Why Did God Create Jesus (Pbuh) Differently

[azizrasul]

19.016 And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from

her people to a chamber looking East,

19.017 And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our Spirit and

it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man.

19.018 She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God-

fearing.

19.019 He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a

faultless son.

19.020 She said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither

have I been unchaste ?

19.021 He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be)

that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a

thing ordained.

 

 

Man can be created in four ways.

 

 

1. He created their father, Adam, without a male (father) or female (mother).

2. Then, He created Hawwa' (Adam's spouse) from a male (father) without a female (mother).

3. Then, He created the rest of their progeny from male and female, except `Isa.

4. He caused `Isa to be born from a female without a male.

 

 

Hence Allaah, the Most High, simply demonstrated that He can create as He wills, there is no restriction or impediment for Him. Just because Adam, Huwwa and Jesus (peace be upon them) were created differently to the rest of us does not make them divine. Jesus (peace be upon them) doesn’t claim to be the begotten son of Allaah.

 

 

Similarly Allaah shows He is Able to create offspring within people who are young but also Able to create offspring among the old e.g. Abraham – Sarah, Imran – Anna, Zachariah – Elisabeth.

 

 

If Allaah had not created Jesus (peace be upon them) (or indeed anyone) in the way He did, the disbelievers would have claimed how can Allaah be God if he can only create 3 out of the 4 ways. Allaah is Perfect. May He be Glorified and Praised.

 

 

6.100 Yet they ascribe as partners unto Him the jinn, although He did create them, and impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. Glorified be He and High Exalted above (all) that they ascribe (unto Him).

[Son of Placid]

If Allaah had not created Jesus (peace be upon them) (or indeed anyone) in the way He did, the disbelievers would have claimed how can Allaah be God if he can only create 3 out of the 4 ways. Allaah is Perfect. May He be Glorified and Praised.

[tearingmyhairout]

If Allaah had not created Jesus (peace be upon them) (or indeed anyone) in the way He did, the disbelievers would have claimed how can Allaah be God if he can only create 3 out of the 4 ways. Allaah is Perfect. May He be Glorified and Praised.

i thoght u were christian, what u mean 4 or 3 ways? anyway its a nice thought glory to god

[Son of Placid]

Hi tearingmyhairout.

 

Yes, I am Christian, what unchristian thing did I do?

 

The 3-4 ways to create are mentioned in the opening post. Seeing Azizrasul answered his own question I merely copy/pasted it.

 

1. He created their father, Adam, without a male (father) or female (mother).

2. Then, He created Hawwa' (Adam's spouse) from a male (father) without a female (mother).

3. Then, He created the rest of their progeny from male and female, except `Isa.

4. He caused `Isa to be born from a female without a male.

[Malik.Ashtar]

(bismillah)  

 

19.016 And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from

her people to a chamber looking East,

19.017 And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our Spirit and

it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man.

19.018 She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God-

fearing.

19.019 He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a

faultless son.

19.020 She said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither

have I been unchaste ?

19.021 He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be)

that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a

thing ordained.

 

 

Man can be created in four ways.

 

 

1. He created their father, Adam, without a male (father) or female (mother).

2. Then, He created Hawwa' (Adam's spouse) from a male (father) without a female (mother).

3. Then, He created the rest of their progeny from male and female, except `Isa.

4. He caused `Isa to be born from a female without a male.

 

 

Hence Allaah, the Most High, simply demonstrated that He can create as He wills, there is no restriction or impediment for Him. Just because Adam, Huwwa and Jesus (peace be upon them) were created differently to the rest of us does not make them divine. Jesus (peace be upon them) doesn’t claim to be the begotten son of Allaah.

 

 

Similarly Allaah shows He is Able to create offspring within people who are young but also Able to create offspring among the old e.g. Abraham – Sarah, Imran – Anna, Zachariah – Elisabeth.

 

 

If Allaah had not created Jesus (peace be upon them) (or indeed anyone) in the way He did, the disbelievers would have claimed how can Allaah be God if he can only create 3 out of the 4 ways. Allaah is Perfect. May He be Glorified and Praised.

 

 

6.100 Yet they ascribe as partners unto Him the jinn, although He did create them, and impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him. Glorified be He and High Exalted above (all) that they ascribe (unto Him).

 

Salam Alyakum

Peace of God be upon you

 

What I understand from your argumentation is this:

For proving that you have power of doing something you have to do that, otherwise that means you do not have the power 

 

So God created Jesus to prove that he has the power and if he hadn't, disbelievers would have said that he was not able to do that and this is the reason why God created Jesus that way!

 

I think your argumentation is problematic form some aspects.

Everybody knows that the premise is not correct. For proving that you have an ability to do something, you do not have to do it, every body knows that you can run even if you haven't run in front of them or if you do not drink wine that does not mean you are not able to do that and so on. everyone knows this premise is wrong because sometimes you can do but you won't, due to some other important reasons and this is a sign of your intellect and wisdom. 

 

The same thing goes for God. According to your argumentation, if God does not create something it means he was not able (na'uzu billah) of its creation e.g. if He did not create a 12 foot tall man, it means He was not able to do that. God is The Wise so every thing He does or does not is accorded to His wisdom.

 

 

So what was the reason of creating Jesus pbuh differently?

 

For answering this I think the best way is referring to Holy Quran :

In chapter Maryam (Mary) in the story of Mary pbuh Quran says:

 

قالَتْ أَنَّى يَكُونُ لي‏ غُلامٌ وَ لَمْ يَمْسَسْني‏ بَشَرٌ وَ لَمْ أَكُ بَغِيًّا (20) 

She said: When shall I have a boy and no mortal has yet touched me, nor have I been unchaste?

