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In the Name of God بسم الله

Philosophy And Wahdat Al-Wujud

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  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)

(salam)

^If my memory serves me correct, I don't believe Ibn Arabi himself has even used the term Wahdat al-Wujood and in fact it might have been Ibn Taymiyah who actually coined the term up and attributed it to Ibn Arabi. Being anti or pro for most of us is just a matter of taqleed, relying on who we consider to be knowledgeable in these theological and philosophical matters (or unfortunately, for many it is also a matter of prejudice or bias). Regardless, for most of us it might not have any real impact on the way we live our lives. I was quick to jump to conclusions in the past, but ever since I started studying some of these subjects formally - I would consider my self "anti" back then, and while I'm not so pro either right now - I realized there is a lot more to both sides of the arguments than what we are normally exposed to.

 

By the way, some of you might find this an interesting read (only 18 pages): The Maktab-e Tafkīk's Attack on the Legitimacy of Philosophy in Iran

 

Wassalam

Edited by Ibn al-Hussain
Posted (edited)

(salam)

^If my memory serves me correct, I don't believe Ibn Arabi himself has even used the term Wahdat al-Wujood and in fact it might have been Ibn Taymiyah who actually coined the term up and attributed it to Ibn Arabi. Being anti or pro for most of us is just a matter of taqleed, relying on who we consider to be knowledgeable in these theological and philosophical matters (or unfortunately, for many it is also a matter of prejudice or bias). Regardless, for most of us it might not have any real impact on the way we live our lives. I was quick to jump to conclusions in the past, but ever since I started studying some of these subjects formally - I would consider my self "anti" back then, and while I'm not so pro either right now - I realized there is a lot more to both sides of the arguments than what we are normally exposed to.

By the way, some of you might find this an interesting read (only 18 pages): The Maktab-e Tafkīk's Attack on the Legitimacy of Philosophy in Iran

Wassalam

(Salam)

Yes. Ibn Arabi never used the word "Wahdatul Wujud" (as a technical expression). But his students (those who wrote commentaries on his works) used them. It is also unanimously accepted among the Ibn Arabi scholars that Wahdatul Wujud is a good term to describe Ibn Arabi's philosophy of Wujud. It should be noted however that Ibn Arabi talks about the Oneness of existence just as much as he talks about the manyness of existence. On many occasions Ibn Arabi uses the expression the "One/Many" to describe Wujud.

Edited by eThErEaL
  • Veteran Member
Posted

(salam)

Yes. Ibn Arabi never used the word "Wahdatul Wujud" (as a technical expression). But his students (those who wrote commentaries on his works) used them. It is also unanimously accepted among the Ibn Arabi scholars that Wahdatul Wujud is a good term to describe Ibn Arabi's philosophy of Wujud. It should be noted however that Ibn Arabi talks about the Oneness of existence just as much as he talks about the manyness of existence. On many occasions Ibn Arabi uses the expression the "One/Many" to describe Wujud.

Salaam

so is he describing two different modes of existence ? I have not studied Ibn Arabi in depth.

Posted (edited)

(Bismillah)

(Salam)

Salaam

so is he describing two different modes of existence ? I have not studied Ibn Arabi in depth.

There is the Unity of Oneness "ahadiyat al ahad" and the Unity of Manyness ahadiyat al kathrat. The first term refers the Essence of God, or Being conceived without any of the names. The second term refers to the Being as conceived with His many names. The Unity of Oneness obviously has an ontological primacy over the Unity of Manyness. When we talk about God as such, however, we can't have in mind only one of them, rather we need to keep both perspectives in mind and so Ibn Arabi also has a term called "One/Many" al-ahadiyat al-kathrat.

For those who are interested I recommend reading: "Ibn Arabi, Heir to the Prophets." By William Chittick. It gives a brief overview of Ibn Arabi's writings.

Edited by eThErEaL
  • Advanced Member
Posted

Salaamun Alaykum,

 

What Wahdat al-Wujud means is that there is only one existent and that is Allah. This, at first sight, seems counter intuitive as we clearly all find ourselves to be existing. But it should be kept in mind that there may be a world of difference between what we understand by Wahdat al-Wujud and what the mystics meant by it. So unless a person is ready to undertake a study of logic, philosophy, and theoretical mysticism, coupled with intensive spiritual exercises, they are not going to be able to understand what the mystics mean by Wahdat al-Wujud, and it would be better to to stick to concepts regarding Tawhid mentioned in the Quran & ahaadith.

