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In the Name of God بسم الله
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fathl

He Asked Her Hand, Just Before Me...

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Salaam brothers and sisters.

 

I could really use some advise.

 

We have a female employee  working at our office. She has proven herself to be a very disciplined, intelligent and hard working female, and I felt immediately attracted when I was first introduced to her. 

I have kept my feelings inward, and have remained focused on my own responsibilities, and have cherished the intention of approaching her after I have finished my main work. 

 

This was like two months ago. And just yesterday, I heard from the CEO (who is my elder brother) and human resource manager (who is a close friend and trustee), who interviewed her that someone has proposed to her, and they are expected to get engaged soon.

 

I am happy for her. But it breaks my heart that I was too late. Im still seriously considering approaching her, en informing her of my interest of getting to know her. But as I was raised in Europe, and I'm currently residing inTunisia, would it be scandalous to do so?

 

My brother is grooming me to take over his job, and I cannot permit myself a vulnerable position and risk a bad reputation.  

 

And since her importance to the company is increasing, I dont want to raise fears about her job security because of my position of influence.

 

I'm seriously considering approaching her in the coming days...

 

Your brother,

Fathl

 

Wassalaam

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(salam) 

 

All good women who observe their :Hijab say such things at job interviews , as a self defence mechanism to ward off men. Some even go as far as wearing rings, having photos and having her brother pose as her future husband.

So most likely her statement is not true , but if she is a good sister , than she won't be available for long . (as men like myself are always searching for such sisters ) .

As the future CEO , get the deal done , go in and use your position , power and prestige to take what is yours .

Do your intel on her , and if there is competition lurking around , eliminate it .

Wipe out all other markets , and take the monopoly over her .

Present her with a partnership deal she cannot refuse , and as a bonus throw in a hefty retirement plan for her parents.

Even offer her brother posing as her future husband a job .

I wish you success .

 

ws

 

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Perhaps I've come to the wrong forum for advice. Never expected an Admin to be so hostile, and full of contempt. 

 

Enlightment,

feelings are like apetite, it comes and goes, and I wouldnt count on them to guide me in my decisions. But I do blaim myself for not approaching her earlier, and going forward from there.

 

In this north african city, and of the close to hundred of university graduates that did a job-interview at our office, I havent met a man or woman yet who could match this particular girl in terms of her value to the company (knowledge, skills, and experience)  and her personality. I've had a number of exchanges with her, and she impresses me. And now I want her. I dont need her, but I want her.

 

Good things never come cheap. But I just dont know how to manage the cultural sensitivities since some guy from the gulf states has overtaken me. And this is a problem, since the possible blowback might be harmfull to my reputation an to the company.

 

And yes, she does wear the hijab, is sunni, and there is a good chance things might not work. 


Logical Islamic,

 

I cant cut off all contact with her. She works at our office and we see eachother regularly there. And sooner than later, we will be meeting and discussing many issues together too.

 

Sami II

 

that was funny. Thanks for the laughs!

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brother Al mufeed... I think you are over reacting a bit here, which surprises me...

It's not like she is officially engaged or something, she's had this proposal that she is seriously considering, that's all. Even if the OP proposes to her, in a decent manner of course,if she is not willing she can just say... Its nothing offensive...Its not like she knows that the OP knows...if she isn't willing or if her rishta is already decided she will just say so....

An old friend of my father's with whom we had been out of touch for some years(we had relocated), contacted my mother one day out of the blue and asked for my hand for their son... Lol..my mother told them not only I was already married but had a baby too....no one was hurt, no hard feelings....

Donno much about the arab community but in my part of the world it's not uncommon because here information about engagements is often not shared with everyone...

The only problem i see with the whole situation is that the girl is sunni.

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Its seems all the men are cautioning me against approaching her. And there are some good reasons to do so. Women are in plenty supply, but I might miss out on one of the best chances in life to get a woman of that high value and quality, a perfect mother. And really, although the costs might huge, I still wiling to incur the cost to take that shot.

 

I just dont know yet how to get mange the possible blowback.

 

Admin,

I dont watch hollywood movies. And your making false assumptions about me which are completely untrue. On the otherhand, the reasons you summed up, are my fears too, an its the worst-case  scenario. But men shouldnt be guided by fears when making important decisions, dont you agree? 

 

Starlight,

does it occur often that women get multiple proposals? And does it happen that women settle for a candidate, due to low number of proposals (in this part of the world, most girls dont wear the hijab anymore) or because of the heavy pressure by her family? I've heard the girl once cry for a good few minutes whilst on the phone in the balcony, that was shortly before this news reached my ears.

