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Sapphire

Why The Divorce Rate Is Increasing?

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:Samii - are these men from Pakistani origins ?

 

Samii, since we are stereotyping, what about Iranian women???

 

A well written, spelling mined article by a burnt Iranian man about the women of Iran.

http://arjang011.wordpress.com/category/sleazy-iranian-women/

 

My Take: In my past living in LA and also seeing Iranian communities in North East of USA, I would have a real hard time disagreeing with the the author.

 

Here's the article in its full glory:

[EDITED]

I think his point is that you should not be paki or irani or american or turkish or chinese, etc. You should be :Muslim.

Edited by Basim Ali
See above.

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^ This made me sad. I am pretty sure Iran didn't force hijab on iranian women because they especially need it. Hijab is wajib on all women, and it was made wajib by Allah. My experience with Iranian women is just opposite, they are very sweet, kind, modest and simple. I like them more than desi women. The fact is that men hate any woman who is modest and is not willing to sell herself. This is true for most iranian women, this is why so much hate for them. I have said it before, you can see scarves and big chadars in other countries, but you see true hijab only in Iran and Iraq. If Iranian women are lazy, I hope they remain lazy, and they never become "active" like Pakistani women. 

brother, I don't agree fully with the misspelled article above -lol, but I've seen this trait more so often among Iranian women in USA, whether they were revolution runaways or are recent off the boat. 

 

Generalizations are not good but generally speaking Pakistani females mostly go by certain code. You will find millions (yes literally) of Pakistani women who would not be covering their heads but could be 5x praying, fasting, non-fornicating, non-smoking, non-drinking women.

 

Generalizations are not good but generally speaking Iranian females who you would find without a head covering would also be those who would be totally corrupted, drink socially, smoke often, their skirts would more of Nevada strip styles than those of normal American womens' and so on.

 

So the misspelled author is true to some extent about the 'feminist' women of Iran. 

 

Source: Anecdotal evidence and witnessing firsthand the various sub groups in USA and EU. No scientific basis.

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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hmm... the article just full of hate comments about iranian women and the author doesn't give one solid reason why iranian women are particularly bad.....  feminism is nothing new and there are feminists everywhere...... and he is just exaggerating things.... blaming iranian women for the economy.lol......is the feminist revolution responsible for iran being singled out .No...... everyone knows that's not true.....

I hate when men simply blame women for everything........ what I have observed is that whenever women have exceeded their boundaries laid down by islam or gotten  influenced by feminism....there is always always some deficiency on part of their guardians, the men.

 

Most of the times it's the men who fail in role of leader of the household ,or of the society that allows the weaker soul of the women  to go astray and succumb to the wordly desires.

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brother, I don't agree fully with the misspelled article above -lol, but I've seen this trait more so often among Iranian women in USA, whether they were revolution runaways or are recent off the boat. 

 

Generalizations are not good but generally speaking Pakistani females mostly go by certain code. You will find millions (yes literally) of Pakistani women who would not be covering their heads but could be 5x praying, fasting, non-fornicating, non-smoking, non-drinking women.

 

Generalizations are not good but generally speaking Iranian females who you would find without a head covering would also be those who would be totally corrupted, drink socially, smoke often, their skirts would more of Nevada strip styles than those of normal American womens' and so on.

 

 

I think that it is much more difficult for Iranians to come to US than Pakistanis. Most of the iranians I see are the ones who are against islamic revolution and they are not religious. Iranians living in US are not a true representation of Iran. While most of Pakistanis living in US are religious. So it's not a fair comparison. If you want to compare, you should compare women living in Iran with women living in Pakistan. 

Edited by Mokhtar2012

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What is the point of the marriage if neither party is getting its rights fulfilled then?

I have no idea, but if my present marriage ever ends I'm never doing it again!

The sad truth is, there are many men that simply cannot afford to support a wife, and keep her at home, and I am talking just looking after her basic needs, such as food and basic clothing. I think its a bit harsh to call these men losers. Many women go out to work nowadays too, to help with the family finances, to give the kids better opportunities. Women shouldn't think that have are above going out to work, ideally yes even I would like to stay at home and be a housewife, sometimes that just isn't possible.

I don't think anyone is condemning men whose wives choose to work or women who work, but men who refuse to work without valid reason so that the wife must support herself and children, or men who do work but hoard their earnings so that the wife is forced to support herself and children.

