Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
14ers

Marital Rape; A Husband's Right

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Check this article out. It was written by Shaykh Hamid Waqar. He discusses marital rape in connection with the wife's obligation to sexually satisfy her husband and the what "hitting in marriage means." Curious to see if people agree with the conclusion that he suggests.

 

Marital Rape; A Husband's Right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2014 at 1:21 AM, Deewan said:

The very title of the article "Marital Rape; Husband's Right?" is nauseating, but I forced myself to read on anyways. It exemplifies all that is wrong with Muslim communities today: How about looking at spousal rape for what it is--the worst possible breach of trust that a wife would have for her husband--instead of some sort of an abstract theoretical question on 'husband's rights' and 'domestic violence'.

I'm afraid you're out of touch with reality, as is evident from your elementary understanding of assault and of domestic violence. You can't just reduce Islam to a single aspect of itself, it's legal code, which in itself is starting to reeks of dead flesh because of the rigidities placed on it by unimaginative exponents. The very premise of sexual activity is mutual love and admiration of the partners for each other. One doesn't need to look very deep into the Quran or the Prophetic Tradition to see how much emphasis God and His Prophet have placed on loving relationships and specific instructions that promote intimate relationship. Way to go in throwing water all over that. Essentially, what you're advocating as legal can best be described as the husband masturbating with his wife's body, and at worst it's an irreversible physical and psychological violation of the wife that shakes the core of her being.

From a medical point of view, I couldn't agree with Maryaam any more. Very few assaults or other types of unwanted sexual contact leave any lasting physical damage. So rest assured, I'll rarely see 'marital rape equated with domestic violence' that you are referring to. In fact, many women do not even report rapes, especially spousal rapes, for very long periods. By the time they do seek help, if at all, they've already suffered psychologically. The reason for that are the perverse social structures erected by people like you who fail to see blatant disregard for another human being's well-being that your words and ideologies carry.

I'm glad you took the time to reconsider the question you were asked and were able to come up with a slightly more nuanced answer the second time around. You've even consulted some books on the topic of marriage. How about seeking the counsel of doctors, psychologists, community & social workers, and perhaps even women who've been raped. You live in Sydney, you wouldn't have to go very far or look very hard to find this resources.

Salaams, thank you for not pulling any punches and clearly expressing your views. I do appreciate that, although the tone was a little insulting, but I'm a big boy and can handle that. Fortunately I have not been raped, although I'm sure in my time in the penitentiary I might have been a target, Allah has protected me and for that reason I could never try to put myself in the shoes of anybody who has. The article was written from a purely legal perspective which did not allow for many of the issues that you brought up to be addressed. The psychological scares that definitely occur when a barbaric husband practices this action must be horrendous. There is no question about that. Unfortunately, I have not seen one of the maraja' address that question. My opinion would be that it would be religiously reprehensible to put one's wife through that, but I would need to see that directly being used by the experts of Islamic law for that to have weight. The entire issue of psychological stress has not been touched upon in great detail. Since this is my field of study for the last couple of years (and by no means am I an expert in it) I would love to see it more addressed and see how these forms of "harm" can be applied to some of our Islamic principles. Insha'Allah in time. Once again, thank you for your opinions, may Allah reward you. 

I have updated the conclusion of the article after review. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2014 at 12:19 AM, Maryaam said:

The response is unclear and dodges around answering the question - pretty common response for this question though.  Seems to be it is ok to rape your wife if you don't leave a bruise? Emotional betrayal and psychological scars will outlast any physical harm done, by eons. A wife should always feel totally protected and secure with her husband. 

A husband should always feel secure with his wife as well, and therefore sexual right is for both, and she cannot deny it. If there are other problems with the husband, like he mistreats her etc. she usually can file a complaint to a jurist. So yes, she has many rights, as well, so does the husband.

But in the West I know of some cases which also turned out to be blackmailing the husband, in which the wife sued her husband for having raped her, which is absolute nonsense in a marriage and you can't even prove it, if it was rape or sex by consent. The husband in those cases were sent to prison for raping their wives. Funny, no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2014 at 4:28 AM, Deewan said:

I know. And the point of my response to convey that your rhetoric is sickening.

I'm really uncertain as to what you're trying to say with the news articles you've linked. Would you care to elaborate?

Thank you for the first one/insult. I could say the same about yours but I don't.

Never mind.

As to the second request:

"He said the complaint was not made to police until November that year after the woman was told her husband had started legal proceedings to allow him to see the couple's son, whom she had taken interstate."

Source: First link

How on earth do you want to prove after months or years that the wife was raped or had sex by consent? You can't do it, except you have witnesses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2014 at 4:35 AM, lover said:

Thank you for the first one/insult. I could say the same about yours but I don't.

Never mind.

