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Are Most Of Us Involved In Shirk?

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Correct me if I'm wrong, or if I am making the wrong conclusions, but after studying tawheed, it seems to me that most of us (muslims) are committing shirk.

One thing that a lot of muslims do not want to except, is that someone who is a muslim and pronounces the shahada, and prays 5 times a day, and gives zakat, and makes hajj, and fasts in ramadhan, and recites quran can commit shirk through some of his beliefs and practices and be a mushrik(polytheist).

 

"Ibrãhim was neither a Jew nor a Christian but he was a sincere ‘Muslim’ (one who

submits to Allãh), and he was not one of the polytheists.”

(3:67)

The fact that Allah says that Ibraham(a.s.) was a muslim AND not one of the polytheists, proves that someone can worship and serve Allah, but yet be considered a mushrik, for that individual does not worship and serve Allah purely. Although his or her object or goal may be to worship Allah and be a good person, he or she may still commit shirk if it is not done in a way that is pure and proper; and as we know, shirk is the worst of sins. Today, in islam, many are committing shirk, the sunnis commit shirk by saying that the Quran is eternal and created by Allah, if this is so, then it implies that Allah’s speech is a part of Him and not a thing created. This is similar to how the Christians say that Jesus(a.s.) and the Holy Spirit, are not created and are in fact a part of Allah, and thus they(Christians) disbelieve by saying that Allah is a trinity. Furthermore, in islam, we believe that Jesus(a.s.) is the word of Allah(meaning that Allah said “be” and he was) and since the sunnis believe that Allah’s speech is eternal and not created, then they thus(unknowingly) assert that Jesus(a.s.) is a part of Allah just as the Christians do. The salafis have committed shirk by assigning physical characteristics to Allah, and saying that we will be able to see him in paradise, and that Allah sits on a literal throne above the heavens. This is shirk because it constricts him to space, while Allah is the creator of time and space. Many shia have committed shirk also by supplicating to the prophets and imams (pbut) instead of to Allah, the most high and the one possessing all of the power and strength whom the infallibles themselves worship and supplicate to(i.e.  when some shia say “Ya Ali Maddad!” [Oh Ali help me!])

May Allah protect us from falsehood and error, and guide us, and forgive us for our shortcomings and what we do out of ignorance, and accept our intentions over our actions.


the sunnis commit shirk by saying that the Quran is eternal and NOT* created by Allah. sorry for that misleading typo.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, or if I am making the wrong conclusions, but after studying tawheed, it seems to me that most of us (muslims) are committing shirk.

One thing that a lot of muslims do not want to except, is that someone who is a muslim and pronounces the shahada, and prays 5 times a day, and gives zakat, and makes hajj, and fasts in ramadhan, and recites quran can commit shirk through some of his beliefs and practices and be a mushrik(polytheist).

 

"Ibrãhim was neither a Jew nor a Christian but he was a sincere ‘Muslim’ (one who

submits to Allãh), and he was not one of the polytheists.”

(3:67)

The fact that Allah says that Ibraham(a.s.) was a muslim AND not one of the polytheists, proves that someone can worship and serve Allah, but yet be considered a mushrik, for that individual does not worship and serve Allah purely. Although his or her object or goal may be to worship Allah and be a good person, he or she may still commit shirk if it is not done in a way that is pure and proper; and as we know, shirk is the worst of sins. Today, in islam, many are committing shirk, the sunnis commit shirk by saying that the Quran is eternal and created by Allah, if this is so, then it implies that Allah’s speech is a part of Him and not a thing created. This is similar to how the Christians say that Jesus(a.s.) and the Holy Spirit, are not created and are in fact a part of Allah, and thus they(Christians) disbelieve by saying that Allah is a trinity. Furthermore, in islam, we believe that Jesus(a.s.) is the word of Allah(meaning that Allah said “be” and he was) and since the sunnis believe that Allah’s speech is eternal and not created, then they thus(unknowingly) assert that Jesus(a.s.) is a part of Allah just as the Christians do. The salafis have committed shirk by assigning physical characteristics to Allah, and saying that we will be able to see him in paradise, and that Allah sits on a literal throne above the heavens. This is shirk because it constricts him to space, while Allah is the creator of time and space. Many shia have committed shirk also by supplicating to the prophets and imams (pbut) instead of to Allah, the most high and the one possessing all of the power and strength whom the infallibles themselves worship and supplicate to(i.e.  when some shia say “Ya Ali Maddad!” [Oh Ali help me!])

May Allah protect us from falsehood and error, and guide us, and forgive us for our shortcomings and what we do out of ignorance, and accept our intentions over our actions.

