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Wisdom Lion

Liberal "muslims On Sc And Solution

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Too much ground has been given to many individuals on here claiming to be Muslim openly are supporting haters of Islam against others who are speaking the truth about Islamic beliefs, exposing different religions based on objectivity and not subjectivity but yet are getting slandered by other "Muslims" and insulted.

On the chat I've seen people claiming to be Muslims but discussing haram things, homosexuality to be one, which is extremely strange. Other non shia users are thinking " is this type of "humor" within Islam" it's not.

Other comments have been anti Iran comments and yet have no historical backing and are considered spanning when it's a complete lie and clearly has another agenda.

Moderators ban the people who claim explicitly, in their profile who say they are Shia and are making anti Islam marks

Banning non Shia who non Islamic thing shouldn't be banned, as there are not Shia, they should be banned if they start saying crazy things just like any other person though

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The root of all evil is woman. Islam despises such creatures. Ban them all and secure our FREEDOMS!

 

(wasalam)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please dont take it serious :dry:

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That's not something to joke about either, I don't think it's appropriate for that humor on shiachat.

If it was a forum that had a different name than "Shia" in it than even though it's not right it would be applied.

But every Shia's duty is to give the best image possible on Shiachat without going astray as Sunnis and non Muslims will see it and could potentially look negatively upon Shia's or associate that behavior with them.

Only not saying haram things, or things that allure haram things, friendly convos about various topics that are not religious is fine though, unless it leads to something haram also.

In Islam capital punishment is for those who are causing trouble in the land, which is for severe actions.

On the web on a shiachat website, that could be translating banning those who are negatively impacting the view of Shia the religion

Shiachat moderators already ban those who speak explicitly negatively about Islam, the Prophets, Imams , and recently about Mutah.

That banning is for aggressive individuals but passive aggressive campaign on shiachat should be taken seriously I believe.

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That joke is soo outdated, and its not acceptable in any form... It's not even funny...

Most people with brains will not judge one person view and make it a universal judgment. I agree thou that we can fix up on things,but not everyone will fix up.

We should be a bit more friendly but if someone is accusing you or attacking you for no logical reasons then you cant always hold your temper.. And plus some people make up accusitions that you havnt even said to argue...

Solution is to keep calm and eat sweets,lol.

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That's not something to joke about either, I don't think it's appropriate for that humor on shiachat.

 

 

I wasnt joking. I see this BS all the time on this site, its SOOO aggravating to be honest. One side hating women and trying to attach Islam to it, while the other side trying to prove them right with always bringing such ignorant topics on such issues. It saddens me, but then I remember the people on this site which such ideology hold .00000000000000000000000000000000000001 % of such views. Just ignore it all.

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I wasnt joking. I see this BS all the time on this site, its SOOO aggravating to be honest. One side hating women and trying to attach Islam to it, while the other side trying to prove them right with always bringing such ignorant topics on such issues. It saddens me, but then I remember the people on this site which such ideology hold .00000000000000000000000000000000000001 % of such views. Just ignore it all.

Salam,

How can you be so sure that their is just a low percentage of them that actually hold these views? I think its much higher then you think,lol.

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Salam,

How can you be so sure that their is just a low percentage of them that actually hold these views? I think its much higher then you think,lol.

 

Which Shia Imami Mosques (particularly women) have ever had such issues on these "views" in Islam? Please show me. Go to iran or iraq, go see the womans howza. Ask them to tell you their opinion on your views, you will get your answer. With due respect, if these topics you speak about have a miniscule blame because of Islam, then why dont we ever hear/see it by our scholars/ayatollahs/Marjas whoever? All these issues said on this site have to do with upbringing. Even talking about culture, what is culture but traditions made by peoples views. Everything goes back to us humans. Stop blaming religion for everything. Start with yourselves. Im saying this to everyone....

 

(wasalam)

Edited by PureEthics

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Which Shia Imami Mosques (particularly women) have ever had such issues on these "views" in Islam? Please show me. Go to iran or iraq, go see the womans howza. Ask them to tell you their opinion on your views, you will get your answer. With due respect, if these topics you speak about have a miniscule blame because of Islam, then why dont we ever hear/see it by our scholars/ayatollahs/Marjas whoever? All these issues said on this site have to do with upbringing. Even talking about culture, what is culture but traditions made by peoples views. Everything goes back to us humans. Stop blaming religion for everything. Start with yourselves. Im saying this to everyone....

