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Abu Hadi

Barriers For Marriage.

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I highly disagree with the point notme made, you do need a job to marry. How will you survive without a job? Yes, you do need a degree to get into certain sectors, if not a degree then some sort of qualification will do.

I misspoke I guess. I said you need to be self sufficient, and for that you will need a job. What I meant is that you don't need any particular job or a high paying job. Degree or qualifications can be obtained by married or unmarried people. You don't need to have them to marry, you just need a career plan and goals and the willingness to work hard.

Maybe, but the cost to the muslim ummah of them not going against unreasonable parents is even higher. Isn't it obvious now for everyone to see ? I am not trying to say that the entire problem lies with the sisters, but this is definitely a major part of it.

Also, you are not on your own. Allah(s.w.a) wali al lethina aminu....

(Allah is the guardian and protector of those who believe)

You can't reasonably ask a young woman to sacrifice her family! That is way more burden than most people can bear. As I said before, the parents with their unreasonable expectations and restrictions need to be educated. Why not ask scholars or other men to take on that bear rather than asking the girls to do it?

I wonder what happens to that oft-mentioned mythical love the parents have for their children, though. Does that love only works so long as children do as said like robots or is it unconditional? :unsure:

.

I guess unconditional love is less powerful than stubbornness for some parents.

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Oh boy, this will be a long one.

 

First of all, marriage isn't economically viable, especially in today's time when prices are rising faster than the number of jobs available in the market. Sure, jobs exist should I decide to drive an oil tanker in Northern Canada, but yeah... I'd rather not.

 

In other words, marriage is delayed cause careers are starting later, cause more education is required even in the most basic jobs and so on.

 

And the other major reasons in this pathetically backward cultural baggage from 'back home'. Oh the wonders of this Pakistani culture, apparently my country which I have only seen for 6 months at maximum, which is roughly cumulative for say four or five visits.. Out of these 6 months, I had to spend time either in home, or at someone else's home, eating some fine Pakistani cuisine which will make my stomach go crazy in the bathroom.

 

Why I spend time in home you might ask?

 

Well cause one day there is curfew, the next day firing, or mass kidnapping, or this or that, I walk out, people freak out and take me back in cause the 'current' situation is bad.

 

 

Wait a minute, I wasn't born yesterday, Pakistan's condition is bad all year round, since I can remember as far back, there is something bad happening.

 

So when I never saw this country, have always heard nothing but the good ol' (halaat kharab) situation of Pakistan, got diarrhea eating it's cholesterol induced food, a country where me being a Shi'a will get me a bullet to the head (at times), why the hell should I follow this country's culture?

 

But heck I have to, if not, then there will be a mass heart-attack to all family members. I mean, something-something, tears go loose, like a waterfall, and all of a sudden everyone is getting a heart-attack.

 

Never mind the Pakistani food is nothing but spices, cholesterol, no veggies whatsoever (eating veggies will make you Indian; the enemy) and more cholesterol. But noooo, heart problems happen cause of YOU!

 

Some Science.

 

Then, Pakistanis mingle with one and other so much, I mean so much that other's perceptions regarding me has to be the standard. I mean I must walk the walk, so that this uncle and aunty, as per their fifty year old mentality from 'back home', all the way from Pakistan will judge me, living in the West, I see no co-relation, but must live a life that pleases them. 

 

Yes, I have to live a life which pleases the crowd a person's parents mingle. And this crowd is everywhere, doesn't matter where you go, the Pakistani culture is that backward, from the 'secular' Pakistani household, to a 'religious' one.

 

Pakistani culture > Islam. Sad.

 

Which brings my main point.

 

My barriers are:

 

1) She has to be a Syed, cause you know, non-Syeds are inferior. Like really inferior. Can't mix my royal bloodline with a non-Sayed, it would give me a faulty offspring.

 

2) If she is a 'najmutarafan' (Both parents are Syeds = better than single parent being a Syed or Syed ^2squared > S ^1) hence she must be God-send.

 

3) Has to be from the city one's parents grew up in, cause other cities..bad.

 

4) Same ethnicity, since you know [insert infinite stereotypes] regarding the other people. The Prophet (pbuh) brought tribes together.. ahh, never mind.

 

4) Has to be from the same NEIGHBOURHOOD, one's parents grew up, if, and only if, she is not the cousin. Cousin marriage is the best. Never mind genetic problems. .. Ok yes I know one-timer is fine, but the glorious culture has been breeding this way for generations. 