 

 

Allah committed shirk in the quran by telling Muhammad A.S that they should have asked Muhammad to ask forgiveness for them, and not directly to Allah:

 

Had they, when they had wronged themselves, come to you and asked Allah's forgiveness and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them, they would certainly have found Allah Most-Propitious, Most-Merciful. (Holy Qur'an 4: 64).

 

Yea prophets are going to hell to. They commit shirk as well:

 

  • When Moses gets help from Aaron not Allah
  • When Yousuf's dad gets help to get his eyes cured by the shirt of Yousef
  • (The brothers of Yusuf) said, “O our father! Ask forgiveness from Allah for our sins. Indeed, we have been sinners.” He said, “I will ask my Lord for forgiveness for you.” Verily, He, and only He, is the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[109]

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Allah committed shirk in the quran by telling Muhammad A.S that they should have asked Muhammad to ask forgiveness for them, and not directly to Allah:

 

Had they, when they had wronged themselves, come to you and asked Allah's forgiveness and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them, they would certainly have found Allah Most-Propitious, Most-Merciful. (Holy Qur'an 4: 64).

 

Yea prophets are going to hell to. They commit shirk as well:

 

  • When Moses gets help from Aaron not Allah
  • When Yousuf's dad gets help to get his eyes cured by the shirt of Yousef
  • (The brothers of Yusuf) said, “O our father! Ask forgiveness from Allah for our sins. Indeed, we have been sinners.” He said, “I will ask my Lord for forgiveness for you.” Verily, He, and only He, is the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[109]

 

I'm not talking about intercession brother. I'm speaking about how some shia call on the prophets and imams directly. WHich is why i gave "Ya Ali Madad" as an example.

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I'm not talking about intercession brother. I'm speaking about how some shia call on the prophets and imams directly. WHich is why i gave "Ya Ali Madad" as an example.

 

brother how is aaron helping musa intercession? Does musa not know any better then to commit shirk and ask help from a being other than Allah?

what about yousef's dad? He asked to get his eyes cured from an useless object ie.yousefs shirt.. how much more shirk can he commit? Are you saying these prophets are ignorant enough to not know what shirk is and what isnt? If asking for help is shirk then you commit shirk for letting your hands type for you, you must ask Allah directly to type for you.

Edited by PureEthics

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brother how is aaron helping musa intercession? Does musa not know any better then to commit shirk and ask help from a being other than Allah?

what about yousef's dad? He asked to get his eyes cured from an useless object ie.yousefs shirt.. how much more shirk can he commit? Are you saying these prophets are ignorant enough to not know what shirk is and what isnt? If asking for help is shirk then you commit shirk for letting your hands type for you, you must ask Allah directly to type for you.

Musa(a.s.) is not committing shirk because his brother is present with him. If we go by the logic that you presented to me, then  when the Christians pray to Jesus(a.s.) that's okay, and when people who pray to jinns and angels that is okay too. it seems to me that it is okay to ask for help from someone who is in our physical world, because whenever Allah helps us from the world of the unseen, that help ALWAYS manifests itself in some form or another in our physical realm. For example, when we ask Allah to save us from a stranded island, he helps us by sending a boat, and we then ask the people on that boat to help us, but we do not supplicate to the people of the boat whom we have not had any from of contact with yet and who we do not even know exist. We do not put our faith in a boat that could possibly be out there, but we put our faith in Allah that he will possibly send a boat that could possibly be out there. Therefore, our relationship with the world of the unseen is one that is designated for Allah and Allah only and it seems improper to put faith and trust in someone or something whom we cannot feel, see, touch, or hear, other than Allah.

Also

 

brother how is aaron helping musa intercession? Does musa not know any better then to commit shirk and ask help from a being other than Allah?

what about yousef's dad? He asked to get his eyes cured from an useless object ie.yousefs shirt.. how much more shirk can he commit? Are you saying these prophets are ignorant enough to not know what shirk is and what isnt? If asking for help is shirk then you commit shirk for letting your hands type for you, you must ask Allah directly to type for you.

Also, you mentioned verses that can only give implications while here are the verses that are explicit.

Surely those whom you call on besides Allah are in a state of subjugation like yourselves; therefore call on them, then let them answer you if you are truthful. And do not call besides Allah on that which can neither benefit you nor harm you, for if you do then surely you will in that case be of the unjust. And if Allah should afflict you with harm, then there is none to remove it but He; and if He intends good to you there is none to repel His grace; He brings it to whom He pleases of His servants; and He is the Forgiving, the Merciful. [10:106-107]

To Him is due the true prayer; and those whom they pray to besides Allah give them no answer, but (they are) like one who stretches forth his two hands towards water that it may reach his mouth, but it will not reach it; and the prayer of the unbelievers is only in error. [13:14]