 

(wasalam)

Your really random, I was talking about one thing and you asked questions about another thing... What I was saying is some people do blame woman and do truley believe woman are the cause of evil and they can even bring ahdaith to back them up, I dont need to show you anything you can see that for yourself on these site and other sites...

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Your really random, I was talking about one thing and you asked questions about another thing... What I was saying is some people do blame woman and do truley believe woman are the cause of evil and they can even bring ahdaith to back them up, I dont need to show you anything you can see that for yourself on these site and other sites...

 

LOL So if I bring a hadith saying dragons are real then they must be? There is two at fault here, first one being the ignorant nutjob who believes in these hadiths while understands that almost all prophets and imams had wives and they were treated above the status of queens and the countless hadths by Muhammad on the status of women, and two, the ignorant one who takes and believes such rubbish from that nutjob without actually seeing if any such thing was supported by any marja or renowned scholar.

Edited by PureEthics

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Too much ground has been given to many individuals on here claiming to be Muslim openly are supporting haters of Islam against others who are speaking the truth about Islamic beliefs, exposing different religions based on objectivity and not subjectivity but yet are getting slandered by other "Muslims" and insulted.

On the chat I've seen people claiming to be Muslims but discussing haram things, homosexuality to be one, which is extremely strange. Other non shia users are thinking " is this type of "humor" within Islam" it's not.

Other comments have been anti Iran comments and yet have no historical backing and are considered spanning when it's a complete lie and clearly has another agenda.

Moderators ban the people who claim explicitly, in their profile who say they are Shia and are making anti Islam marks

Banning non Shia who non Islamic thing shouldn't be banned, as there are not Shia, they should be banned if they start saying crazy things just like any other person though

(salam)

I really do not mean to be disrespectful brother, but I find it a shame when one addresses an audience without giving them the salam.

I guess everyone has to improve oneself before preaching.

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LOL So if I bring a hadith saying dragons are real then they must be? There is two at fault here, first one being the ignorant nutjob who believes in these hadiths while understands that almost all prophets and imams had wives and they were treated above the status of queens and the countless hadths by Muhammad on the status of women, and two, the ignorant one who takes and believes such rubbish from that nutjob without actually seeing if any such thing was supported by any marja or renowned scholar.

From what am seeing some people do believe in hadaith people post blindly or maybe they just want a reason to believe in them. It would be great if they do some reasearch... Lol, ask a scientiest and they will tell or some will tell you drangons are real.. Prove is in the drangon fly,looool. Am joking,before you ask for prove...

M3salama

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I wasnt joking. I see this BS all the time on this site, its SOOO aggravating to be honest. One side hating women and trying to attach Islam to it, while the other side trying to prove them right with always bringing such ignorant topics on such issues. It saddens me, but then I remember the people on this site which such ideology hold .00000000000000000000000000000000000001 % of such views. Just ignore it all.

 

True, dear brother.

Edited by Ali-F

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It's fresh to talk about behavior from you though....you need to fix your own behavior first bro.

Your aqeeda isn't the issue, as i probably agree with 95% of it, but your akhlagh is not of the best kind. 

 

Just saying.

 

ALL HAIL THE BEAST !! -fangirl scream-

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Too much ground has been given to many individuals on here claiming to be Muslim openly are supporting haters of Islam against others who are speaking the truth about Islamic beliefs, exposing different religions based on objectivity and not subjectivity but yet are getting slandered by other "Muslims" and insulted.

 

Sounds like you're just mad because some of us have manners or a different point of view.

 

1. It's okay to try to discuss the flaws you feel exist in others' thought in a polite and educated manner, it's another thing to just stroke yourself and act superior while disregarding anybody's opinion but your own when people call you out for behaving in an uneducated or narrow minded manner.

 

2. This is an international forum for Shia Muslims from all walks of life and cultures as well as those with personal and academic interest in the faith. If you can't handle some of them having different political or spiritual views than your own or wanting to discuss controversial subjects because they are relevant to their life, you need to leave.