 

5) She is a crowd-pleaser. Who cares if she is religious or not, if she can rock that hijab at the time of a dua, and recite something (no Quran recitation please, only Wahhabis do that :dry:) offers other aunties chai, then she is the best daughter-in-law material ever. Period.

 

Who cares about the attributes the person who is actually doing the marriage wants. No way!

What the parents want, based on other people's perception, and in respect with this back ward culture, must only happen. Islamic or not, that is secondary, a culture from a country that I never saw, is on the downward spiral ever since I was born is what matters. Period.

 

Any resistance, and the heart-attack threats start.

 

And why these conditions?

 

Because marriage isn't a boy and girl getting married, but that day, their entire generations (past, present, future) gets married,. (Can't even comprehend this awesome logic)

 

So yeah, I must abide my these unrealistic barriers, if only my culture wasn't this backward, and unrealistic expectations that means absolutely nothing as far as Islam is concerned was placed upon my head, I would be content.

 

 

And yeah before you judge, I am no 'burger boy', I can speak, read, write Urdu, have all the famous poems and patriotic songs memorized at one point in time or anything,

 

It is good to follow your culture in say, a cultural event, it is good to show off your ancestry, your heritage, get involve in charities that do good to your people back home, and stuff of the sort, even wear your traditional clothes, good to represent, but to abide every single rule of it while living on the other side of the globe does not make sense.

 

</rant>

Sooooo this post just killed the dream of a pakistani husband, as I am neither pakistani, south Asian or syeda.

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Ooooh….That is very patronizing – especially coming from someone who will never personally suffer the experience of being a young female on their own with no family, perhaps no education (as they married so young), a baby or two, and, of course, no emotional or financial support with the added insult where they  and their children become the target of community backbiting.  You can, however, shake your head sadly, and perhaps shed a tear or two, at their harsh lifelong reality – which would be oh so very gracious and empathetic, but would do absolutely nothing to change their situation.

 

The ummah has to change through tried and true methods of change - education and enlightenment – not by the promotion of young sisters as martyrs for the eventual “greater good”.  We don’t use our sisters as fodder nor do we use them as therapy mats to cure societal dysfunction.

 

The way this will change is when there is support for that change – real support - from both families and from the community.

 

Salam, 

 

You are making alot of assumption here. I have never experienced being a young female, but I have experience being a young male, no job,  , no education (at that time) abandoned by family after becoming muslim, being cut out of a substantial inheirtance for being muslim, no wife and no prospects because I wasn't the right ethnicity and didn't have the right income. This was the situation for about 5 years, then it changed, by the Grace of Allah(s.w.a). 

 

So by your logic, then most reverts shouldn't have accepted Islam because this happens to many of them. Everyone goes thru things but you have to think what is the right thing to do, what is the Haqq, and what would be pleasing to Allah(s.w.a), no just what is better for the dunya. 

 

Noone is asking anyone to be foder, just simply follow the authentic hadith (this is repeated in the book of Sayyid Sistani(ha) in case anyone doesn't believe it is authentic) that 'IF a man comes to you and you are satisfied with his Deen and Aklaq, then marry him to yourself, otherwise you would have caused great corruption on earth'. Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) said this, not me. And there are many sisters who are not marrying young brothers, despite their having good deen and aklaq (because their families don't approve for reasons other than deen and aklaq) and there is Great corruption on earth and within our own community. So the hadith is true. Is there anyone who would like to argue this point ? I didn't think so. 

 

 

Also, please take note that the hadith didn't mention 'If your family is satisfied with him..'. It also didn't mention anything besides deen and aklaq. This is the most ignored hadith, but if it were less ignored, the world would be a better place, IMO. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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So who basically is at fault here and whose thinking needs to change? Why would parents make it a life and death problem if their children marry a person of their own choice if there's nothing un-Islamic about it?

 

There is something seriously wrong with a system when parents threaten to kick their offspring out and never want to see them again if they marry a person the daddy doesn't like. Where does this happen except in our rotten backward cultures?

 

Anyway, I don't blame the young ones for acquiescing and conforming to the family threats, esp girls. Life is tough and things go awry and parents esp daddies have a habit of wallowing in lifelong righteous rage if their daughters go against their will. Not only people need family support but the children may live with guilt if they leave their parents and the parents later die angry with them.

