away from her husband? It is impossible for her to be pregnant. She still has to do iddah. It can't be just due to the possibility of pregnancy, It wouldn't make sense to observe it. There are psychological effects of marriage such as attachment, memories, emotional effects etc. Allah takes everything into consideration..

 

If that were the case then why would the ruling say the following:

 

'If, however, a husband divorces his wife before having sexual intercourse with her, there is no waiting period for her and she can marry another man immediately after being divorced'

 

That highlights that the iddah period is directly related to the sexual nature of the relationship. I am no expert in this subject matter, I am basically stating my opinion based on this ruling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If that were the case then why would the ruling say the following:

 

'If, however, a husband divorces his wife before having sexual intercourse with her, there is no waiting period for her and she can marry another man immediately after being divorced'

 

That highlights that the iddah period is directly related to the sexual nature of the relationship. I am no expert in this subject matter, I am basically stating my opinion based on this ruling.

 

I am not saying that isnt the reason. I'm just saying it isnt the ONLY reason. of course it has to be seen if she is pregnant or not that is important in terms of children's rights.

 

I am no expert either, I am just looking at it from a different angle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes, that is correct. But what if she hasn't had intercourse for 5 Years being away from her husband? It is impossible for her to be pregnant. She still has to do iddah. It can't be just due to the possibility of pregnancy, It wouldn't make sense to observe it. There are psychological effects of marriage such as attachment, memories, emotional effects etc. Allah takes everything into consideration..

Any a woman will get over it in just a few months?  Give me a break.  Show me proof that iddah is for psychological reasons and not solely to rule out the possibility of pregnancy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any a woman will get over it in just a few months?  Give me a break.  Show me proof that iddah is for psychological reasons and not solely to rule out the possibility of pregnancy.

 

Have you even read the previous posts? Allah knows his creation better firstly, Secondly, it is confirmed that it is due to pregnancy. However in OTHER situations it is enough proof that it MAY entail it being due to psychological reasons. A woman being physically away from her husband for FIVE YEARS? where is her possibility of pregnancy then? give me a break.

 

Divorce isn't a joke and some people have no choice but to take that route so it takes time for them to get over it. It doesn't say it is COMPULSORY to marry after three months, its says she MAY marry after that. She can take as long as she wants after the main period is over though the recommendation is to marry quickly.

Edited by 786repenting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you even read the previous posts? Allah knows his creation better firstly, Secondly, it is confirmed that it is due to pregnancy. However in OTHER situations it is enough proof that it MAY entail it being due to psychological reasons. A woman being physically away from her husband for FIVE YEARS? where is her possibiyoulity of pregnancy then? give me a break.

 

Divorce isn't a joke and some people have no choice but to take that route so it takes time for them to get over it. It doesn't say it is COMPULSORY to marry after three months, its says she MAY marry after that. She can take as long as she wants after the main period is over though the recommendation is to marry quickly.

 

Yes, I did.  Allah knows, you don't...so don't make up reasons on the spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I did.  Allah knows, you don't...so don't make up reasons on the spot.

 

yes he does. what do you mean reasons? lol. That is the ruling given by alims. women have to wait for iddah even if they have been away from their husbands for your information. Stop being so rude, I just spoke to you the way you spoke to me. You couldn't answer it so now you are telling me I am making it up. please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is the ruling given by alims. women have to wait for iddah even if they have been away from their husbands for your information.

On what basis from Quran or hadith? Emotional attachment isn't going to be there either if he has been absent for a long time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have personally spoken to a few alims who said that iddah must be done. Of course they get it from Quran or hadith where else from?Syed Muhammed Rizvi of Islamic centre in London issues divorces. He informed me himself. I will ask him or another alim for a reference. Emotional attachment is a possibility, there is something called the internet or the phones where people could have contact. It wasnt a compulsory part of a situation anyhow as they all differ.

Edited by 786repenting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Thank you for your answer. It's better to err on the side of caution anyway. I just wondered where it was mentioned in Quran or hadith.

If a woman believes her husband to be dead but does not remarry after the iddah, then gets word that he had died very recently, would she have to observe iddah again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

salams all,

 

With regards to your question. I got the following asnwer from a scholar in the USA.

 

I asked for a reference which explains that a woman has to do iddah even if she was away from her husband. This was his reply.

 

"As-salaamu alaykum, It's in detailed arabic fatwa books. like Urwat ul-wuthqah. It is not translated into English at all. Thank you. I pray Allah keeps you with salamah and aafiyah. Syed Mohammed Abbas Ayleya, Seattle.

 

I have yet to find Syed Mohammed Rizvi of islamic centre in case he has direct references inshaAllah.

 

ma'salaama

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...