 

As Imam Khmeini says in his book 'Forty Hadith':

 

'If God, Blessed and Exalted, should ask, for instance, “You did not know the meaning of the unity of being (wahdat al-wujud) in accordance with the doctrine of the hukama’ and neither did you receive instruction concerning it from those adept in it, nor did you study that science and its preliminaries. Then why did you blindly accuse them of unbelief and insult them?” What answer shall one have to give in God’s sacred presence except bending down one’s head in shame? Of course, a pretext such as “I thought it to be so” will not be acceptable. Every discipline has certain essentials and preliminaries, without whose knowledge it is not possible to understand its conclusions. This is especially true of such a subtle issue as this whose actual reality and meaning is not well understood even after a lifetime of effort, and here you are who want to apprehend with your inadequate intellect after reading, for instance, a book or two or some verses out of al-Rumi’s Mathnawi something the philosophers and the hukama’ have been discussing for several thousand years and dissecting its issues. Obviously, you will not make anything out of it:

 

رَحِمَ اللهُ امْرَءاً عَرَفَ قَدْرَهُ وَلَمْ يَتَعَدَّ طَوْرَهُ.
May God have mercy upon the man who knows his own worth and does not transgress his limits.

 

Similarly, if a pseudo-philosopher or mystic were to be asked, ‘On what religious basis did you call the fuqaha’ superficial and extroversive, finding fault with them or, rather, with a branch of religious sciences brought by the prophets (A) from the Lord of all lords for the perfection of human souls, denying its worth and insulting them? On what rational and shar’i grounds did you consider affront towards a group of scholars and legists as permissible?” What answer will he offer in the presence of God, Blessed and Exalted, except bowing his head in shame and discredit? In any case let us leave this irksome part to pass on to the rest of the discourse.' [Hadith 24]

  • Advanced Member
Posted

 suufis pray in a group circle ,stand on one leg,i have not seen any Imam or their companions to did this..this proves that Suufiism is false

  • Basic Members
Posted

I'm not sufi nor would I want to be and my understanding of wihdat alwajood is that it calls for the concept of existence being one, not in form but in concept. To say, existence is existence with the highest of existence being God's existence, you can not say that God's existence is a mere philosophy like some philosophers/theologians may have suggested directly/indirectly. Maybe its name and the fact that there are people who differ in interpreting it is what's causing fitna. all in all, what's important is to know that Allah is limitless and anything said, which contradicts with iloohyatih swt , whether under the guise of wihdat alwijood, or any other philosophical/theological guise, is to be discarded regardless of who said it and what it is called - ibn arabi or ibn farasi, doesn't matter. I'd agree with Logical Islamic as he stated you can not be one with God. That the infallibility of the imams doesn't make them one with God, mind you some fallible human who's looking for a revelation in theosophy. If you want truth just follow the imams so that you'd know in your heart of hearts when something is false and when something isn't. If angels who worship and are pure are not one with God then, no one, sufi or otherwise, can be one with God not even in concept. Unless, this oneness is symbolic to mean alhub fee Allah as in to love those who love God & hate those who hate him, and to do right by his name and to yanha 3an almunkar wa yamr belma3roof.

Maybe, and this is just my humble analysis of the situation, it's the fact that people pondering theology want to know the hows and whys of their existence, and the freewill they've been given and instead of surrendering to the greatness of their creator and admitting their own limits in understanding, they try to cook up something about it. If the angels themselves don't know these hows or whys and admit to it, why can't we as humans do the same as in:

قوله تعالى: (سبحانك لا علم لنا الا ما علمتنا)

Just imagine the wit you have, the language you speak, all this from Allah. Then try to think of how truly amazing freewill is. You do what you do, be it wrong or right, it only happens by God's will*, and even with the choice you have, he knows what you will do next. As humans we understand this to a certain level but there are levels within this concept just like the concept of our existence, which we don't understand. This alone is fine, except when we get defeated by our limitedness and start spewing philosophical nonsense which contradicts with the greatness of God.

