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Sumerian

Feminism

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I am sorry to say this brothers and sisters in Islaam, but I see a rise in feminism and in particular in Allaah (s.w.t)'s pure RELIGION. I have fear that if feminism continues, women will take off their veils! And what a horror that would be... The abayaah' and the niqab' are losing their value aswell!

May Allaah (s.w.t) protect us Muslimeen from such Liberal and Western ideologies!

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I am sorry to say this brothers and sisters in Islaam, but I see a rise in feminism and in particular in Allaah (s.w.t)'s pure RELIGION. I have fear that if feminism continues, women will take off their veils! And what a horror that would be... The abayaah' and the niqab' are losing their value aswell!

May Allaah (s.w.t) protect us Muslimeen from such Liberal and Western ideologies!

 

Lol this guy. If they want to, let em. Right thing to do anyway.

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What the hello does clothing have to do with feminism and why would it be a problem for Muslim men and women to adopt some feminist ideology, so long as it doesn't conflict with Islam? (Right to abortion is an example of a feminist idea which is incompatible with Islam, but I can't think of others offhand and plenty of non-feminists support abortion.)

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First wave feminism was a good thing. But third wave feminism is a bit..yeah. Seems more of a benign version of a matriarchy.  Most sane people in Europe and America are waking up to the damage it has done to Western Civilization.

 

Lol this guy. If they want to, let em. Right thing to do anyway

 

Take 'shia islam' off your profile description.

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:Women are already taking off :Hijab and its not because feminism. Its because they are tested by :Allah in the work place. For example, I know a girl who took off :Hijab because the medical clinic she wanted to work at had patients who complained that a :Muslim worked there. Her boss gave her a choice- quit working there or take off the :Hijab. I know multiple girls who faced this problem in the medical field but they stay quiet about these problems and dont sue so that when they apply for med school they dont have some bad rep from suing a place that was racist against them.

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Heh you're telling this guy to 'fear Allah'? He's just another product of the 'Islamic' Republic of Pakistan.

 

What sort of a product he'd been if he'd said the same thing and were a citizen of:

 

1) Islamic Republic of Iran

2) Syrian Arab Republic

3) Arab Republic of Egypt

4) People's Republic of Bangladesh

5) Islamic Republic of Afghanistan

 

Please opine on the differences in his reply with respect to the five nationalities mentioned.

 

Thanks.

Edited by Marbles

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They already are taking hijab off. It becoming a thing they call it "dare to take it off" woman are taking pics in remote places without hijab and posting them on fb. The western feminist movement have started to affect our own sisters.

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They already are taking hijab off. It becoming a thing they call it "dare to take it off" woman are taking pics in remote places without hijab and posting them on fb. The western feminist movement have started to affect our own sisters.

I doubt this has much to do with feminism and a lot to do with being a teenager. This is the kind of things girls have done for centuries, only nowadays they remain teenagers much longer than in past times.

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They already are taking hijab off. It becoming a thing they call it "dare to take it off" woman are taking pics in remote places without hijab and posting them on fb. The western feminist movement have started to affect our own sisters.

 

Countless those in the Muslim world who don't do hijab or giving it up know next to nothing about feminism and therefore do not call themselves as such. This and other acts of irreligioisty (like missing obligatory prayers and fasting) come to people in different forms and ways. I remember a couplet of a mid 19th century poet who said, 'I know the virtues of praying and fasting but my heart doesn't come to worship'. He then said, 'I also know the vileness of alcohol and gambling but can't stop indulging.'

 

In other words, it is not a good idea to ascribe every act of irreligiosity to 'feminism' or to Western influence.

Edited by Marbles

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You may be right but in social media this is called a feminist movement. Tho I agree their hearts are not there. As for this only being teens is not the truth almost 3/4 of older women here where I live have removed their hijab or only wear half hijab. This isn't a feminist movement but it's a fact. Feminism is everywhere from those wanting equality through clothing to having Islamic laws equal in all.