Say: Who is the Lord of the heavens and the earth? Say: Allah. Say: Do you take then besides Him guardians who do not control any profit or harm for themselves? Say: Are the blind and the seeing alike? Or can the darkness and the light be equal? Or have they set up with Allah associates who have created creation like His, so that what is created became confused to them? Say: Allah is the Creator of all things, and He is the One, the Supreme. [Qur'an 13:16]

That is because when Allah alone was called upon, you disbelieved, and when associates were given to Him, you believed; so judgment belongs to Allah, the High, the Great. He it is Who shows you His signs and sends down for you sustenance from heaven, and none minds but he who turns (to Him) again and again. Therefore call upon Allah, being sincere to Him in obedience, though the unbelievers are averse [40:12-14]

And who is in greater error than he who calls besides Allah upon those that will not answer him till the day of resurrection and they are heedless of their call? And when men are gathered together they shall be their enemies, and shall be deniers of their worshipping (them). [47:5-6]

And that the mosques are Allah's, therefore call not upon any one with Allah:[72:18]

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Musa(a.s.) is not committing shirk because his brother is present with him. If we go by the logic that you presented to me, then  when the Christians pray to Jesus(a.s.) that's okay, and when people who pray to jinns and angels that is okay too. it seems to me that it is okay to ask for help from someone who is in our physical world, because whenever Allah helps us from the world of the unseen, that help ALWAYS manifests itself in some form or another in our physical realm. For example, when we ask Allah to save us from a stranded island, he helps us by sending a boat, and we then ask the people on that boat to help us, but we do not supplicate to the people of the boat whom we have not had any from of contact with yet and who we do not even know exist. We do not put our faith in a boat that could possibly be out there, but we put our faith in Allah that he will possibly send a boat that could possibly be out there. Therefore, our relationship with the world of the unseen is one that is designated for Allah and Allah only and it seems improper to put faith and trust in someone or something whom we cannot feel, see, touch, or hear, other than Allah.

 

Then what about Prophet Yousuf's dad? He got his eyes cured from an object not to mention he called on Yousuf for a cure. How is that not shirk?

 

First of all, Christians WORSHIP jesus A.S. No muslim worships a being other than Allah. Second, asking for help doesnt imply worship. Third, we believe the imams and prophets to be dependent to Allah.  Fourth: There are different meanings for "praying":

 

In answer to this objection it should be said that every supplication is not a form of worship or even the spirit of worship, since the root of du'a' (supplication) is da'wat, a word which along with its derivatives occurs frequently in the Holy Qur'an. For instance,

“let us call (nad'u) our sons (3:61)”

and

Make you not the addressing (du'a') of the Prophet among you like your addressing one another” (24:63)

As could be discerned, in most of the 'Ayas the word du'a' means to call or address. Accordingly neither every nida' (call) is du'a' nor every du'a' is 'ibadat (worship). In other words du'a' (supplication) becomes 'ibadat when the rules of worship such as servitude and submissiveness to Allah are observed with acknowledgement of the over lordship of the Almighty Creator. What connection does this have with tawassul and tabarruk to the Prophet (saws) and the Infallible Imams (as) and requesting them for help and succour?

Thus, the narration al-du'a' huwa al-'ibadah (supplication is among the acts of worship), does not necessarily mean that every supplication is a form of worship.25

 

 

why do you think we specifically use the representatives of Allah and none other? Because they are the means to Allah.

 

“O you who believe! Fear Allah and seek an approach unto Him...” (5:35)

 

 Bring me one verse that shows asking for help is defined by life or death. Also who says the prophets and imams are dead? If mere martyrs are alive, you think those who sacrificed their entire lives to get the message of Islam across mankind isnt?

 

And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead, nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive. (Baqarah 2:154)”

 

“And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead, nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord. (Aal-Imran 3:169)”

 

(wasalam)

 

As I said before, if calling on anyone other than Allah is shirk then you commit shirk period. There is no way around not calling on anyone besides Allah. If you want to interpret the verse, well then clearly 10:106 is in regards to meccans taking idols as GODS.

 

I already discussed 13:14. No muslim worships anyone besides Allah.

 

13:16 is a really nice verse I love it! To bad Allah according to you commited shirk:

5:55 Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).

 

47:5 is clearly referring to the meccans who call (worship) idols as you can see Allah explicitly states the meccans were worshiping the idols.

And who is in greater error than he who calls besides Allah upon those that will not answer him till the day of resurrection and they are heedless of their call? And when men are gathered together they shall be their enemies, and shall be deniers of their worshipping (them). [47:5-6]

 

72:18 already answered above

 

(wasalam)

 

Sorry if my posts seem hella sloppy. I have discussed this millions on times on here and yet every single time they failed to equate tawasul with shirk.

