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In the Name of God بسم الله

Who Are Nuseri/alawi And Aghakhani/ismaili ?


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Are They Shia ?

Nuseri = Alawi = Shia ?

Aghakhani = Ismaili = Shia ?

According to Wahabism :

Wahabis Branches are : Deobandi, Ahlul Hadeeth (so-called Slafi), Pervaizi and Nuturi and etc

Nuseri, Alawi, Agha Khani, Ismaili , all are Shia and Kafir/Infidel.

In Facebook, Most Shia hate believe Nuseri/Alawi, and they say they are Infidel.

In Facebook Shia say, According to Nuseri/ Alawis Ali (.r.a) is God.

Most people consider , Agha khani are Ismailis and they consider Agha Khan a Prophet or God, who is Christian .

According to Ahlul Sunnah :

Sunni are well known as Sufi outside South Asia and Barailwi /Barailvi Inside South Asia.Barelvi

name is given to Ahlul Sunnah by Wahabis.

Shia who  abuse / curse any of Companions of Mohammad  (Sahaba), is Kafir/Infidel while other are Muslim but Ignorant.

I am Sunni and My Question Is:

 Alawi are Nuseri ?

Alawi are Shia ?

Nuseri are Shia ?

Agha Khani are Ismailis ?

Agha Khani are Shia ?

Ismaili are Shia ?

Wahabi (Deobandi, Salafi) are not Sunni, but they are using Ahlul Sunnah Name,

Are Alawi, Ismaili, Nuseri, Agha Khani doing Same Drama ?

Edited by Hameedeh
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MODS: move this thread somewhere else- it's not a Shia/Sunni debate.
On 5/18/2014 at 8:37 AM, Tiger said:

Nuseri = Alawi = Shia ?

No, they're mushriks

On 5/18/2014 at 8:37 AM, Tiger said:

Shia and Kafir/Infidel.

According to wahabis, yes. According to most Sunnis, no.

On 5/18/2014 at 8:37 AM, Tiger said:

Agha Khani are Ismailis ?

Yes.

On 5/18/2014 at 8:37 AM, Tiger said:

Agha Khani are Shia ?

They like to think so but they're not.

On 5/18/2014 at 8:37 AM, Tiger said:

Wahabi (Deobandi, Salafi) are not Sunni, but they are using Ahlul Sunnah Name,

Are Alawi, Ismaili, Nuseri, Agha Khani doing Same Drama ?

Correct.

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On 5/18/2014 at 11:56 AM, Tiger said:

Thanks to All.

I hope more people will give more info...

Feel free to ask- don't take things from those who lie about us- take it from us.

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Nusayri is an offensive word for Alawi. Alawi are an ethno-religious group. The majority are regular 12er Shia. Minorities include Sunnis (like Bashar al-Assad), Secularists (like Bashar al-Asad), Christians, and esoteric "Muslims". They are most famously known as those that hold ghulaat beliefs. However, those are a minority now a days.

Aga Khani are Nizari Ismailis. Yes, they are Shia. It was only in the last few generations of Nizari Imams that 12er Shias started making takfeer of everyone that disagrees with them.

Ismailis = Shia

Alawi = Depeends; mostly Shia but you can't assume.

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On 5/18/2014 at 5:59 PM, Agora said:

Nusayri is an offensive word for Alawi. Alawi are an ethno-religious group. 

They're called that because ibn Nusayr founded the group.

On 5/18/2014 at 5:59 PM, Agora said:

Nusayri is an offensive word for Alawi. Alawi are an ethno-religious group. The majority are regular 12er Shia. Minorities include Sunnis (like Bashar al-Assad), Secularists (like Bashar al-Asad), Christians, and esoteric "Muslims". They are most famously known as those that hold ghulaat beliefs. However, those are a minority now a days.

'Alawis' are worshippers of Imam Ali (as) . They are mushrikeen.

On 5/18/2014 at 5:59 PM, Agora said:

Ismailis = Shia

Nope, read up on their modern day beliefs they've gone mental.

On 5/18/2014 at 5:59 PM, Agora said:

Ismailis = Shia

Alawi = Depeends; mostly Shia but you can't assume.

No, they're not. 

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  • 1 month later...
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I have a question to our 12er brothers.

 

Our beloved Prophet said He would leave behind two weighty things and whoever holds on to them, shall not go astry and will remain on stright path [sirat-ul-mustaqim].

 

 

Question: I would you to clarify what are the two weighty things beloved Prophet was referring to? And if 12ers are holding to them?

