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Allahu_Akbar

Mut'ah With A Non Believer

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Asalamu alaikum

I have a question regarding mutah with a non believer.

I am currently unable to get married permanently and have found a girl willing to do mut'ah with me.

Unfortunately this girl is an agnostic. I understand most scholars (if not all?) Say you are only allowed to do mut'ah with a muslim or girl from ahlul kitab.

Are there any marjas that say it is allowed with a non-believer?

I live in England. It is very difficult to find a muslim girl who would agree to do mutah, so that rules them out. Out of the rest of the population here in England the vast majority of young people (excluding hindus etc) are all atheists or agnostics (if I was to guess maybe 90%+!!). Even if they did believe in god in some form, they are rarely from ahlul kitab.

This makes finding a girl for mut'ah extremely difficult.

This girl I know is a very nice girl and not a prostitute. I heard there is a marja who says it is allowed with prostitute even though most say it isn't, hence I was wondering if there are any marjas who allow it with a non believer given the circumstances.

Salam

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Asalamu alaikum

Are there any marjas that say it is allowed with a non-believer?

 

(salam)

So, long story short you want to find a marja' whose idea is matched with your desire !!

 

(Sorry if I said that, but my brother the matter of taqleed is not like that . You first go and choose something you want to do then you search for a marja' whose opinion is matched to what you have chosen, this action is not permissible in Islamic laws.)

 

But what to do in this situation.I really don't know but  I'd like to quot this verse of Quran:

 
وَ لْيَسْتَعْفِفِ الَّذينَ لا يَجِدُونَ نِكاحاً حَتَّى يُغْنِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ 
And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace
 
God be with you brother.
 
(wasalam)

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So do have any marja' or do you want to choose him according to what happened?!

 

If you don't mind I want to ask you: how did you find out that she is agnostic ? Is she really believe there is no god out there!

 

Did you ask her? Aren't her parents from ahlul al-kitab ?

Edited by Malik.Ashtar

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Salam alaikum,

Thank you for your kind and helpful replies.

Yes I asked her and her parents are also agnostic.

I do taqleed of sistani

I can totally see your point Maalik Ashtar. However I would not do this if this was simply a matter of desire and constant pick and choose. Being young and single in the west it is difficult to practise Islam properly because of lustful distractions and slowly affects all parts of my faith. (There is a reason marriage completes half of our faith, because it does affect us in every way).

So if a marja does allow it with a non believer it would strongly indicate to me he may be aware of such circumstances and hence possibly very knowledgeable. I would then have to do further research before I could conclude if he is MORE knowledgeable.

I never said I would do taqleed of him, just interested to find more. I appreciate your advice and the verse.

Not me, that's a good point.

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As you have mentioned there is no scholar permits a Muslim to marry a nonbeliever temporarily

By the way I did not get why you do not marry with christian women .Aren't there any one in England?!I used to believe most people there are Christians!!   

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Have you tried talking to Muslim women (Sunnis and Shia both) who are divorced and/or widowed? You will be surprised how many of them would be willing to do muta' after you enlighten them about it.  

 

In my experience, widowed and divorced Muslims women are more willing to do muta' once you make the right case after the trust is built, probably due to the lack of venues Muslim cultures put on divorced/widowed women. In fact they become the biggest proponent of it, because out of all those short sighted virgins running around, they have experienced first hand the reasons for which Allah swt's infinite wisdom shines in the marriage that is of time limit aka muta'.  

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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As you have mentioned there is no scholar permits a Muslim to marry a nonbeliever temporarily

By the way I did not get why you do not marry with christian women .Aren't there any one in England?!I used to believe most people there are Christians!!   

 

If they are practising Christians, they would not agree to mutah as it would be a major sin in their religion.  Kind of a problem….

Have you tried talking to Muslim women (Sunnis and Shia both) who are divorced and/or widowed? You will be surprised how many of them would be willing to do muta' after you enlighten them about it.  

 

In my experience, widowed and divorced Muslims women are more willing to do muta' once you make the right case after the trust is built, probably due to the lack of venues Muslim cultures put on divorced/widowed women. In fact they become the biggest proponent of it, because out of all those short sighted virgins running around, they have experienced first hand the reasons for which Allah swt's infinite wisdom shines in the marriage that is of time limit aka muta'.  