 

If you wanna know my arguments they are from here:

 

http://www.al-islam.org/message-thaqalayn/vol5-n4-2000/tawassul-seeking-way-unto-Allah-dr-abd-al-karim-shirazi

http://www.al-islam.org/wahhabism-ayatullah-jafar-subhani/seeking-benediction-and-cure-signs-and-traces-awliya

http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/tawassul-resorting-intermediary

Which verse in the Holy Quran is a confirmation of tawassul (seeking means) and how is justified?

what intercession (Shafa’ah) is

Edited by PureEthics

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Then what about Prophet Yousuf's dad? He got his eyes cured from an object not to mention he called on Yousuf for a cure. How is that not shirk?

 

(salam)

 

Who was Prophet Yousuf's (as) dad? He was also a Prophet, Prophet Yaqub (as). 

 

Why didn't He use his own clothes to cure his eyes? Since He himself was also a Prophet?

 

The reason is because the cure of his Eyes was a miracle of Allah just like the staff of Musa (as) was a miracle. Only Musa (as) could use the staff, similarly, only Prophet Yaqub (as) could be cured with the clothes of Yousuf (as) not everyone. 

 

Also, what is your evidence that He (as) called on Yousuf (as) for help?

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Then what about Prophet Yousuf's dad? He got his eyes cured from an object not to mention he called on Yousuf for a cure. How is that not shirk?

 

First of all, Christians WORSHIP jesus A.S. No muslim worships a being other than Allah. Second, asking for help doesnt imply worship. Third, we believe the imams and prophets to be dependent to Allah.  Fourth: There are different meanings for "praying":

 

In answer to this objection it should be said that every supplication is not a form of worship or even the spirit of worship, since the root of du'a' (supplication) is da'wat, a word which along with its derivatives occurs frequently in the Holy Qur'an. For instance,

“let us call (nad'u) our sons (3:61)”

and

Make you not the addressing (du'a') of the Prophet among you like your addressing one another” (24:63)

As could be discerned, in most of the 'Ayas the word du'a' means to call or address. Accordingly neither every nida' (call) is du'a' nor every du'a' is 'ibadat (worship). In other words du'a' (supplication) becomes 'ibadat when the rules of worship such as servitude and submissiveness to Allah are observed with acknowledgement of the over lordship of the Almighty Creator. What connection does this have with tawassul and tabarruk to the Prophet (saws) and the Infallible Imams (as) and requesting them for help and succour?

Thus, the narration al-du'a' huwa al-'ibadah (supplication is among the acts of worship), does not necessarily mean that every supplication is a form of worship.25

 

 

why do you think we specifically use the representatives of Allah and none other? Because they are the means to Allah.

 

“O you who believe! Fear Allah and seek an approach unto Him...” (5:35)

 

 Bring me one verse that shows asking for help is defined by life or death. Also who says the prophets and imams are dead? If mere martyrs are alive, you think those who sacrificed their entire lives to get the message of Islam across mankind isnt?

 

And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead, nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive. (Baqarah 2:154)”

 

“And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead, nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord. (Aal-Imran 3:169)”

 

(wasalam)

 

As I said before, if calling on anyone other than Allah is shirk then you commit shirk period. There is no way around not calling on anyone besides Allah. If you want to interpret the verse, well then clearly 10:106 is in regards to meccans taking idols as GODS.

 

I already discussed 13:14. No muslim worships anyone besides Allah.

 

13:16 is a really nice verse I love it! To bad Allah according to you commited shirk:

5:55 Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).

 

47:5 is clearly referring to the meccans who call (worship) idols as you can see Allah explicitly states the meccans were worshiping the idols.

And who is in greater error than he who calls besides Allah upon those that will not answer him till the day of resurrection and they are heedless of their call? And when men are gathered together they shall be their enemies, and shall be deniers of their worshipping (them). [47:5-6]

 

72:18 already answered above

 

(wasalam)

 

Sorry if my posts seem hella sloppy. I have discussed this millions on times on here and yet every single time they failed to equate tawasul with shirk.

 

If you wanna know my arguments they are from here:

 

http://www.al-islam.org/message-thaqalayn/vol5-n4-2000/tawassul-seeking-way-unto-Allah-dr-abd-al-karim-shirazi

http://www.al-islam.org/wahhabism-ayatullah-jafar-subhani/seeking-benediction-and-cure-signs-and-traces-awliya

http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/tawassul-resorting-intermediary

Whatever the case may be, the evidences you provided can only give IMPLICATIONS, while the verses I provided were all explicit. Also, you did not provide any authentic hadiths showing that the Imams(pbut) encouraged or supported it, which leads me to believe that there is little to no proof that they did. Therefore, this is a grey area, a grey area involving the worst of sins, so I think I will continue to refrain from asking prophets and imams for help, until indisputable logic and evidence comes to me proving otherwise. Thanks for your input though ! as well as providing me with the sources so that I can begin looking into this further. Jazakallah Khair akhi!