قال الامام علي عليه السلام: فمن غلب عقله شهوته فهو خير من الملائكة و من غلبت شهوته عقله فهو اشر من البهائم

Our admission of our limited knowledge is what constitutes our faith. At the same time it’s what can make us better than the angels when we choose to do good and worse than an animal when we sin.

__________________________________________

*note: not the same as saying from him

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

For those who rely on Ayat. al-Nuur, here;

Al-Kafi H 499, Ch. 13, h 5

Ali ibn Muhammad and Muhammad ibn al-Hassan have narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from Muhammad ibn al-Hassan ibn sham?? From ‘Abdallah ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmanal-Asamm from ‘Abdallah ibn al-Qasim from salih ibn Sahl al-Hamadani who has said that abu ‘Abdallah (a. s.) has said the following about the verse of the Holy Quran below.

"God is the light of the heavens and the earth. A metaphor for His light is a lantern in which there is a lamp placed in a glass. The glass is like a shining star which is lit from a blessed olive tree that is neither eastern nor western. Its oil almost lights up even though it has not been touched by the fire. It is light upon light. God guides to His light whomever He wants. God uses various metaphors.

He has the knowledge of all things." (24:35) The Imam (a.s.) said that the lantern metaphorically stands for the Holy lady, Fatima (a.s.), the lamp stands for Imam al-Hassan (a. s.) and the glass stands for Imam al-Husayn (a.s.). The shining star stands for the Holy lady Fatima (a.s.) who shines among the ladies of the world. The blessed olive tree stands for Prophet Abraham. Neither eastern nor western means not Jewish nor Christian. ‘Its oil almost lights up’ means that it almost bursts up with knowledge. ‘Light up on light’ means that there will one Imam after the other Imam (a.s.) ‘God guides to His light who ever He wants’ means that Allah guides through the Imams whomever He wants." About ‘God uses various metaphors’ I said, "Or it (the deeds of the unbelievers) are like the darkness of a deep, stormy sea with layers of giant waves, covered by dark clouds. It is darkness upon darkness whereby even if one stretches out his hands he can not see them. One can have no light unless God gives him light. (24:40)

The Imam (a.s.) said, " ‘darkness’ refers to the first and his friend, ‘with layers of giant waves’ refers to the third, ‘covered with darkness’ refers to the second. ‘it is darkness up on darkness’ refers to Mu‘awiya and the disasters caused by the Amavides. ‘even if one stretches out his hands’ means that even if a true believer would stretch his hands in such disastrous condition ‘he can not see them’. ‘One can have no light unless God gives him light, means the light from the children of the Holy Lady, Fatima (a.s.) ‘Can have no light’ means an Imam on the Day of Judgment." The Imam (a.s.) said that, "On the Day of Judgment you will see the believers with their light shining in front of them and to their right. They will be told,

"Paradise wherein streams flow is the glad news for you today. You will live therein forever. This is the greatest triumph." (57:12), the shining light in front . . .’ is a reference to the Imams (a.s.) whom would walk in front and on the right of the true believers until they all enter paradise."

Ali ibn Muhammad and Muhammad ibn al-Hassan have narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from Musa ibn al-Qasim al-Bajali and Muhammad ibn yahya from al-‘Amrakiy ibn Ali altogether from Ali ibn Ja‘far (a.s.) from his brother a similar Hadith.

  • 10 years later...
  • Advanced Member
Posted
On 5/1/2014 at 2:30 PM, Agora said:

pantheism

Its not pantheism- its closer to panENtheism.

Pantheism and panentheism are both philosophical and theological perspectives about the relationship between God (or the divine) and the universe, but they differ significantly in their views:

Pantheism

Definition: Pantheism holds that God is the universe and everything within it. In this view, God and the universe are identical; there is no distinction between the Creator and the creation.

Key Idea: "All is God, and God is all."

Implication: There is no personal God who exists outside or beyond the universe. Everything that exists collectively constitutes the divine.


Panentheism

Definition: Panentheism holds that the universe is within God, but God is more than the universe. The divine encompasses and penetrates all aspects of the universe, while also transcending it.

Key Idea: "All is in God, but God is more than all."

Implication: God has both an immanent aspect (present within the universe) and a transcendent aspect (beyond the universe). There is room for a personal, conscious divine entity that interacts with creation.


Comparison

In summary, while pantheism equates God with the universe, panentheism sees God as encompassing the universe but extending beyond it.

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