 

And in a case where a girl receives multiple proposals, does this confuse her emotionally, or would she appreciate the additional information. Lets not forget, if the intention is to get married, which is a long-term "investment", I would definitly like to consider all of the options (candidates) with their pros/cons. I'm just not sure others would see it that way. Im curious on a woman's take on this.

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Its seems all the men are cautioning me against approaching her. And there are some good reasons to do so. Women are in plenty supply, but I might miss out on one of the best chances in life to get a woman of that high value and quality, a perfect mother. And really, although the costs might huge, I still wiling to incur the cost to take that shot.

 

I just dont know yet how to get mange the possible blowback.

 

Admin,

I dont watch hollywood movies. And your making false assumptions about me which are completely untrue. On the otherhand, the reasons you summed up, are my fears too, an its the worst-case  scenario. But men shouldnt be guided by fears when making important decisions, dont you agree? 

 

Starlight,

does it occur often that women get multiple proposals? And does it happen that women settle for a candidate, due to low number of proposals (in this part of the world, most girls dont wear the hijab anymore) or because of the heavy pressure by her family? I've heard the girl once cry for a good few minutes whilst on the phone in the balcony, that was shortly before this news reached my ears.

 

And in a case where a girl receives multiple proposals, does this confuse her emotionally, or would she appreciate the additional information. Lets not forget, if the intention is to get married, which is a long-term "investment", I would definitly like to consider all of the options (candidates) with their pros/cons. I'm just not sure others would see it that way. Im curious on a woman's take on this.

Dont do it. I know a sister who's engagement was ruined because of this and shw ended up not marrying either men and everyone just had a lot of problems and drama. Just stop. Let her be happy. You had your chance two month ago. Next time dont wait.

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fathl, I really don't think you should consider marriage. It's going to distract you from your intense love affair with yourself. It's clear that when you start thinking about yourself, everyone else in the world just fades from view. That's clearly a powerful attraction. Why risk that relationship?

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A female perspective: stay away if you are sure she has accepted this proposal. If she goes onto get married, it is your duty to distance yourself from her and never reveal to anyone your feelings towards her. It is a big sin to cause trouble between a couple.

Some other moron once approached me while i was out shopping and expressed his interest in "getting to know me". I informed him that i do not associate with strange men and furthermore i am soon to be married. He responded by shrugging his shoulders and a "well up to you, i think we should get to know each other".

I walked off in disgust at his lack of respect thinking not even if you were the last man on earth mate.

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Really...........you don't see a problem with asking an engaged woman if she is interested in ditching that other guy for you, but her being a Sunni is the big issue?

 

PS: Asking a girl for her hand in marriage whilst not knowing she already is, is very different than asking a girl you know is already engaged.....surely you can see the irrelevance of your example. 

brother........ she isn't engaged........ she 's has a proposal that she is seriously considering

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Keys2paradis,

she hasnt formally/publicaly accepted his proposal yet. I think she has yet to get to know him. And she hasnt informed this to me herself. She only revealed it after an interview with our HR manager, and she implied that the issue wasnt certain yet.

 

starlight,

that is correct. she isnt engaged, its just thinking and talking. 

 

ruffles,

The situation that your friend experienced doesnt necessarily scale to my situation. I'ld be interested though in the reasons that contributed in the breakdown of these relationships. So if you could elaborate, I would appreciate that.

 

admin,

your eloquence is superb, your wisdom is unmatched, and your thoughtful advice is highly appreciated. Unfortunately, my monstruously selfish character doesnt value your ettiquette. So you understand my problem.

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Some other moron once approached me while i was out shopping and expressed his interest in "getting to know me". I informed him that i do not associate with strange men and furthermore i am soon to be married. He responded by shrugging his shoulders and a "well up to you, i think we should get to know each other".

he should have walked away .. when u told him about ur engagement. but sister dont hate on a guy who is lookin to get to know you .... he didnt say he wanted to date u. nothing wrong with a brotha if he wanted to go through parents! if he said i want ur parents number .... its nnot harram

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Its seems all the men are cautioning me against approaching her. And there are some good reasons to do so. Women are in plenty supply, but I might miss out on one of the best chances in life to get a woman of that high value and quality, a perfect mother. And really, although the costs might huge, I still wiling to incur the cost to take that shot.

 

I don't know this person, so this may be a bit of a harsh comment, but how are you so sure that she would be a perfect mother? I wouldn't have thought that these push it to the limit/be all you can be/it isn't a man's world type of women would be willing to give up their career and be the perfect mother.