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What the hello does clothing have to do with feminism and why would it be a problem for Muslim men and women to adopt some feminist ideology, so long as it doesn't conflict with Islam? (Right to abortion is an example of a feminist idea which is incompatible with Islam, but I can't think of others offhand and plenty of non-feminists support abortion.)

 

agree with you.

This is a thread looking for a fight.

Edited by DreamCatcher

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(Bismillah)

why would it be a problem for Muslim men and women to adopt some feminist ideology, so long as it doesn't conflict with Islam?

(Salam)

It would no longer be 'feminist ideology' then, I think, but I could be wrong.

An example is women having the exact same rights (note that there is a difference between 'equal' and 'same') as men do within a marriage, or sometimes even more control over it than the man. That's another incompatible idea.

To be honest, feminism is directly in contrast to Islamic ideals in a lot of ways... Islam promotes a sort of patriarchal society in which the "men have been made the protectors and maintainers of women". And this fundamentally goes against feminist goals such as the eradication of gender roles and the equal distribution of authority within society between both genders... The list goes on. Islam is completely against all of this and we have ahadith that actually condemn a lot of the teachings of this ideology.

That being said, ideas like the notion of female empowerment in terms of education, some rights, etc., would be supported by Shia Islamic values, so in a sense you're right that some positions within the ideology can be taken and implemented for the betterment of even an Islamic society and the betterment of the Shia as a whole, but at the end of the day the ideology itself and the principles that make up its core would not be the ones that are taken by the Shias.

(Wasalam)

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No feminism has not influenced them.... I will tell you why some take it off:forcefully wearing it without understanding why they have woren it, the need to fit in their peer groups,attracting men/boys,understanding that what they are doing is degrading the hijabie image and some make a free choose to take it off,some get builled and others get tested.

I have to say that more people are taking it off these days. Looking good and media and what attracts guys,is getting to some sister's heads.

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The feminism that is inherently opposed to the veil is only one form of feminism.  Feminism = women's rights.  I conisder myself a feminist and I wear hijab.


(bismillah)


(salam)

It would no longer be 'feminist ideology' then, I think, but I could be wrong.

An example is women having the exact same rights (note that there is a difference between 'equal' and 'same') as men do within a marriage, or sometimes even more control over it than the man. That's another incompatible idea.

To be honest, feminism is directly in contrast to Islamic ideals in a lot of ways... Islam promotes a sort of patriarchal society in which the "men have been made the protectors and maintainers of women". And this fundamentally goes against feminist goals such as the eradication of gender roles and the equal distribution of authority within society between both genders... The list goes on. Islam is completely against all of this and we have ahadith that actually condemn a lot of the teachings of this ideology.

That being said, ideas like the notion of female empowerment in terms of education, some rights, etc., would be supported by Shia Islamic values, so in a sense you're right that some positions within the ideology can be taken and implemented for the betterment of even an Islamic society and the betterment of the Shia as a whole, but at the end of the day the ideology itself and the principles that make up its core would not be the ones that are taken by the Shias.

(wasalam)

 

I am not sure you understand how diverse the feminist movement is.

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What sort of a product he'd been if he'd said the same thing and were a citizen of:

 

1) Islamic Republic of Iran

2) Syrian Arab Republic

3) Arab Republic of Egypt

4) People's Republic of Bangladesh

5) Islamic Republic of Afghanistan

 

 

 2, 3 & 4

 

Reactionary muslims condemn feminism in toto without realizing it has evolved over the centuries. "First wave feminism" of the 18th & 19th century was a wonderful thing, it brought women all the rights our creed had given for the last 1400 years. Property rights for married women, access to higher education, voting, increased protection from domestic abuse, it was a great thing.