Edited by Akim

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Then what about Prophet Yousuf's dad? He got his eyes cured from an object not to mention he called on Yousuf for a cure. How is that not shirk?

 

First of all, Christians WORSHIP jesus A.S. No muslim worships a being other than Allah. Second, asking for help doesnt imply worship. Third, we believe the imams and prophets to be dependent to Allah.  Fourth: There are different meanings for "praying":

 

In answer to this objection it should be said that every supplication is not a form of worship or even the spirit of worship, since the root of du'a' (supplication) is da'wat, a word which along with its derivatives occurs frequently in the Holy Qur'an. For instance,

“let us call (nad'u) our sons (3:61)”

and

Make you not the addressing (du'a') of the Prophet among you like your addressing one another” (24:63)

As could be discerned, in most of the 'Ayas the word du'a' means to call or address. Accordingly neither every nida' (call) is du'a' nor every du'a' is 'ibadat (worship). In other words du'a' (supplication) becomes 'ibadat when the rules of worship such as servitude and submissiveness to Allah are observed with acknowledgement of the over lordship of the Almighty Creator. What connection does this have with tawassul and tabarruk to the Prophet (saws) and the Infallible Imams (as) and requesting them for help and succour?

Thus, the narration al-du'a' huwa al-'ibadah (supplication is among the acts of worship), does not necessarily mean that every supplication is a form of worship.25

 

 

why do you think we specifically use the representatives of Allah and none other? Because they are the means to Allah.

 

“O you who believe! Fear Allah and seek an approach unto Him...” (5:35)

 

 Bring me one verse that shows asking for help is defined by life or death. Also who says the prophets and imams are dead? If mere martyrs are alive, you think those who sacrificed their entire lives to get the message of Islam across mankind isnt?

 

And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead, nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive. (Baqarah 2:154)”

 

“And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead, nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord. (Aal-Imran 3:169)”

 

(wasalam)

 

As I said before, if calling on anyone other than Allah is shirk then you commit shirk period. There is no way around not calling on anyone besides Allah. If you want to interpret the verse, well then clearly 10:106 is in regards to meccans taking idols as GODS.

 

I already discussed 13:14. No muslim worships anyone besides Allah.

 

13:16 is a really nice verse I love it! To bad Allah according to you commited shirk:

5:55 Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).

 

47:5 is clearly referring to the meccans who call (worship) idols as you can see Allah explicitly states the meccans were worshiping the idols.

And who is in greater error than he who calls besides Allah upon those that will not answer him till the day of resurrection and they are heedless of their call? And when men are gathered together they shall be their enemies, and shall be deniers of their worshipping (them). [47:5-6]

 

72:18 already answered above

 

(wasalam)

 

Sorry if my posts seem hella sloppy. I have discussed this millions on times on here and yet every single time they failed to equate tawasul with shirk.

 

If you wanna know my arguments they are from here:

 

http://www.al-islam.org/message-thaqalayn/vol5-n4-2000/tawassul-seeking-way-unto-Allah-dr-abd-al-karim-shirazi

http://www.al-islam.org/wahhabism-ayatullah-jafar-subhani/seeking-benediction-and-cure-signs-and-traces-awliya

http://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia-ahlul-bayt-dilp-team/tawassul-resorting-intermediary

Which verse in the Holy Quran is a confirmation of tawassul (seeking means) and how is justified?

what intercession (Shafa’ah) is

My simple reply comes from a verse:

''Then do those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants instead of Me as protectors? Indeed, We have prepared Hell for the disbelievers as a lodging.'' 18:102

 

Please explain this. Allah is not speaking of those who worship other than him, he is speaking of those who take his servants(prophets, messengers, imams, Angels) as protectors other than him. According to the verse, this is disbelief, as well as shirk.

 

Shafa'a is not the same as this. Shafa'a means that the best of Allah's creation could save you from the hell fire on the day of judgement. It doesn't mean that they can help you with your problems instead of God. They can not do anything for you in this world, but they can provide shafa'a for you in the hereafter, as we read in Dua'a tawassul.

 

Only God can help you with things in the world: ''It is you(only) whom we worship, and you(only) whom we ask for help''. Surah Fatiha. This doesn't mean that you can't ask someone to help you lift something, or asking a doctor to cure you. this is not the same idea. Saying Ya Ali Madad is haram because you are calling him to help you, it's like as if Allah is weak and can't see and hear you. Astaghfirulla. Allah says: “And when My servants ask you (O Muhammad) about Me, then surely I am near. I answer the prayers of the suppliants when they beseech Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright.” [sūrah al-Baqarah: 186]

 

 

Please use your brain that Allah has given you, and really think about this. If there's anything I learned from the salafists, it's this: DO NOT COMMIT SHIRK IN ANY POSSIBLE WAY, BECAUSE IT IS THE WORST SIN, AND THE ONLY SIN Allah WILL NOT FORGIVE. 

