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El-shia

Child Marraige Law In Iraq.

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I have been browsing around and the past month  articles about ''Iraqs new child marraige law'' constantly pop up , claiming causing conteversy and alike in Iraq.

 

Yet it sounds exteremely fake ....from what I know about Iraq, its politics and situation, also mind that I only found these articles from western news agencies so far, and from the Iraqi side I dont hear or see a thing about this.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/20/iraq-child-marriage-bill-human-rights

 

Anyhow what does everyone here think about this?

Edited by El-shia

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It's utter rubbish. In a nutshell, people in Iraq are trying to establish a Ja'fari court system for personal matters, that people can opt to go to instead of the existing court systems. Anti-Islamic parties jumped on this, and started all of this child marriage malarky to stir up controversy. 

 

How can you say such thing about your own government? 

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I see , that is an essential fact that is often omitted it changes the whole news message. 

 

@Ali-F It is important to stay critical of your goverment, espechially in a Country like Iraq that was opressed for years , its a freedom that people rarely ever had.

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To add to Wizdom's post, the issue is essentially a conflict between the secular and Islamic parties but the media is misrepresenting the issue and going so far as to assume that child marriages will be allowed. I haven't heard a single case of a child being married in Iraq.

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Cool story.... I doudt any woman that's in the parliment will agree to that law... Mind you 27% of the iraq parliment is woman,yes it might seem like a bit but it sure is higher then uks one (if I remmber correctly)...

Anyways, I dont think the goverment has time for such laws....

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Cool story.... I doudt any woman that's in the parliment will agree to that law... Mind you 27% of the iraq parliment is woman,yes it might seem like a bit but it sure is higher then uks one (if I remmber correctly)...

Anyways, I dont think the goverment has time for such laws....

 

Plenty of female members of parliament agree with and support the law. If you're a Muslim, you support God's laws, and want to live your life in accordance to them - it's that simple.

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Plenty of female members of parliament agree with and support the law. If you're a Muslim, you support God's laws, and want to live your life in accordance to them - it's that simple.

What are you talking about? Did you read the articule? How can they agree with a law that legalises material rape too? My comment was about the articule, I dont know what your on about...

You think by writtig this ,"if your muslim", it will make me agree with the law blindely? That doesnt help,nor does questionning a persones faith....

M3salam

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What are you talking about? Did you read the articule? How can they agree with a law that legalises material rape too? My comment was about the articule, I dont know what your on about...

You think by writtig this ,"if your muslim", it will make me agree with the law blindely? That doesnt help,nor does questionning a persones faith....

M3salam

 

No I didn't bother reading it, because I know exactly what the law proposes, and I don't need to read a non-Muslim Westerner's perspective on it. 

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No I didn't bother reading it, because I know exactly what the law proposes, and I don't need to read a non-Muslim Westerner's perspective on it.

Salam,

So what does the law propose? Does it really legalize rape & allow for marriage of nine year olds? Is this permitted in jaafari law?

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Salam,

So what does the law propose? Does it really legalize rape & allow for marriage of nine year olds? Is this permitted in jaafari law?

 

Rape and marriage of a 9 year old are two separate things. If the girl does not consent then she does not marry. Nothing is forced. Just because it is different from your own culture does not make it wrong. Only reason child marriage is looked down upon nowadays is because people of that age act like children. whereas awhile back, a person of the same age was not a child but an adult. 

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Rape and marriage of a 9 year old are two separate things. If the girl does not consent then she does not marry. Nothing is forced. Just because it is different from your own culture does not make it wrong. Only reason child marriage is looked down upon nowadays is because people of that age act like children. whereas awhile back, a person of the same age was not a child but an adult. 

 

Well shouldnt that be reason enough? Because the law affects 9 year olds today who know little to nothing about marriage and not the 9 year olds of 900 years ago. no?

I personally cannot allow my 11 year old sister to get married or will be able to tolerate my daughter to marry when she becomes 9.

 

Because for a 9 year old to get married, she'd need a husband to be able to provide for her. And I dont know too many boys around the same age to be able to provide for they too are still a child. This leaves the field wide open for men 18-80 years old. And anyone in that age range that want to marry a 9 year old are not right in the head for they can find plenty their own age. Religion or God has nothing to do with this case but common sense.

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It's worth mentioning that the Marji' who is the primary advocate for these laws is of the opinion that the minimum marital age should be twelve, and not nine.

 

With regards to marital rape, this is a rather complex subject. It is, of course, Haraam to force your wife with physical force, harming her. However, it is Haraam for her to withhold sex from her husband too.

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Salaam,

Even in western nations a couple hundreds of years ago it was very common to marry away ones daughter at young age, but I never heard of the actual marriage ceremony taking place until much later - around 14 - 16 years old at that time was more common.

This kind of marriage law, does it actually permit for a 9 year old girl to become a wife at 9? Or is it legal to commit for a later marriage from 9 on?

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The amount of retards on here. The minimum age is 9 but that does not mean that 9 year olds will be married. A girl can be married when she become mature and understand sex and gets pleasure from it and that depends of their age but there is a minimum age of 9 for someone to reach maturity.