 

However, after the suffragettes extended universal suffrage to women, the demands were gradually beginning to mutate to something more than just individualist ideals. Second & third wave feminism started kicking in. "Female quotas" are now being enforced in the workplace, where gender matters more than talent and skills. Sexual harassment has become a female only issue, and males are now just expected to drown into a sea of fitna and lewdness. Its nothing less than female privelage now.

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No feminism has not influenced them.... I will tell you why some take it off:forcefully wearing it without understanding why they have woren it, the need to fit in their peer groups,attracting men/boys,understanding that what they are doing is degrading the hijabie image and some make a free choose to take it off,some get builled and others get tested.

I have to say that more people are taking it off these days. Looking good and media and what attracts guys,is getting to some sister's heads.

 

I agree.  And I have known many girls that wore hijab and then took it off, not one of the cited feminism as their reason for doing so.

 2, 3 & 4

 

Reactionary muslims condemn feminism in toto without realizing it has evolved over the centuries. "First wave feminism" of the 18th & 19th century was a wonderful thing, it brought women all the rights our creed had given for the last 1400 years. Property rights for married women, access to higher education, voting, increased protection from domestic abuse, it was a great thing.

 

However, after the suffragettes extended universal suffrage to women, the demands were gradually beginning to mutate to something more than just individualist ideals. Second & third wave feminism started kicking in. "Female quotas" are now being enforced in the workplace, where gender matters more than talent and skills. Sexual harassment has become a female only issue, and males are now just expected to drown into a sea of fitna and lewdness. Its nothing less than female privelage now.

 

Female privilege...that's an interesting one.  Sexual harassment can happen to both men and women and I think most feminists would agree.  Feminism is not meant to give women more rights than men, but equal rights.  It is only a certain brand of feminist that wants that and cannot be considered the average kind, just the loudest kind, much like how extremist Muslims tend to make the most noise and get the most attention.  Women's rights is still a major issue in much of the world...Honor killings, female genital mutilation, dowry violence, the list goes on...

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I agree.  And I have known many girls that wore hijab and then took it off, not one of the cited feminism as their reason for doing so.

 

'Feminism' is often used as an excuse to explain away the lack of hijab in some women without realising that there could be - and are - tons of other reasons to consider, some of which point directly at the problems within our own Muslim cultures.

 

Shirking responsibility is a pastime of (some) Muslims. Without addressing the issue in a meaningful way these simpletons just point out at everything that is not them, hence the unreasonable and uneducated diatribes against feminism, when Muslim world probably needs a lot of feminist ideas such as right to modern education, right to work and career, recourse to strong law vis-a-vis sexual harassment etc. For example in some Muslim countries there isn't even a law against sexual harassment.

Edited by Marbles

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They are influenced by the West to give up Hijab'. Thid is a fact. The West are making it seem like Hijab' is a backward tradition, because of growing liberalism and secularism.

 

I think most likely the weakness of not wanting to cover comes from within themselves.  They want to show off their beauty, it is only that seeing Western women on television and other women in their area not wearing hijab has normalized it.

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Female privilege...that's an interesting one.  Sexual harassment can happen to both men and women and I think most feminists would agree.  Feminism is not meant to give women more rights than men, but equal rights.  It is only a certain brand of feminist that wants that and cannot be considered the average kind, just the loudest kind, much like how extremist Muslims tend to make the most noise and get the most attention.  Women's rights is still a major issue in much of the world...Honor killings, female genital mutilation, dowry violence, the list goes on...

Yes and that extremist voice is what we call 'third wave feminism'. We can address all these human rights violations without subscribing to the modern brand of feminism.

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Female privilege...that's an interesting one.  Sexual harassment can happen to both men and women and I think most feminists would agree.  Feminism is not meant to give women more rights than men, but equal rights.  It is only a certain brand of feminist that wants that and cannot be considered the average kind, just the loudest kind, much like how extremist Muslims tend to make the most noise and get the most attention.  Women's rights is still a major issue in much of the world...Honor killings, female genital mutilation, dowry violence, the list goes on...