قالَ كَذلِكِ قالَ رَبُّكِ هُوَ عَلَيَّ هَيِّنٌ وَ لِنَجْعَلَهُ آيَةً لِلنَّاسِ وَ رَحْمَةً مِنَّا وَ كانَ أَمْراً مَقْضِيًّا (21) 

" He said: Even so; your Lord says: It is easy to Me" And that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from us And it is a matter which has been decreed  

 

And in chapter Al-Anbia (The Prophets) says:

 

وَ الَّتي‏ أَحْصَنَتْ فَرْجَها فَنَفَخْنا فيها مِنْ رُوحِنا وَ جَعَلْناها وَ ابْنَها آيَةً لِلْعالَمينَ (91) 

And she who guarded her chastity, so We breathed into her of Our inspiration and made her and her son a sign for the nations

 

So Quran tells us that Mary and her son were "sign" of God for people.

 

And from other verses in Quran we understand that signs and examples given in Quran have different functions and effects on different types of people:

 

وَ ما جَعَلْنا أَصْحابَ النَّارِ إِلاَّ مَلائِكَةً وَ ما جَعَلْنا عِدَّتَهُمْ إِلاَّ فِتْنَةً لِلَّذينَ كَفَرُوا لِيَسْتَيْقِنَ الَّذينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتابَ وَ يَزْدادَ الَّذينَ آمَنُوا إيماناً وَ لا يَرْتابَ الَّذينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتابَ وَ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَ لِيَقُولَ الَّذينَ في‏ قُلُوبِهِمْ مَرَضٌ وَ الْكافِرُونَ ما ذا أَرادَ اللَّهُ بِهذا مَثَلاً كَذلِكَ يُضِلُّ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَشاءُ وَ يَهْدي مَنْ يَشاءُ وَ ما يَعْلَمُ جُنُودَ رَبِّكَ إِلاَّ هُوَ وَ ما هِيَ إِلاَّ ذِكْرى‏ لِلْبَشَرِ (31)

And We have not made the wardens of the Fire others than angels and We have not made their number but as a trial for those who disbelieve, that those who have been given the book (Tawrat and Bible) may be certain and those who believe may increase in faith and those who have been given the book and the believers may not doubt and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the unbelievers may say: What does Allah mean by this parable? Thus does Allah make err whom He pleases, and He guides whom He pleases.

 

For some it is a trial, for some it makes them certain, for some it increases their faith, for some it is ...

 

So what ever you do and what ever you bring as the sign of God, disbelievers would say "What does Allah mean by this parable?" (they want to downgrade and ignore it) and this is the meaning of "Thus does Allah make err whom He pleases, and He guides whom He pleases"   

 

 

 

God be with you all!

Edited March 20, 2014 by Malik.Ashtar

[azizrasul]

For proving that you have an ability to do something, you do not have to do it,

 

 

 

I did not infer this in the points I made, I am simply saying that the reason that Christians have i.e. that God created a Begotten Son (May Allaah Forgive me) is not the reason for this creation but to demonstrate that God can create as He wills.

 

"He said: Even so; your Lord says: It is easy to Me" And that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from us And it is a matter which has been decreed.

 

Hence the sign (as other signs of creation) for the disbelievers is being given to them and also if the disbelievers challenge say that Allaah cannot be God as He did not create the fourth way then this demonstrates that He can do as He wills just as He created Adam (peace be upon him), etc.

 

Of course the disbelievers can use the argument that why does Allaah not do this and that or create this or that. But Allaah has created many things beyond all comprehension, there may be many things that exist on this earth which we haven't discovered. He has created animals that can exist in all sorts of temperatures, etc. etc.

 

Allaah does what He wishes, we cannot and should not dictate this.

 

Allaah knows best.

[placid]

Hi Azizrasul

Quote from Post 6:

I did not infer this in the points I made, I am simply saying that the reason that Christians have i.e. that God created a Begotten Son (May Allaah Forgive me) is not the reason for this creation but to demonstrate that God can create as He wills.

"He said: Even so; your Lord says: It is easy to Me" And that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from us And it is a matter which has been decreed.

Response: --- I am not sure I understand your point completely, but if you use the wording, ‘that God created a Unique Son,’ rather than a begotten Son, --- it may be easier to understand.

--- And in the English translations, the name, Allah, and, God, refer to our same Almighty and Everlasting God.

This Unique (one of a kind) Being was born of the Virgin Mary, which makes Him human, --- but He was ‘indwelt’ by the Word (Logos) of God, as it says in Surah 3:

45 Behold! the angel said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;

47 She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!

--- (And the verse you used) from Surah 19:

21 He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It is a matter (so) decreed."

When you mention Jesus coming as a ‘Sign unto men,’ --- that confirms who Jesus was and what He did. Notice again in Surah 3:

48 "And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,

49 "And (appoint him) an Apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by God's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

50 "'(I have come to you), to attest (confirm) the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.

51 "It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight."

This is the Message of the Gospel, the ‘good news’ to the Jews, --- that their Savior and Redeemer had come.

And this was the “Sign,” or Signs unto men,

48 He would have the wisdom of God,

49 He would do the miracles of healing, deliver from evil spirits, and raise the dead, as He did in Israel--- He also changed some dietary laws for the Jews, and said;

Surely therein is a “Sign” for you if ye did believe;

50 He confirmed the former Law of the OT, and replaced some of them with the law of Love (which fulfilled some of them). --- And again He says:

--- “I have come to you with a “Sign” from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.”

51 "It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight."

This was the Message of the Gospel given to the Jews, and what the Apostles and disciples of Jesus followed, and what is still followed by Christians today.

--- I believe it is repeated here in the Quran to confirm that Jesus was this “Sign” which was prophesied in the Old Testament, then demonstrated in the New Testament, --- and confirmed here in the Quran so that all men know that this Unique Person, Jesus Christ, was what it said in the verse you quoted:

21 “And We (God) wish to appoint him (Jesus Christ) as a “Sign” unto men and a Mercy from Us': It is a matter (so) decreed."