We also aren't condemning men who are unable to work due to illness or disability.

Please stop with the ethnic stereotyping. We are Muslims, right? Can we try to act like them?

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I don't know about physical abuse, but I asked Sayyed Sistani about a husband forcing his wife to work, and his representative said she doesn't gain the power to divorce, and she must be patient (presumably waiting for the husband to either get off his lazy posterior or divorce her?) but she is no longer obligated to obey him or ask his permission to go out from the house.  So she could leave him, but she wouldn't be divorced unless he divorces her or she finds a jurist to divorce on his behalf.

What are the conditions that allow the woman to end the permanent marriage contract? I've always wondered, discussed it with my friends but we ended up with unclear conclusions which makes me feel that the marriage contract is unbreakable unless the man wished.

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I think that it is much more difficult for Iranians to come to US than Pakistanis. Most of the iranians I see are the ones who are against islamic revolution and they are not religious. Iranians living in US are not a true representation of Iran. While most of Pakistanis living in US are religious. So it's not a fair comparison. If you want to compare, you should compare women living in Iran with women living in Pakistan. 

 

I know tons of Iranians personally who have come here from Iran. Surprisingly a lots of Iranian students still come to the states for their MS/PhDs, surprisingly significantly more than Pakistanis.

 

Like I said, among Iranians in USA, not the revolution runways, but the recent ones, there are two kinds and hardly anybody in between. One kind is chador clad practicing ones, and the other ones are stripper kinds whose skirt size could shame the porn stars. No exaggerations. 

 

Pakistanis have very low numbers who are in extremes. The rest who do hijab are mostly who wear hijab but won't necessary wear black chador, and other ones who won't cover their heads but also won't flash their bodies and won't look, act, lifestyle like strippers either.

 

OP: Divorce rate in a nutshell is increasing because proverbially,

1. The monkey has the razor (aka money and education) in HER hands.

2. There is no despicable creature in the world than a MAN who does not provide for his family (from a hadith). 

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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What are the conditions that allow the woman to end the permanent marriage contract? I've always wondered, discussed it with my friends but we ended up with unclear conclusions which makes me feel that the marriage contract is unbreakable unless the man wished.

As far as I know, she can't.

She can ask a jurist to grant a divorce on behalf of her husband, but most in North America (maybe all, I don't know) will not unless the situation is a matter of life and death.

OP: Divorce rate in a nutshell is increasing because proverbially,

1. The monkey has the razor (aka money and education) in HER hands.

2. There is no despicable creature in the world than a MAN who does not provide for his family (from a hadith).

Perhaps the monkeys are carrying razors because they've seen too many people hurt by those despicable creatures.

Education never hurt anyone. Men and women need to seek both religious and secular knowledge. Only educated mothers raise educated children, daughters and sons.

Money, however, is power and power corrupts.

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My Take: In my past living in LA and also seeing Iranian communities in North East of USA, I would have a real hard time disagreeing with the the author.

 

Here's the article in its full glory:

[EDITED]

 

 

OP:  This is a rant (with references to gheeba from others) from some misguided person full of HATE giving over the top generalizations and stereotyping based on race and gender specifically about Shia sisters… and you posted it and said you would have a hard time disagreeing with it.  Are there any limits on the accepted bashing of Shia sisters?

Edited by Basim Ali

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^^^  :D

 

You got it sister. 

 

Neither money nor the education is bad. In fact education and wisdom is wajib to seek for both men and women. 

Money is part of sustenance (rizq) for which every 10th Aya of Quran testifies to that Allah swt is the ultimate provider.

 

Given to a low wit creature who thinks this is end all and be all, and she turns into a monkey.   


As far as I know, she can't.

She can ask a jurist to grant a divorce on behalf of her husband, but most in North America (maybe all, I don't know) will not unless the situation is a matter of life and death.

Perhaps the monkeys are carrying razors because they've seen too many people hurt by those despicable creatures.

Education never hurt anyone. Men and women need to seek both religious and secular knowledge. Only educated mothers raise educated children, daughters and sons.

Money, however, is power and power corrupts.

^^^   :D

 

You got it sister. 

 

Neither money nor the education is bad. In fact education and wisdom is wajib to seek for both men and women. 

Money is part of sustenance (rizq) for which every 10th Aya of Quran testifies to that Allah swt is the ultimate provider.