 

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Salam. Alawites and Nusayris don't have such beliefs. 15-20 % of Turks are Alewites and I know many personally and their beliefs. Nusayris are basically Arab Alewites and Baktashis are basically Turkish-Kurdish Alewites. And I don't personally know Nusayris and their beliefs, so I wouldn't judge people based on rumors. And I need to note that rumors against shias and alewites (what they believe in and what they do) are usually false. Coming from a sunni origin, the first rumor I heard about Alewites, was at the age of 6, yes at the age of 6, when our sunni imam in the mosque, instead of teaching us Quran, told us that "Alewites gather in Cemevis (something like Husayniyyahs but latmiyats are sang along with musical instruments) and after the mourning they turn off the lights and have sex with each other". The rumors against shia/alewite Muslims is this sickening! Just search about what "Mum Söndü" lie is, if you don't believe me. People with sick thoughts make up things in their minds and accuse noble people. And they don't refrain from filling pure brains and hearts with these lies. So, again, speaking about Kurdish and Turkish Alewites, nothing you hear about Alewites is true, except the true fact that most of them are not practicing (e.g. not praying or fasting). And it is basically because of the persecutions by Ottomans against them. When Ottomans closed their Takkas (religiously gathering places), they did not find the opportunity to transmit their religious knowledge and practices. Thus it became a cultural thing rather than a shia islamic belief. So, alewites are shia muslims, believing in God, hereafter, prophethood and imamah yet with some sufi inclinations and most of them are not practicing and when they practice, they act by sunni madhabs because they are not taught jafari fiqh, And I am guessing same thing goes for Nusayris. However, as I said earlier, because unlike sunni muslims, shia muslims have always questioned history (of kings etc.) and kings-sheikhs of today, they have always been targeted. But the worst weapon used against them is disinformation. And it is sad to see even shias are disinformed against each other. I hope we do not judge people over what we hear.

"What distance is between the right and the falsehood?" they asked.
 
"Four fingers," the Imam Hasan (a.s) replied. "What you see with your own eye is the right. You may hear a lot of falsehoods with your ear."

--

And, salam brother tolkedo. Welcome to the forum. I hope you have a great time here. Before we study this issue together inshaAllah whether on this thread or in a new one, you might like to check the tradition of "the two weighty things" (Hadith al-Thaqalayn) here:

http://www.al-islam.org/nutshell/files/family.pdf

It is designed for printing on two sides of a sheet in order to fold it later. So, if you read, you need to read it in this order:

1st page right side,

2nd page left side, 

2nd page right side,

1st page left side.

Good luck with your studies. ma salam

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Hamza - thank you for this brief explanation.

Let me ask you a follow up question.

During Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), when someone wanted to give his bayiah to the Prophet (PBUH), then he would go to Him and take His hand for bayiah. In today's day and age, if someone wants to become part of Islam, who's hand should he take? Is it this person's fault that he was not born during the time of the Prophet (PBUH)? 

Now, if you say any mawlawi or mullah's hand for bayiah, then are they truly Hujjat of the Prophet?

Thank you.

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Nusayri and Alawi are not the same nor is Nusayri some negative term used to denote Alawism.

This stupified and dumbed-down neo-Salafist and Wahhabi logic has found its way into the mainstream media.

Alawis are Shi'a and Muslims but with views that are Enheraf.

Nusayri are not Shi'a nor Muslims for most Twelver scholars.

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Brother toledo, one of the pillars of faith in shia islam (as a requirement of the belief in God) is justice. Meaning that God is just. And that people came at different ages should not make any injustice to the human beings in the aspects of their gaining nearness to God and reaching higher levels. And unlike sunnis, shia muslims do not have the supposition that, the best of the people lived in one time and the rest has to be lower in level. Such a thing would be against the justice of God. And it is against the narrations even in their books. Please see the thread here:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235022746-momins-during-the-end-of-times/?p=2704678

