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In the Name of God بسم الله

Sunnis Please Explain

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I would really appreciate if a Sunni (preferably muslim720) could give me their opinion on this, and what is the reasoning for this statement?

Doubtlessly, it is not lawful to curse or abuse any of the companions, neither cursing and abusing Ali (as) nor uthman or anyone else. SIN OF ONE WHO ABUSES ALI IS LESS THAN THE SIN OF ONE WHO ABUSES ABU BAKR, UMAR, AND UTHMAN. If one is having justification of abusing Ali (as), he is not having justification of abusing Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. Soldiers of Muawiyah are not blameable, it is the Shia, because they abuse the first three caliphs, whereas a nasibi only abuses Ali (as)

Minhajus Sunnatun Nabawiya volume 4 pg 46

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This book was written by Ibn taymiyyah in response to Al-Hilli's "Minhaj al Karama fi Muarfatul Imama"..... Do u have this book? Did u translate it? Because thie book has not been yet translated in english in full so I would like u to provide us with a  scanned reference.... 

 

 

 

It seems very unlikely that Ibn taymiyah rahimahullah spoke ill of Ali ibn Abu Talib radiallahu anhu. If you read his book aqeedah wasitiyah you will see his views on the companions radiallahu anhum. Not only this but he has a section on the view of Ahlus Sunnah concerning the ahluh bayt. He has nothing but praise for them and he condemns the nasibis and the rafidis.

 

 

There is absolutely no doubt that Ibn Taymiyyah was a harsh opponent of Shias, and because of this, some of the Shias have slandered him by claiming that he was a Nasibi (i.e. hater of Ahlel Bayt). Answering-Ansar refers to him as “Imam of the Nasibis, Ibn Taymiyya”. And yet, Ibn Taymiyyah was a lover of Ahlel Bayt; not only did he love the Ahlel Bayt, but he publically declared the necessity of loving the Ahlel Bayt as a part of the creed of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah. Let us narrate what Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah wrote in his most famous book, Al-Aqeedah Al-Wasitiyyah; he said:
 

“They (the believers) accept what has been reported continuously from the Prince of the Believers Ali Ibn Abi Talib…”

(Ibn Taymiyyah, Al-Aqeedah Al-Wasitiyyah, Chapter 4)

Ibn Taymiyyah said further:


“The best men of this Ummah after its Prophet are: Abu Bakr; then Umar; third: Uthman; and fourth: Ali Ibn Abi Talib (may Allah be pleased with them all).”

(Ibn Taymiyyah, Al-Aqeedah Al-Wasitiyyah, Chapter 4)

In regards to the Prophetic Household, Ibn Taymiyyah said:
 

“The Ahlus Sunnah should love the Prophet’s family, give them support, and honor the Prophet’s will in regards to them, as he said at Ghadir Khumm: ‘I ask you by Allah to take care of my family; I ask you by Allah to take care of my family.’”

(Ibn Taymiyyah, Al-Aqeedah Al-Wasitiyyah, Chapter 4)

Explaining the Sunni creed, Shaykh al-Islam said:
 

“They (Ahlus Sunnah) love the people of the household of the Messenger of Allah; they regard them with love and loyalty, and they heed the command of the Messenger of Allah concerning them…but they reject the way of the (Shia) Rafidhis who hate the Sahabah and slander them, and they reject the way of the Nasibis who insult Ahlel Bayt in words and deed.”

(Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmoo al-Fatawa, 3/154)

Ibn Taymiyyah was so aggrieved by the death of Husayn at Kerbala, that he said the following:


“May Allah curse his killers, and whoever was glad with his murder!”

(Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmoo al-Fatawa, Vol.4, pp.403-404)

 

 

Note: Ibn Taymiyyah did not mention any names, as it is not the practice of the Sunnis to revile the dead by name or person, but rather Ibn Taymiyyah stated a conditional and general statement, i.e. whoever killed Husayn ibn Ali is to be cursed.