 

Given to a low wit creature who thinks this is end all and be all, and she turns into a monkey.   

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^^^  :D

 

You got it sister. 

 

Neither money nor the education is bad. In fact education and wisdom is wajib to seek for both men and women. 

Money is part of sustenance (rizq) for which every 10th Aya of Quran testifies to that Allah swt is the ultimate provider.

 

Given to a low wit creature who thinks this is end all and be all, and she turns into a monkey.   

 

 

 

 

WTH???  No, I dont got it.  Your comments are rude and unacceptable.

Edited by Maryaam

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As far as I know, she can't.

She can ask a jurist to grant a divorce on behalf of her husband, but most in North America (maybe all, I don't know) will not unless the situation is a matter of life and death.

Perhaps the monkeys are carrying razors because they've seen too many people hurt by those despicable creatures.

Education never hurt anyone. Men and women need to seek both religious and secular knowledge. Only educated mothers raise educated children, daughters and sons.

Money, however, is power and power corrupts.

I don't get it. When is Khul'e applied then? I've read hadiths about it but hardly heard of anyone who made it out through khul'e.

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WTH???

Sorry misplaced. I intended to reply sister notme with ^^^^. 

 

Like I said I don't like generalizations but the polarization in personal choices is so evident among Iranian females. Nobody seems to choose the mid ground. Next time you go to LA, MD, DC, NY, or Chicago, please observe this consciously among Iranian females.

 

Before anybody get wrong ideas, I'm not calling all wise Shia sisters out there low wit. 

 

I'm only calling those women, Shia or not, low wits, who with their first job as a lawyer whcih pays say $90,000/yr think a banker with $70,000 is not good enough for her anymore.

 

Most females tend to be more materialistic and as soon as they get possession of material go total burlesque hence the divorces.

Some men are morally corrupt irresponsible boys hence the divorces. 

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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Sorry misplaced. I intended to reply sister notme with ^^^^. 

 

Like I said I don't like generalizations but the polarization in personal choices is so evident among Iranian females. Nobody seems to choose the mid ground. Next time you go to LA, MD, DC, NY, or Chicago, please observe this consciously among Iranian females.

 

I can go to all these cities and observe Pakistani males and some of their disgusting behaviours as well - that does not mean that I post it on a Shia forum and denigrate the entire race and male gender.  

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I can go to all these cities and observe Pakistani males and some of their disgusting behaviours as well - that does not mean that I post it on a Shia forum and denigrate the entire race and male gender.  

 

Exactly my point. All boys and not men. None the marriage material. If a girl marry one such twit, chances are it will ensue in divorce.  

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Wouldn't making generalizations about entire genders and ethnicities be gheeba against all of those people? Doesn't false libel carry an even heavier penalty than true slander?

A good Muslim would not perpetuate negative stereotypes. Maybe some people here aren't good, but they can try.

Let's get off this ethnocentrism and back on topic.

Edited by notme

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I dont understand why families give their daughters to men that dont work,that live of the goverment. It's strange that those same men get jealous of their wifes if they work or successed...

That auther has a crush on american woman. Hopefully the monster he sees under his bed,doesnt kill him...

I dont understand why men have so much control,even when their not doing their part. Even divorce is in his hand,if he divorce under pressure because her family forced him then the divorce is not counted,that's what I heard. It's highly unfair that he has this much authority,even when his in the wrong.

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Exactly my point. All boys and not men. None the marriage material. If a girl marry one such twit, chances are it will ensue in divorce.  

 

That is not your point - your points are not helpful. Denigration of someone is not helpful. Denigration of someone based on race is not helpful. Denigration of someone base on gender is not helpful. Denigration of Shia sisters - no matter how misguided you judge them to be - is not helpful. Posting hate filled rants is not helpful.

 

Sisters who earn money almost 100% put it into their families  -  although it is their right to not do that.  Mothers do without for their children and do their best to provide in spite of all this trash thrown at them.

 

In my work with children, I see LOTS of families where the father/husband has left (yes - this includes Shia), never to be heard from again. Not only do they not provide for their families - they never inquire as to their well being. They disappear.  This is not unique to my city - perhaps your energies would be more helpful if you tried to address the real problems of the world - rather than those based on conjecture and those that have no direct and significant impact on the health and welfare of our communities.  And these issues DO have data and are real.

