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Logical Islamic

Did Abu-Bakr Do Anything Good ?

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I have seen him sending tardiyyah on Abu Bakr in an interview with al-Jazeera.

 

I've seen a scholar in my mosque say Hazrat Abubakr. It does not mean they revere them.

 

He believes:

 

1. The caliphs usurped the cilapha role, Imam Ali a.s was the rightful one

2. Umar threatened to burn down the house of Fatima a.s - maybe he followed through with it maybe he didn'

 

I think that is more than enough

 

What will we gain by taking a biased one sided view of a person ? Let's call a spade a spade. Abu Bakr did portions of good was a famous companion, but in key things also went against the command of the Prophet pbuh leading to the chaos we saw in the rule of the muslim Ummah and the opression of the ahlulbayt a.s

Edited by Logical Islamic

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i think the answer would be: who cares, and to your sunni relative that should be your response.

 

This would not be how our Imams a.s would address things though. They would be polite, balanced. They would give a balanced view.

 

Even Imam Jaffer Sadiq a.s would say "According to the opinion of X scholar"

Edited by Logical Islamic

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I'm sure Abu Lahab did some good things too. I'll bet you anything that Hitler was a pretty nice guy if you didn't happen to be "undesirable". And Osama bin Ladin was known for his polite manners when he wasn't killing people.

How far are you really willing to go with this? Shall we start making excuses for Shaytan himself as well? I'm pretty sure he is a great guy to the corrupt people that he props up. Maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt too?

As for Imam Sadiq's عليه السلام approach to this, we have many narrations of him in particular sending curses upon Abu Bakr in his salah. It was also Imam Sadiq عليه السلام that encouraged us to increase our Sabihim (insults) towards Abu Bakr. So I highly doubt that your speculation on what the blessed Imam عليه السلام would do is correct.

Edited by Agora

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I'm sure Abu Lahab did some good things too. I'll bet you anything that Hitler was a pretty nice guy if you didn't happen to be "undesirable". And Osama bin Ladin was known for his polite manners when he wasn't killing people.

How far are you really willing to go with this? Shall we start making excuses for Shaytan himself as well? I'm pretty sure he is a great guy to the corrupt people that he props up. Maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt too?

 

 

Brother, i think you have misunderstood my intention. I am not trying to say, Abu Bakr did x good, so let's increase our respect and slightly over-look some bad.

 

The bad we believe he has done will always remain bad. That will never change.

 

My only intention is, when you talk with Sunni's, you must acknowledge the truth-  he did god things, BUT with key things disobeyed the messenger of Allah swt.

 

I'm not trying to make Abu Bakr look better. I'm trying to help us in dialouge so when we go to our brothers, we show them we are sane, we show them we have a balanced picture.

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It was Sayyidna Usman ra who sacrificed his wealth on the Ummah for he was very kind hearted.

 

 

Umar ibn Khattab said: “Prophet (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) ordered us to give sadaqa.  It happened to coincide with some wealth I had just acquired and I said to myself: If I will every surpass Abu Bakr, this is the day I will surpass him. And so I came to the Prophet (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) with half of my wealth and he (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said to me:  "What have you left for your family?" I said:  The same amount.  Then, Abu Bakr came with all of his wealth.  The Prophet (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said to him: "What have you left for your family?" He said: “ I have left them Allah and His Messenger.” I said:  I will never surpass you in anything.” [Abu Dawood (a hassan hadith)]

 

Abu Bakr As-Siddique was the closest of the Companions in relationship to the Prophet (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam). Ibn Abbas (radiallahu anhu) reports: “The Prophet (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) came out during his illness from which he died, his head bound with a cloth.  He sat on the minbar, thanked Allah, praised Him and said: “There is no one among the people who has been more generous to me with his life and his property than Abu Bakr ibn Abi Quhaafa (radiallahu anhu) and if I was to take a bosom friend, I would take Abu Bakr as my bosom friend.  But, the friendship of Islam is better. Block off every door in this Masjid except the door of Abu Bakr” [saheeh Al-Bukharee]

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Lol. "Balanced picture". Our view is simple.

 

I know we believe he went against the Prophet Pbuh, i.e in Saqifah and other places, i am not asking us to change our view.

 

I just want the truth - do we believe he did any good whatsoever? If so, then we have to list this.

 

We will go to our sunni brethrin and say, yes, he did this good and that good, but he did bad, which heavily outweighed any good.

 

Is that not better than going in with a false, biased, view that no he did nothing good, no he's bad through and through - because not even Shaytan was.