 

 

So in view of the above statements it is very clear that Ibn taymiyyah rahimahullah was NOT a nasibi. Its a false propaganda against the great salafi scholar.

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“The best men of this Ummah after its Prophet are: Abu Bakr; then Umar; third: Uthman; and fourth: Ali Ibn Abi Talib (may Allah be pleased with them all).”

 

Ali (as) is head and shoulders above the rest, do you know what Ahmed ibn Hanbal said who is supposedly Ibn Taymiyyah's master,

 

His son narrates "There is not a single companion more virtuous than Ali in the eyes of the Prophet"

 

 

 

“The Ahlus Sunnah should love the Prophet’s family, give them support, and honor the Prophet’s will in regards to them, as he said at Ghadir Khumm: ‘I ask you by Allah to take care of my family; I ask you by Allah to take care of my family.’”

 

The Nasibi ibn Taymiyyah has falsely narrated the hadith which is actually '...If you adhere to them you will never go astray',

 

 

“May Allah curse his killers, and whoever was glad with his murder!”

 

What does ibn Taymiyyah himself say about Imam Hussain (as) ?

 

'Mukhtar was more evil than Umar ibn Sa'ad'

 

Do you know who Mukhtar (ra) was? He avenged the murder of Imam Hussain (as) . Do you know who Umar ibn Sa'ad (la'een) was? The killer of Imam Hussain (as) . 

 

Do you know what else he said? 'Ali's killer was a pious worshipper'.

 

Yeah, you heard.

 

Now answer this one directly, Ibn Taymiyyah said 'The soldiers of Muawiyah are not blamable (for cursing Ali)

 

He also said 'Fatimah behaved like a hypocrite'. You believe that????

 

If that isn't nasb I don't know what is...

 

He was an Umawi, a nasibi, a liar and a munafiq.

Edited by Thaqalyn
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Ali (as) is head and shoulders above the rest, do you know what Ahmed ibn Hanbal said who is supposedly Ibn Taymiyyah's master,

 

Ibn Hanbal wrote his book Musnad ibn hanbal in accordance with the names of  "Ashara mubashara" The ten who were promised paradise. The first one is Abu Bakr ra

 

 

His son narrates "There is not a single companion more virtuous than Ali in the eyes of the Prophet"

 

 

Which son? Did his son made this decision on the basis of a hadith? If yes than can u provide reference? If not than spare me ur ignorance.

 

 

 

The Nasibi ibn Taymiyyah has falsely narrated the hadith which is actually '...If you adhere to them you will never go astray',

 

Ya kazaab! Watch ur filthy mouth 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What does ibn Taymiyyah himself say about Imam Hussain (as) ?

 

 

 

My previous post tells it all.

 

 

 

 

Do you know what else he said? 'Ali's killer was a pious worshipper'.

 

So what? pious worshippers could be killers. Shimar used to pray alot. What has that to do with worship?

 

 

Now answer this one directly, Ibn Taymiyyah said 'The soldiers of Muawiyah are not blamable (for cursing Ali)

 

He also said 'Fatimah behaved like a hypocrite'. You believe that????

 

 

He would have never said that...

 

If that isn't nasb I don't know what is...

 

 

SInce when did u care about what others are? 

 

He was an Umawi, a nasibi, a liar and a munafiq.

 

No, you are a sabaite, a rafidhi liar & a looser

 

Edited by Invoker
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Just answer this if you don't fear embarrassment, now come on, spit it out,

 

Ibn Taymiyyah wrote, with his own pen, 

 

'Muawiyah's soldiers cannot be blamed for cursing Ali' 

 

You agree?

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Just answer this if you don't fear embarrassment, now come on, spit it out,

 

Ibn Taymiyyah wrote, with his own pen, 

 

'Muawiyah's soldiers cannot be blamed for cursing Ali' 

 

You agree?