Edited by Maryaam

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I don't get it. When is Khul'e applied then? I've read hadiths about it but hardly heard of anyone who made it out through khul'e.

I think the wife has to ask the husband to divorce her. I don't know. It really isn't done anymore, is it?

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 address the real problems of the world - rather than those based on conjecture and those that have no direct and significant impact on the health and welfare of our communities.  And these issues DO have data and are real.

Are we talking about divorces here or are we plan to bash the men?

 

Irresponsible men are definitely more in number than women. I don't know if there are stats out there, but most divorces also seem to be caused by mens' shortfall of responsibility or other issues.

 

Hence my other golden words:

90% of divorced women are marriage-able material. They may come with kids but would also come with lots on experience, empathy, and a desire to succeed.

90% of divorced men are non marriage-able material and should be left to their own devices.

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Are we talking about divorces here or are we plan to bash the men?

 

Irresponsible men are definitely more in number than women. I don't know if there are stats out there, but most divorces also seem to be caused by mens' shortfall of responsibility or other issues.

 

 

 

What??  You posted a piece of garbage about Shia women -  don't deflect.

 

Everything you said was blaming Shia sisters - you need some perspective.

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90% of divorced men are non marriage-able material and should be left to their own devices.

I would ALWAYS advise against marrying a divorced man who is not raising his own children and a never married man with children he is not raising. A man who is raising children, whether he was married to their mother or not, is probably marriageable. I would also advise extreme caution if a woman is considering marrying a man over 30 who has never been married. If a man spends too many years alone he becomes unmarriageable. Extenuating circumstances will need to be considered.

Personally, I'd give preference to widowers and divorced and raising children if I were looking.

Edited by notme

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I have no idea, but if my present marriage ever ends I'm never doing it again!

I don't think anyone is condemning men whose wives choose to work or women who work, but men who refuse to work without valid reason so that the wife must support herself and children, or men who do work but hoard their earnings so that the wife is forced to support herself and children.

We also aren't condemning men who are unable to work due to illness or disability.

Please stop with the ethnic stereotyping. We are Muslims, right? Can we try to act like them?

 

Who is stereotyping here?

I would ALWAYS advise against marrying a divorced man who is not raising his own children and a never married man with children he is not raising. A man who is raising children, whether he was married to their mother or not, is probably marriageable. I would also advise extreme caution if a woman is considering marrying a man over 30 who has never been married. If a man spends too many years alone he becomes unmarriageable. Extenuating circumstances will need to be considered.

Personally, I'd give preference to widowers and divorced and raising children if I were looking.

Yeah, you will find the most men don't want the divorcees and widows, disagree with me all you want. And why blame women for divorce rates, some women are pushed to extremes and have no choice but to divorce, it is mostly a last resort for many muslim women.

Edited by Sabrina Abbas

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Yeah, you will find the most men don't want the divorcees and widows, disagree with me all you want.

That is their loss, but I still advise women against marrying men who are likely to be immature or unstable. Raising children tends to cure immaturity and instability.

And yes, women do tend to take marriage more seriously than men.

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I'm only calling those women, Shia or not, low wits, who with their first job as a lawyer whcih pays say $90,000/yr think a banker with $70,000 is not good enough for her anymore.

 

Educated woman dont think that way,it's some men that feel uncomfortable about their wifes earning more then them,their ego will be going down the hill,he cant handle it. If a woman does reject him because he earns less then her,then thats because she's doesnt want to destroy his ego... Not that many men want their woman to be successful in their careers and will plot something against her just so he shows his 'masculinity' and to satisify his ego...

Some men think their wifes are the possessions,that they can play about with them and then throw them when they want. Thats another reason why people get divorced,too...

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Educated woman dont think that way,it's some men that feel uncomfortable about their wifes earning more then them,their ego will be going down the hill,he cant handle it. If a woman does reject him because he earns less then her,then thats because she's doesnt want to destroy his ego... Not that many men want their woman to be successful in their careers and will plot something against her just so he shows his 'masculinity' and to satisify his ego...

Some men think their wifes are the possessions,that they can play about with them and then throw them when they want. Thats another reason why people get divorced,too...

I know a lot of female med student grads who are not willing to marry a man who is not a doctor too

, although some of that pressure can come from the parents.

