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In the Name of God بسم الله

God's Sign? - Malaysia Airliner Lost

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Shiabro

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Nothing that either of those joke governments have done or will ever do, can match the magnitude of World War I and World War II.

 

And that's not my opinion. That's qualitative fact. The numbers reveal this to be the case.

 

There are problems within our cultures and governments. And the two often assist each other in compounding the problems. But to pretend like there is some sort of moral equivalence between East and West goes against qualitative fact and historical experience. And to say that the West is -- on the whole -- superior to the East, or that Westerners are "more likely to use their rationale" than Easterners is either a lie or a very misguided statement. Also not supported by fact.

 

I was replying to the accusation "people in and from the West [and other places] seem to never get any connections. Or they deny any connections/signs they see" in a similar fashion.  It is not any more preposterous than what I stated, but you have yet to voice any criticism of the comment. You say these things like I insist that the West is better than the East, but I have not once said that.  Instead I have only tried to balance the criticism, which on this forum seems to be overwhelming anti-all-things-Western. On this forum I am usually on the defense.  You know,  I never even thought of myself as a Westerner and not even much of an American (no patriotism whatsoever) until I became Muslim and all I began to hear from other Muslims was how much the West and Westerners suck.  

 

You seem to reply to my posts very hastily.  I believe you gave a similar knee-jerk response when I replied to a post that called Turks filthy people by saying Persians in the West are not that great themselves.

Edited by Fatima Hussain
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CLynn: You are not the only one who thinks this (post 31) I've heard Christians and Muslims say this. Same with Hurricane Andrew and Camille.

 

Fatima Hussein:  What I think about your posts is inconclusive, but here is another take: Which Westerners?

 

Even in college, foreign students often expressed shock, yes, shock, at how much Americans did not know about the World.

 

Conversely, in my experience, most Arabs dismiss things as somehow unimportant or indulge in conspiracy theories.

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CLynn: You are not the only one who thinks this (post 31) I've heard Christians and Muslims say this. Same with Hurricane Andrew and Camille.

 

Fatima Hussein:  What I think about your posts is inconclusive, but here is another take: Which Westerners?

 

Even in college, foreign students often expressed shock, yes, shock, at how much Americans did not know about the World.

 

Conversely, in my experience, most Arabs dismiss things as somehow unimportant or indulge in conspiracy theories.

 

Although the average American is most certainly ill-informed about what lies beyond the United States, I think most Americans and Westerners in general are less likely to accept conspiracy theories compared to South Asians and Arabs.  This is only my experience though, I would love to see if there are any research studies on the topic.

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When people (mainly the "rational" Americans and the liberal crowds) are given cold and hard facts, they still snub it off as a conspiracy theory, as if to try and axiomatically discredit the one laying down the facts.

 

No one seems to comprehend the magnitude of possibilities given how fast technology has advanced. Nikola Tesla invented an "earthquake generator" during early 20th century without any funding from the government whatsoever, so you all think it is "irrational" that AWACS hijacking couldn't have taken place and made this airline disappear???

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I think most Americans and Westerners in general are less likely to accept conspiracy theories compared to South Asians and Arabs.

 

What, in your opinion, are the reasons for this? Certainly, South Asian and Arabs et al do not have access to more and exclusive concrete evidence than the people of developed countries, that they believe in so many conspiracy theories. So what other factors explain their mindset?

 

Does it have to do with being on the receiving end in the big scheme of things, of being paralysed by their collective failures, of being disappointed and bitter, that they seek to explain away the world in black-and-white, easy-to-understand, ready-made conspiracy theories, even though they are untrue, unfounded, whimsical, and sometimes just pure delusional and outrageous? Is it their refusal to own up to their own failures that they seek to lay the blame on 'the other' - the powerful outsider, and absolve themselves of the responsibility?

 

How far is this true?

 

Or, on the other hand, have the Westerners/Americans adopted complacent patterns of thinking and internalised apathetic worldview, in that they no longer strive to challenge the status quo, and stay content with what they have at hand? Is dissent beyond a certain comfort level is frowned upon and considered uncivilised in the West? Is it no longer personally profitable to bust the ring of falsehood when you have financial stability, social security, durable peace and high standards of living? Is questioning the official or mainstream narratives no longer necessary in an individualistic, personalised world?

 

How far is this true?

Edited by Marbles
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When people (mainly the "rational" Americans and the liberal crowds) are given cold and hard facts, they still snub it off as a conspiracy theory, as if to try and axiomatically discredit the one laying down the facts.

 

No one seems to comprehend the magnitude of possibilities given how fast technology has advanced. Nikola Tesla invented an "earthquake generator" during early 20th century without any funding from the government whatsoever, so you all think it is "irrational" that AWACS hijacking couldn't have taken place and made this airline disappear???

Calm down, I said in my experience.  I accept that I could be wrong in my idea that Americans are less likely to accept conspiracy theories.  This whole thing started over someone saying Westerners "never get connections", which should be at least equally ridiculous to your sensibilities.  

What, in your opinion, are the reasons for this? Certainly, South Asian and Arabs et al do not have access to more and exclusive concrete evidence than the people of developed countries, that they believe in so many conspiracy theories. So what other factors explain their mindset?

 

Does it have to do with being on the receiving end in the big scheme of things, of being paralysed by their collective failures, of being disappointed and bitter, that they seek to explain away the world in black-and-white, easy-to-understand, ready-made conspiracy theories, even though they are untrue, unfounded, whimsical, and sometimes just pure delusional and outrageous? Is it their refusal to own up to their own failures that they seek to lay the blame on 'the other' - the powerful outsider, and absolve themselves of the responsibility?