 

I agree - dont know about the short sighted virgins part ( :donno: ), but experienced women know what they are getting into and don't have romanticized aspirations.  

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Salam alaikum,

Thank you for your kind and helpful replies.

Yes I asked her and her parents are also agnostic.

I do taqleed of sistani

I can totally see your point Maalik Ashtar. However I would not do this if this was simply a matter of desire and constant pick and choose. Being young and single in the west it is difficult to practise Islam properly because of lustful distractions and slowly affects all parts of my faith. (There is a reason marriage completes half of our faith, because it does affect us in every way).

So if a marja does allow it with a non believer it would strongly indicate to me he may be aware of such circumstances and hence possibly very knowledgeable. I would then have to do further research before I could conclude if he is MORE knowledgeable.

I never said I would do taqleed of him, just interested to find more. I appreciate your advice and the verse.

Not me, that's a good point.

 

Look, if you're trying to justify this to yourself, you should be honest to yourself and not drag Islam into it. Cleaner that way. Being divorced myself and in the in between, I can understand the frustrations and loneliness. The urge for companionship is strong. But be honest to yourself that if you're ready to have a relationship with someone with no belief in God or revealed religion, that it is companionship is the driving motivation for you, not a desire to "practice your religion." That's rationalization. You can't practice your religion better by violating one of its clear laws. It doesn't compute. 

 

I kind of took a look down this road last year - not too far, but took a look, just to kind of reassure myself that I'm desirable and that if things got really bad waiting it out, that there's a temporary emergency exit. But I saw enough to realize it's not a viable path. What kind of relationship can you have with someone beyond a certain point if you don't share belief in that most important thing. With a Christian or Jew, there are differences, but the relationship is only for a time and you share enough belief in God, prophets, revealed books, that it's not like you're speaking alien languages to each other.

The best case you could get with an atheist is a relaxed sort of tolerant type who accepts religion as part of your character as a lifestyle choice the same way someone else likes some exotic food she doesn't really understand. She won't bother you for eating it, but she'll be upset if you ever try to bring it to share it. And ultimately relationships are about sharing yourself. How can you go along with not being able to share something important to you?

 

If you're in university, maybe a better plan is to join a multi-faith discussion club. You'll learn something, you'll meet people who share belief, and maybe you'll meet a temporarily compatible girl there.

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Have you tried talking to Muslim women (Sunnis and Shia both) who are divorced and/or widowed? You will be surprised how many of them would be willing to do muta' after you enlighten them about it.  

 

In my experience, widowed and divorced Muslims women are more willing to do muta' once you make the right case after the trust is built, probably due to the lack of venues Muslim cultures put on divorced/widowed women. In fact they become the biggest proponent of it, because out of all those short sighted virgins running around, they have experienced first hand the reasons for which Allah swt's infinite wisdom shines in the marriage that is of time limit aka muta'.  

 

This doesn't mean that divorcees/widows are easy. In fact I am very insulted by this notion of men approaching me, as a divorced woman for muta. We are not more likely to say yes to casual sex, if I am ever asked again then I may be tempted to give a glaswegian kiss to the man in question. And yes, divorced women want and need romance too, that's not just for the virgins.

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If they are practising Christians, they would not agree to mutah as it would be a major sin in their religion.  Kind of a problem….

 

That is what I have never been able to understand.  

 

How can Islam allow a partnership which would be an outright sin for the other party?

 

Surely, Islam would have known that temporary marriage is not permitted for Christians.

 

How can it tell Muslims - go and find a Christian girl who is prepared to commit a sin ?

 

And when you have had your fun, I am going to put her in hell.

 

But don't worry about that.

 

You might as well make use of her body before it burns in hell. 

 

Is that what "enjoining the good and forbidding the evil" are all about? 

 

Sounds like a very selfish thing to do!
 
Not very becoming of a religion from God !   

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That is what I have never been able to understand.  

 

How can Islam allow a partnership which would be an outright sin for the other party?

 

Surely, Islam would have known that temporary marriage is not permitted for Christians.

 

How can it tell Muslims - go and find a Christian girl who is prepared to commit a sin ?

 

And when you have had your fun, I am going to put her in hell.