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I think the wife has to ask the husband to divorce her. I don't know. It really isn't done anymore, is it?

I've not heard of any Khul'e case except those in engagement period (valid contract but no sexual contact). After the wedding, the khul'e is nearly impossible. So i've looked it up again, I am sure i've read a hadith about a woman who came to prophet saying that she "dislikes" her husband, prophet granted her the divorce "khul'e". It seems this is the only case which can allow the woman to go through this process. Imam Sadiq said if the woman said to her husband "By Allah I will not fulfill for you an oath nor obey you in any case nor perform ghusl for janabah . I'd  bring to your bed those whom you hate and bring to home people without your permission (or get out of house without your permission).< pretty extreme but that's how much she should hate him to be granted khul'e. She should be willing to pay him an amount of money or pay him the dowry back. 

6.htm6.gifقال الإمام الصادق عليه السلام: « لا يحلّ خلعها حتى تقول لزوجها: والله لا أبرّ

لك قسماً، ولا أُطيع لك أمراً، ولا اغتسل لك من جنابة، ولأوطئنّ فراشك من تكرهه، ولاُوذننّ عليك بغير إذنك، وقد كان الناس يرخّصون فيما دون هذا، فإذا قالت المرأة ذلك لزوجها حلّ له ما أخذ منها، وكانت عنده على تطليقتين باقيتين، وكان الخلع تطليقة »

 

Since we are talking about why the divorce rate is increasing, for those who are blaming the women, the divorce is in the hands of men.

Edited by Chaotic Muslem

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(salam) All,

 

The point of me making this thread was that we understand that divorce is not a solution to all marriage problems and that marriage is a beautiful bond, a mercy bestowed upon us by Allah(swt). But it has turned in to a stereotyping and generalizations thread. Sad really.  :no:

 

But I thank you all for contributing. 

 

(wasalam)

Edited by Sapphire

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This appears to be a sign of the end of times where divorce is  considered a normal thing...not all marriages work out and its best to leave a marriage where both parties are on different platforms with a different mind set - if you cant get on with each other then its best to leave and move on

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I would ALWAYS advise against marrying a divorced man who is not raising his own children and a never married man with children he is not raising. A man who is raising children, whether he was married to their mother or not, is probably marriageable. I would also advise extreme caution if a woman is considering marrying a man over 30 who has never been married. If a man spends too many years alone he becomes unmarriageable. Extenuating circumstances will need to be considered.

Personally, I'd give preference to widowers and divorced and raising children if I were looking.

 

Can you justify this please???

 

I'm over 30 and have spent my life working for my career so that I can be marriage material. Having a career is what most girls/families want don't they?

 

Some people do like to talk out of their b****

 

Quite the contrary... I see a lot of under 30 men as non marriage material. They are immature and are likely to get divorced because they make rash decisions on their partner. This is nowadays and living in the west.

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Can you justify this please???

I'm over 30 and have spent my life working for my career so that I can be marriage material. Having a career is what most girls/families want don't they?

Some people do like to talk out of their b****

Quite the contrary... I see a lot of under 30 men as non marriage material. They are immature and are likely to get divorced because they make rash decisions on their partner. This is nowadays and living in the west.

I might be wrong. As I stated before, extenuating circumstances will need to be considered. I arrived at this theory based on my own ex- husband and the lives of married friends. Rather than taking offense, recognize that marriage is a serious commitment and caution needs to be exercised.

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I might be wrong. As I stated before, extenuating circumstances will need to be considered. I arrived at this theory based on my own ex- husband and the lives of married friends. Rather than taking offense, recognize that marriage is a serious commitment and caution needs to be exercised.

 

 

You should say that to young men who are driven by hormones... not mature, financially and emotionally stable guys (who are quite likely to be over 30) and genuinely ready to settle down and who values a woman. 

 

Perhaps your own ex-husband is an extenuating circumstance, making your case the exception and not the rule???

 

Who's taking offence? You made a bad discriminatory advert against guys who are over 30. Some girls reading this thread might listen to you, go away and reject guys just because they are over 30.

 

Never judge by someone's age... always by personality. However, in my humble opinion if the guy is at least 15 to 20 years older than the girl then there might be a personality conflict because of different life experiences. But this is a personality thing rather than an age thing.

 

It seems you had a bad experience before and I am sorry to hear that... I wish the best for you sister.

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