 

How far is this true?

 

Or, on the other hand, have the Westerners/Americans adopted complacent patterns of thinking and internalised apathetic worldview, in that they no longer strive to challenge the status quo, and stay content with what they have at hand? Is dissent beyond a certain comfort level is frowned upon and considered uncivilised in the West? Is it no longer personally profitable to bust the ring of falsehood when you have financial stability, social security, durable peace and high standards of living? Is questioning the official or mainstream narratives no longer necessary in an individualistic, personalised world?

 

How far is this true?

 

Yes, I do think it has to do with being on the receiving end in the big scheme of things, of being paralyzed by their collective failures and of course it is possible that Westerners/Americans adopted complacent patterns of thinking and internalized apathetic worldview.  

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I'm going to finally say what no one else will....
It is the first thought that came to my mind and has not gone away since...
      24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

While it seems clear to me that the disappearance of this plane was a deliberate hi-jacking... the question remains... by who, and to where?

The unspoken thought is, Could this be the beginning of the 'rapture'?  Unspoken because no one wants to look like a fruitcake?

Edited by CLynn
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Yes, I do think it has to do with being on the receiving end in the big scheme of things, of being paralyzed by their collective failures and of course it is possible that Westerners/Americans adopted complacent patterns of thinking and internalized apathetic worldview.  

 

Oh come on, sister, challenge the view. I have written a lot of simpleton generalisations. I'd like to know how do you see through the clutter.

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I'm going to finally say what no one else will....

It is the first thought that came to my mind and has not gone away since...

      24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

While it seems clear to me that the disappearance of this plane was a deliberate hi-jacking... the question remains... by who, and to where?

The unspoken thought is, Could this be the beginning of the 'rapture'?  Unspoken because no one wants to look like a fruitcake?

If you're gonna suggest Iran being behind then please get out of this forum already...

 

The photos of the two supposed Iranians using fake passports that the media has been parrotting endlessly about are CLEARLY DOCTORED and fake. Doesn't take a genius to figure it out

 

malaysia-airlines-3-b.png?w=604&h=418

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If you're gonna suggest Iran being behind then please get out of this forum already...

 

Greetings Praetorius,

 

Why would you direct that to me?  I neither think, nor suggest, any such thing.  :(  Defensive much?

Salaam,

CLynn

Edited by CLynn
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Until somebody searches the ocean floor with one of those little subs that can go to any depth (and have enabled mankind to map all the ocean floor sometime during the last decade), my instinct tells me that the plane has sunk and all the media machine is as usual using all those dead people to sell all sort of news.

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Oh come on, sister, challenge the view. I have written a lot of simpleton generalisations. I'd like to know how do you see through the clutter.

Seriously though, I agree with you.  All of what you said are possible reasons so I have nothing to argue about.  I thought you were just throwing some possible explanations out there.  If you said those are DEFINITELY the reasons, it would be different because you cannot ascertain that.

 

Oh, and here is a page with some research statistics related to Muslims and conspiracy theories: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Conspiracy_Theories I need statistics on Westerners and conspiracy theories to compare though.

Edited by Fatima Hussain
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Until somebody searches the ocean floor with one of those little subs that can go to any depth (and have enabled mankind to map all the ocean floor sometime during the last decade), my instinct tells me that the plane has sunk and all the media machine is as usual using all those dead people to sell all sort of news.

 

Greetings Darth,

 

The problem I have with that explanation is that if an airplane crashed into the sea wouldn't there be damage, and debris?  What about all the things on the airplane that float?  It seems likely they would rise to the surface and thus, 'floating debris', correct?

asalaam,

CLynn

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Greetings CLynn,

 

You're right but then there may have been debris and it may haven't been reported by the media. Anyway, this isn't the first time an aircraft has went missing without any trace at all. My own uncle, my mother's youngest brother, went missing during the 1971 war while spying for the military in their civilian PIA airplane (Dakota) and it was found eight months later when a shepherd spotted a small bit of tiny debris in the middle of nowhere. So my father, uncles and their friends traveled to the place after they got notified that the missing plane was found and reached there while it was being dug up out of the ground. My grandparents had been waiting all the while and believed their son was alive and taken P.O.W.

 

In the sea, debris can get scattered over a wide area and is not that easy to recognize. It depends when the craft breaks or if it breaks after losing cabin pressure to water pressure, e.g., submarine debris which will rise up clumped. In the latter case the debris is more obvious and bound to be recognizable by ships for example. in case of a violent disintegration and since much higher velocities and forces are involved in a airplane crash, only experienced search parties are liable to find clues.

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This thread is borderline racist. What do the Malaysian travelers have in common with the Malaysian nasibi authorities, besides their nationality?

Could you please quote the 'racist' part of this thread?

Besides that you think it is racist? Your and Fatima Hussein's claim are just ridiculous.

Only because this time it goes against Western 'science'.

 

And if you read my first comments, I wished all the pessengers to be save. Only the Malaysian government must feel ashamed.

 

What do the Malaysian travelers have in common with the Malaysian nasibi authorities, besides their nationality?

 

Where in the thread does it say they have? The plane is Malaysian. And the Malaysian authorities are meant to control their planes and security instead of persecuting Shia.

 

Come on brother. Do better next time.

Of course you can discuss whether it is God's sign or not, as stated in the thread title through a questionmark.

Other than that I could as well call your Mahdi threads as racist, as they call against Sufiyani, Persians(flag of Yamani, flag of Sufiani from Sham, flag of Khorasani etc.), or the Hadith on Najd and all the other stuff, would be borderline racist as well.

Edited by Shiabro
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