 

But don't worry about that.

 

You might as well make use of her body before it burns in hell. 

 

Is that what "enjoining the good and forbidding the evil" are all about? 

 

Sounds like a very selfish thing to do!
 
Not very becoming of a religion from God !   

 

 

First of all, in christianity, having "relationships" is normal. Second, do you not think that maybe, just maybe, Christianity during Muhammad A.S time till now has maybe changed? Third, how would it be a sin, if they technically are getting  married, better yet under the banner of Islam? Not to mention, Islam doesnt force any christian to do anything. Mutah isnt forced by no means, to anyone. I never understand how it always is misunderstood or misinterpreted that way. 99.9999999999999999999% of the time, when a mumin, a pious believer, someone who fully submits to the command of Allah, who truly follows the path of Muhammad A.S and the Ahlulbayt A.S, enjoins in a mutah with a being, I guarantee you it isnt a matter of get used and tossed. Although Mutah means pleasure, it is a means of marriage, LITERALLY. Im sure, a christian of faith, who allows his/her daughter/son to enjoin in a mutah and understands its purpose and significance will not see it as a sin since it cant be considered a sin in the first place. I dont see how. Mutah isnt boy/girl friend, its marriage. Not to mention, who says they need to agree to sexual desires within the contract? I hope some matters are cleared...

 

(wasalam)

Edited by PureEthics

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Christians are not allowed to have sex outside of marriage, but they can be your girlfriend in a restricted mutah.

If they have a Christian marriage and an Islamic temporary marriage, they aren't guilty of any sin. Christians are advised but not ordered to only marry co-religionists. Divorce or termination of marriage is not recognized, but the separation isn't the sin. She wouldn't be guilty of sin until she remarries. Basically, a Christian can engage in unrestricted mutah without committing a sin as long as she also has a Christian marriage, but she would be consigning herself to being alone for the rest of her life once the temporary union terminates.

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Christians are not allowed to have sex outside of marriage, but they can be your girlfriend in a restricted mutah.

If they have a Christian marriage and an Islamic temporary marriage, they aren't guilty of any sin. Christians are advised but not ordered to only marry co-religionists. Divorce or termination of marriage is not recognized, but the separation isn't the sin. She wouldn't be guilty of sin until she remarries. Basically, a Christian can engage in unrestricted mutah without committing a sin as long as she also has a Christian marriage, but she would be consigning herself to being alone for the rest of her life once the temporary union terminates.

 

Isn't the vow in Christian marriage that they marry till death parts them?  And the vow is made to God before witnesses.  

 

So…How can they knowingly enter into a marriage, in the Christian church, a marriage that they have plans to end after a certain period of time - definitely before death.  Agreeing to marry for 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years would not be recognized at all as a Christian marriage.  And the church has to bless the marriage or they are not married in the eyes of the church (of God?)

 

I am as confused as baqar when it is continually mentioned that mutah can be with people of the book when it is known that it is a major sin for Christians to have sex outside of (Christian) marriage…. so if they go ahead anyway, are they still really a Christian? - as they don't follow the rules of their religion? 

 

I dont think it can be done from their side.  Now people that call themselves Christian but dont practice their religion - they may agree to contract mutah - but then - are you really marrying a Christian or just one who uses the term Christian.  Does it matter?  Does the person have to be a practising Christian?

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I agree - dont know about the short sighted virgins part ( :donno: ), but experienced women know what they are getting into and don't have romanticized aspirations.

Should had put a qualifier.. I'm not advocating virgins to practice sexual Muta. What I meant to say was that the biggest opposition of mutah, as much as rejection of Quran a la Umer Laeen style, comes from those who are either virgins or happily married. For these women, as if the divorced and widowed women don't even exist. Kind of tells of self centered nature of womankind who, as long as her things are in order, shows ZERO concern or empathy for their less fortunate kindred.

Sabrina Abbass: I didn't mean to say widowed or divorced women are 'easy to get'. In my experience they seem to 'understand' the wisdom behind mutah more now that the circumstances have changed for them, as oppose to when they were virgins and had higher matchability value before.