--- And that is why Jesus was created differently, is it not?

Placid

[azizrasul]

placid, the Sign was NOT that he was the Begotten Son of God if that is what you are implying.

 

5.072 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The

Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.

Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His

abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

 

005.116 And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind:

Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah ? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it.

Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden ?

 

005.117 I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship

Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them,

and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over

all things.

 

005.118 If Thou punish them, lo! they are Thy slaves, and if Thou forgive them (lo!

they are Thy slaves). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Mighty, the Wise.

 

21.107 We sent thee (Muhammad) not save as a mercy for the peoples.

 

Edited March 26, 2014 by azizrasul

[PeaceLoving]

21.107 We sent thee (Muhammad) not save as a mercy for the peoples.

 

Brother

 

I think that is Pickthall's translation but it is not very accurate.  

 

'The peoples' does not convey the precise sense of the verse.

 

Rodwell:- We have not sent thee otherwise than as mercy unto all creatures.

 

Sale:-  We have not sent thee [O Muhammad]  but as a mercy unto all creatures

 

Arberry: We have not sent thee  save as a mercy unto all beings. 

 

Palmer:- We have only sent thee as a mercy to the worlds.

 

Yusuf Ali:- We have sent thee not but as a mercy for all creatures.

 

In modern English, the best way to say it would probably be

 

We have not sent you except as a Mercy for all mankind.

 

Basically, our Holy Prophet is the only prophet sent for all mankind.

 

Moses and Jesus, for example, were both sent only to the children of Israel.

 

Our Prophet for ALL mankind.  

[placid]

Hi Azizrasul

Quote from Post 8:

The Sign was NOT that he was the Begotten Son of God if that is what you are implying.

Response: --- No, the Sign was that Jesus was ‘the Messenger of the New Covenant’ that God made with mankind. --- Remember your verse from Surah 19:

21 "And that We (God) may make him (Jesus) a Sign to men and a mercy from us And it is a matter which has been decreed.”

--- (God decided, or ‘decreed’ to make Jesus a Sign unto men, and He did it.)

The Unique Being of Jesus had no human father. --- God said “Be” and He was. --- So God, by this unnatural implanting of life in Mary, was really His Father. Do not all things come from God? --- Notice Surah 19:

35 It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.

--- (It was out of the ordinary, and seemingly below the dignity of God, that He should have one who is called His son, --- but God ‘decreed’ it).

--- And this is where the term, ‘only begotten’ is used, because it is the only time that the Word (Logos), ever came from God to ‘indwell’ a human. --- (There were other appearances in Scripture of angels and heavenly beings.)

---- Notice this verse in Surah 3:

59 Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.

Adam was formed from dust, and Jesus was implanted in Mary, but in both cases God said, “Be” – and they were created.

Jesus was CALLED the Son of God and He always called God His Father, and this is how He taught His disciples to pray, in Matthew 6:

9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.

10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors.

13 And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one.

For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

--- This model prayer is used by Christians around the world, the same as Surah 1 is often used by Muslims.

However, Jesus was not a god, but was ‘indwelt’ by the Word (Logos) from God. This is what made Him a Unique Being, He could speak with the voice of man, or the voice of God, but it was only one voice.

--- Since neither the Word (Logos), nor the Holy Spirit could be seen by human eyes, Jesus was the human Manifestation of God on earth. --- Jesus usually referred to Himself as ‘the Son of Man.’

--- (Rather than make this too long, we will look at the verses you listed next.)

Placid

[azizrasul]

Thanks PeaceLoving for the translations.

 

Placid, 19:21 does not suggest that God decreed a begotten son. 19:35 (It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son) confirms this.

 

Being called the Son of God should not be taken literally. A person who is the Son of God is someone who is a righteous person or someone who is close to God, indeed a Messenger of God. Just as we are often called the Children of Adam, infers we come ultimately from Adam. Also since the NT is not the word of God, we should be careful how we use this source of 'scripture'.

 

Look at this verse

 

O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.

 

Mary (peace be upon her) did not have a brother called Aaron. The reference to Aaron here is the prophet Aaron (peace be upon him) who is a direct descendent. So taking this verse literally would be incorrect.

 

If

 

Jesus usually referred to Himself as ‘the Son of Man.’

 

then that would make more sense. He is saying he is a human being like we are, which is in fact the case.

Islamically, the Holy Spirit is arch angel Gabriel(peace be upon him).

[placid]

Hi Azizrasul

Quote from Post 11:

19:21 does not suggest that God decreed a begotten son. 19:35 (It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son) confirms this.

Response: --- 19:21 Pickthall: He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained. --- (Used in Post 1)

I believe you quoted from Shakir in Post 6: "He said: Even so; your Lord says: It is easy to Me" And that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from us And it is a matter which has been decreed.

--- The difference is in the Pickthall translation it says, “We (God) may make of him (Jesus) a ‘revelation’ for mankind.”

In Shakir it says, “We (God) may make him (Jesus) a Sign to men.”

--- And if you notice, I said in Post 10, “The Sign was that Jesus was ‘the Messenger of the New Covenant’ that God made with mankind.

--- Jesus was both a Sign, as it restarted the Calendar, and introduced Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, --- who was given to the Apostles after Jesus had ascended to heaven, --- and He was a ‘Revelation,’ as the Message of the Gospel is still taught, and followed today.

--- Also, I suggested in Posts 7 and 10, that the word Unique, (meaning one of a kind) answers the question better, “Why did God make Jesus different?” --- Than the term ‘only begotten’, which has been misunderstood.

Quote: Being called the Son of God should not be taken literally. A person who is the Son of God is someone who is a righteous person or someone who is close to God, indeed a Messenger of God. Just as we are often called the Children of Adam, infers we come ultimately from Adam.