 

Exactly. Some people think headline-making FEMEN** type feminism is the mainstream and real feminism. Whereas these types are fringe and if we read mainstream works by feminists we see that this type of exhibitionists girls are not taken seriously. Mainstream feminism is completely against porn and all its manifestations yet these fringe groups are exact opposites. And many times angry ramblings of girls who see men as their enemies are also taken as an expression of feminism when it's not. The mainstream feminists right from the time of Wollstonecraft and De Beauvoir worked hand in hand with men who advocated women rights.

 

 

** Now guys, don't put this in your Google image search engine.

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You don't need the topless slags from Ukraine to be against the modern brand of feminism. If you brought Wollstonecraft to the 21st century and told her 'female quotas' exist in the workplace, she would have laughed you out the room. The female privelage might not be deliberate, but today's feminists imbibe a culture of self-conscious paranoia which inevitably leads to such a dilemma. They see few female stock brokers, so they just jump on the bandwagon and assume its because of the employer discriminating. Without verifying these assumptions, they hastily suggest the lack of female employees requires female quotas.  And this is imposed on the employer regardless of his intentions; so if most of his employees are males and he is obliged to fill the the remaining job vacancies with women, he has to reject male applicants by default regardless of their talent or skill.

 

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, the culture of paranoia goes much further than this. Theres a reason why Anders Breivik says feminism is the height of political correctness.

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lol joking aside, I think feminism is utter rubbish.  A bunch of females who [have hatred] hate men entirely. (Just being blunt, I am sorry if it hurts your feelings) Sure, you can say you have "degrees" of feminism, but lets not sugar coat anything. In this day and age, that is what feminism is. It baffles my mind, that there has to be an anti man movement, blaming man for everything. Yet, they are the first to say, we just want "equal rights". Where the heck is the honesty and fairness?  The fact that this movement is named after and signified by a "woman only aurora" proves its purpose in my opinion. Yea sure, for example, if you support the idea that women should be able to drive and go to education, dont call it "feminism", call it humane rights (that should be confined within Islam of course). For most non-ignorant (Muslim) men agree. This is my opinion from my experience and limited knowledge from this. All over social media I always see such propaganda and it baffles me. If you want to interpret my post as a post against one "degree" of feminism go ahead.

 

Bottom line is, stop with the one sided-ness. Call for humane rights entirely. Lets not base it on a gender specifically.

 

 

"O mankind, surely We have created you from a mele and a female, and made you nations and tribes, that you may know each other. Surely the noblest of you with Allah is the most righteous. Surely Allah Knowing, Aware."(Holy Qur’an, 49:13)

 

"...and women have rights similar to those against them in a just manner,..." (Holy Qur’an, 2:228)

 

"And whoever does righteous deeds, whether male or female, and he/she is a believer - they will enter the Garden, and not the least injustice will be done to them." (Holy Qur’an, 4:124).

"Whoever does good, whether male or female, and is a believer, We shall certainly make him live a good life, and We shall certainly give them their reward for the best of what they did." (Holy Qur’an, 16:97)

 

"...I will not suffer the work of any worker among you to be lost whether male or female, the one of you being from the other..."(Holy Qur’an, 3:195)

 

http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/vol1-n2/islam-and-womens-rights-muhammad-jawad-bahonar

http://www.al-islam.org/rights-women-islam-ayatullah-murtadha-mutahhari/part-five-human-status-woman-quran

 

 

(wasalam)

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You don't need the topless slags from Ukraine to be against the modern brand of feminism. If you brought Wollstonecraft to the 21st century and told her 'female quotas' exist in the workplace, she would have laughed you out the room. The female privelage might not be deliberate, but today's feminists imbibe a culture of self-conscious paranoia which inevitably leads to such a dilemma. They see few female stock brokers, so they just jump on the bandwagon and assume its because of the employer discriminating. Without verifying these assumptions, they hastily suggest the lack of female employees requires female quotas.  And this is imposed on the employer regardless of his intentions; so if most of his employees are males and he is obliged to fill the the remaining job vacancies with women, he has to reject male applicants by default regardless of their talent or skill.