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Im sure, a christian of faith, who allows his/her daughter/son to enjoin in a mutah and understands its purpose and significance will not see it as a sin since it cant be considered a sin in the first place. I dont see how. Mutah isnt boy/girl friend, its marriage. Not to mention, who says they need to agree to sexual desires within the contract? I hope some matters are cleared...

 

(wasalam)

 

If they are practising, they will see sexual mutah as a sin. A big sin. Relationships without sex are allowed though.

Should had put a qualifier.. I'm not advocating virgins to practice sexual Muta. What I meant to say was that the biggest opposition of mutah, as much as rejection of Quran a la Umer Laeen style, comes from those who are either virgins or happily married. For these women, as if the divorced and widowed women don't even exist. Kind of tells of self centered nature of womankind who, as long as her things are in order, shows ZERO concern or empathy for their less fortunate kindred.

 

That is not true - stop being so hostile.

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Should had put a qualifier.. I'm not advocating virgins to practice sexual Muta. What I meant to say was that the biggest opposition of mutah, as much as rejection of Quran a la Umer Laeen style, comes from those who are either virgins or happily married. For these women, as if the divorced and widowed women don't even exist. Kind of tells of self centered nature of womankind who, as long as her things are in order, shows ZERO concern or empathy for their less fortunate kindred.

 

Couldn't agree more.

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That is what I have never been able to understand.

How can Islam allow a partnership which would be an outright sin for the other party?

Surely, Islam would have known that temporary marriage is not permitted for Christians.

Yours is a WRONG argument on many levels.

One of these is this:

A Christian person who is following his religion suddenly out of his logic and pondering realizes that Jesus was not the son of God and that God is immaculate of humanly associations. But Baqar and Maryam would reject him outright saying that, since your religion forces you to believe the Jesus as son of God, you have to believe in those wrong beliefs because your corrupted sharia says so.

Islam is not concerned of what others do, Islam is the most correct and the highest authority on human law, and Islam knows this, and Islam has no shyness in thumping the chest saying that 'I'm THE only path'.

Anybody who practices Islamic injunctions or part of, Islam welcomes it. If a Christian follows (chooses to out of her understanding then even better) the true sharia of Allah swt, then Islam allows it, in fact appreciates it, because by this one door, this Christian woman might see the full light of the truth of Islam.

Islam WANTS the Christians and Jews to follow the Islamic sharia because this is the only right Deen (religion or pathway) of Allah swt. If due to the influence of a Muslim man, a Christian woman follows one such rules of the Deen of Allah swt, then be it. Islam welcomes that.

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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A Christian person who is following his religion suddenly out of his logic and pondering realizes that Jesus was not the son of God and that God is immaculate of humanly associations. But Baqar and Maryam would reject him outright saying that, since your religion forces you to believe the Jesus as son of God, you have to believe in it.

 

 Then they would no longer be Christian - that does not make sense.

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They would still be Christians. A slightly better one actually because they would be following Jesus the Christ (as) an inch better.

 

Christians believe Jesus   (as) is "God".  If they no longer believe that than they are not Christians. That is their belief.

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Does the person have to be a practising Christian?w

 

'Practicing' is a very vague word.  There are different levels of 'practicing' Christians or Muslims or whatever.

 

But I definitely think she would have to be a 'believing' Christian - one who believes in the precepts of Christianity, according to which there is no such thing as a temporary marriage.

 

Jesus said very clearly that  divorce is equivalent to adultery.

 

Well then, very clearly, a Christian who rejects the principle of a 'do unto death' marriage cannot be described as a Christian. 

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'Practicing' is a very vague word. There are different levels of 'practicing' Christians or Muslims or whatever.

But I definitely think she would have to be a 'believing' Christian - one who believes in the precepts of Christianity, according to which there is no such thing as a temporary marriage.

Jesus said very clearly that divorce is equivalent to adultery.

Well then, very clearly, a Christian who rejects the principle of a 'do unto death' marriage cannot be described as a Christian.

Don't loose yourself in the terminology Christian or Jew.

Those who say we follow Bible, what do you want them to do, follow bible in its corruption or follow bible in its true form? If a Muslim man brings a Christian woman to follow bible in its true form, then is it good or bad?

If I convince my Christian friend to eat halal and not drink alcohol, is it bringing him closer to the message of bible or not? Am I making him a better follower of bible or worst?