 

 

No one cursed Ali... than or now... cursing was started by Abdullah ibn saba & his followers still follow his sunnah today. We find NO sunni who follows the sunnah of Muawiya (cursing Ali)... why?? because it was never practiced.

 

 

Muawiyah was made controversial when the Abbasid's literature from Iran & Iraq was inscribed in the books of hadith (both sunni & shia). Luckily we find NO sunni OR the one u call wahabis who curse Ali & his family.  Wo where did they all go? hmm? 

 

But we see that the followers of Ibn saba are openly cursing the sacred personalities of Islam. 

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Ibn Taymiyyah said it so who the hell do you think you are denying it?

 

Do you agree with him or not? 

 

Stop running away, do you agree with Sheikh ul Islam or not?

 

And we originated from Ghadir khum when the Prophet (pbuh) ordered us to follow Allah's book and his progeny.

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I would really appreciate if a Sunni (preferably muslim720) could give me their opinion on this, and what is the reasoning for this statement?

 

 

 

Why do you want my opinion on this?  I am neither an aalim nor someone who is learned in Islamic sciences.

 

I mean, what is the world coming to?  Those who love to curse others are pointing fingers at others for supposedly cursing Imam Ali [ra].

 

Cursing Imam Ali [ra], or any other Companion [ra] for that matter, has double the repercussion:

1.  Puts you at odds with Rasulullah [saw].  He never ordered anyone to curse any of his Companions [ra].  Sure, find another obscure narration for us to prove your point but will your sources aid you on that Day?

 

2.  Shows your lack of manners.  So much for "we have the manners of Ahlul Bayt [ra]" and then you turn around and say, "but Ahlul Bayt [ra] urged us to curse fulan and fulan".  You try to wash your sins off in the fountain of Ahlul Bayt [ra].....the fountain of knowledge that could never condone such a thing.

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I'll ask you the question as well.


 


Ibn Taymiyyah said it so who the hell do you think you are denying it?


 


Do you agree with him or not? 


 


Stop running away, do you agree with Sheikh ul Islam or not?


 


And we originated from Ghadir khum when the Prophet  (pbuh) ordered us to follow Allah's book and his progeny.


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And what's up with your generalizing? The majority of us don't curse except for people like Yazid and Umar ibn Sa'ad.

 

And it's not just the Shia who say 'la'een' about Yazeed, look at Adnan Ibrahim here, an honest Sunni speaker, very popular and I do find his speeches interesting, I recommend him for you, he's far better than Uthman Khamis, al Uraifi and the other wahabis...

 

 

And with regard to your questioning about Ahmed ibn Hanbal's opinion about the most virtuous companion,

 

Ahmed ibn Hanbal said: No one among the Companions of the Messenger of Allah (saw) had more virtues than Ali ibn Abi Talib.

al Mustadrak, al Hakim, vol 3 p 107

al Manaqib, al Khawarizmi, p 3 and 9

Tarikh, Suyuti, p 168

al Sawaiq al Muhriqah, Ibn Hajar, p 72

Tarikh, Ibn Asakir, vol 3 p 63

Shawahid at Tanzil, al Haskani al Hanafi, vol 1 p 19

Qadi Ismail, al-Nasa'i and Abu Ali al-Naisaburi said: No Companion had as many virtues attributed to him as Ali.

al Riyadh al Nazarah, Tabari, vol 2 p 282

al Sawaiq al Muhriqah, p 118, 72

 

 

 

 

And as Imam Ali (as) said in his famous sermon 'And how strange? What had I to do with this election (of Uthman)?, where was there even any doubt towards me with the first (Abu Bakr)!'

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Just answer this if you don't fear embarrassment, now come on, spit it out,

 

Ibn Taymiyyah wrote, with his own pen, 

 

'Muawiyah's soldiers cannot be blamed for cursing Ali' 

 

You agree?