Edited by robbenmessi1010

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9 – And from Muhammad b. al-Hasan from as-Saffar from al-Hasan b. Musa the wood merchant from Yazid b. Ishaq Sha`ar from `Abbas b. Yazid from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.

He said: I said to him: Verily these `awamm claim that shirk is more obscure than the creeping of the ant in a dark night upon the black haircloth. So he said: The servant is not a mushrik until he prays to other than Allah, or slaughters (an animal) for other than Allah, or supplicates to other than Allah `azza wa jalla.

Nahjul Balagha, Letter 31

Develop the habit of patience against sufferings, calamities and adversities. This virtue of patience is one of the highest values of morality and nobility of character and it is the best habit which one can develop. Trust in Allah and let your mind seek His protection in every calamity and suffering because you will thus entrust yourself and your affairs to the Best Trustee and to the Mightiest Guardian. Do not seek help or protection from anybody but Allah. Reserve your prayers, your requests, your solicitations, your supplications, and your entreaties to Him and Him alone because to grant, to give, to confer and to bestow, as well as to withhold, to deprive, to refuse, and to debar, lies only in His Power. Ask as much of His Blessings and seek as much of His Guidance as you can.[...]Realize this truth, my son, that the Lord who owns and holds the treasures of Paradise and the earth has given you permission to ask and beg for them and He has promised to grant your prayers. He has told you to pray for His Favours that they may be granted to you and to ask for His Blessings that they may be bestowed upon you. He has not appointed guards to prevent your prayers reaching Him. Nor is there any need for anybody to intercede before Him on your behalf.If you go back upon your promises, if your break your vows, or start doing things that you have repented of, He will not immediately punish you nor does He refuse His Blessings in haste and if you repent once again He neither taunts you nor betrays you though you may fully deserve both, but He accepts your penitence and pardons you. He never grudges His Forgiveness nor refuses His Mercy, on the contrary He has decreed repentance as a virtue and pious deed. The Merciful Lord has ordered that every evil deed of yours will be counted as one and a good deed and pious action will be rewarded tenfold. He has left the door of repentance open. He hears you whenever you call Him. He accepts your prayer whenever you pray to Him. Invoke Him to grant you your heart's desire, lay before Him the secrets of your heart, tell Him about all the calamities that have befallen you and misfortunes which face you, and beseech His help to overcome them. You may invoke His Help and Support in difficulties and distresses. You may implore Him to grant you long life and sound health, you may pray to Him for prosperity and you may request Him for such favours and grants that none but He can bestow and award.Think over it that by simply granting you the privilege of praying for His Favours and Mercies, He has handed over the keys of His treasures to you. Whenever you are in need you should pray and He will confer His Bounties and Blessings. But sometimes you will find that your requests are not immediately granted, then you need not be disappointed because the grant of prayers often rests with the true purpose and intention of the implorer. Sometimes the prayers are delayed because the Merciful Lord wants you to receive further rewards for patiently bearing calamities and sufferings and still believing sincerely in His Help. Thus you may be awarded better favours than you requested for.Sometimes your prayers are turned down, and this is also in your interest; because you often, unknowingly, ask for things that are really harmful to you. If your requests are granted they will do you more harm than good and many of your requests may be such that if they are granted they will result in your eternal damnation. Thus the refusal to accede to your solicitations is a blessing in disguise to you. But very often your requests, if they are not really harmful to you in this life or in the Hereafter, may be delayed but they are granted in quantities much more than you had asked for, bringing in more blessings in their wake than you could ever imagine. So you should be very careful in asking Allah for His Favour. Only pray for such things as are really beneficial to you, and are lasting and in the long run do not end in harm. Remember, my dear son, that wealth and power (if you pray for them) are such things that they will not always be with you and may bring harm to you in the life in the Hereafter.

Edited by Nima

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Many use this verse to justify supplicates to other than Allah (like ya ali madad. Oh Ali help)

[5:35] O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and seek means of nearness to Him and strive hard in His way that you may be successful.

Lets see...

Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 109

The best means by which seekers of nearness to Allah, the Glorified, the Exalted, seek nearness, is the belief in Him and His Prophet, fighting in His cause, for it is the high pinnacle of Islam, and (to believe) in the kalimatu'l-'ikhlas (the expression of Divine purification) for it is just nature and the establishment of prayer for it is (the basis of) community, payment of zakat (Islamic tax) for it is a compulsory obligation, fasting for the month of Ramadan for it is the shield against chastisement, the performance of hajj of the House of Allah (i. e . Ka`bah) and its `umrah (other than annual visit) for these two acts banish poverty and wash away sins, regard for kinship for it increases wealth and length of life, to giving alms secretly for it covers shortcomings, giving alms openly for it protects against a bad death and extending benefits (to people) for it saves from positions of disgrace.

Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 198

Pledge yourself with prayer and remain steady on it; offer prayer as much as possible and seek nearness (of Allah) through it, because it is, (imposed) upon the believers as Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã timed ordinance (Qur'an 4:103). Have you not heard the reply of the people of Hell when they were asked: What hath brought you into the hell? They shall say: We were not of those who offered the regular prayers (to Allah)! (Qur'an, 74:42-43). Certainly, prayer drops out sins like the dropping of leaves (of trees), and removes them as ropes are removed from the necks of cattle. The Messenger of Allah - the peace and blessing of Allah he upon him and his descendants - likened it to a hot bath situated at the door of a person who bathes in it five times a day. Will then any dirt remain on him?

Nahjul Balagha, Saying 135

Daily prayers are the best medium through which one can Seek the nearness to Allah. Hajj is Jihad (Holy War) for every weak person. For everything that you own there is Zakat, and Zakat of your body is fasting. The Jihad of a woman is to afford pleasant company to her husband.

Edited by Nima

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Many use this verse to justify supplicates to other than Allah

That is a pure shirk. We have many threads that talks about this issue in great detail. In Shi'a belief we only supplicate to Allah[swt]. Ya Ali Madad, is shirk, if the definition is asking Ali [as] directly.

About Nahjul Balagha sermos you quoted, they are amazing and truth.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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I'm not talking about intercession brother. I'm speaking about how some shia call on the prophets and imams directly. WHich is why i gave "Ya Ali Madad" as an example.

 

Ya Ali Madad means 'Oh Ali help me' 

 

It is asking him for help, just like if you needed to lift a heavy object, you would ask someone to help you. 

You would not start lifting one side, and ask Allah(s.w.a) to pick up the other side, would you ? 

 

When you need to lift something heavy, you seek out a strong man, and when you need to get help from Allah(s.w.a)

you seek out someone whom Allah(s.w.a) loves, so their asking will have more weight with Allah(s.w.a) than yours. 

 

Allah(s.w.a) is powerful over all things and nothing happens without his will, but He(s.w.a) want us to use the means

that he has created in order to accomplish tasks. It says in the Quran 'seek a wasilat (means of approach)', 'ask those who are firmly rooted in knowledge', etc. 

 

 

'Ya Ali Madad' is not shirk, unless the person believes that Ali(a.s) has a power that is independant of the power of Allah(s.w.a) or that Ali(a.s) can help someone without the permission of Allah(s.w.a) and I have never heard in my life a shia person state this or even imply this. 

 

As a general rule, as muslims, if we think someone said something that sounds like shirk, we should ask them what they mean before we accuse them of shirk, because this is a very serious charge and a very grave thing to accuse someone of. 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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'Ya Ali Madad' is not shirk, unless the person believes that Ali(a.s) has a power that is independant of the power of Allah(s.w.a) or that Ali(a.s) can help someone without the permission of Allah(s.w.a) and I have never heard in my life a shia person state this or even imply this.

According to what I've found, most shias I know think it is from Imam Ali's power that he can help us. No regular shia, when he says ''Ya Ali'', is thinking that he is interceding, especially children and teenagers. They think Ali has all the power to help you, which is obviously in conflict to what the quran says. It's important for us to remember that calling upon anyone else but Allah is shirk. PERIOD. No one can change this fact. 

 

I hope you didn't skip the posts done by Nima about what Imam Ali himself says about this from Nahjul Balagha. You either obey imam ali, or you disobey him by calling him to help you, when he's not even next to you to help you. Rather, he is alive with Allah. Pay attention. 

 

Salam.

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(salam)

 

Who was Prophet Yousuf's (as) dad? He was also a Prophet, Prophet Yaqub (as). 

 

Why didn't He use his own clothes to cure his eyes? Since He himself was also a Prophet?

 

The reason is because the cure of his Eyes was a miracle of Allah just like the staff of Musa (as) was a miracle. Only Musa (as) could use the staff, similarly, only Prophet Yaqub (as) could be cured with the clothes of Yousuf (as) not everyone. 

 

Also, what is your evidence that He (as) called on Yousuf (as) for help?