Response: --- Yes, Jesus called God His heavenly Father, and taught His disciples to pray, “Our Father in Heaven,” and in the NT believers are called ‘sons of God’ by believing in God and following Jesus,

Quote: Also since the NT is not the word of God, we should be careful how we use this source of 'scripture'.

Response: --- The angel Gabriel who appeared to Mary to announce that ‘she would have a son and call his name Jesus,’ was the same angel Gabriel that gave revelations to Muhammad, and who confirmed that the former Scriptures were true, check Surah 3:3, and Surah 5:48.

Quote: Look at this verse

O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.

Mary (peace be upon her) did not have a brother called Aaron. The reference to Aaron here is the prophet Aaron (peace be upon him) who is a direct descendent. So taking this verse literally would be incorrect.

Response: ---I agree with you that this verse is slightly confused with the OT. Mary is another name for Miriam, and Aaron was a brother of Miriam, and Moses.

But notice this verse is from the Quran, Surah 19:28, not from the Bible.

Quote : (I said) Jesus usually referred to Himself as ‘the Son of Man.’

(You said) then that would make more sense. He is saying he is a human being like we are, which is in fact the case.

Response: --- Yes, I said in Post 10: Jesus was the human Manifestation of God on earth. --- Jesus usually referred to Himself as ‘the Son of Man.’

Jesus was human, ---but not like us in that He had no human father, therefor He was without sin, and was ‘indwelt’ by the Word of God Surah 3:45.

--- Jesus had a human body, but a Divine Spirit.

Quote: Islamically, the Holy Spirit is arch angel Gabriel (peace be upon him).

Response: --- Yes, this is what has divided us in understanding Scripture. (Lack of knowledge of the Holy Spirit.)

The Holy Spirit of God was with God in the creation. --- As it says in Genesis 1:

2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

It was the Holy Spirit that came to Mary, as it says in Luke 1:

34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

It was the angel Gabriel that was speaking to Mary, and he didn’t say, “I will come upon you,” --- but he said, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you.”

And the Holy Spirit remained with Jesus, as it says in Surah 2:

87 We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit.

--- The angel Gabriel was a ‘holy angel,’ --- but not “The HOLY SPIRIT.”

Placid

[placid]

To respond to the verses you gave in Post 8:

Quote: 5.072 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

Response: --- Yes, they disbelieve or misunderstand from faulty teaching. --- Jesus, the Son of Mary is called the Messiah some 8 times in the Quran, but Jesus was not God.

Also, “Whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah,” --- are wrong because there is only One God. --- It is a misunderstanding of the three in heaven, who are Manifestations of God, but not partners or equals.

(We will see this later in Surah 4:171.)

Quote: 005.116 And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah ? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden ?

005.117 I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things.

Response: --- This is a strange question because God knows all things and had Jesus said anything like “Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah?” --- God would have known it without asking.

--- The question then would have been, “Why did you say ‘Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah?’”

Jesus responds, “Had I said such a thing you would have known it.” And his answer is in the next verse:

005.117 I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.

--- (Jesus subjected Himself as a servant of God in saying to people, “Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.”)

--- However, there was a false teaching about the three as a trinity, --- God the Father, Mary the Mother, and Jesus the Child.

--- And this was made worse by a prayer of the Roman Catholic Church from no doubt before the time of Muhammad where they said, “Holy Mary, Mother of God.” --- This is exalting Mary above God and calling her son, God.

--- So the false teaching was given, that Jesus was God, and Mary had to be exalted to heaven.

None of that is in the Scripture, but Mary was human, and therefore, Jesus was born as a human from a human mother. --- But Jesus had no human father, but was brought into Being by God saying, --- “Be” – and he is.

Then Jesus was ‘indwelt’ by the Word from heaven. Surah 3:45.

Notice the status of Jesus in these verses in Surah 4:

171 O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God.

Notice it says that Jesus was a Messenger of God, --- and His (God’s) Word --- which He conveyed into Mary (so Jesus was ‘indwelt’ by the Word from His mother’s womb), --- and a Spirit from God, which was the Holy Spirit of God

--- And notice it says, “SAY NOT THREE” --- Allah (God) is only one God.

Notice who the three are? --- God, --- the Word --- and the Holy Spirit.

These three were with God from the beginning of creation, but notice that Jesus was the Messenger of God, and not one of the three.

172 The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave (Servant) unto Allah, nor will the favoured angels.

--- (It is Almighty God who ‘decides’ --- and the Word (Logos) and the Holy Spirit are Servants to Him, --- And Jesus was the Messenger, or Manifestation of God during His time on earth.)

Placid

[azizrasul]

The former scriptures do not include the Gospels. They include for example the Torah and the Injeel. Many translators have unfortunately mistranslated the word Injeel as Gospels incorrectly.

 

--- Also, I suggested in Posts 7 and 10, that the word Unique, (meaning one of a kind) answers the question better, “Why did God make Jesus different?” --- Than the term ‘only begotten’, which has been misunderstood.

 

If Jesus (peace be upon him) is Unique, then why does God use the word likeness if he was different?

 

Verily, the likeness of Jesus before Allaah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be!" - and he was. 3:59

 

He is unique in that he had a mother and not a father, but that’s where the uniqueness ends. He is still a Messenger of God. He’s not divine. He doesn’t claim divinity in the Qur’an. He will actually refute this on the Day of Judgement.

 

But notice this verse is from the Quran, Surah 19:28, not from the Bible.

 

Yes I forgot to mention the verse in my post. But the explanation is what was important i.e. people will take certain verses too literally and run away with the wrong idea.

 

Response: --- Yes, Jesus called God His heavenly Father, and taught His disciples to pray, “Our Father in Heaven,” and in the NT believers are called ‘sons of God’ by believing in God and following Jesus,

 

The important word here is ‘Our’. In other words the ‘Father’ is the father of all or the God of all.