 

 

Assuming what you are saying is true, do you know that Ibn Taymiyyah also wrote, "There are two opinions as to whether Ali's conversion to Islam released him from kufr or not"  (Minhaj us Sunnah, Volume 8, page 205)

 

Please tell us how you understand this quotation.  Is this further proof of Ibn Taymiyyah being a "Nasibi"?

 

 

 

And what's up with your generalizing? The majority of us don't curse except for people like Yazid and Umar ibn Sa'ad.

 

 

You can only convince those who were born yesterday.

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Stop running, Ibn Taymiyyah wrote it with his own pen, yes or no, simple as that.

 

And I thought you said that you prayed behind a Shia Sheikh at a mosque. Did you see cursing? I implore you by Allah, did you see cursing?

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Ibn Taymiyyah said it so who the hell do you think you are denying it?

 

Its my personal opinion. It has nothing to do with Ibn Taymmiya. Your grand ayatollah Khamanei issued fatwas declaring cursing & tatbir haram. Do u shias give a damn? Ayatollah fadhlullah declared that the marriage of Umar ibn khattab & Umme kulthum bint Ali is true.. yet majority of the shias slander him for this verdict.

 

Do you agree with him or not? 

 

No one cursed Ali & No one curses Ali... The two groups of Muslim did fought each other due to a misunderstanding. Your 2nd Imam took thousands of Dinars annually from muawiya  for not revolting against him. Many shias criticize him for that... do them become nasibis too?

 

Stop running away, do you agree with Sheikh ul Islam or not?

 

U have some serious issues. 

 

And we originated from Ghadir khum when the Prophet (pbuh) ordered us to follow Allah's book and his progeny.

 

No, u originated as a result of a conspiracy designed by Abdullah ibn saba. End of the story!

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1.  Stop running, Ibn Taymiyyah wrote it with his own pen, yes or no, simple as that.

 

2.  And I thought you said that you prayed behind a Shia Sheikh at a mosque. Did you see cursing? I implore you by Allah, did you see cursing?

 

 

1.  Ibn Taymiyyah also wrote, with his own pen, what I shared with you (regarding Imam Ali [ra]).  Do you believe it as is?  Yes or no?  I want to gauge - no, I have gauged your understanding and grasp on things, I only wish to expose it for others.

 

2.  I saw and heard cursing.  Numerous times!  And I have also heard some preposterous comments (in general) that stands against Islam which I do not propagate because I no longer wish to cause division.

 

However, one masjid that I am heavily involved with (one of the Shia mosques), the imam there - NOW - refrains from bringing up Shia-Sunni discussions (although they are very active in such talks) because one time I was sitting with another brother and he asked me a few things.  I was like, "you are the imam of this masjid and your knowledge exceeds mine but all your questions are matters of fiqh.  I have no problems with the fiqh that you choose to follow provided you do not have corrupted aqeedah.  And I am only here since this is the House of Allah [swt] and I thought by me coming here, we can be an ummah like we used to be, not individual groups with our own agendas and 'holier than thou' attitude."

 

Now, he loves me like his own son.  He even offered me 20 minutes this past Muharram to speak on the tragedy of Karbala (from a Sunni standpoint).  I felt honored but I politely refused since I am not learned.

 

Sorry for the long post......I am sure you do not care and I totally understand.

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I'm using my phone and don't know how to quote properly, so please forgive me for not doing it properly

"Why do you want my opinion on this? I am neither an aalim nor someone who is learned in Islamic sciences."

Don't take it so harshly, I was under the impression that you were the most learned Sunni here and just wanted your opinion

I mean, what is the world coming to? Those who love to curse others are pointing fingers at others for supposedly cursing Imam Ali [ra]."

The quote of ibn Taymiyyah doesn't say that nor did I even think it. However, what he does say is that the cursing of Imam Ali (as) is not as bad as cursing any of the other three khuulafaa.

"1. Puts you at odds with Rasulullah [saw]. He never ordered anyone to curse any of his Companions [ra]. Sure, find another obscure narration for us to prove your point but will your sources aid you on that Day?"