As to the second request:

"He said the complaint was not made to police until November that year after the woman was told her husband had started legal proceedings to allow him to see the couple's son, whom she had taken interstate."

Source: First link

How on earth do you want to prove after months or years that the wife was raped or had sex by consent? You can't do it, except you have witnesses.

Well, if that's the case, how can you prove any rape that has occurred without witness whether it was spousal rape or otherwise? Most rapes or cases of sexual assault are not reported for years until after they occur.

Did you actually even read through what you linked prior to posting it? Here's an excerpt from the second link you posted...

Quote

The charges stemmed from a domestic incident on October 8 2013 after the defendant had engaged in a ten day drinking binge. During a previous court appearance, it was heard how the man’s ten-year-old son jumped from an upstairs window and ran to his aunt’s house to raise the alarm. The constable said the breathless child told the woman, “Daddy’s killing mummy.”

You can call my arguments sickening if that helps you feel better. But I'm not the one who is trivializing rape.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2014 at 4:44 AM, Deewan said:

You can call my arguments sickening if that helps you feel better. But I'm not the one who is trivializing rape.

Yeh alright, it doesn't make much sense discussing with people who accuse others when they present their arguments.

Have a nice day/night.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2014 at 3:33 AM, Deewan said:

You've qualified the article by saying that it discusses the issue of spousal rape within a specific legal sense. But these arbitrary boundaries shouldn't exist. In fact, someone who's been through abuse won't read this article and think that this is the legal stuff, now let me look at what else there is. This will simply be seen as "what Islam says about spousal rape". Instead, what you write and say should inspire confidence in the minds of those who have undergone abuse or may be subjected to it in the future, to have the confidence to speak up, to feel that their community and their religious compatriots care for them and will understand what they've been through. It should also clearly call out abusers and potential abusers, for what they really are and give them no excuse or space to commit their heinous acts under the umbrella of Islam. Anything short of that would be abdication of duty and that's already quite prevalent in our communities. I don't need to point out how corrosive that is to the well-being of individuals, families, and the overall community.

Once again, thank you for this. I will take this into account in the future and with your prayers I will be able to be a voice for such victims. May Allah help them all. You have opened my eyes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No means No whether you are married or not. Sheesh. What kind of sick people rape their wives? Also, I find it disturbing Islam promotes this by ordering women to sexually please their husbands whenever. Does a man just come in and do his business like with a sex slave? :/

Edited by El Cid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2014 at 7:37 AM, El Cid said:

No means No whether you are married or not. Sheesh. What kind of sick people rape their wives?

I think the Islamic law about raping is not about allowing rape but about disallowing accusation against husbands of raping, because then every woman could extort their husbands, if there was "marital rape".

-Just my opinion-

Also marital rape in the Western sense is not always connected to violence, but also as in the first case I have posted above you can read that no violence was involved but it was still called rape.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2014 at 3:44 AM, lover said:

A husband should always feel secure with his wife as well, and therefore sexual right is for both, and she cannot deny it. If there are other problems with the husband, like he mistreats her etc. she usually can file a complaint to a jurist. So yes, she has many rights, as well, so does the husband.

But in the West I know of some cases which also turned out to be blackmailing the husband, in which the wife sued her husband for having raped her, which is absolute nonsense in a marriage and you can't even prove it, if it was rape or sex by consent. The husband in those cases were sent to prison for raping their wives. Funny, no?

That would be the same for any false claim of criminal behaviour - she could have accused him of stealing from her or holding her hostage or abusing their children. No false claim is funny.

The wife should never be in fear of her husband - so much so - that she has to guard herself against him and not feel safe and secure.  In a marriage, trust is imperative. Rape is not an act of marital intimacy born of sexual need, but one born of violence and anger. It is akin to beating her up - but worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2014 at 10:16 AM, Maryaam said:

That would be the same for any false claim of criminal behaviour - she could have accused him of stealing from her or holding her hostage or abusing their children. No false claim is funny.

The wife should never be in fear of her husband - so much so - that she has to guard herself against him and not feel safe and secure.  In a marriage, trust is imperative. Rape is not an act of marital intimacy born of sexual need, but one born of violence and anger. It is akin to beating her up - but worse.

Please read my answer above your comment.

As for the rest of your argument:

Lets turn it into this: In Islam a woman cannot sue her husband for "marital rape", I gave you three cases above as to maybe why.

If it is a good thing to do(rape) in a marriage or not, and a trustworthy thing, this is completely another issue, and is another type of discussion.

Also whether it is a good thing for a wife to deny it to her husband - except for, if there is a real reason for that, which Islam also considers, like serious complication and illness etc.

This means not that a man should rape his wife, even if she denies sex to him. Any man whom his wife denies sex to him should ask himself, why.