 

3. This is ShiaChat, not IranChat. None of us are obligated to excessively laud over Iran and we have every right to criticize or question certain things Iranians do or have done that we feel may be contrary to the Islamic ethos it professes. Not all of us idolize Ayatollah Khomeini or consider the Supreme Leader to be our marja-i taqlid and just because we don't think the Iranian Revolution of '79 was the absolute greatest thing since sliced bread doesn't mean we are supporting the enemies of Islam or Ahlul Bayt. Seriously, this kind of attitude makes you sound like those hardcore Israeli apologists who think that any Jew who says the treatment of the Palestinians by Israel is unfair is automatically a self-hating Jew. Just because some people here think that maybe Iranian authorities shouldn't hang teenage homosexuals from metal cranes doesn't mean we are justifying American sanctions on an independent nation that is not threatening anyone outside its borders that isn't threatening it already. 

 

you need to get a clue, brother. 

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Sounds like you're just mad because some of us have manners or a different point of view.

 

1. It's okay to try to discuss the flaws you feel exist in others' thought in a polite and educated manner, it's another thing to just stroke yourself and act superior while disregarding anybody's opinion but your own when people call you out for behaving in an uneducated or narrow minded manner.

 

2. This is an international forum for Shia Muslims from all walks of life and cultures as well as those with personal and academic interest in the faith. If you can't handle some of them having different political or spiritual views than your own or wanting to discuss controversial subjects because they are relevant to their life, you need to leave.

 

3. This is ShiaChat, not IranChat. None of us are obligated to excessively laud over Iran and we have every right to criticize or question certain things Iranians do or have done that we feel may be contrary to the Islamic ethos it professes. Not all of us idolize Ayatollah Khomeini or consider the Supreme Leader to be our marja-i taqlid and just because we don't think the Iranian Revolution of '79 was the absolute greatest thing since sliced bread doesn't mean we are supporting the enemies of Islam or Ahlul Bayt. Seriously, this kind of attitude makes you sound like those hardcore Israeli apologists who think that any Jew who says the treatment of the Palestinians by Israel is unfair is automatically a self-hating Jew. Just because some people here think that maybe Iranian authorities shouldn't hang teenage homosexuals from metal cranes doesn't mean we are justifying American sanctions on an independent nation that is not threatening anyone outside its borders that isn't threatening it already. 

 

you need to get a clue, brother. 

 

I didn't state anywhere that Iran has to excessively lauded, or that it can't be criticized. I said comments that have no historical backing and are lies should not be tolerated. If it is a true criticism of Iran than it would be fine, if it's a lie and spamming it's not.

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I didn't state anywhere that Iran has to excessively lauded, or that it can't be criticized. I said comments that have no historical backing and are lies should not be tolerated. If it is a true criticism of Iran than it would be fine, if it's a lie and spamming it's not.

 

You didn't provide any example of this behavior though. And it's not spamming just cause it passes the thresh hold of what you believe are valid criticisms. 

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It's fresh to talk about behavior from you though....you need to fix your own behavior first bro.

Your aqeeda isn't the issue, as i probably agree with 95% of it, but your akhlagh is not of the best kind. 

 

Just saying.

That's your opinion of me, and I have my opinion of you too. It says much about your nature though, and glad you've exposed that with your direct comment on an indirect thread.

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Sometimes it is true. You find many Shia on Shiachat agreeing with stuff that are 100000% against Islam, and I don't want to name. They think most (if not all) Islamic Laws are outdated (how can a Divine Law be outdated?).

They will one day learn, or eventually be left behind. Survival of the fittest!

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(salam)

 

Liberalism is an intellectual ideology, and so to buttress it, you need to present an intellectual alternative. As it stands right now, many Shi`as are sensationalists who think that the religion should revolve around their cultures, dubious and recycled stories, and innovations. Islam needs to be renewed and presented in the West as a viable alternative to secular humanism. Until then, we'll be treated like Christianity at best and a voodoo-cult at worst. Alhamdulillah, there have been recent initiatives at bringing traditional Islamic arguments to the academic crowd, but a lot of this goes on in small elite circles. Unlike feminism, for example, Islamic intellectualism has not yet caught onto the masses.