You really need to lighten up, not everyone is your enemy. Ibn taymiyyahs statement doesn't say to curse imam Ali (asws) but it implies that people have excuses to

"2. Shows your lack of manners. So much for "we have the manners of Ahlul Bayt [ra]" and then you turn around and say, "but Ahlul Bayt [ra] urged us to curse fulan and fulan". You try to wash your sins off in the fountain of Ahlul Bayt [ra].....the fountain of knowledge that could never condone such a thing."

Forgive me for trying to be honest in my research and trying to get a view from Sunnis. Won't happen again

"Assuming what you are saying is true, do you know that Ibn Taymiyyah also wrote, "There are two opinions as to whether Ali's conversion to Islam released him from kufr or not" (Minhaj us Sunnah, Volume 8, page 205)"

If ibn Taymiyyah was of this opinion then yes, he is a nasibi however,if he was merely quoting the other opinion then he's at no fault whatsoever.

"You can only convince those who were born yesterday"

Probably the only statement in both your posts I agree with

And also jazakallah bro Thaqalayn for your help

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Invoker-

 

1. Ok, that is your opinion, so yes or no? Agree or not?

 

2. I agree with Ayatollah Ali Khaminei 100% as do most of us.

 

3. I agree Sayyed Hussain Fadhlallah, but if you look at the narrations you'll see that Ibn al Khattab pressured Amir al Mu'mineen into allowing the marriage.

 

4. No, I don't, your just consistently running away from the killer question.

 

5. Answer this one then, if you say it was Ibn Saba', directly answer this question as you and Muslim720 have picked up a habit of distorting and deleting. Did the great sahabi, one of the first Muslims, Ammãr ibn Yãsir follow ibn Saba' when he rejected, yes, rejected, Abu Bakr?

 

1.  Ibn Taymiyyah also wrote, with his own pen, what I shared with you (regarding Imam Ali [ra]).  Do you believe it as is?  Yes or no?  I want to gauge - no, I have gauged your understanding and grasp on things, I only wish to expose it for others.

 

 

lol nice exposing it merely shows that Ibn Taymiyyah contradicted himself 24/7.

 

 

2.  I saw and heard cursing.  Numerous times!  And I have also heard some preposterous comments (in general) that stands against Islam which I do not propagate because I no longer wish to cause division.

 

 

Ok you continue listening to Yasir Habib and taking that as the whole Shia population. Shall I tell you what I'll do? I'll take the Mufti of Saudi Arabia and say that all Sunnis say Yazid was right and Hussain (as) was wrong. That fair? Hm? don't ever generalize, there are narrations from both our books and your books saying it is of the worst of sins.

 

 

 

However, one masjid that I am heavily involved with (one of the Shia mosques), the imam there - NOW - refrains from bringing up Shia-Sunni discussions (although they are very active in such talks) because one time I was sitting with another brother and he asked me a few things.  I was like, "you are the imam of this masjid and your knowledge exceeds mine but all your questions are matters of fiqh.  I have no problems with the fiqh that you choose to follow provided you do not have corrupted aqeedah.  And I am only here since this is the House of Allah [swt] and I thought by me coming here, we can be an ummah like we used to be, not individual groups with our own agendas and 'holier than thou' attitude."

 

Now, he loves me like his own son.  He even offered me 20 minutes this past Muharram to speak on the tragedy of Karbala (from a Sunni standpoint).  I felt honored but I politely refused since I am not learned.

 

Jazak Allah khair! lighten up and take that as your image of the Shia. 

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The quote of ibn Taymiyyah doesn't say that nor did I even think it. However, what he does say is that the cursing of Imam Ali (as) is not as bad as cursing any of the other three khuulafaa.

 

 

Where did u read this? can u provide us with a scanned reference? the whole page i would say...

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1.  Forgive me for trying to be honest in my research and trying to get a view from Sunnis. Won't happen again

2.  If ibn Taymiyyah was of this opinion then yes, he is a nasibi however,if he was merely quoting the other opinion then he's at no fault whatsoever.

