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enamulhaq

Are Sunnis Sinners?

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To my knowledge, if a Sunni knows the oppression done to the Ahlul bayt and sides with their oppressors, then he has committed a grave grave sin, for the Quran commands the Prophet to say:

 

ذَٰلِكَ الَّذِي يُبَشِّرُ اللَّهُ عِبَادَهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ ۗ قُل لَّا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَىٰ ۗ وَمَن يَقْتَرِفْ حَسَنَةً نَّزِدْ لَهُ فِيهَا حُسْنًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ شَكُورٌ
Sahih International
It is that of which Allah gives good tidings to His servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say, [O Muhammad], "I do not ask you for this message any payment [but] only good will through kinship." And whoever commits a good deed - We will increase for him good therein. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Appreciative.

 

Also, the Prophet SAWS said that whoever dies without knowing the Imam of his time has died the death of a person in jahiliyya. However, If a Sunni is ignorant of this then he is asked about his ignorance. His ignorance may or may not be excusable, in accordance with Allah's discretion, and Allah SWT is al-Rahmaan al-Raheem al-Ghafoor.

 

The basic answer to your question is yes, they are committing a sin by rejecting the rights of the Ahlul bayt and also the Imam of their time. But this sin is not necessarily one which condemns a Sunni to hell.

 

Also the phrasing of your question is not correct because there are sinners in all religions. Even Shias commit sins, but it's a question of which path is the best.

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There are narrations from the AhlulBayt (a.s) stating if you reject the Guardianship of Imam 'Ali (a.s.) and his sons (a.s) all your works/amal are not of any benefit.

 

Being what they call a "sunni" those who followed Abu bakr and his friends did not obey Allah swt and His Holy Prophet (sawas) as they chose and elected their own leader and alienated the rightful successor to the Prophet (sawas) Imam 'Ali (a.s.)

 

We Shi'ites believe the sunnis are upon a wrong path following bad people of the past who neglected the 2 Weighty things. (Quran + AhlulBayt).

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That's an interesting question..could be asked of other religions and sects, too. From what I know if a person knowingly turns away from the truth (and this includes the willfully ignorant) then they might be held accountable. Otherwise not.

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If as far as you know you are doing right, then you are not a sinner. All people in islam who dont pray are sinners, and all the sins you think to be small are the biggest sins... 

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If sunni don't have a least bit of hate for the ahle bait and their followers they will go to heaven. I read some hadith related to this. Nasibis are the sinners.

 

Q) If sunnis don't hate Ahlul Bayt a.s and  also don't follow their teachings, will they still go to Heaven??

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Yes. That's what I read.

ـ الإمامُ عليٌّ (عَلَيهِ الّسَلامُ): إنَّ لِلجَنّةِ ثَمانِيَةَ أبوابٍ: بابٌ يَدخُلُ مِنهُ النَّبِيّونَ والصِّدِّيقونَ ، وبابٌ يَدخُلُ مِنهُ الشُّهَداءُ والصّالِحونَ ، وخَمسَةُ أبْوابٍ يَدخُلُ مِنها شِيعَتُنا ومُحِبّونا ...، وبابٌ يَدخُلُ مِنهُ سائـرُ المُسلِمينَ مِمَّنْ شَهِدَ أنْ لا إلهَ إلّا اللّه‏ُ ، ولَم يَكُنْ في قَلبِهِ مِقْدارُ ذَرَّةٍ مِن بُغْضِنا أهلَ البَيتِ.

Imam Ali (AS) said, ‘Paradise has eight doors: a door through which the prophets and the truthful ones will enter, a door through which the martyrs and the righteous will enter, five doors through which our shi`a and our lovers will enter …, a door through which the rest of the Muslims will enter, that is, those that bear witness to ‘There is no god but Allah’ and who do not bear an atom’s weight of enmity towards us, the ahl al-bayt.’[al-Khisal, p. 408, no. 6]

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What hes trying to say is, in our opinion after Prophet Muhammed  (as) it is Imam Ali  (as) sunnis Technically deny Imam Ali  (as) as First Khalifah and Imam. They deny the authorities of All 12 Imams  (as). that in itself is a Sin. 