 

You can debate the policies and tactics (quotas in some case may be good; in other cases not so much) but the underlying principles remain the same, and a cursory look at the world would tell an objective observer that most of the world, and moreso the Muslim world, has still a long way to go to accommodate women in the society on merit.

 

And that's just the tip of the iceberg, the culture of paranoia goes much further than this. Theres a reason why Anders Breivik says feminism is the height of political correctness.

 

Oh him - a great authority on Islam and feminism, of course.

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Right.

All Muslims are terrorists too, and are opposed to education, and support killing or forcibly converting non-Muslims.

Because there's no such thing as extremists hijacking an ideology.

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You can debate the policies and tactics (quotas in some case may be good; in other cases not so much) but the underlying principles remain the same, and a cursory look at the world would tell an objective observer that most of the world, and moreso the Muslim world, has still a long way to go to accommodate women in the society on merit.

 

 

 

 

Oh him - a great authority on Islam and feminism, of course.

Haha well Mr. Breivik is just reiterating the conservative view of modern feminism all across the West, we can ignore him and listen to the more sane conservatives.

 

Yeah that's the other thing, the communist doctrine of equality and cultural relativism clearly fails here. There's a reason why women  get less pay than men in the West. It is an implicit recognition of the biological/physiological differences of the two sexes, even if adherants to the doctrine of equality don't want to admit it. When a mother goes on maternity leave, she's naturally going to be less valuable to her employer. Yet admitting this evident reality amounts to misogyny, just like those takfiris who anathematise any muslim with a differing opinion. The former don't hate women, nor are the latter intentionally rejecting Islamic injunctions. They're just stating reality. It's political correctness gone mad.   

 

According to sharia the mother gets custody over the children in cases of divorce rather than the male. Fuqaha explained this by clarifying that women are more compassionate & better able to take care of children. Would that be misandry? Nope, just an observation of reality. Third wave feminism is oblivious to the traditional privelages of the mother, as it discourages the role of the mother and encourages both sexes to adopt the same lifestyle. This is disastrous.

Edited by Jahangiram

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:huh:

I had heard the opposite. Can you provide proof of this?

 

عَنْ جَدِّهِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَمْرٍو، أَنَّ امْرَأَةً، قَالَتْ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ إِنَّ ابْنِي هَذَا كَانَ بَطْنِي لَهُ وِعَاءً وَثَدْيِي لَهُ سِقَاءً وَحِجْرِي لَهُ حِوَاءً وَإِنَّ أَبَاهُ طَلَّقَنِي وَأَرَادَ أَنْ يَنْتَزِعَهُ مِنِّي فَقَالَ لَهَا رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله

عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ أَنْتِ أَحَقُّ بِهِ مَا لَمْ تَنْكِحِي ‏"

 

 

"It was reported from ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar that a woman said, “O Messenger of Allaah, my womb was a container for this son of mine and my lap was a haven for him, and he drank from my breast, but his father is claiming that he should take him from me.” The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “You have more right to him (to custody of him) so long as you do not remarry.” - Sunan Abu Dawud, hadith no. 2276

 

Although this is a sunni hadith our position is practically the same, if you read Shaikh Mufid and others. The only difference of opinion  is regarding after suckling, some say the kids go to the mother without question, others say theyre given a choice at age 7, others say the daughter goes to the mother while the son goes to the father. But theres consensus about children aged below 2.

Edited by Jahangiram

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^ then why the widespread belief, even among our scholars, that custody goes to the father after weaning because he has greater access to resources and remarriage?

Also, why would a woman only have a right to raise her children if she doesn't remarry? Wouldn't it be better for the child to grow up in a family?

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