And the second point: abide by the laws of the country. But this is always a problem in case of rape, women can accuse men of rape whenever they want and if they are strangers you can proove that through DNA test but in case of marital rape you will always find male DNA as they are/were married. It is simply not going to work in case of accused 'marital rape'. I wonder why women don't file for divorce, when they feel they are raped. Even in Islam filing for divorce is allowed.

And as the above article also says, violence against wife is not allowed in Islam:

"The conclusion of this article discusses what type of “strike” can be inflicted upon a wife. It states: “Therefore, the striking must be soft. It cannot result in a bone being broken, and injury, or even a bruise. This amount of a strike is also only reserved when all other methods of preventing misconduct has been exerted. Furthermore, it would be an extreme measure that is unlikely to solve severe marriage disputes.”"

So indeed in Islam there doesn't exist any "marital rape", as you are not allowed to hit your wife.

So the term "Islam allows 'marital rape'" is wrong in itself and illogical. In Islam it is the duty of both to satisfy the sexual desires of each other, except if there are serious complications and/or illnesses as stated above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2014 at 10:16 AM, Maryaam said:

That would be the same for any false claim of criminal behaviour - she could have accused him of stealing from her or holding her hostage or abusing their children. No false claim is funny.

The wife should never be in fear of her husband - so much so - that she has to guard herself against him and not feel safe and secure.  In a marriage, trust is imperative. Rape is not an act of marital intimacy born of sexual need, but one born of violence and anger. It is akin to beating her up - but worse.

Why is that we always hear about how men should give up one of the (very) few marital rights they have, but never anything on how women try to take away the God given rights of the husband, such as divorce?

Islam is built upon equality. What you're suggesting is that Islam be built upon a system of wife pampering and living under her conditions, not that of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is that we always hear about how men should give up one of the (very) few marital rights they have, but never anything on how women try to take away the God given rights of the husband, such as divorce?

Islam is built upon equality. What you're suggesting is that Islam be built upon a system of wife pampering and living under her conditions, not that of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. 

  Rape is not a marital right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  Rape is not a marital right.

The wife has no right to restrict her husband from his marital right of intercourse whenever he pleases. Call it what you want, sugarcoat it too, but it won't work. Read what the Scholars say please instead of going by your desires. 

Edited by Al-Afasy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/17/2014 at 12:48 PM, Abu Hadi said:

Salam, 

A few points to consider on this

1. Islam does not allow rape at all, whether spousal rape of any other kind. For my statement, I will take the common definition of rape, which is a sexual act that is accompanied by violence. If there is violence, there will be evidence of that, even a small bruise or a red mark. It is not allowed because violence against anyone, including the spouse is not allowed except in cases which are clearly defined in the Sharia. This accusation, mostly made by non muslim (but unfortuantely made by some ignorant muslims also) is completely and totally baseless and I would and have challenged anyone to bring me one, even one, solid piece of evidence from Quran or authentic hadith that it is allowed. 

Brother, the laws of West don't see physical violence as a condition of/proof for rape, read case one above for that. With this vague law-making it is possible that every husband could be accused of rape. There are even cases in which wives have accused their husbands of rape, years later, where none of those bruises can be proven.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marital rape is a very recent concept; you might think holding your wife to the bed is all that constitutes marital rape but the definition goes as far to include merely a 'feeling' of obligation to satisfy the husband whenever, when theres other things on her mind. The meaning is very broad and is a byproduct of the individualist philosophy feminism is based on, not allowing for any 'dependance' whatsoever. The definition of rape has been constantly expanded on by feminists over the modern era, even ambiguous sexual activity that begins with consent has been filed under the heading of 'date rape'. These charactarizations of rape were so far-fetched that many European countries didn't even consider criminalizing 'marital rape' until well into the 80's and 90's.

I think that was a rather well written article, its good to see he clarified on the fact that forcing yourself is wrong and pretty damn obvious.

On 4/17/2014 at 7:37 AM, El Cid said:

No means No whether you are married or not. Sheesh. What kind of sick people rape their wives? Also, I find it disturbing Islam promotes this by ordering women to sexually please their husbands whenever. Does a man just come in and do his business like with a sex slave? :/

He already states clearly forced sex isn't permitted, read the article fully you imbecile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ That presupposes that the sense that is common is the good sense. If common sense says a man should force his wife to have sex with him, regardless of how she feels about it, then im not so sure it is good sense. This has nothing to do with 'feminism', its to do with having a sense for whats good.

 

I rather incline towards the view that when ever either partner demands more from their partner than they know is healthy for them to give (either for their own well being or the well being of the relationship) then they are sacrificing their better selves and the security of the relationship for desires of a lower order. The Quran tells us marriages are meant to be loving/supportive unions; so you work on your issues and differences with this in mind. If your relationship has become so abusive that you demand to the point of damaging the other person, the kindest thing might be to leave their life to minimise the suffering youre causing. This of course goes both ways - whether youre a person who recognises that they desire things beyond whats healthy for the other person to provide, or if youre a person who recognises you cant provide whats reasonable and health for the other person to ask for. The mature thing to do would be to recognise these realties and either work lovingly to change them or part.