 

16.102 Say: The holy Spirit hath delivered it from thy Lord with truth, that it may confirm (the faith of) those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for those who have  surrendered (to Allah).

 

Response: --- Yes, I said in Post 10: Jesus was the human Manifestation of God on earth. --- Jesus usually referred to Himself as ‘the Son of Man.’
Jesus was human, ---but not like us in that He had no human father, therefor He was without sin, and was ‘indwelt’ by the Word of God Surah 3:45.
--- Jesus had a human body, but a Divine Spirit.

 

Where in the Qur’an, does God talk about the ‘Divine Spirit’ of Jesus (peace be upon him)?

Being unique does not make Jesus (peace be upon him) divine.

 

35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

 

But this is from the NT not from the Qur’an. I only accept that part of the Bible which agrees with the Qur’an. As I said the NT is NOT a scripture from God even tho it happens to have things that are in agreement with the Qur’an. The Qur’an says

 

19.018 She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God-fearing.

19.019 He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.

 

Yes, Jesus (peace be upon him) is the Messiah. No arguments there as the Qur’an as u said confirms this.

 

Then Jesus was ‘indwelt’ by the Word from heaven. Surah 3:45.

 

The Qur’an does not talk about indwelt.

 

(so Jesus was ‘indwelt’ by the Word from His mother’s womb),

 

Where do you get this interpretation from? You quote the correct passages and appear to be agreeing with them then you drop a bombshell out of nowhere which is entirely the opposite of the what the verse is saying!

 

There are no THREE as 4:171 which you have quoted is telling us. The 'Word' is the Injeel which we do not have now.

Edited March 28, 2014 by azizrasul

[andres]

He is unique in that he had a mother and not a father, but that’s where the uniqueness ends. He is still a Messenger of God. He’s not divine. He doesn’t claim divinity in the Qur’an. He will actually refute this on the Day of Judgement.

To a person living in the first century, an offspring of a deity and a woman would be regarded as divine. Like Heracles. Greek-Latin mythology was still alive, and semideities also existed in other religions. I strongly suspect that Mark and Luke by telling about the Virgin birth wishes to stress that Jesus was divine.

Edited March 28, 2014 by andres

[latifa]

Salams,

I'm at the library so I can't quote the hadith exactly or its source. But I am certain I read from Ahlu Bayt a.s. the only ones to answer this question said thatAllah created Isa a.s. in the way He did to show the creation that He can do whatever He chooses.

[Son of Placid]

Salams,

I'm at the library so I can't quote the hadith exactly or its source. But I am certain I read from Ahlu Bayt a.s. the only ones to answer this question said thatAllah created Isa a.s. in the way He did to show the creation that He can do whatever He chooses.

He only has to say "be" and it is.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Son of Placid

[PeaceLoving]

Yes, Jesus (peace be upon him) is the Messiah. No arguments there as the Qur’an as u said confirms this.

 

When the Jews were being kicked out of Spain, a learned Jew pressed his point very persuasively that in Biblical parlance, the Messiah was just a king.  The Church could not counter his arguments very well but decided to expel him anyway, along with the rest of the Jews in Spain.

 

As in Judaism, in Islam too,the Messiah is the one awaited by the Jews.  The Quran accepts that Jesus was the Messiah, the one expected by the Jews.

 

But it states very clearly that Jesus was not sent for all mankind, because he was sent only for the children of Israel [3:49].

 

Though most certainly among the highest of the highest, Jesus does not have the pride of place in  Islam that he has in Christianity.

 

The Word and the Holy Spirit do not have the same meaning that Christians give those words either.

 

If Jesus was the very special being that Christians like us to believe, the Quran would not have restricted his mission only to the children of Israel.

 

'The Word' is just a reference to God's command of his birth outside the normal biological rules.

 

According to the Quran, Prophet Muhammad clearly has the highest place among all  prophets as he is the only one for whom the Quran says was sent as a mercy for all mankind [21:107].

 

Jesus was also sent as mercy not not for all mankind. 

 

We respect the views of our Christian friends but to say that the Quran supports their views is a fair bit over the top.

 

And it is hardly plausible that non-Muslims would understand the Quran better than more than one billion Muslims.

 

The extremely high status of Jesus is recognized in Islam but falls short of that in Christianity.  .

Edited March 28, 2014 by PeaceLoving

[andres]

Salams,

I'm at the library so I can't quote the hadith exactly or its source. But I am certain I read from Ahlu Bayt a.s. the only ones to answer this question said thatAllah created Isa a.s. in the way He did to show the creation that He can do whatever He chooses.

Makes no sense to me. Only Mary knows for sure if she was a Virgin. It should not be necessary to show to her that God could make her pregnant without a man.

[placid]

Hi Peace,

Quote from Post 18:

But it states very clearly that Jesus was not sent for all mankind, because he was sent only for the children of Israel [3:49].

3:49 And will make him a Messenger unto the Children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a Sign from your Lord.

Response: --- Yes Jesus was the Messenger to the Jews when He was on earth, however, if you noticed in Post 1 Azizrasul used these verses:

19.020 She said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither

have I been unchaste ?

19.021 He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be)

that We may make of him (Jesus) a ‘revelation for mankind’ and a ‘mercy from Us (God),’ and it is a thing ordained.

21 Yusuf Ali: He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It is a matter (so) decreed."

Quote: According to the Quran, Prophet Muhammad clearly has the highest place among all prophets as he is the only one for whom the Quran says was sent as a mercy for all mankind [21:107].

21:107 We sent thee not save as a mercy for the peoples.

107 Yusuf Ali: We sent thee not, but as a Mercy for all creatures.

19:21 21 Yusuf Ali: He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It is a matter (so) decreed.

21:91 And she who was chaste, therefor We breathed into her (something) of Our Spirit and made her and her son (Jesus) a token for (all) peoples.