 

 

 

1.  Forgive me if I was harsh but it was not directed at you, personally.  

 

2.  You are right.  Ibn Taymiyyah was answering Al-Hilli's argument that the first three Caliphs [ra] were idolaters before their conversion while Imam Ali [ra] was muwahid from his childhood.  Ibn Taymiyyah only applied two fiqh opinions on Imam Ali's [ra] conversion for the sake of answering Shias, not necessarily putting forth his own opinion.

1.  lol nice exposing it merely shows that Ibn Taymiyyah contradicted himself 24/7.

 

2.  Jazak Allah khair! lighten up and take that as your image of the Shia. 

 

 

1.  If I ask you your own position in a 24-hour period, I bet you would not be able to provide us an accurate report of it.  Yet you can comment on the position of someone who lived centuries before you and with conviction, claim that he contradicted himself 24/7 for all the days of his life.  

 

Learn to respect men of knowledge.  They are not infallible.  Do not call Ibn Taymiyyah a "Nasibi" or write Hurr Al-Amili off (since his judgment compromises your argument, therefore ego).

 

2.  I deal with enough Shias to realize that you - and others like you on this forum - are bad representation of Shias.  And when I am around those who have never shared a few moments of their lives with Shias, I have to say, "no brother, you do not understand......they are not all like that."

 

I have said this before (here in ShiaChat).  I know Shias that I am jealous of since their knowledge and piety exceed mine.

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Invoker-

 

1. Ok, that is your opinion, so yes or no? Agree or not?

 

I will only answer on this issue once i have read the his statement on a reliable evidence.

 

2. I agree with Ayatollah Ali Khaminei 100% as do most of us.

 

Agreed but not followed... too bad

 

3. I agree Sayyed Hussain Fadhlallah, but if you look at the narrations you'll see that Ibn al Khattab pressured Amir al Mu'mineen into allowing the marriage.

 

Why is that ur first Imam was always under pressure? He didnt revolt against Abu Bakr on the issue of fadak (His wife was humiliated very badly & suprisingly he didnt took fadak back during his khilafa... why?), He didnt teach Umar ibn khattab a lesson for murdering his wife & wasting the child in the womb....why? How can Ali ibn Ali Talib let that happen to his family? Was the Lion of humans always oppressed?

 

4. No, I don't, your just consistently running away from the killer question.

 

 

No, i am not! u r just getting out of line

 

5. Answer this one then, if you say it was Ibn Saba', directly answer this question as you and Muslim720 have picked up a habit of distorting and deleting. Did the great sahabi, one of the first Muslims, Ammãr ibn Yãsir follow ibn Saba' when he rejected, yes, rejected, Abu Bakr?

 

Ali ibn Abi talib accepted Abu bakr's khilafah after a few months & so did Ammar ibn yasir. i hope that answers ur question. I tend to keep things simple & im pretty happy with that.

 

 

Invoker please stop posting, you're derailing the thread

 

 

No mr twelver i am asking the about the authenticity of the source u have mentioned... If u have really read it than show it. That book has not been translated in english. So where did u read it?

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volume 4 pg 46 of Ibn Taymiyyahs book Minhaj al Sunnah, is the source of Ibn Taymiyyah's nasb Invoker- learn to read arabic if you can't find an english version but I can provide you with an Arabic one.

 

 

I have said this before (here in ShiaChat).  I know Shias that I am jealous of since their knowledge and piety exceed mine.

 

We can see that...

 

And how dare Ibn Taymiyah say that Amir al Mu'mineen was not muwahhid from childhood when he was brought up between the hands of the Prophet ?

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"Its my personal opinion. It has nothing to do with Ibn Taymmiya. Your grand ayatollah Khamanei issued fatwas declaring cursing & tatbir haram.

Do u shias give a damn?"