 

If anything, having worked so hard toward getting this career, if she did have to give it up, it would most likely plant the seed of resentment in her heart, which would only grow and yield bitter fruit, that you would end up having to eat. Following on from that, if you did get a divorce, she would (probably) use all the ambition and passion that got to the top, to take you for every penny you have and will have (depending on the divorce laws in the country that you are living in)

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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Ali_Hussein,

 

Good point, and its an assumption I'm well aware off. I wouldnt press her to give up her carreer, or neglect it, not at all. By all account, I would love to see her continue to grow, intellectually, carreer-wise, and preferably at our office. At the board, we have no doubt that she might prove herself to be the most valuable programmer among all her peers. Yes, thats right, a woman so briliant and fast-paced, that she overtakes all her highly experienced male colleagues. 

 

A soft-mannered, mature woman, which projects brilliance and innocence, seems to me the ultimate a candidate for marriage. And I have no doubt such a woman would grow to be a good mother and a good wife. If I have to take a few hits to win her over, I'm willing to absorb them if she will have me. But it seems that I'm in the minority, and noone has previous experience on how to deal with such a situation.

 

Thanks for your critical view btw. If you have any other points of concern, particularly if it concerns the possible blowback I would have to face, I would be very glad to ponder over them, and share my thinking.

Edited by fathl

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A dedicated career woman only makes a good wife and mother at the expense of her career, and even then only if she sacrifices the career for her family without any hesitation.

Of course, woman can have a family and not suffer in her career if she doesn't mind letting someone else raise the children and take care of the home.

I say this as a woman with both career and family. In reality both suffer.

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If you do that your an idiot. Seriously I don't usually say things ilke that to people, but the fact that you are actually considering this - and even posted on it... 

 

 

You need to grow up big time.

 

I'm disappointed at the delivery of your advice... especially considering that you have Sheikh al-Mufeed as your name and profile pic and that you're a Shiachat admin, and thus a representative of a site for aspiring Shias.

 

Yeah, his situation sucks and he has to practice patience right now and learn to slowly get over it, but your advice does nothing except rub unnecessary salt on a clearly terrible wound of a brother. It's obvious that this guy has been hurt to the degree of having to post on shiachat for advice from his bros and sis's, and yes he has to ultimately swallow the gigantic pill of having to get over it, but there's no need to be disrespectful and hurtful.

Edited by YariAzQuran

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I'm disappointed at the delivery of your advice... especially considering that you have Sheikh al-Mufeed as your name and profile pic and that you're a Shiachat admin, and thus a representative of a site for aspiring Shias.

 

Yeah, his situation sucks and he has to practice patience right now and learn to slowly get over it, but your advice does nothing except rub unnecessary salt on a clearly terrible wound of a brother. It's obvious that this guy has been hurt to the degree of having to post on shiachat for advice from his bros and sis's, and yes he has to ultimately swallow the gigantic pill of having to get over it, but there's no need to be disrespectful and hurtful.

 

Come on man.  It's best to be direct.  The guy is being stupid and needs a good figurative punch back into his senses. 

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Come on man.  It's best to be direct.  The guy is being stupid and needs a good figurative punch back into his senses. 

 

That's probably true, but shiachat should be a community that people are comfortable to go towards for advice even on personal issues, and there's no point in being blunt or rude in response because you don't even know the person, so you might as well be considerate. If you knew the person well then yes, sometimes being blunt is necessary. Again though I agree with you, he absolutely must not go for the girl in his situation and clearly it is a test of his patience from Allah (swt). I just didn't like seeing the combination of 1) someone with as much empathy and compassion as Sheikh Mufeed and 2) a shiachat admin being associated with that type of blunt response in someone's (assuming) sincere call for advice. I just think that our role models always taught us a better way to handle these things, like how Enlightened responded.

Edited by YariAzQuran

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I'm disappointed at the delivery of your advice... especially considering that you have Sheikh al-Mufeed as your name and profile pic and that you're a Shiachat admin, and thus a representative of a site for aspiring Shias.

 

Yeah, his situation sucks and he has to practice patience right now and learn to slowly get over it, but your advice does nothing except rub unnecessary salt on a clearly terrible wound of a brother. It's obvious that this guy has been hurt to the degree of having to post on shiachat for advice from his bros and sis's, and yes he has to ultimately swallow the gigantic pill of having to get over it, but there's no need to be disrespectful and hurtful.