91 Yusuf Ali: And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a Sign for all peoples.

91 Khalifa: As for the one who maintained her virginity, we blew into her from our spirit, and thus, we made her and her son a portent for the whole world.

Does this not put all Prophets on the same level?

2:136 Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.

Placid

[PeaceLoving]

Hi Placid

 

Yes Jesus was the Messenger to the Jews when He was on earth

 

The whole point is that Jesus was sent only to the Jews whereas our Prophet was sent to all mankind.

 

Azizrasul used these verses:
19.020 She said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither
have I been unchaste ?
19.021 He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be)
that We may make of him (Jesus) a ‘revelation for mankind’ and a ‘mercy from Us (God),’ and it is a thing ordained.

 

What about those verses?  

 

They are just saying that no man had touched his mother and his unusual birth was a sign for all mankind.

 

Yes, indeed, Jesus was a sign for all men because his birth was a miracle.

 

But that fact was no different to the fact that Adam did not have father or mother [3:59]. 

 

He was a mercy to the people but unlike our Prophet, Jesus was not a mercy for all mankind [21:107]. 

 

21:91 And she who was chaste, therefor We breathed into her (something) of Our Spirit and made her and her son (Jesus) a token for (all) peoples.
91 Yusuf Ali: And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a Sign for all peoples.
91 Khalifa: As for the one who maintained her virginity, we blew into her from our spirit, and thus, we made her and her son a portent for the whole world.
 

 

As I said before, his miraculous birth was a sign of God's miracle for all men for ever.

 

Of course, it was.  No denying.

 

That is all there is to it.

 

Nothing special in those verses!

 

Does this not put all Prophets on the same level?
2:136 Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.

 

No, it doesn't.

 

Making no distinction does not mean that they were all equal.

 

It is explained in verse [4:150] as 'We believe in some and reject the others'.

 

On the other hand, the Quran says very clearly that some prophets are above others [2:253], [17:55]. 

And the only prophet about whom the Quran says was a mercy for all mankind was Muhammad.

 

That is all.

[placid]

Hi Peace,

I guess it depends on how you read it:

4:150 Lo! those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers, and seek to make distinction between Allah and His messengers, and say: We believe in some and disbelieve in others, and seek to choose a way in between;

151 Such are disbelievers in truth; and for disbelievers We prepare a shameful doom.

152 But those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of them, unto them Allah will give their wages; and Allah was ever Forgiving, Merciful.

2:253 Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) and We supported him with the Holy Spirit.

[PeaceLoving]

Hi Placid

 

If somebody makes a speech or writes a book, he wants it to be understood in the sense that he wrote it and not as the reader would like to understand it.

 

A given verse in the Quran has a given sense and is not subject to the reader's interpretation.

 

Of course, it is a different matter that it may not be easy to understand what exactly it is trying to say.

 

Similar to [2:253]  is verse [17:55] where like [2:253], it speaks of some prophets have been the recipient of greater grace than others and then it talks about David.

 

[17:55] Your Lord best knows what is in the heavens and the earth. We have granted more favors on some prophets and to David We gave a Book.

 

In any case, it is indisputable that the Quran holds Muhammad as the greatest of the prophets. 

[andres]

The whole point is that Jesus was sent only to the Jews whereas our Prophet was sent to all mankind.

Wrong. Jesus was sent to save mankind, and his message is for the entire world

He was a mercy to the people but unlike our Prophet, Jesus was not a mercy for all mankind [21:107].

Millions of Christians all over the world disagree with you. Jesus is indeed a mercy for all of us.

[andres]

Yes, indeed, Jesus was a sign for all men because his birth was a miracle.

Had it been a sign for all men, even if the word "all men" is to be understood as only the Jewish community, we would have other sources on this than only Mark and Luke. We can be very sure that if there ever was a Virgin birth, it was not known by the Jews. And if Mary told others about it, how many Jews would believe her? I dare to say that they were so few, that speaking about a sign for mankind is totally out of proportion. This can therefore not be the reason for Gods descision of making a Virgin birth.

[placid]

Hi Peace,

Quote from Post 21:

The whole point is that Jesus was sent only to the Jews whereas our Prophet was sent to all mankind.

Response: --- Yes Jesus came to His own people the Jews, and from the Jews He trained the Apostles who were with him for three years, and at the end of Jesus’ ministry among them, He commissioned them in Matthew 28:

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying,

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,

20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

And again, before His ascension in Acts 1:

4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me;

5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.

8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

On the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2, the Apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit who sent them out from Jerusalem to preach the Gospel in other countries, and the evidence that they were obedient is that the Gospel was preached to the ends of the earth, or the whole world, --- as it still is today.

If you want to say that Jesus was sent only to the Jews, that included the 11 Apostles along with Paul, and many others, who carried the Message to the Gentile world. The Arabs are also Gentiles and there were Christians in Arabia when Muhammad came, and the Gospel Message is repeated in the Quran, so it is preserved there as well, is it not?

--- God had chosen the nation Israel to be His people and these two verses that speak of them are interesting in Surah 2:

63 And (remember, O Children of Israel) when We made a covenant with you and caused the mount to tower above you, (saying): Hold fast that which We have given you, and remember that which is therein, that ye may ward off (evil).

64 Then, even after that, ye turned away, and if it had not been for the grace of Allah and His mercy ye had been among the losers.

64 Yusuf Ali: But ye turned back thereafter: Had it not been for the Grace and Mercy of God to you, ye had surely been among the lost.

The simple meaning of Grace and Mercy that God shows is this:

Grace, means ‘undeserved favor,’ --- or ‘receiving something that you don’t deserve.’

Mercy, means ‘receiving forgiveness’ rather than ‘the judgment you deserve.’

--- Or, Grace means, ‘getting what you don’t deserve,’ --- and Mercy means, ‘not getting what you do deserve.’

How do you explain the meaning of Mercy from your perspective?