 

I wonder what happens to that oft-mentioned mythical love the parents have for their children, though. Does that love only works so long as children do as said like robots or is it unconditional?  :unsure:


 

The entire problem lies with the parents, as sis notme said.

 

The responsibility is shared. Parents do not like to see their children in broken marriages , if a child decided on his own to go on with a plan, they do not want anything to do with that plan. If a girl was divorced then she shall back to her parents house with her extension (kids). Some parents are not ready to handle more members in the family. Some feel that those kids are not their responsibility . Some parents do not want to baby sit the newly wed when their marriage goes broken, trying to solve a marriage that is doomed since its beginning .

 

Kids on the other hand are the ones who will suffer either their own choices or their parents choices, they are the true losers and winners in this bargain. It is immature to call yourself an adult who is ready to start a family then blame it all on the parents, sounds like underage behavior .

 

Best way is to set an approach to a new reality of our modern life. You cannot come to a father and say "Listen I know i am not from your race and i know you are a bunch of racist culture and i know that your culture has nothing to do with Islam, but I am going to tell you and teach you what islam say because I know better than you so you better give me your daughter…<< seriously, this is the most disrespectful approach . I put it in an exaggerated comical way but if that's how you think, then that's how it will sound.

 

Cultural standards were set to secure some values according to certain age and place. It was culturally unacceptable to see a woman till the day of wedding, but back then, most boys had seen the girls because they marry way too early, he had seen her playing in nearby street. Today, this is not the case lol NOW that was a lame example but you see how things got changed. 

If you want to propose to someone by breaking some cultural norms, you are going to fail. If you want to propose to another culture, you should show respect to yours and theirs. Calling our cultures backward and rotten will get you nowhere!

 

Present your case  respectfully. Instead of presenting yourself as Pakistani, present yourself as American/British/Canadian etc. People can relate to these cultures due to them living it or due to the globalization effect. Instead of presenting yourself as against the norms, present yourself as the best choice. Bring money for the love of God, bring attitude, bring respectful social network (not FB). Bring reasons that can convince the parents that the marriage will be stable.

Respect the girl culture. If you are a Pakistani seeking Arab or non Desi girl, respect their tendency to independence and provide and separate house from your family house.

 

point is, to make these new trendy marriages work, you have to make them look natural , healthy and have positive effect on the overall situation. Unnatural Hollywood like love stories are not going to make it.

 

Salam, 

 

You are making alot of assumption here. I have never experienced being a young female, but I have experience being a young male, no job,  , no education (at that time) abandoned by family after becoming muslim, being cut out of a substantial inheirtance for being muslim, no wife and no prospects because I wasn't the right ethnicity and didn't have the right income. This was the situation for about 5 years, then it changed, by the Grace of Allah(s.w.a). 

welcome to the life of a muslim.

So by your logic, then most reverts shouldn't have accepted Islam because this happens to many of them. Everyone goes thru things but you have to think what is the right thing to do, what is the Haqq, and what would be pleasing to Allah(s.w.a), no just what is better for the dunya. 

 

lol really? you became a muslim to marry a muslim girl?

 

Noone is asking anyone to be foder, just simply follow the authentic hadith (this is repeated in the book of Sayyid Sistani(ha) in case anyone doesn't believe it is authentic) that 'IF a man comes to you and you are satisfied with his Deen and Aklaq, then marry him to yourself, otherwise you would have caused great corruption on earth'. Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) said this, not me. And there are many sisters who are not marrying young brothers, despite their having good deen and aklaq (because their families don't approve for reasons other than deen and aklaq) and there is Great corruption on earth and within our own community. So the hadith is true. Is there anyone who would like to argue this point ? I didn't think so. 

 

Also, Quran says :

7_199.png
Sahih International

Take what is given freely, enjoin what is good, and turn away from the ignorant

 

The enjoining good here dose not include to promote family ties being cut.

Also, please take note that the hadith didn't mention 'If your family is satisfied with him..'. It also didn't mention anything besides deen and aklaq. This is the most ignored hadith, but if it were less ignored, the world would be a better place, IMO. 

 

Most classical answer to this emotional protest from the traditional parents will be (And i don't even need to ask them honestly, i can just predict it, at least this will be my father answer)

1- Revert is not obliged to marry a born Muslim

2- If reverts want to be treated like born muslims without extra privileges then they got it. Born Muslims have to endure these harsh cultural realities, why would reverts be an exception?