 

Well shouldnt that be reason enough? Because the law affects 9 year olds today who know little to nothing about marriage and not the 9 year olds of 900 years ago. no?


I personally cannot allow my 11 year old sister to get married or will be able to tolerate my daughter to marry when she becomes 9.

 

Because for a 9 year old to get married, she'd need a husband to be able to provide for her. And I dont know too many boys around the same age to be able to provide for they too are still a child. This leaves the field wide open for men 18-80 years old. And anyone in that age range that want to marry a 9 year old are not right in the head for they can find plenty their own age. Religion or God has nothing to do with this case but common sense.

no one was talking about your sister or daughter. You think your view is above God's laws but you fail to realize that your 'common sense' misses a lot of things. 9 is the minimum not the maximum age. A girl is can marry when she can receive pleasure from sexual intercourse, so that depends on her age, its all a personal matter.

 

BTW you really don't have a clue about the human body, I personally have a relative who married at the age of 10 and she was completely mature and had her first child a few years later, now she was mature. and she has been happily married for 60 years now. So educate yourself before you jump on Islamic laws and compare it to your 'common sense'.

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How can a nine year old take a decicion on such a momentus commitment that is based on reason when at the age of nine the capabilities of the human brain is not fully developed?

Show me a single muslim who has married at the age of 9 in the 21st century. Don't assume people marry 9 year olds just cuz its the minimum.

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And from a number of our companions from Sahl ibn Ziyad from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Nasr from Abd al-Karim ibn Amr from Aboo Basir from Aboo Ja'far (a.s). He said: "One does not have intercourse with the girl until she is nine or ten years old."

Ali ibn Ibraheem from his father and from Muhammad ibn Yahya from Ahmad ibn Muhammad all from ibn Abi Umayr from Hammad from Al-Halabi from Aboo Abdillah (a.s). He said: "When the man marries the girl while she is a minor, then he is not to have intercourse with her (lit. enter by her) until she is nine years old."

And from Humayd ibn Ziyad from al-Hassan ibn Muhammad ibn Sama'a from Safwan ibn Yahya from Musa ibn Bakr from Zuraara from Aboo Ja'far. He said: "One does not have intercourse with the girl until she is nine or ten years old."

And from him from Zakariyya the believer or between him and a man who I do not know but that he narrated from Ammar As-Sijistani. He said: I heard Aboo Abdillah (a.s) saying to a client of his: Set out (or: be free) and say to the qadi: The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: "The bound of the wife that her husband has intercourse with her is that she be a girl of nine years."

Source: Al-Kafi. Vol. 5, Pg. # 240, H. # 253.

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The minimum age is 9 but that does not mean that 9 year olds will be married. 

 

What does that really mean?

How can a nine year old take a decicion on such a momentus commitment that is based on reason when at the age of nine the capabilities of the human brain is not fully developed?

 

Thats the problem- they dont decide. Its their simple/poor/majboor fathers and the mentally sick and often much much much older pedophile husbands to be that seal the deal.

"One does not have intercourse with the girl until she is nine or ten years old."

 

Such "One" deserves a cookie I suppose.

And by "One" I mean those who follow such rulings today. And not those from the centuries past that might have been exposed under different suns and breathed different air.

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In Canada women are allowed to walk topless by law. But you never see anyone with a gram of brain in their head to walk topless in public. I have however seen drunken idiots in need of attention take advantage of this law and thats very very very very rare.

In case of Child marriage likewise. No respectable man would ever marry a 9 or a 12 year old. I doubt that Sayed Hassan, or Ayatollah Sistani or anyone else that has a tinge of self respect would take advantage of the law. Its usually the selfish, the pedophile, the retard that use this and ruin a child's life. Such cases often happen in impoverished areas. While the idiots in Canada harm themselves by walking around topless, the idiots in Islam harm someone else's life. And hence it needs condemnation. Because toleration of this law only opens the door for the opportunists to take advantage of people's poverty. If we dont condemn this law then we have openly declared poverty to be a crime or a sin.

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Guys, we must all remember that there is no objective definition of intellectual adulthood. Intellectual adulthood varies based on many things: family upbringing, societal conditions, social norms, etc...

 

But there is, in fact, one objective way of defining biological adulthood. And this is the way that Islam has prescribed it. So there is no reason for us to be ashamed that Islam defines adulthood in a certain way, because Islam is only defining it in the only objective way. This doesn't mean nine-year old girls are all getting married. There is a protection in place to make sure that nobody is taken advantage of or robbed of their innocence (i.e. the wali).

 

We shouldn't even be calling this the "child marriage law," because that implies certain falsehoods.

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Don't girls get their period nowadays when they are 13/14 or at least 12? Where this age 9 came from? Isn't that what Islamic jurisprudence is looking into mainly?

 

 

There is a protection in place to make sure that nobody is taken advantage of or robbed of their innocence (i.e. the wali).

 

bj: (the wali) in most poor countries are more than ready to exchange their daughters or sisters with wealth/money or pay-off debts...and etc... not looking for the best interests of their female relatives... you will find 100s of such cases in Yemen, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, (nowadays in Syrian refugee camps everywhere) and across the Muslim-world, especially amongst Sunnis.