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(salam)

 

Liberalism is an intellectual ideology, and so to buttress it, you need to present an intellectual alternative. As it stands right now, many Shi`as are sensationalists who think that the religion should revolve around their cultures, dubious and recycled stories, and innovations. Islam needs to be renewed and presented in the West as a viable alternative to secular humanism. Until then, we'll be treated like Christianity at best and a voodoo-cult at worst. Alhamdulillah, there have been recent initiatives at bringing traditional Islamic arguments to the academic crowd, but a lot of this goes on in small elite circles. Unlike feminism, for example, Islamic intellectualism has not yet caught onto the masses.

That does not mean we completely destroy our values to please the so called "updated Western civilization", as some are suggesting. Supporting acts of the people of Prophet Lut (a.s), for example.

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(salam)

 

Liberalism is an intellectual ideology, and so to buttress it, you need to present an intellectual alternative. As it stands right now, many Shi`as are sensationalists who think that the religion should revolve around their cultures, dubious and recycled stories, and innovations. Islam needs to be renewed and presented in the West as a viable alternative to secular humanism. Until then, we'll be treated like Christianity at best and a voodoo-cult at worst. Alhamdulillah, there have been recent initiatives at bringing traditional Islamic arguments to the academic crowd, but a lot of this goes on in small elite circles. Unlike feminism, for example, Islamic intellectualism has not yet caught onto the masses.

True statement. The other statements should be restudied. Are we comparing the Shia masses with the Western academia OR the Shia Academia with western masses? I think what we should be looking for is Shia academia for Shia masses or Shia masses (Shia teachings for publics) for western masses.

The approach should differ in each case. It is unfair and unwise to compare a shia farmer preferences with western academic preferences.

 

 

Liberalism is an intellectual ideology, and so to buttress it, you need to present an intellectual alternative. As it stands right now, many Shi`as are sensationalists who think that the religion should revolve around their cultures, dubious and recycled stories, and innovations. Islam needs to be renewed and presented in the West as a viable alternative to secular humanism. Until then, we'll be treated like Christianity at best and a voodoo-cult at worst. Alhamdulillah, there have been recent initiatives at bringing traditional Islamic arguments to the academic crowd, but a lot of this goes on in small elite circles. Unlike feminism, for example, Islamic intellectualism has not yet caught onto the masses.

 

 

 

 

I don't know how you came up with that conclusion but it is as harmful as the dubious stories. I lived in Shia environment that is medium for many debates to reform khums system, rethink it, filter the Shia books from dubious stories, reorganize the major books, revaluate the methods of teaching and daily criticism of those on pulpit. I can safely say that all these measures did not mount up to any progress in the Shia community as a community. You cannot expect a change to the better when you are basing your whole plan on wrong idea.

 

You are making me thing that if islam was not re-innovated then it dose not worth the time of those intellectuals humans in the west, it is a religion for the less intellectual humans of the east. As if Islam is eastern innovation to start with. You are making me think that those who reject Islam have a point and rightful to do so, because Islam in its current form (or shia islam, particularly 12er) is false. Then those who left christianity due to the falsehood of that religion can also leave this religion without any guilt. 

Islam, my friend , is no innovations among religions. Islam will pass with the very same phases as other religions. Muslims do not deny that Islam was/is/will be changed. It is prophetic prophecy and it is accepted by all Muslims. BUT as christians knew that their religion was changed but they stuck to it before the message of our prophet, Muslims should stick to this religion until the Mahdi comes, the one who will bring this religion alive again. Those who left christianity should know that they left it because it is falsehood AND because it is the truth. The truth is, even if christianity was not changed, sill, the christians are expected to leave it. Truth also is that before our prophet message, Christians were expected to stick to christianity even though their religion was changed.

 

Islam should not be looked as replacement of secularism or humanism. Islam is the origin and is the truth, the rest are just illusions. Sometimes people like to follow illusions. To replace these illusions with fake deformed , remodeled islam is simply replacing an illusion with another illusion.