The majority of scholars are under the impression that tutbeer is haram, but, their are others who allow it like Ayatollah Khorasani. As for cursing, the same goes, sayed Ali's ijtihad is only compulsory on those who do his taqleed (like myself), anyone who chooses to follow another marja' is not obliged to refrain from la'nah.

"Ayatollah fadhlullah declared that the marriage of Umar ibn khattab & Umme kulthum bint Ali is true.. yet majority of the shias slander him for this verdict."

I really, really doubt this. A lot of lies have been attributed to this great sayed so I'd love for you to forward your proof.

Shia scholars have four opinions on this:

1) some have denied the existence of such a personality (umm Kulthum) such as Raziuddin Hilli, Allamah Muqarrum, Allamah Baqir Sharif Najafi etc.

2)others such as sheikh mufeed consider the dispute of traditional reports in marriage to be clear refutations of this claim

3) others have said that this marriage has only taken place because of umars threats.

4) and this is the most correct view is that Umar did indeed marry an umm Kulthum however, she was the daughter of Abu Bakr, sister of Muhammad (ra) ibn Abu Bakr rather than blood daughter of imam Ali (as). Have a look at the following proofs:

"Two sisters of Aisha are mentioned... It was previously mentioned in asmaur Rijal in the fourth chapter that these two sisters, Asma, bint Abu Bakr and Umm Kulthuum bint Abu Bakr and SHE WAS THE SAME UMM KULTHUUM, WHOM UMAR MARRIED"

Tadhibul Asma wal lughat volume 2 pg 630 number 1224

These are the words of al nawawi, in his commentary on sahih Muslim and many Shia scholars agree with him.

For an example, refer to sharh ahqaqul haqq wa azhaqul batil volume 30 pg 315

Also imam Ali's (as) daughters were reserved for his brother Jafars children

"Umar ibn Khattab sought from Ali (as) the hand of his daughter, Umm Kulthuum. Ali (as) replied: I have prohibited my daughters from marrying anyone else other than the sons of Jafar"

Sunan saeed bin mansur volume 1 pg 172 Hadith no. 520

"No mr twelver i am asking the about the authenticity of the source u have mentioned... If u have really read it than show it. That book has not been translated in english. So where did u read it?"

And I got it from a third party, I wanted to verify its authenticity and get an understanding of its meaning before superman (invoker) got involved and made it out as if I'm trying to lie against Sunnis.

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And how dare Ibn Taymiyah say that Amir al Mu'mineen was not muwahhid from childhood when he was brought up between the hands of the Prophet ?

 

 

This is almost like the saying we have in Afghanistan, "zer-e kala-e khar, Yaseen khaandan" which translates to "reciting Yaseen (Surah Yaseen....or Qur'an) by the head of a donkey."  No matter how much you recite, a donkey will forever remain one.

 

I apologize but that is the first thing that came to my mind when I read your comment especially after I clearly explained why the statement was made.

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volume 4 pg 46 of Ibn Taymiyyahs book Minhaj al Sunnah, is the source of Ibn Taymiyyah's nasb 

 

 

OMG!! what an achievement! thank you for showing how 300.jpg you are.... 

 

 Invoker- learn to read arabic 

 

 

From u? who doesnt even know the meaning of the arabic word "wa hum"... I dont think so... However i will be available on skype after 15th of June... Contact me if u need any help on arabic.

 

 if you can't find an english version but I can provide you with an Arabic one.

 

 

 

 

Yes, why not.. that is what i have been asking... do u know in how many volumes the first edition was published?

Edited by Haji 2003
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Ah I see my error, jazak Allah, but no excuses like 'I was in a rush sorry' ,errrrr, someone I know pretty well on this forum said that when we were discussing the turbah haha.

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Ah I see my error, jazak Allah, but no excuses like 'I was in a rush sorry' ,errrrr, someone I know pretty well on this forum said that when we were discussing the turbah haha.