 

In my opinion meaning it has no value because i'm just a ordinary person  if one man Knowingly knows the right of imam Ali(as) and on purpose denys then yes he is a sinner, however if he doesn't know or believes Imam Ali  (as) not to be the 1st khalifah and he may not be a sinner due to ignorance however still accountable because everyone needs to search for the truth. 

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Yes. That's what I read.

ـ الإمامُ عليٌّ (عَلَيهِ الّسَلامُ): إنَّ لِلجَنّةِ ثَمانِيَةَ أبوابٍ: بابٌ يَدخُلُ مِنهُ النَّبِيّونَ والصِّدِّيقونَ ، وبابٌ يَدخُلُ مِنهُ الشُّهَداءُ والصّالِحونَ ، وخَمسَةُ أبْوابٍ يَدخُلُ مِنها شِيعَتُنا ومُحِبّونا ...، وبابٌ يَدخُلُ مِنهُ سائـرُ المُسلِمينَ مِمَّنْ شَهِدَ أنْ لا إلهَ إلّا اللّه‏ُ ، ولَم يَكُنْ في قَلبِهِ مِقْدارُ ذَرَّةٍ مِن بُغْضِنا أهلَ البَيتِ.

Imam Ali (as) said, ‘Paradise has eight doors: a door through which the prophets and the truthful ones will enter, a door through which the martyrs and the righteous will enter, five doors through which our shi`a and our lovers will enter …, a door through which the rest of the Muslims will enter, that is, those that bear witness to ‘There is no god but Allah’ and who do not bear an atom’s weight of enmity towards us, the ahl al-bayt.’[al-Khisal, p. 408, no. 6]

That is a very nice hadith. In other words, those who have a single atom of hate for AhlulBayt can NOT enter heaven, and that includes those Salafis who belittle Ali ibn Abi Talib(as) as just a "Sahabi". 

 

The thing is, there are narrations from the imams(as) that say whoever loves Abu Bakr and Umar is kafir. It's a bit harsh, but the truth is truth. 

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The thing is, there are narrations from the imams(as) that say whoever loves Abu Bakr and Umar is kafir. It's a bit harsh, but the truth is truth.

If you are implying based on this hadith that all Sunnis will generally enter jahanam then that's incorrect and contradicts our belief.

It means those that have been informed of the reality of Abu Bakr and Umar, yet insist on loving them or try to give them excuses out of arrogance. It does not apply to the ignorant laymen who were not informed of the truth correctly.

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It means those that have been informed of the reality of Abu Bakr and Umar, yet insist on loving them or try to give them excuses out of arrogance. It does not apply to the ignorant laymen who were not informed of the truth correctly.

 

 

So a sunni who heard from a shia that Abu Bakr stole fadak & umar killed fatima, still loves both of them will go to hell?

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<<<do not bear an atom’s weight of enmity towards us>>

 

is it enmity to know that abu bakr stole fatimas (as) property?

i mean its not that physically but it seems and not even with words but i mean someone who accept fatima (as) beeing sad etc could be minimum considered as an "atom" 

 

for example in my family there are also sunnis but guess they do not know such things. but someone who would know that. i always ask myself how he would considered because to beeing content while fatima (as) is so hurt is for me a kind of enmity.

 

i ask because of people i know because i often think they will have great problems on qiyama because i also know persons who accept the fadak story

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So a sunni who heard from a shia that Abu Bakr stole fadak & umar killed fatima, still loves both of them will go to hell?

Shias and sunnis ( not every shia and sunni but mostly) believe their sect is more closer to truth and therefore just hearing anything is not enough to believe that abu bakr and umar did such acts, I hope you understand , because the reactions upon hearing such statements are in denial.

On the other hand , the people they trust that is to say, their scholars tell them abu bakr is best of men after prophets, so it becomes actually difficult for sunnis to believe in these statements, unless the person tries to seek the truth with pure intentions, this goes for both shias and sunnis.

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Also, the Prophet SAWS said that whoever dies without knowing the Imam of his time has died the death of a person in jahiliyya. However, If a Sunni is ignorant of this then he is asked about his ignorance?

@ ayuoobi , please dont take any offense, im not questioning you, but asking this for my own satisfaction.