 

lol your making it sound like this guy was married to this girl or some thing. "Terrible wound" .. "hurt".. come on I dont even think you believe th words your saying, if you do - you got some issues of your own.

 

He has no relationship with this woman at all - hes just infatuated with her. These are the actions/thinking patterns of young kids who grow a "crush" on some one. This is not how an adult acts or thinks.

The point is that this type of thinking/behavior is really selfish and childish, and if a grown man is going to think and act like that he needs to be treated like a child.

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lol your making it sound like this guy was married to this girl or some thing. "Terrible wound" .. "hurt".. come on I dont even think you believe th words your saying, if you do - you got some issues of your own.

 

He has no relationship with this woman at all - hes just infatuated with her. These are the actions/thinking patterns of young kids who grow a "crush" on some one. This is not how an adult acts or thinks.

The point is that this type of thinking/behavior is really selfish and childish, and if a grown man is going to think and act like that he needs to be treated like a child.

 

Like I keep reiterating, no need to attack - whatsoever. Our role models taught us better than that, and it's disappointing for me to see such ethics from a man that dons the name and picture of a man like Sheikh al-Mufid (and also an admin/representative of the standards of a site for Shias).

 

In regards to your comment, the poster mentioned that he was planning on proposing to the girl and that he scheduled to do so but by the test of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, his brother (whom apparently he had no idea was interested in the same girl) proposed to her the day before his plan. It's obvious that a few important details are missing, but it's clearly not just a 'crush' as you paint it out to be.

 

I don't have any other specifics on his situation or the person, and presumably neither do you. So although I agree with you in your end point and advice to him, you're delivery mitigates the good that can come from such advice since you are not close to him. Would you speak to someone like that if the random brother approached you with the same question in the flesh?

 

I recommend introspection on your post, brother. Compare it as it is and, as an admin of Shiachat and bearer of Sheikh al-Mufid, how it should be. We often see posts like these and think to ourselves how ridiculous they might be based on our knowledge and experience (as applied to the very limited description that is provided by the OP), so we answer them condescendingly because we think of what the obvious (to us) answer is and also because it's the internet. But the situation might not be as black and white as we think. Regardless, we must treat others as how we ourselves would like to be treated (if you are knowledgable, then how you would like to be treated by other knowledgable people), and to also not be sucked into the virtual reality that is the internet so that we can retain the standards that the Ahlulbayt left for us.

Edited by YariAzQuran

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Salam,

A friend of mine kept getting proposals even after her engagement. One of the mothers (of the proposing men) seemed to think that the engagement was just a phase that would pass. And as brother Sami mentioned, I have also heard about girls who fake it simply to ward off men (especially in arab countries where taxi drivers are growing an interest in matchmaking).

I do not suspect that this girl is doing so but it is not uncommon nowadays. I don't advise you to approach her however, seeing as you'll still be seeing her around. You'll be forever labeled as "the guy who proposed to me" and it'll be extremely awkward for the two of you to interact. But if you do set your mind on proposing I would advise you to do it as soon as possible before anything is made official.

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I never expected the guys at this forum to be so contemptious and hostile against a fellow shia muslim, for simply asking advice. And to top it, to give such malicious and cowardly advice; lecturing me about some ettiquete while being so rude and unrespectfull.

Maybe next time, I should resort back to my atheistic friends in the netherlands, who have proven to be far more friendly and wise than most of you did. 

Really, I've never personally experienced racism, or visible hostility from from my contemporary friends in the netherlands, or fellow citizens for that matter; to experience these attacks from fellow muslims (again!!) make me doubt how useful and enriching islam has been to your lives. 

Admin,

Good luck pretending virtuousness. 

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I never expected the guys at this forum to be so contemptious and hostile against a fellow shia muslim, for simply asking advice. And to top it, to give such malicious and cowardly advice; lecturing me about some ettiquete while being so rude and unrespectfull.

Maybe next time, I should resort back to my atheistic friends in the netherlands, who have proven to be far more friendly and wise than most of you did. 

Really, I've never personally experienced racism, or visible hostility from from my contemporary friends in the netherlands, or fellow citizens for that matter; to experience these attacks from fellow muslims (again!!) make me doubt how useful and enriching islam has been to your lives. 

Admin,

Good luck pretending virtuousness.

I don't think you're being selfish at all. She is not even engaged yet and who knows, maybe she is waiting to see if you will propose to her before she replies to the other suitor. If you don't give it a shot then you will regret this forever.

Don't listen to some of the self righteous idiots on this site.

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