 

Liberalism is an intellectual ideology, and so to buttress it, you need to present an intellectual alternative. As it stands right now, many Shi`as are sensationalists who think that the religion should revolve around their cultures, dubious and recycled stories, and innovations. Islam needs to be renewed and presented in the West as a viable alternative to secular humanism. Until then, we'll be treated like Christianity at best and a voodoo-cult at worst. Alhamdulillah, there have been recent initiatives at bringing traditional Islamic arguments to the academic crowd, but a lot of this goes on in small elite circles. Unlike feminism, for example, Islamic intellectualism has not yet caught onto the masses

 

Take it from a sister to her brother, if you tried to deform islam to meet ANY standard other than Allah's, you will fail. Islam should be presented the way Allah wanted it to be presented, they way Ahlulbayt wanted it to be presented. Islam should be presented to its seekers, it should not be presented to please some elites or to read some compliments in fancy academic papers. These are shortly lived gains if they can be called gains.

 

 

Liberalism is an intellectual ideology, and so to buttress it, you need to present an intellectual alternative. As it stands right now, many Shi`as are sensationalists who think that the religion should revolve around their cultures, dubious and recycled stories, and innovations. Islam needs to be renewed and presented in the West as a viable alternative to secular humanism. Until then, we'll be treated like Christianity at best and a voodoo-cult at worst. Alhamdulillah, there have been recent initiatives at bringing traditional Islamic arguments to the academic crowd, but a lot of this goes on in small elite circles. Unlike feminism, for example, Islamic intellectualism has not yet caught onto the masses

 

It is the sunnah of Allah really, read the Quran and you shall find it all over it. People will always mock religion. Pleasing people is not our goal in this Dunyia.

 

Liberalism is an intellectual ideology, and so to buttress it, you need to present an intellectual alternative. As it stands right now, many Shi`as are sensationalists who think that the religion should revolve around their cultures, dubious and recycled stories, and innovations. Islam needs to be renewed and presented in the West as a viable alternative to secular humanism. Until then, we'll be treated like Christianity at best and a voodoo-cult at worst. Alhamdulillah, there have been recent initiatives at bringing traditional Islamic arguments to the academic crowd, but a lot of this goes on in small elite circles. Unlike feminism, for example, Islamic intellectualism has not yet caught onto the masses

 

Why do you give big importance to academic crowd? 3abasa wa tawalla?

 

Liberalism is an intellectual ideology, and so to buttress it, you need to present an intellectual alternative. As it stands right now, many Shi`as are sensationalists who think that the religion should revolve around their cultures, dubious and recycled stories, and innovations. Islam needs to be renewed and presented in the West as a viable alternative to secular humanism. Until then, we'll be treated like Christianity at best and a voodoo-cult at worst. Alhamdulillah, there have been recent initiatives at bringing traditional Islamic arguments to the academic crowd, but a lot of this goes on in small elite circles. Unlike feminism, for example, Islamic intellectualism has not yet caught onto the masses

 

Comparing Islam to Feminism is disgraceful, regardless how much the feminism has accomplished.

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Salaam,

I think what Qa'im wrote is correct.

I have come to appreciate minds that differ. It allows for growth, and keeps away complacency. We are aware of the benefits of resistance. Sure, it can be misguiding at times, but I still think we all give a percentage of truth here on this forum; we just have to be sincere in fitting that puzzle together, otherwise, we'll continue trying to pit the square peg into the circle, so to speak. All this, and we remain stagnant-minded.

What am I getting at...?
Either way, you can benefit, if you REALLY want it.

Quraan 10:99
[sHAKIR translation]:

And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then FORCE men till they become believers?
--------
Lead by example. In shaa'llah you'll be rewarded for your patience and persistance. Let those who are less intelligent grow when they honestly desire growth. I know it's tough, but the best is resevered for those who work the hardest and smartest, right?

 

Edited by NaveenHussain

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(salam)

 

Liberalism is an intellectual ideology, and so to buttress it, you need to present an intellectual alternative. As it stands right now, many Shi`as are sensationalists who think that the religion should revolve around their cultures, dubious and recycled stories, and innovations. Islam needs to be renewed and presented in the West as a viable alternative to secular humanism. Until then, we'll be treated like Christianity at best and a voodoo-cult at worst. Alhamdulillah, there have been recent initiatives at bringing traditional Islamic arguments to the academic crowd, but a lot of this goes on in small elite circles. Unlike feminism, for example, Islamic intellectualism has not yet caught onto the masses.