Does anyone have the reference for this saying? I have heard it many times but a reference from a reliable book would be very helpful ( shia book sunni book doesnt matter , but ahthentic ones) .

And please, if this has already been talked about on this site ( which is highly likely) then could you perhaps only post the name of that topic..

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Also, the Prophet SAWS said that whoever dies without knowing the Imam of his time has died the death of a person in jahiliyya. However, If a Sunni is ignorant of this then he is asked about his ignorance?

@ ayuoobi , please dont take any offense, im not questioning you, but asking this for my own satisfaction.

Does anyone have the reference for this saying? I have heard it many times but a reference from a reliable book would be very helpful ( shia book sunni book doesnt matter , but ahthentic ones) .

And please, if this has already been talked about on this site ( which is highly likely) then could you perhaps only post the name of that topic..

 

SA brother. I appreciate your good akhlaq in inquiring about this matter. What I meant when I said a sunni will be asked about his ignorance is that Allah SWT will ask him what efforts he undertook to gain knowledge or if there was a lack of effort what excuse the sunni has to offer. An example of this is found directly in the Quran:

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ تَوَفَّاهُمُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ ظَالِمِي أَنفُسِهِمْ قَالُوا فِيمَ كُنتُمْ ۖ قَالُوا كُنَّا مُسْتَضْعَفِينَ فِي الْأَرْضِ ۚ قَالُوا أَلَمْ تَكُنْ أَرْضُ اللَّهِ وَاسِعَةً فَتُهَاجِرُوا فِيهَا ۚ فَأُولَٰئِكَ مَأْوَاهُمْ جَهَنَّمُ ۖ وَسَاءَتْ مَصِيرًا

 

Surely (as for) those whom the angels cause to die while they are unjust to their souls, they shall say: In what state were you? They shall say: We were weak in the earth. They shall say: Was not Allah's earth spacious, so that you should have migrated therein? So these it is whose abode is hell, and it is an evil resort. (4:97)

 

We see here in Suratul Nisa verse 97 that some wrongdoers will be asked why they were wrongdoers. Some of them will offer the excuse that they were weak in the earth (i.e. social pressures caused them to cave in, or they were compelled, or any number of excuses). Their excuse will be rejected because the angels will tell them that if the social pressures around them were harming their faith, they should have migrated because Allah's earth is spacious. So these people's excuse will be rejected. Now let's look at the next two verses: 

 

إِلَّا الْمُسْتَضْعَفِينَ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ وَالنِّسَاءِ وَالْوِلْدَانِ لَا يَسْتَطِيعُونَ حِيلَةً وَلَا يَهْتَدُونَ سَبِيلًا

 

Shakir

Except the weak from among the men and the children who have not in their power the means nor can they find a way (to escape);

 

فَأُولَٰئِكَ عَسَى اللَّهُ أَن يَعْفُوَ عَنْهُمْ ۚ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ عَفُوًّا غَفُورًا

Shakir

So these, it may be, Allah will pardon them, and Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.

 

In verse 98 above we find that there is an exception to this. Some people actually are weak on the earth and really don't have the power to migrate to escape the negative pressures put on their faith in their current environment. So as verse 99 says, Allah SWT might pardon them and it gives hope in this verse because it reminds us that Allah is the Pardoning and Forgiving.

 

 

Mutahhari argues in his book Divine Justice that the same logic in the above verses is applied to the issue of ignorance on theological subjects. People who got it wrong, whether they be Christians or Sunnis will be asked why they got it wrong and were consequently sinners. They will all offer excuses and some of their excuses will be rejected because they actually had the power to overcome those obstacles, and so Allah SWT may punish them. Others will offer legitimate excuses and Allah SWT may forgive them. Allamah Tabatabai also mentions that being ignorant can sometiems be an excuse for being ignorant. Meaning people don't know what they don't know; for most people in the West for example, the thought of studying Islam seriously never even crosses their mind because they're so plugged into the matrix that they don't know what Islam has to offer. The fact that the Quran is available on the bookshelf and so people are technically able to learn about Islam is not really fair since most people wouldn't have the motivation to pick it up and read in in the first place, given what they're taught about Islam on the media. The Islamic philosophers generally believe most people to be in the category of being mustadh3af fil ardh (weak on the earth) because of this.