 

I do generally agree with your opinion , I just think that this approach to this problem is wrong.


^ Would you really ask young girls to fight the battles of the ummah? What happened to men being the leaders because they are stronger?

there are no men, else we wouldn't be living this miserable situation.

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there are no men, else we wouldn't be living this miserable situation.

I'd like to think there are still some, though far too few. I know a few males - my father, brother, sister's husband - who are men, but they are non-Muslim. I suspect a few Muslim men still exist, but I've yet to meet one IRL. I don't really hang out with men, so perhaps my hopeful thinking is delusional. I hope somehow my sons can escape this perpetual boyhood culture and become men.

Edited by notme

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And there are many sisters who are not marrying young brothers, despite their having good deen and aklaq (because their families don't approve for reasons other than deen and aklaq) and there is Great corruption on earth and within our own community. So the hadith is true. Is there anyone who would like to argue this point ? I didn't think so. 

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^ Would you really ask young girls to fight the battles of the ummah? What happened to men being the leaders because they are stronger?

 

They both need to fight it. They both have their roles to play. I am highlighting the sisters role only because there are so many sisters here that seem to think they have no role and no responsibility and the corruption is 100% the fault of the brothers. 

Except I know of at least two instances, in my own extended family where this hadith was in fact not ignored, men with seemingly impeccable akhlaq and good deen were accepted, and great corruption ensued, inevitably leading to divorce.

 

This hadith is not a guarantee that nothing will ever go wrong in the marriage. Both people need to stick with good deen and aklaq. If one or both abandon this, then obviously problems will happen.

Edited by Abu Hadi

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Granted, today, some men are just overgrown boys, and they should approach things like how it is laid out above ^. 

 

It is fine to tell men to become men but is it enough to change the minds of girls' parents if men are actually men? I don't think so. Most often the knee-jerk rejections that we get do not have to do with men not being men, but for other reasons, a few of which have been mentioned in this thread.

 

So there's a man who is a man, financially secured, flaunting his degrees, has no bad track record, is not dependent on mommy and daddy for meals and chai, respectful of the culture of the girls parents, willing to make compromises if there are practical considerations involved, in short, approaching things as they should be approached, the girl is fully on board, but he still gets told by the parents to bug off because ___ (insert parents favourite obsession).

 

Reverse genders, same story, but men are in a stronger position to assert their choice and rebel against their parents, precisely because we are working within patriarchal cultures.

 

The responsibility is shared. Parents do not like to see their children in broken marriages , if a child decided on his own to go on with a plan, they do not want anything to do with that plan. If a girl was divorced then she shall back to her parents house with her extension (kids). Some parents are not ready to handle more members in the family. Some feel that those kids are not their responsibility . Some parents do not want to baby sit the newly wed when their marriage goes broken, trying to solve a marriage that is doomed since its beginning .

 

Yes, I have read your post in full and what you have said is fine, in theory, and I concur with it. That's how men should behave and approach. And no, we're not talking about unrealistic, impulsive, hollywood-type love stories where people change minds in every other scene. All right then...

 

To focus on the emboldened point, what if the spouse is chosen/approved by the parents and the marriage still fails? I don't see children in troubled marriages blaming their parents for choosing the 'wrong person' so why would parents go on about it ad nauseam if their children choose themselves and the marriage doesn't work? Why should the parents hold their noses up and still deny help and support to their battered and beleaguered children?

 

The very fact that parents aren't on-board with the plan often directly or indirectly leads to the very failure of the marriage, in a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. The emotional/psychological toll on a person going against their parents may poison their marriage, when their spouse is not accepted and respected by the parents.

 

It looks to me that gong-like parental outbursts of how they love and care for their children only works when, like Allah, they get total submission from them. Why? And if it is not a sign of a rotten patriarchal culture, what is it? (and by that I am not singling out any particular culture but all Eastern cultures which have this problem today).

 

We see a lot of chatter in Islamic discourse about 'the rights of parents'; how about 'the rights of children' for a change?

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They both need to fight it. They both have their roles to play. I am highlighting the sisters role only because there are so many sisters here that seem to think they have no role and no responsibility and the corruption is 100% the fault of the brothers.