It's not an intellectual ideology. That's completely false.

The intellectual alternative is Islam, that's the intellectual and logical choice. Everything else is anti-illectual ideologies in some snse.

Islam does not need to be renewed. In fact, "Muslims" need to renew themselves to adapt to Islam.

Islam will never be treated like Christianity, and Muslims will not be treated as part of a voo doo cult.

Those bringing "traditional" Islamic values are simply bringing Islamic values.

 

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Perhaps I wasn't clear in delivering my point. Renewing Islam (tajdeed) does not mean reforming Islam. Reform would imply changing or modernizing the religion, which is absolutely unjustifiable. Tajdeed is re-establishing the religion; giving fresh life to it without sacrificing its principles.

 

That does not mean we completely destroy our values to please the so called "updated Western civilization", as some are suggesting. Supporting acts of the people of Prophet Lut (a.s), for example.

 

But see, that's my entire point - renewing Islam does not mean "reforming" it, or making it more liberal, or changing its precepts in any way. Homosexuality is a great example. It is unislamic, and no one can change that, but how have our communities addressed it? The only thing I've ever heard about homosexuality in the masjid is "ew, it's gross!" But that's not an intellectual response, and clearly, even some Muslims aren't buying it. Liberals have produced thousands of books, documentaries, and websites on the subject. We have the truth, so why not present it in the best manner and instead of behaving like children?

 


You are making me thing that if islam was not re-innovated then it dose not worth the time of those intellectuals humans in the west, it is a religion for the less intellectual humans of the east. As if Islam is eastern innovation to start with. You are making me think that those who reject Islam have a point and rightful to do so, because Islam in its current form (or shia islam, particularly 12er) is false. Then those who left christianity due to the falsehood of that religion can also leave this religion without any guilt.

 

I never said Islam was an eastern, lesser, sensationalistic religion. I'm saying that much of the Muslim community behaves in a way that makes Islam appear that way to non-Muslims and young Muslims. Surely we all have friends or family that are less religious, or even apostates. Some leave religion to pursue a corrupt lifestyle, yes. But how many have left because the communities don't cater towards their needs?

 

Islam, my friend , is no innovations among religions. Islam will pass with the very same phases as other religions. Muslims do not deny that Islam was/is/will be changed. It is prophetic prophecy and it is accepted by all Muslims. BUT as christians knew that their religion was changed but they stuck to it before the message of our prophet, Muslims should stick to this religion until the Mahdi comes, the one who will bring this religion alive again. Those who left christianity should know that they left it because it is falsehood AND because it is the truth. The truth is, even if christianity was not changed, sill, the christians are expected to leave it. Truth also is that before our prophet message, Christians were expected to stick to christianity even though their religion was changed

 

This is true, the Prophet (pbuh) said that the Muslims will follow the same paths as the Christians and the Jews. But I don't like confusing Muslims with Islam. Some people who deviate from our communities have legitimate (and even Islamic) reasons for doing so. There's things we can do to bring these people back, and bring new people into the fold.

 


Take it from a sister to her brother, if you tried to deform islam to meet ANY standard other than Allah's, you will fail. Islam should be presented the way Allah wanted it to be presented, they way Ahlulbayt wanted it to be presented. Islam should be presented to its seekers, it should not be presented to please some elites or to read some compliments in fancy academic papers. These are shortly lived gains if they can be called gains.

 

Do you believe Islam is currently being presented "the way Ahlulbayt wanted it to be presented"? At all?

 


Why do you give big importance to academic crowd? 3abasa wa tawalla?

 

Comparing Islam to Feminism is disgraceful, regardless how much the feminism has accomplished.

 

My comparison was not to put feminism above or equal to Islam... read my previous sentence. Islam needs to be presented in a way where both intellectuals and common people can appreciate it. Different mediums need to be developed to achieve both ends. Feminism is an example of a cultural movement that has roots in both academia and in pop culture. To feminists, all other systems are archaic and obsolete. The onus is on us to show that our system is better than theirs.

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I agree with you on the above and I will add something. 