Placid

[PeaceLoving]

Hi Placid

 

God had chosen the nation Israel to be His people and these two verses that speak of them are interesting in Surah 2:

63 And (remember, O Children of Israel) when We made a covenant with you and caused the mount to tower above you, (saying): Hold fast that which We have given you, and remember that which is therein, that ye may ward off (evil).
64 Then, even after that, ye turned away, and if it had not been for the grace of Allah and His mercy ye had been among the losers.
64 Yusuf Ali: But ye turned back thereafter: Had it not been for the Grace and Mercy of God to you, ye had surely been among the lost.

 

A just God does not discriminate on the basis of race or nationality. And He cannot nominate anyone as 'his own people'.

 

The Quran rejects the concept of the chosen people. 

 

[2:94] If the future abode with God is exclusively for you, the invoke death if you are truthful.

 

[5:18] The Jews and Christians say 'We are the Children of God and his beloved ones'. Say, 'why then does He punish you for your sins'?

 

[62:6] Jews, if you think that you are God's chosen people to the exclusion of all men, the long for death, if you are truthful'.

 

The only thing that the Quran recognizes is that the Jews had been endowed with more things than any other nation at the time.

 

[2:40] Children of Israel, remember the favor that I bestowed upon you. Fulfill your Covenant to Me and I shall fulfill Mine. And fear Me.

 

This verse (and some others like it) only point to the fact that the Jews had been given a lot of advantages compared to other nations.

 

Something similar to Americans today.

 

Would you call Americans God's chosen people? 

 

 Yes Jesus came to His own people the Jews, and from the Jews He trained the Apostles who were with him for three years, and at the end of Jesus’ ministry among them, He commissioned them in Matthew 28:

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying,
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

 

The Quran does not talk about Jesus training his apostles.

 

You cannot mix up two scriptures and then make your conclusions.

 

Even if he did commission his apostles to go and teach to non-Jews, as far as the Quran is concerned, he had been sent only to the Jews.

 

Cheers

Edited March 30, 2014 by PeaceLoving

[PeaceLoving]

Had it been a sign for all men, even if the word "all men" is to be understood as only the Jewish community, we would have other sources on this than only Mark and Luke. We can be very sure that if there ever was a Virgin birth, it was not known by the Jews. And if Mary told others about it, how many Jews would believe her? I dare to say that they were so few, that speaking about a sign for mankind is totally out of proportion. This can therefore not be the reason for Gods descision of making a Virgin birth.

 

The Quran is a book given by God and God does not need historical material for His Book. If you don't believe in the Virgin Birth, that is up to you.

 

I believe it is true. 

Edited March 30, 2014 by PeaceLoving

[andres]

Hi Peace

You missed my point. God maling a sign to mankind that only one person (Mary) could experience and know if it was real or not? A sign shown to no more than one person, and we have not even got her story! No, this is not the reason for the miracle. Of course God that made the universe can make a Virgin birth, this is pure logic, but the Virgin birth told by Mark and Luke is to show that Jesus is of divine nature.

[placid]

Hi Peace,

Quote from Post 27:

The Quran rejects the concept of the chosen people.

[2:94] If the future abode with God is exclusively for you, then invoke death if you are truthful.

Response: --- In a time of great famine in Canaan the sons of Jacob went to Egypt to buy grain. They had previously sold Joseph as a slave who was taken to Egypt, but God had exalted Joseph to a position of Governor, next to the Pharaoh himself. Joseph invited the family to Egypt and the Pharaoh gave them ‘the Land of Goshen’ in Egypt.

Jacob’s name had been changed to Israel, and they had been in Egypt 400 years before the time of Moses. --- The multitude that God led out of Egypt, were all descendants of the 12 sons of Israel, so they were called “The Children of Israel.”

--- They started out as free men when Joseph was the governor of Egypt, under the Pharaoh, but after the original family died they were gradually treated as slaves until the time of Moses.

When God, through Moses, had led the Children of Israel out of Egypt, in the Book of Exodus, ---this was the covenant made with Moses and the Children of Israel in Exodus 19:

1 In the third month after the children of Israel had gone out of the land of Egypt, on the same day, they came to the Wilderness of Sinai.

2 For they had departed from Rephidim, had come to the Wilderness of Sinai, and camped in the wilderness. So Israel camped there before the mountain.

3 And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel:

4 ‘You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to Myself.

5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine.

6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”

7 So Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before them all these words which the Lord commanded him.

8 Then all the people answered together and said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do.” So Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord.

9 And the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I come to you in the thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you, and believe you forever.”

--- If we go with this same ‘covenant’ to the context of your verse, we see this in Surah 2:

92 And Moses came unto you with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), yet, while he was away, ye chose the calf (for worship) and ye were wrong-doers.

93 And when We (God) made with you a covenant and caused the Mount to tower above you, (saying): Hold fast by that which We have given you, and hear (Our Word), they said: We hear and we rebel. And (worship of) the calf was made to sink into their hearts because of their rejection (of the covenant). Say (unto them): Evil is that which your belief enjoineth on you, if ye are believers.

94 Say (unto them): If the abode of the Hereafter in the providence of Allah is indeed for you alone and not for others of mankind (as ye pretend), then long for death (for ye must long for death) if ye are truthful.

This was the ‘covenant’ that they broke, which is mentioned a number of times in the Quran each time it speaks of Moses and the Exodus from Egypt.

However, the covenant was ‘conditional’ in these words: “If you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant,” --- But they didn’t keep their covenant, and were rejected as the ‘chosen of God.’

--- And God made the New Covenant with mankind in the coming of Jesus.--- So Jesus came to the Jews.

Placid

[baqar]

Hi Placid

 

That is all very well and fine from your own scriptures. You can believe what you want.

 

But please don't mix up the books of two different religions.

 

Retrofitting Islam into Christian beliefs is trying to push a ball down a cylindrical column.

 

They just don't blend in.