You seem to be missing my point. Rather than place the responsibility on young women OR young men, why not educate the parents? Or are people over 35 too old to learn anything new or be asked to change their ways?

My complaints about our modern culture devaluing men is a separate issue.

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The parents are not on Shiachat. The vast majority of the members here are under 30.If they were here in large numbers, I would address them also. 

But the parents cannot torpedo a potential marriage that meets the Islamic criteria for un-islamic reasons without the consent of the potential bride. 

Remeber, silence is also consent, in most cases. The exception to this is if the parent threaten her life or threaten to injure her or do something physically to her that would cause a permenant, debilitating injury and she is very certain that they will follow thru with the threat. In that case, she has an excuse. 

 

That is why I never condemn a sister individually for turning down a proposal that meets the Islamic criteria, because the above may be the case. I know that this does happen, but it is rare, especially in the West, so most of the time, it is for some other reason. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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The parents are not on Shiachat. The vast majority of the members here are under 30.If they were here in large numbers, I would address them.

True, very few parents of young adults are on shiachat. But what would happen if a delegation of young men and women went to their moulana and asked him to talk about barriers to marriage? Would the parents listen? Who does have influence over them and how could those influential people be reached?

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Probably thru the masjid. That's a good idea and it has been done before in Dearborn, at least. 

Sayyid Qazwini and other ulema in Dearborn have talked about this exact thing, unfortunately, it fall on deaf ears.

Sayyid Sistani(ha), Sayyid Fadlallah(ra), and Imam Khameni(ha) have also talked about this. 

The parents who have boys listen, and the parents who have girls don't. The parents who have girls and boys think it applies for their boys and not their girls. 

 

I think this has to be intiated by the young sisters themselves within their own families in order for it to be effective. IMO. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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But the parents cannot torpedo a potential marriage that meets the Islamic criteria for un-islamic reasons without the consent of the potential bride.

Remeber, silence is also consent, in most cases. The exception to this is if the parent threaten her life or threaten to injure her or do something physically to her that would cause a permenant, debilitating injury and she is very certain that they will follow thru with the threat. In that case, she has an excuse.

That is why I never condemn a sister individually for turning down a proposal that meets the Islamic criteria, because the above may be the case. I know that this does happen, but it is rare, especially in the West, so most of the time, it is for some other reason.

The rest of this all comes across as rather condescending. It sounds as if you are condemning categorically if not individually, those who refuse to break family ties for the sake of marriage. I understand that you lost a part of your family when you converted, but others in your family converted before you (yes, I read your story). Think of the hardship for one who is young and utterly alone. You have no idea what these people suffer. I lost my family for a time too when I converted - all of them. Later they came around, but that isn't always the case. I chose my path. It was heartbreaking sometimes. I would never condemn, individually or categorically, any man or woman who makes different choices. Family is important - very important. Breaking relations with them is serious and has lasting consequences. Think about that before you give advice.

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The rest of this all comes across as rather condescending. It sounds as if you are condemning categorically if not individually, those who refuse to break family ties for the sake of marriage. I understand that you lost a part of your family when you converted, but others in your family converted before you (yes, I read your story). Think of the hardship for one who is young and utterly alone. You have no idea what these people suffer. I lost my family for a time too when I converted - all of them. Later they came around, but that isn't always the case. I chose my path. It was heartbreaking sometimes. I would never condemn, individually or categorically, any man or woman who makes different choices. Family is important - very important. Breaking relations with them is serious and has lasting consequences. Think about that before you give advice.

 

Well I'm happy you read my story, but there is more to it. I come from a large, established and very close knit family in California and they also saw the interview of Ahl Al Bayt TV (im pretty sure though I haven't asked them directly) 

When I became muslim, only my mother and my sister were muslim, others converted later. My father, and also my Grandfather, who was the 'shot caller' in my family are not muslim and were hostile toward the religion and made my life, and the life of my mother and sister very miserable for a number of years because we were boycotted, and most of the family sided with my Grandfather. It was pretty horrible for a while (trust me on this) and we have partially reconciled now so I didn't include that in the story because I didn't want to exacerbate the delicate situation as it is currently. That is all I will say about that, but there are other things which I have shared privately with some brothers which I haven't shared publically. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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Brother Abu Hadi:

“Whoever among you can afford it, let him get married, for it is more effective in lowering the gaze and guarding chastity. And whoever cannot afford it, then let him fast, for it will be restraint for him

 

thats a prophetic hadith. Prophet said, if a man can afford marriage then let him marry. We should be realistic here. Religion and manners are good but religion should install in a man a sense of responsibility. You cannot expect to be responsible for kids without a source of income.