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 عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنْ حَنَانِ بْنِ سَدِيرٍ وَ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ إِسْمَاعِيلَ عَنْ حَنَانِ بْنِ سَدِيرٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ               عَنْهُمَا فَقَالَ يَا أَبَا الْفَضْلِ مَا تَسْأَلُنِي عَنْهُمَا فَوَ اللَّهِ مَا مَاتَ مِنَّا مَيِّتٌ قَطُّ إِلَّا سَاخِطاً عَلَيْهِمَا وَ مَا مِنَّا الْيَوْمَ إِلَّا سَاخِطاً عَلَيْهِمَا يُوصِي بِذَلِكَ الْكَبِيرُ مِنَّا الصَّغِيرَ إِنَّهُمَا ظَلَمَانَا حَقَّنَا وَ مَنَعَانَا فَيْئَنَا وَ كَانَا أَوَّلَ مَنْ رَكِبَ أَعْنَاقَنَا وَ بَثَقَا عَلَيْنَا بَثْقاً فِي الْإِسْلَامِ لَا يُسْكَرُ أَبَداً حَتَّى يَقُومَ قَائِمُنَا أَوْ يَتَكَلَّمَ مُتَكَلِّمُنَا ثُمَّ قَالَ أَمَا وَ اللَّهِ لَوْ قَدْ قَامَ قَائِمُنَا أَوْ تَكَلَّمَ مُتَكَلِّمُنَا لَأَبْدَى مِنْ أُمُورِهِمَا مَا كَانَ يُكْتَمُ وَ لَكَتَمَ مِنْ أُمُورِهِمَا مَا كَانَ يُظْهَرُ وَ اللَّهِ مَا أُسِّسَتْ مِنْ بَلِيَّةٍ وَ لَا قَضِيَّةٍ تَجْرِي عَلَيْنَا أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ إِلَّا هُمَا أَسَّسَا أَوَّلَهَا فَعَلَيْهِمَا لَعْنَةُ اللَّهِ وَ الْمَلَائِكَةِ وَ النَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ .


 


That’s the only properly trustworthy narration I can find that is in support of sending la'nah on the sheikhain. It’s from al Kāfi, volume 8 hadīth 340. Allamah al Majlisi grades it hasan muwathaq so it can be relied upon. I’ll do a rough translation:


 


I asked Imam al-Baqir (as) about these two (Abu Bakr and Umar). He replied: "O Aba al-Fadhl! Do not ask me about them for, by Allah, non among us (Ahlul Bayt) would die except that he is displeased with those two. No day passes to us except that we are angry with them.They oppressed us and denied our rights and they were the first people who imposed themselves over us and opened the way of injustice against us that does not stop until our Qa'im rises. By Allah! No affliction was set up against us and no trouble faced us Ahlul Bayt except that those two at the foundation. Therefore, upon those two are the curses of Allah and the angels and the people.


 


And since sahīh Bukhari has lying narrators like Abu Hurrairah, Aisha, and Ibn Umar with chains filled with nawāsib who would uplift the status of the sheikhain and lie about other rubbish (such as Allah having a body and what not), that is the most reliable hadīth we've got  (hasan muwathaq according to Majlisi) and I'm sure the message of Imam al Baqir (as) is pretty clear.


Edited by Thaqalyn

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No-one seems to have understood my point at all. I am not trying to say we should revere Abu Bakr or lessen the bad we believe he did.

 

I just want us to give an academic account of him. If he did good - what good ? Present a balanced view to our brothers.

 

Any good he did i agree won't take away from wrongly taking the position of leader, oppressing Fatima a.s and so on.

 

But we must when in dialogue acknowledge, if it is true, yes he did this, i know you love him dearly, but here's our proof despite being a companion, despite being in the cave, we look at his whole life and here are instances we strongly condemn.

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What good does discussing someone's goodness do if their overall character is questionable. I have always questioned your purpose on this site. Saying satan was a great worshiper, doesnt signify anything but the fact that no matter how much good one does, one single disobedience to Allah makes you lowest of the low. So again, this thread and its purpose is highly fishy.

He posts better things than you for sure though

It's a pretty simple question of his whether there were any positive things this individual did for Muslims

He was an enemy of Islam, though some accounts suggest he did some good things. Most likely only to make himself look good, but still positive action though it lacks sincerity

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Surely the truth is Abu Bakr was one of the close companions of Muhammed pbuh, who did good, but perhaps at points of his life and after the death of Muhammed pbuh also did bad(went against the commands of Muhammed pbuh)?

.

"perhaps...also did bad"?

Perhaps?

That 'sabihim' hadīth- where is it found Agora?

“The Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã has said, ‘When you after me find people of bid’ah (innovation) and doubt/suspicion, do baraa- (disassociation) from them and increase your condemnation (sabihim), words and opposition to and evidence against them (baahitoohum) so they may not become greedy to bring fasaad (corruption) to Islam. You must warn people against them and against learning their bid’ah (innovations). Allah will reward you for this and will raise you darajaat (positions) in the next life.’”

Source:

Al-Kulaynee, Al-Kaafee, vol. 2, ch. 159 "Sitting/Associating with Sinful People", pg. 375, hadeeth # 4

Grading:

Majlisi has graded this hadeeth SaHeeH

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