 

Sharing ideas or beliefs does not mean total acquiescence of one to the other.

 

Cheers

[PeaceLoving]

You missed my point. 

 

Hi Anders

 

I am sorry if I missed your point. Please tell me if I have understood you now.

 

the Virgin birth told by Mark and Luke is to show that Jesus is of divine nature.

 

I cannot comment on Mark or Luke but as you probably know already, Islam rejects the divine component of Jesus' birth.

 

 A sign shown to no more than one person, and we have not even got her story! No, this is not the reason for the miracle. Of course God that made the universe can make a Virgin birth, 

 

However, Islam does believe in the Virgin Birth. 

 

As for your point about Mary being the only source of the story of the Virgin Birth, that is where the Quran differs from the NT. The story of the birth of Jesus in the Quran is completely different from that in Mark or Luke.

 

According to the Quran, Mary used to live with her uncle Zachary. Though it is not mentioned in the Quran, one would think that at this time, she had lost both her parents and that is why she was living with her uncle.

 

Anyway, one day an angel appeared to her in the shape of a man. As expected, she was an extremely chaste woman and she tried to shield herself from his person.

 

At this point, the Quran does not say if Zachary was still alive. Anyway when she saw this angel in the form of a man, she said

 

"I flee for refuge from you to the Merciful God"  [19:18].

 

The angel told her that he was not  a man but an angel and had come to give her the good news of a son. She asked 'When will that happen. And how? Because no man had touched her.

 

The angel said that it is easy for God to get a woman to conceive even without a man, And so she conceived merely by the Will of God.

 

As the day finally approached, she felt the child kicking from within her. She went into labor and moved from the house to the shade of a palm tree. She felt very tired and  the child miraculously spoke to her from the womb telling her to quench her thirst from a stream that had been made to flow especially for her and to shake the branch of the palm tree and refresh herself with some dates. So she refreshed herself and felt better.

 

Then the child was born and she carried the baby with her back home.

 

When the people saw her with a baby, they expressed their surprise and questioned her. 

 

But she pointed to the baby and the baby spoke to vouch for her chastity.

 

In short, according to the Quran, people expressed their surprise obviously because Mary did not have a husband.

 

Otherwise, why would they? 

 

And the fact of the Virgin Birth was attested by the baby himself.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Adding two and two, according to the Quran,

 

• Mary was not married at the time of the birth of Jesus

• The fact that Mary was chaste was confirmed by the baby miraculously.

 

Combining these two things, the only possibility is that Jesus was born without a father - unlike normal children.

 

That is the Quran's version of events.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Please note that Joseph, the carpenter, is not mentioned in the Quran or the fact that she traveled with him for the census.

 

The Quran does not say that she was engaged to marry him.

 

However, according to the Quran, the baby did speak to the crowd and therefore the event was witnessed by many people.

 

She was not the only witness to the story of the Virgin Birth, as in the case of Mark or Luke. 

 

That may be so in Mark and Luke but not in the Quran.

 

Neither Mark nor Luke were there at the time, and my view is that even if they heard  bits and pieces, it is easy to go off track, if you are not an eye-witness yourself.  

 

There is nothing in any of the gospels to say that Jesus had himself told them the story of his birth.  

 

I hope I have been able to explain my point and answer your query.

 

Cheers    

Edited March 31, 2014 by PeaceLoving

[azizrasul]

Makes no sense to me. Only Mary knows for sure if she was a Virgin. It should not be necessary to show to her that God could make her pregnant without a man.

 

It was to show mankind that God has the ability to create as He wishes not just to Mary (peace be upon her) but to all mankind.

 

Does this not put all Prophets on the same level?

 

Yes in terms of the central message i.e. the preaching of the Oneness of God. But Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sent as a Mercy to all.
 

Wrong. Jesus was sent to save mankind, and his message is for the entire world

Millions of Christians all over the world disagree with you. Jesus is indeed a mercy for all of us.

 

If Christians understand what Jesus's (peace be upon him) TRUE message was then indeed his message should be understood by the entire world as it is the same message of all the prophets. The important feature is what was his message and this is given in the Qur'an and the NT i.e. to accept the One True God.

 

Millions are not necessarily right. After all, there are billions of people who don't believe in God, are they right just because they are in the majority? That is a falicious argument. The facts and evidence need to be establishment by their own right, not following what other people believe. I as a Muslim, I'm not a Muslim because there are billions of us but that Islam is the TRUE religion. I don't care what others believe in even if the entire world were not Muslims I would still believe in Islam as it is the right religion. If anyone can prove that Islam is wrong, be my guest. I'm open to the challenge.

 

Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allaah, they would have found within it much contradiction. 4:82

 

[andres]

Hi Peace

Did God wish to show to the world that he could create a Virgin birth? First of all it seems totally unnecessary, but more important is that if this was what God wanted to show, God failed to make a indisputable demonstration. If we believe Mark and Luke, the only human witnesses were Mary and Gabriel, Mary was not yet married to Joseph and in the small village of Nasareth not many would believe the story if they were told. The Quran tells us baby Jesus spoke from the craddle and that people witnessed this. This is a better start than in the Bible, but still the miracle did not go public. Had the first generation of Christians heard of this, we would have been able to read about it in the Bible....as a proof that Jesus was divine. I am aware this is not what the Quran wishes to tell, I can spot no reason, but naturally Muhammed must have told that Gabriel had given him the story from God, and that so we find it in the Quran. Mark, Luke and the Quran. Three different stories.

[andres]

Millions are not necessarily right. After all, there are billions of people who don't believe in God, are they right just because they are in the majority? That is a falicious argument.

Why question that Jesus is a mercy to millions of Christians??? I am certain that the Quran is a blessing to you and millions of Muslims even if I do not share your belief that it is a divine book.

Atheism is a belief. It is not possible to prove it right or wrong, so speaking of right or wrong is irrelevant.