 

May Allah SWT protect the believers and grant us the knowledge which will lead to our salvation.

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If you are implying based on this hadith that all Sunnis will generally enter jahanam then that's incorrect and contradicts our belief.

It means those that have been informed of the reality of Abu Bakr and Umar, yet insist on loving them or try to give them excuses out of arrogance. It does not apply to the ignorant laymen who were not informed of the truth correctly.

Exactly brother. Of course not those who love them of ignorance and misinformation. Whereas those who are shown their reality and still defend these figures. If they are shown these people's reality, and still defend them, it means they have some hate for AhlulBayt. And this also applies to those who deny the wilayah of the imams(as) after being shown the evidence and proof for it.

 

Imam Ali (as) said, ‘Paradise has eight doors: a door through which the prophets and the truthful ones will enter, a door through which the martyrs and the righteous will enter, five doors through which our shi`a and our lovers will enter …, a door through which the rest of the Muslims will enter, that is, those that bear witness to ‘There is no god but Allah’ and who do not bear an atom’s weight of enmity towards us, the ahl al-bayt.’[al-Khisal, p. 408, no. 6]

 

So, one who has an atom's weight of hate for AhlulBayt can not enter heaven. The sunnis who know the reality of the enemies of AhlulBayt, such as the first, second, third, and Muawiyah, but still defend them, have hate for AhlulBayt, and thus can not enter heaven. This is according to the hadith. 

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Thankyou for the information shared brother ayuoobi,,

And I also apologise, because apparently my inquiry was not clear enough to have been understood,,

Any user can provide the reference if they have the knowledge, ,

Also, the Prophet SAWS said that whoever dies without knowing the Imam of his time has died the death of a person in jahiliyya.

It is this saying of the prophet(s.a.w.w) that I was referring to... sorry for the ambiguity... :)

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Exactly brother. Of course not those who love them of ignorance and misinformation. Whereas those who are shown their reality and still defend these figures. If they are shown these people's reality, and still defend them, it means they have some hate for AhlulBayt. And this also applies to those who deny the wilayah of the imams(as) after being shown the evidence and proof for it.

 

Imam Ali (as) said, ‘Paradise has eight doors: a door through which the prophets and the truthful ones will enter, a door through which the martyrs and the righteous will enter, five doors through which our shi`a and our lovers will enter …, a door through which the rest of the Muslims will enter, that is, those that bear witness to ‘There is no god but Allah’ and who do not bear an atom’s weight of enmity towards us, the ahl al-bayt.’[al-Khisal, p. 408, no. 6]

 

So, one who has an atom's weight of hate for AhlulBayt can not enter heaven. The sunnis who know the reality of the enemies of AhlulBayt, such as the first, second, third, and Muawiyah, but still defend them, have hate for AhlulBayt, and thus can not enter heaven. This is according to the hadith.

Salaam brother...

it MIGHT be possible to prove from sunni sources that imam ali was to succeed rasulullah,

possible to prove that the election of the first caliph did indeed happen without the consent of the ummah at large,

By this I mean, it can be proved from sunni references that at the time of selection there was conflict between the muslims as to who should become their leader..

but I think it is very unlikely to prove the enmity of the first three caliphs towards ahl ul bait a.s from sunni sources.. and shia references are not enough proof to convince a sunni regarding this matter or any other matter...

Perhaps if the situation is not as I stated and there is proof of this enmity In the sunni references... but the ones that are quoted include statements that show how the caliphs were god fearing (im referring to the hadith involvong the matter of fadak) ...

I just think its difficult to prove the enmity...from sunni sources... no offense intended ...

Maybe you can change my opinion... :) ... only if you are interested ...

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according to the hadiths, yes. (of course unless Allah swt forgives).

So a sunni who heard from a shia that Abu Bakr stole fadak & umar killed fatima, still loves both of them will go to hell?

I copy pasted this from invoker's post, and then I added my opinion , which was in short that only hearing it from a shia doesnot create enough evidence for a sunni to believe in these statements, but for a neutral person, seeking the true teachings of islam, this does cause curiosity which can fortunately be followed by research.. :)

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So a sunni who heard from a shia that Abu Bakr stole fadak & umar killed fatima, still loves both of them will go to hell?