As many know, where I live, in Dearborn, there are many good mumineen and muminaat, but there are also alot of

BNO (by name only), muslims and unfortunately some who claim to be followers of Ahl Al Bayt(a.s)

I know some of these brothers and I ask them what made you stop praying, fasting, practicing the religion. 

Some do say that they wanted to live a certain lifestyle, but many also say that Islam was only presented to them as a list of 'No's

You can't do this, you cant do that. So they think of the religion as only a prison. 

So of course someone would want to escape from a prison. The religion has never been presented to them in an appealing way. 

We don't need to change the religion to do this, we just need to change the presentation, like the brother said. 

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The problem is that muslims are completely fragmented and leaderless. At least the catholics have a Pope but we muslims have no leader or organization at any level. Yes i know you will tell me that the Imam(as) is guiding muslims in some secret way but if this is what a community led by the vicegerent of God looks like then I dare not even contemplate how things would be if we did not even have that.

Edited by godzapostle

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The problem is that muslims are completely fragmented and leaderless. At least the catholics have a Pope but we muslims have no leader or organization at any level. Yes i know you will tell me that the Imam(as) is guiding muslims in some secret way but if this is what a community led by the vicegerent of God looks like then I dare not even contemplate how things would be if we did not even have that.

 

The marja?  The WF?  The leaders of any masjid?  The SC mods?

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Perhaps I wasn't clear in delivering my point. Renewing Islam (tajdeed) does not mean reforming Islam. Reform would imply changing or modernizing the religion, which is absolutely unjustifiable. Tajdeed is re-establishing the religion; giving fresh life to it without sacrificing its principles.

 

 

 

 

But see, that's my entire point - renewing Islam does not mean "reforming" it, or making it more liberal, or changing its precepts in any way. Homosexuality is a great example. It is unislamic, and no one can change that, but how have our communities addressed it? The only thing I've ever heard about homosexuality in the masjid is "ew, it's gross!" But that's not an intellectual response, and clearly, even some Muslims aren't buying it. Liberals have produced thousands of books, documentaries, and websites on the subject. We have the truth, so why not present it in the best manner and instead of behaving like children?

 

 

 

I never said Islam was an eastern, lesser, sensationalistic religion. I'm saying that much of the Muslim community behaves in a way that makes Islam appear that way to non-Muslims and young Muslims. Surely we all have friends or family that are less religious, or even apostates. Some leave religion to pursue a corrupt lifestyle, yes. But how many have left because the communities don't cater towards their needs?

 

 

 

 

This is true, the Prophet (pbuh) said that the Muslims will follow the same paths as the Christians and the Jews. But I don't like confusing Muslims with Islam. Some people who deviate from our communities have legitimate (and even Islamic) reasons for doing so. There's things we can do to bring these people back, and bring new people into the fold.

 

 

 

Do you believe Islam is currently being presented "the way Ahlulbayt wanted it to be presented"? At all?

 

 

 

My comparison was not to put feminism above or equal to Islam... read my previous sentence. Islam needs to be presented in a way where both intellectuals and common people can appreciate it. Different mediums need to be developed to achieve both ends. Feminism is an example of a cultural movement that has roots in both academia and in pop culture. To feminists, all other systems are archaic and obsolete. The onus is on us to show that our system is better than theirs.

True, I did not disagree with your original post (though i wrote as if i dose) but i wanted to make a point which is not easily perceived by youth (and I was under its impression when i was a teen) that religion can be reformed to meet modern life standards. I see many youths here (in SC) struggle with this idea, how can the Shari3a be integrated with modern day while the whole system we live under force us to the edges of halal (from monetary system to formalities between people).

I am not against rephrasing or redelivering Islam in a way that is understandable to people, it is our Imams recommendation to do so actually, to talk to people in away that they can engage in discussion and as low to their level as possible (since imams were the higher position in regard to knowledge).

 

Still, i'd hate to promote innovation even if i meant not to innovate but that was the others impression. I'd feel super guilty if someone moved away from religion after conversing with them because they took an idea and over stretched beyond its acceptable limits.

 

regarding your lone question,

I think islam is being delivered without its spirit, people hardly know maladies Aldin.

Edited by Chaotic Muslem

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