Same goes for Muta, a Christian or Jewish woman practicing Muta is actually following Bible and Torah a little better than she was before.

I think I've sufficiently solved your and Baqar dilemma up in those three sentences.

Think think !!!!

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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'Practicing' is a very vague word.  There are different levels of 'practicing' Christians or Muslims or whatever.

 

But I definitely think she would have to be a 'believing' Christian - one who believes in the precepts of Christianity, according to which there is no such thing as a temporary marriage.

 

Jesus said very clearly that  divorce is equivalent to adultery.

 

Well then, very clearly, a Christian who rejects the principle of a 'do unto death' marriage cannot be described as a Christian. 

 

So are divorced Christians actually still married but committing adultery with their new "spouse"?

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So are divorced Christians actually still married but committing adultery with their new "spouse"?

 

Well, we are getting a bit confused.

At least I am.

 

What I should have said was that if she is a Catholic, she is definitely committing adultery with her new 'spouse'.

 

On these grounds, apart from other things that I cannot understand, we must at least make sure that the person is not a Catholic.  

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Well, we are getting a bit confused.

At least I am.

 

What I should have said was that if she is a Catholic, she is definitely committing adultery with her new 'spouse'.

 

On these grounds, apart from other things that I cannot understand, we must at least make sure that the person is not a Catholic.  

 

Ditto

 

and yes, maybe if they are not Catholic - coming from their perspective, that is.

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So are divorced Christians actually still married but committing adultery with their new "spouse"?

Yes.

That is a good question about the vow though. The Bible doesn't say "until death". It just says that a person who divorces and remarries is an adulterer. I wonder if a vow is binding.

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Yes.

That is a good question about the vow though. The Bible doesn't say "until death". It just says that a person who divorces and remarries is an adulterer. I wonder if a vow is binding.

 

You are supposed to be making a vow to God - before witnesses too - so I would think that is pretty binding.. 

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Ditto

 

and yes, maybe if they are not Catholic - coming from their perspective, that is.

 

If they are not Catholic, it is still a very selfish thing to contract a deal that could mean a big loss to the partner and shut the door of heaven on her.

 

I think we should all abandon any thought of trying to dupe a poor Christian woman.

 

if you have to do muta, find a Muslim widow or divorcee or something of the sort.

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Why are people talking about Christian law as if it works the same way and follows the same logos as Islamic law?  Christianity is broken up into thousands of sects and confessions, there is very little coherent legal system, there is huge disagreement on rules about pretty much everything (alcohol, pork, marital affairs, violence, etc), and also the fact that many are historical anachronisms or personal and institutional whims.  Muslims have these issues too, but are light years ahead on the simple core basics.  For god's sake, they can't agree if God is one or three. 

 

Again you make it so complicated.  People will say no or yes to mutah based on their own personal reasons, don't drag their religion into it.  Because the Christian religion is anything you want it to be. 

Edited by magma

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You are supposed to be making a vow to God - before witnesses too - so I would think that is pretty binding..

It seems so, but since it this particular vow comes from tradition not scripture, I wonder if a valid Christian marriage could be performed without it. I'd imagine it would be extremely difficult to find a preist or preacher or pastor who would agree to officiate a temporary Christian marriage.

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Can you imagine justifying mutah to a devout Christian?

"Hey Jennifer. I like you and want to do temporary marriage with you."

"What is that? I don't believe in temporary marriage."

"Why not? I am just bringing you closer to the Bible's true meaning."

And then you argue about how Muslims believe Christianity is just inferior Islam who needs updated scripture, and guess what? You have the same problem as doing mutah with an atheist, the only difference being that she believes in God.

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Christians believe Jesus   (as) is "God".  If they no longer believe that than they are not Christians. That is their belief.

 

 

بِسْــــــــــــــــــمِ اﷲِالرَّحْمَنِ اارَّحِيم

 

 

Sister, this is far from the truth. There are many, many denominations and sects within Christianity and if you are familiar with early Christianity, many Scholars prefer to call it: Early Christianties since there were so many competing ideologies and interpretations of the Message of the Son of Mary [a]. Even nowadays, not all Christians believe Jesus is God. Trinitarians, for example, don't consider Jesus divine.

 

Ws. 

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