If he is shown the real proof itself that Abu Bakr and Umar did those things, and still loves them, then in general, he is a nasibi. And believe me brothers and sisters, there is MUCH evidence in sunni books as well. I recommend watching Sayed Kamal Haydari on YouTube as a start. Sheikh Yasser Habib has also been doing this for a long time, and despite his never-ending cursing, he has exposed their religion and proved many things.

 

I've been watching Shia-Sunni debates for over 2 years now, and I've realized the sunnis win in talking only. They are great at making jokes to please the sunni viewers, which makes it seem like they won the debate. But don't ever get fooled that way. 

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If he is shown the real proof itself that Abu Bakr and Umar did those things, and still loves them, then in general, he is a nasibi. And believe me brothers and sisters, there is MUCH evidence in sunni books as well. I recommend watching Sayed Kamal Haydari on YouTube as a start. Sheikh Yasser Habib has also been doing this for a long time, and despite his never-ending cursing, he has exposed their religion and proved many things.

 

I've been watching Shia-Sunni debates for over 2 years now, and I've realized the sunnis win in talking only. They are great at making jokes to please the sunni viewers, which makes it seem like they won the debate. But don't ever get fooled that way.

Before this takes the form of a never ending argument which yeilds no results... we should either give evidence for our claims or just let things be, and refrain from deciding who enters paradise and who doesnt...

As for my statements... here are the references( from sunni authentic books)...

1) Ali you are to me as harun was to musa but there will be no prophet after me ..( this is not the exact translation , ref: sahih muslim ,كتاب فضائل الصحابة ، fazail of ali.. the hadith number is 6168 and onwards) ..

What was harun to musa is well known to all...

2) fadak.. sahih muslim,كتاب الجهاد والسير، hadith number 4555 .. abu bakr refused to give the land of fadak.. but why ... because he wanted to keep it in the same way the prophet(s.a.w.w) had kept it... and theres alot more... but it can be shown that the daughter (s.a) of our prophet (s.a.w.w) was angered..

3) how was abu bakr elected... sahi bukhari, volume 8, كتاب المحاربين، hadeeth number 6830, ,...

But how can it be shown from sunni references that umar killed the daughter ( s.a) of prophet muhammad (s.a.w.w).. ?

Do you have any references for your claim that there is musch evidence in sunni books as well.. :) .. dont take any offense.. but the enmity is difficult to prove from sunni books, and that umar killed the daughter(s.a) of rasulullah (s.a.w.w)... this seems rather impossible... I read somewhere it is in musnad ahmed.. but never had access to musnad ahmed..

you are obviously not bound to provide any references, but it would be great if you do..

NO OFFENSE INTENDED..

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Brother I never said that there is evidence from sunni books that umar killed fatimah(as) or broke her rib. But there is other evidence of other things these people did. I don't have anything in my hands at the moment, and I have no time to research either, so someone else will have to help you here. Wassalm.

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We believe sunni's are muslims.

 

Anyone can be a sinner, shia or sunni, jew or christian.

 

Perhaps you mean sinner in the sense they reject Ali a.s as an Imam? Well i don't know in that case, but they are still muslims

good short explanation

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Brother I never said that there is evidence from sunni books that umar killed fatimah(as) or broke her rib. But there is other evidence of other things these people did. I don't have anything in my hands at the moment, and I have no time to research either, so someone else will have to help you here. Wassalm.

Alright brother.. wsalam..

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What can be agreed upon mutually by sunni and shii sources is that the second One , along with a group of men from the tribe of banu Aslam surrounded the house of Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussein (peace be upon them all) and shouted; By Allah, I will burn down the house upon you unless you come out and swear allegiance to the caliph.

This is where the different understandings of what developed afterwards arise and the versions part.

What we can conclude at least from what we both agree on is that the second One was willing to murder the family of the holy prophet (s.a.w.s) by torching the house and having it caving in over them.

In what light does this portray him? Can we really argue that this was purely his ultimate devotedness to the religion that causes him to take such measures, to the extent that he'd be willing to kill the holy prophets (s.a.w.s) own flesh right after his departure?

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