 

To propagate this notion that wives should submit to their husbands advances, as if a slave, is ugly and on very shaky ground, as it is a notion completely ignorant of the every day realities of peoples relationships and so utterly absurd in practical terms. If women went around submitting to sex literally  whenever their husbands wanted, irrespective of what was happening in their relationship, it would only serve to cause resentment and disgust, damage the relationship and reduce the act itself to that of an animal. Show me where the Quran teaches us to act like impulsive animals. Ive noticed people throwing around ahadith about the necessity for foreplay - whats the point in foreplay if your wife is upset because her husband is attempting to force himself on her knowing its the last thing she wants or needs at that moment. The whole thing is oddly incongruous to say the least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Ruq, it seems that you have made the same mistake, as some others here, not read the article and the comments above, especially Jahangiram's precise post and just write a random post which has nothing to do with the main topic at all, except for the title 'marital rape',

No one here was advocating 'marital rape' and called it islamic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marital rape is a very recent concept; you might think holding your wife to the bed is all that constitutes marital rape but the definition goes as far to include merely a 'feeling' of obligation to satisfy the husband whenever, when theres other things on her mind. The meaning is very broad and is a byproduct of the individualist philosophy feminism is based on, not allowing for any 'dependance' whatsoever. The definition of rape has been constantly expanded on by feminists over the modern era, even ambiguous sexual activity that begins with consent has been filed under the heading of 'date rape'. These charactarizations of rape were so far-fetched that many European countries didn't even consider criminalizing 'marital rape' until well into the 80's and 90's.

 

I think that was a rather well written article, its good to see he clarified on the fact that forcing yourself is wrong and pretty damn obvious.

He already states clearly forced sex isn't permitted, read the article fully you imbecile.

 

No, why would I waste my time on some schizophrenic mindset bent on rape? No wonder white women won't talk to us, Look at the people in our community. :dry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Ruq, it seems that you have made the same mistake, as some others here, not read the article and the comments above, especially Jahangiram's precise post and just write a random post which has nothing to do with the main topic at all, except for the title 'marital rape',

No one here was advocating 'marital rape' and called it islamic.

 

I wasnt just talking about rape as in physically forced sex, i was talking about the notion of obligation; that a person should be obligated to be intimate with their partner regardless of what else is happening in their relationship. Most people recognise this as a recipe for disaster, so notions like this dont translate into behaviour in the real world. Unless youre brute. This isnt a gender issue, trust that i know women can be as brutal as men in their behaviour. The Quran simply says marriages are relationships of kindness, affection and mercy.

If youre actions in your marriage are motivated by kindness, you have nothing to worry about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you atheist or still utterly immature? Why everything which comes out of your brains seem to attack Islam? Attacking Islam is out of fashion you know, we are not living in 70s anymore.

 I agree. Feminists are the biggest enemies of womankind. 

 

Islam legally does promote the idea that man can take her whenever he wants. But that's just one dimension. Islamic Akhlaq forces the man to be gentle and be cognizant of wife's feelings. Islamic fiqh also forces man to be the provider, physically, emotionally, and mentally, besides fulfilling her basic needs. Jurists go as far as dictating men to provide not the just the basic necessities but to the extent which is equivalent to his status of living and is norm in current popular lifestyles. So a millionaire husband can't keep his so called sex slave in an apartment because that's not equivalent to his status. He has to treat all women in his wilaya as his legal wives enjoying equal or almost equal share of his wealth.

 

If you loose yourself in only Islamic legalities, then legally the wife would start charging you money for cooking food, upkeep of children, of breastfeeding the babies, and so on, and at sex time she would be just lying there dead as a peice of wood so you relieve yourself and go. 

 

Islam is not all about Halal and Haram folks. Halal and Haram only dictate a boundary of what must be done and what must be avoided.

The real beauty of Islam is in following Mustahbat (recommended acts) and not doing Makroohat (discouraged acts).

:Mashallah beautiful words bro , so much wisdom and knowledge .

When are you going to apply all this in real life and finally get married?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam,

Feminists don't really have what is called "common sense".  One can't argue with a feminist.   For all the bachelors out there, just pray you never get married to a feminist.

No sure what's more stupid,you or your comment....

Another reason why polygamy is a must sisters , four against one .

He wouldn't dare .

More like another reason why woman delay marriage...

If material rape is okay with some of you then you should go check your self's out. That's mainly at the ones that try to justife the act and make it seem fine because you know a man can get what he want's when he want's....

Honestly,some of you sound like under cover rapists..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...