So, as you see in that thread, being and living in the last age is no fault, rather it is a privilege, of course, as you said, if we pay allegiance, subscribe to and follow the perfect leader. Thus, there still has to be a concept, an authority which continues to perform the duties of the Prophets. And that is imamah in shia islam. So, paying allegiance to the Imam of today, is no different in rank than the companions' paying allegiance to the Prophet. This is the requirement of divine justice, that wilayah represents and performs every duty of the nabis. And paying allegiance to the Waliyy Amr'il-Muslimin, is no different than the companions' paying allegiance to the Prophet. And, the Quranic verses on divine justice, Ulul-Amr (4:59) and Wilayah (5:55), and other verses denote to this fact. But since, the shia muslims believe that the absolute imam of the time (Mahdi) is in occultation, and both sunni and shia schools agree that he is not among us in physical sense yet, Aql/Reasoning and Naql/Narrations necessitate that we pay allegiance, subscribe to and follow some person or a commitee who can represent him, and that is when Wilayat al-Faqih concept comes into play. Blessed be Imam Khomeini (r.a.) for reviving it. So, it is my personal belief that Muslims should pay allegiance to the Naib al-Mahdi; Imam Ali Khamenei; through some Marja, Muqayyad Imam, Faqih, Sheikh, Molana, Hoja, etc. who they know to be faithful to him (Imam Khamenei) and the global islamic revolution.

My beliefs might sound extreme. But it is what it is. Please share your thoughts on the necessities of divine justice, imamah and wilayat al-faqih, if you already studied them. If not, I can share some good sources to study them. Blessings brother. ma salam :)

On 7/15/2014 at 7:08 PM, Gainzz said:

Nusayri are not Shi'a nor Muslims for most Twelver scholars..

Can you state the names of "most twelver scholars" please?

And I think, we should refer to the Nusayris themselves and to the scholars who really observed them personally. And not those who judge them over what they hear. What I mean is, we should refer to Syrian-Lebanese scholars, who are aware of them and their beliefs for that. The scholars like Fadlallahs, Sadrs, etc,

And quoting:

Quote

Nusayri Alawites have always described themselves as being Twelver Shi'ite Muslims and have been recognized as such by the prominent Lebanese Shi'ite Muslim cleric Imam Musa al-Sadr. The Sunni Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini issued a fatwa recognising them as part of the Muslim community.

ma salam :)

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Brother Hamza - Thank you once again for you knowledge sharing and you have beautifully explained the concept of Imamiah and Ulul-Amr. This is certainly much appreciated. Thank you.
 
I do agree with you that Justice must be observed at every level, and people living during the era of the Prophet are not more chosen ones than we are at this day and age. So paying allegiance to the Imam [Wasi of the Prophet] would be equally as if given allegiance to the Prophet (pbuh) Himself. I absolutely agree with you brother up to this part.

However, I'd like to ask you another question: How would we know, or rather how would we determine [without over ruling justice] who would be authorized and qualified to take allegiance on behalf of the Prophet? Who would make that determination or decision? You mentioned "a person" or "a committee". Let's say hypothetically, that you are that 'person' selected by people who admire you [be it your relatives, family members, friends] or people who truly admire you. Now comes the question of qualification. How would we know if that 'person' or 'committee' is qualified to take allegiance on behalf of the Prophet (pbuh) or the Imam of the Time?

My reasoning is that the same HAND must exist amongst Ummah at all times; as it has always been during the Nabuwah, and after the Khatum-ul-Anbyia our beloved Prophet (pbuh), through His Ahl-e-Bayit, Maula Ali and this must continue till day [cycle] of Resurrection [Qaim-ul-Qiamah].

Ya Ali Madad

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According to Ismaili ( dawoodi bohras, aga khanis, and sub branches etc) beliefs, they believe that Imam Jafar as Sadiq A.S appointed his son Ismail as the imam, but seeeing that this is not true, they follow an innovation or a lie. Along with their other beliefs, it would seem to make them kafir but i cannot say for certain. Bohras are known alternatively as Seveners.

Aga Khanis are known as nizaris and even the bohras consider them non-muslim.

other things to point out:

bohras do not prostrate on the earth as the prophet and imams (PBUT) did

they follow bidah (their adhaan is altered and their salah is slightly different

they have 21 imams, with the last being in occultation.

They use man made items (rugs) to prostrate on similar if not exactly like sunnis.

they follow a da'ee (missionary) the bohras call him Dai'ul Mutlaq or Unrestricted Missionary. Their current dai is number 53, Mufaddal, with their Mohammad Burhannudin passing away this january.

I have heard allegations he is considered a Ilah-al-Ard or god on earth (astaghfirullah!) Take note that this is mostly hearsay.
They prohibit reading the quran with translations. this is effectively reading the quran blindly. they also say the dai's job is to interpret the quran.

this made me suspicious of them, until i found this forum. I am in a state of transition to the true beliefs.

this is coming from a former bohra

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