 

Yet again, we see that you would rather pretend to not have come last (so as to not hurt your own ego).  By hook or crook, you have to find something to fall back upon and say, "at least I am not that bad."  I am beginning to think if you suffer from little man syndrome which is why I do not hold your blunders against you like the times you tried to pass Shia scholars and books as Sunni ones.

 

If things get too heavy, Google "Do Not Jump."  You might find some help.

Edited by muslim720
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Yet again, we see that you would rather pretend to not have come last (so as to not hurt your own ego).  By hook or crook, you have to find something to fall back upon and say, "at least I am not that bad."  I am beginning to think if you suffer from little man syndrome which is why I do not hold your blunders against you like the times you tried to pass Shia scholars and books as Sunni ones.

 

Good for you, now will you please open up on Ibn Taymiyyah's statement 

 

'Muawiyahs soldiers aren't blamable for cursing Ali'

 

i've told you enough times to stop running.

Edited by Thaqalyn
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I really, really doubt this. A lot of lies have been attributed to this great sayed so I'd love for you to forward your proof.

 

 

"Two sisters of Aisha are mentioned... It was previously mentioned in asmaur Rijal in the fourth chapter that these two sisters, Asma, bint Abu Bakr and Umm Kulthuum bint Abu Bakr and SHE WAS THE SAME UMM KULTHUUM, WHOM UMAR MARRIED"

Tadhibul Asma wal lughat volume 2 pg 630 number 1224

These are the words of al nawawi, in his commentary on sahih Muslim and many Shia scholars agree with him.

For an example, refer to sharh ahqaqul haqq wa azhaqul batil volume 30 pg 315

Also imam Ali's (as) daughters were reserved for his brother Jafars children

"Umar ibn Khattab sought from Ali (as) the hand of his daughter, Umm Kulthuum. Ali (as) replied: I have prohibited my daughters from marrying anyone else other than the sons of Jafar"

Sunan saeed bin mansur volume 1 pg 172 Hadith no. 520

And I got it from a third party, I wanted to verify its authenticity and get an understanding of its meaning before superman (invoker) got involved and made it out as if I'm trying to lie against Sunnis.

 

 

 

Umar%2527s+Marriage+with+Umm+Kulthoom_Fa

 

 

 

 

& now Al-Khoei

 

 

 

Umar%2527s+Marriage+with+Umm+Kulthoom_Kh

 

 

 

 

 

Now as far as the marriage is concerned your own books of hadith have something to say about it too so lets take a look at them shall we?

 

 

From Sulaymaan bin Khaalid he said: “I asked Abaa `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) about a woman whose husband dies, where should she do her `iddah, in the house of her husband, or wherever she wants? He (عليه السلام) said: “Yes, wherever she wants”, then he (عليه السلام) said: “That `Alee (عليه السلام) brought Umm Kulthoom to his home when she became free, when `Umar died”

 

Al-Kaafi, vol. 6, pg. 115, hadeeth # 1

 

 Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq (Reliable) 

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 21, pg. 197

 

 

 

 

From Al-QadaaH from Ja`far (Al-Saadiq) (عليه السلام) from his father (عليه السلام) He said: “Umm Kulthoom, daughter of `Alee (عليه السلام), and her son Zayd bin `Umar bin Al-KhaTTaab died at the same time. They did not know who passed away before, so they did not inherit from one another, and they prayed (the funeral prayer) upon them together”

 

Al-Toosi, Tahdheeb Al-aHkaam, vol. 9, ch. 36, pg. 362, hadeeth # 15

 

Look at the name of the son of Umm Kulthoom, the Imaam has said, “her (Umm Kulthoom) son, Zayd son of `Umar bin Al-KhaTTaab”. This is another proof to show that the marriage had indeed taken place.

 

 

 

And I got it from a third party, I wanted to verify its authenticity and get an understanding of its meaning before superman (invoker) got involved and made it out as if I'm trying to lie against Sunnis.

 

 

I m not trolling at ur reference... i m just too curious. So when u have it just share it.

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