Edited by Noah-

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The age of 9 is so young and it is kind of jolting that that age keeps getting mentioned for girls maturation. Currently, girls get their period on average about 12 - 13 years; however, the "average" range is stated as between 10 - 15 (I just looked it up). I knew one girl who started at 10 (who told me she was terrified and thought she was dying) and one who started at 15 (who was starting to worry that there was something wrong with her) and lots who started 12 - 13 - so guess it is on a bell curve!  Even though it is possible, I have never met anyone who started at 9. Historically, girls were around 13 - 14 before reaching biological puberty - which is when many had their first child.

 

Kids of 9 or 10 definitely should not be having babies - especially in some far off rural area with limited health care.

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Guys cut it out, the marji behind this has said the age is twelve, why are you all jumping up and down over a strawman?

 

Knowing that you have the backing of your Marja, would you marry a 9 year old? or a 12 year old? 

and the same question applies to baradar jackson.

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<<<Knowing that you have the backing of your Marja, would you marry a 9 year old? or a 12 year old? >>>

 

i know someone who is much more older than me , marrying a girl in nearly that age. you guess who?

one advice, if you attack that person you attack our religion. 

 

so what is the problem?

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Would you marry a 9 year old? If not then is that out of spite for Prophet (SAW)?

 

About 60 years ago those women who went to movies/cinemas were considered bad. And that perception had truth to it because morally-unhealthy women frequented cinemas. Today however that is not completely the case. Families go to movies. Time changes perceptions. And my concern and objective of my post is today's world. And in today's world no self respecting man would marry a 9 year old.

You sound like the salafis who would behead any woman who would go to movies because 60 years ago bad women went there. Do u get what I am trying to say?

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Wahdat, would you marry the poorest, and ugliest Muslim girl?

Halal' is a Halal', the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.w) is more modern than any man who is Western inclined towards Western values. Modern is not the West, Modern is Islam.

Edited by DaBeast313

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<<<Would you marry a 9 year old? If not then is that out of spite for Prophet (SAW)?>>>

 

let us not talk about my personal favour but about the laws of religion. i have the right to marry 4 wifes but i prefer one.

so talking about me and you do not have much place in matters of religion. let this beside.

 

 

 

 

 

<<<About 60 years ago those women who went to movies/cinemas were considered bad. And that perception had truth to it because morally-unhealthy women frequented cinemas. Today however that is not completely the case. Families go to movies. Time changes perceptions. And my concern and objective of my post is today's world.>>>

 

Not at all. For western families yes (for some muslims too) but it doesnt represent the islamic lifestyle.

We should behave the way our prophet and his aimma (as) told us. 
No bidah no qiyas , only book of Allah and sunnah of ahle muhammad (as)

 

 

 

 

<<<And in today's world no self respecting man would marry a 9 year old.>>>

 

In past Imam Ali (as) was a honoured man but today he wouldnt earn earn your respect? 
Please question yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

<<<You sound like the salafis who would behead any woman who would go to movies because 60 years ago bad women went there. Do u get what I am trying to say?>>>

 

You sound like someone who do not like the life of ahlulbayt (as). however, always if people take their religion serious they are considered as salafis.
niqab salafi, beard salafi, praying nafilah salafi, imam Ali (as) salafi...  can we make a point?

love your religion and do not hide it or try to make it a "western islam"

 

the turban we should wear , for example, is a sign of being different from non-muslims. we have our religion and we are proud of it. 

we have no christmas we have no eastern and no, it doesnt make us salafis.

 

 

 

 

 

ask yourself this questions.

 

1. how old was imam Ali (as) when he married and how old was fatima (as)?

2. do you want to abuse imam Ali (as) so bad for beeing liked by non-muslims?

3. the most important question to all of us should be: is islam old?

than maybe we would need a new prophet (auzubillah). 

did our aimmah (as) prepared us for every situation till the day of judgement or not? (otherwise i would present you some hadiths)

 

 

the christians who are a big part of our civilisation would accept it according to our religion, nearly all religions would accept it, atheists cannot deny the biological truth (they would call it nature but "nature" make the girls in that age becoming ready for pregance)

and our aimmah (as) told us many things and truth and wisdoms 1000 years ago.

 

so is the wisdom of ahlulbayt (as) and every hujjah of Allah old? is it not enough for us?
should we question them and renew our religion?
should we reject ahle muhammad and the wisdom of Allah?

 

i saw this type of thinking not the first time here and saw people rebuying their religion for the love of non.muslims.

the prophet (sawa) made a lot of fitna with his new religion but truth is truth.

 

so are you submitted to ahlulbayt (as) or to your nefs?

am i honourless because im submitted to imam Ali(as)?

question yourself.
 

do you know that sentence below?

 

"Indeed, I am leaving among you, that which if you hold fast to them, you shall not be misguided after me. One of then is greater than the other: (First is) The book of Allah is a rope extended from the sky to the earth, and (the second is) my family, the people of my house (ahlul bait), and they shall not split until they meet me at the hawd, so look at how you deal with them after me.

believe or reject

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