Sisters can lower their demands but basic requirements should not be ignored. Else , that is called deception. 

Some families might be able to give their sons or even their daughters a financial support. That happens allot. Other families simply cannot do that. Some programs were initiated to help youth get married. My father is organizing one of these programs. Donations are collected through out the year, a counseling is offered, seminars are given yearly on common marriage problem for newly wed (finance, health, fiqh etc). The program also work to solve parental issues, to get financial support from parents who abandoned their children for no reason really. Also, they offer to pay bills for basic needs like the first year rent or the new furniture. Th program also held a yearly wedding festival were the costs of the wedding is shared by all the participants.

One year they offered a match making service, not sure if it worked but i doubt it lol. 

How is blaming the parents or severing ties with them is going to help to solve the problem when they are the source of fund for future plans? <right, right, women and money>

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Really, if I was a girl I would not decide for some guy holding for my hand and losing my family over it and later have the risk that the man finds a better one. There are families who accept multicultural marriage and as a guy I would go there if I insisted on marrying someone from another culture. That's it about marriage, nothing more nothing less.

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On the issue of empathy, and I apologize for the off-topic post, before I experienced poverty I couldn't imagine a woman giving up hijab to get a job.

I've lived a lot of life. When it comes to judging others, individually or categorically, I've learned that it is best to err on the side of generosity and acceptance. None of us have ever been in another person's shoes. We only see things through the lens of our experiences.

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Granted, today, some men are just overgrown boys, and they should approach things like how it is laid out above ^. 

 

It is fine to tell men to become men but is it enough to change the minds of girls' parents if men are actually men? I don't think so. Most often the knee-jerk rejections that we get do not have to do with men not being men, but for other reasons, a few of which have been mentioned in this thread.

 

So there's a man who is a man, financially secured, flaunting his degrees, has no bad track record, is not dependent on mommy and daddy for meals and chai, respectful of the culture of the girls parents, willing to make compromises if there are practical considerations involved, in short, approaching things as they should be approached, the girl is fully on board, but he still gets told by the parents to bug off because ___ (insert parents favourite obsession).

 

Reverse genders, same story, but men are in a stronger position to assert their choice and rebel against their parents, precisely because we are working within patriarchal cultures.

 

 

Yes, I have read your post in full and what you have said is fine, in theory, and I concur with it. That's how men should behave and approach. And no, we're not talking about unrealistic, impulsive, hollywood-type love stories where people change minds in every other scene. All right then...

 

To focus on the emboldened point, what if the spouse is chosen/approved by the parents and the marriage still fails? I don't see children in troubled marriages blaming their parents for choosing the 'wrong person' so why would parents go on about it ad nauseam if their children choose themselves and the marriage doesn't work? Why should the parents hold their noses up and still deny help and support to their battered and beleaguered children?

 

The very fact that parents aren't on-board with the plan often directly or indirectly leads to the very failure of the marriage, in a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. The emotional/psychological toll on a person going against their parents may poison their marriage, when their spouse is not accepted and respected by the parents.

 

It looks to me that gong-like parental outbursts of how they love and care for their children only works when, like Allah, they get total submission from them. Why? And if it is not a sign of a rotten patriarchal culture, what is it? (and by that I am not singling out any particular culture but all Eastern cultures which have this problem today).

 

We see a lot of chatter in Islamic discourse about 'the rights of parents'; how about 'the rights of children' for a change?

I know personally two cases where the choice of parents went all wrong. Parents went on self blaming, in one case a father even lost some of his assets. The daughter was severely injured "psychologically" but her parents are not doing any better.

I know as well of other 2 cases where the sister told her parents that their buts are not convincing, they got married and they are happy. But those men got an OK with a but. A case of a complete NO is a lost case in most time. You should at least get an OK with a but lol. 

You should get realistic, don't expect from parents to give their daughters to the unknown. Sometimes money and character can be your intercessors (providing you are ok for them religiously, that's even not debatable because it is taken as an axiom) but unfamiliarity is a real issue and not some knee jerking reflex. Would you allow your sister to marry a man who is unknown? Now work how an unknown can be turned to known.

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