 

Yea, thats my point his father was also a prophet, would he not know any better than to see help through an object? Look at these verses, no where does it state it was a miracle. In fact no where does it show Prophet Yousuf A.S saying oh God please give me the power to miracle to cure my fathers eyesight. All he does is say here take my shirt it will cure him. Now, please tell me how this isnt shirk. Let me restate your arguments, calling on Ali A.S is shirk, yet a prophet of God using a shirt on his eyes to get cured isnt? I mean we say oh Ali help, but for a prophet to literally get help from someone other than Allah is clearly shirk.

 

“And he turned away from them, and said, O my sorrow for Yusuf! And his eyes became white on account of the grief, and he was a repressor (of grief).” (12:84)

Take this my shirt and cast it on my father’s face, he will (again) be able to see, and come to me with all your families.

And when the caravan had (hardly) departed (for Ya‘qub’s home) (that) their father (Ya‘qub) said. Most surely I perceive the odor of Yusuf. Unless you pronounce me to be weak in judgment.” (12:89-94)

 

 

On this verse:

[shakir 18:102] What! do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants to be guardians besides Me? Surely We have prepared hell for the entertainment of the unbelievers.

[shakir 18:105] These are they who disbelieve in the communications of their Lord and His meeting, so their deeds become null, and therefore We will not set up a balance for them on the day of resurrection.

[shakir 18:106] Thus it is that their recompense is hell, because they disbelieved and held My communications and My messengers in mockery.

  • First of all, there is a clear indication that it is towards the disbelievers and it is literally referring to the christians whom take Jesus A.S as their God.
  • Second, clearly the verses that follow it have a deeper implication.
  • Third, did you forget about this verse? Clearly, guardian is used in different implications. The first being literal worship while the second being your leader, your protector, your role-model, your means. Else you would have to conclude one Allah committed a contradiction and two He just committed shirk.
  • 5:55 Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).

 

 

 

This is directed towards everyone:

 

Honestly all your arguments are invalid. You say calling on someone other than Allah is shirk, yet what is "calling". How is it defined. If you use the verses above, every instance of the word call us equated back to worship and clearly no muslim worships non other than Allah. If you mean calling as literally to call upon someone or something,well then that must imply that just by calling your mom or dad is also shirk. If you are talking about calling for help, if you say but its okay to call on alive people not dead. Well I tell you, once again, where does it say you cant ask for help from a dead person? Where does it state prophets and imams are dead? Or that they cannot hear us? When there is clear evidence in the quran for the opposite. I have proven otherwise. If your other argument is the prophets and imams didnt do it, well.. why would they when they are the MEANS? Even though clearly prophet yaqob and yousuf is a clear example for this. Also, since when must an action be in hadith for it to be valid? If thats the case then dont use computers since it isnt also in our hadith. Another point you all bring up is we are only suppose to "pray" to Allah. Well, there is a clear difference between praying as in worship and praying as an request. If everything we do is to be requested by Allah only, well once again you all have committed shirk and this argument is preposterous.

 

Nima brought the sermon of Ali A.S as an argument against tawasul, but he clearly missed an important part of that sermon:

 

SubhanAllah Imam Ali says, "I beseech Him to take you under His protection in both the worlds."

Isnt that a form of Tawassul right there? Isnt tawassul asking the Imams or Prophets to beseech (beg - implore - entreat - supplicate - pray - plead) to Him on our behalf?

 

Its honestly ironic that you people try and take verses or hadith on worshiping and try and say we shias who ask help from our imams or prophets imply we worship them. That is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard. We shias uses the imams and prophets as a means because what better way of going towards Allah then the ones whom He loves? You see im a sinful being, I am ashamed to stand before Allah, therefore I beseech the imams and prophets to help give me face in front of Allah so that when He knows I love and follow the ones whom he has chosen, He may forgive me and hear my call. Its like why would you go to a job interview without a recommendation from a higher up if its possible? Of course taking the recommendation is like using tawassul. In fact the prophets and imams are bound by Allah's will, and are dependent on Him. Therefore, no matter how you want to equate tawassul with shirk you cannot because it clearly isnt. To say otherwise would be accusing a believer of shirk and you will receive a sin twice as great as shirk!

 

 

(wasalam)

Edited by PureEthics

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According to what I've found, most shias I know think it is from Imam Ali's power that he can help us. No regular shia, when he says ''Ya Ali'', is thinking that he is interceding, especially children and teenagers. They think Ali has all the power to help you, which is obviously in conflict to what the quran says.

Alekum Salam, 

 

Did you create a device that can read someone's thoughts ? 

I would really like to see it. There's alot of money to be made. 

 

And if they are thinking that 'Ali has all the power to help you', independant of Allah(s.w.a). then they are Ghulat(extremist non muslims)  and not Shia. 

 

If you look in any Islamic school cirriculum, (I am familiar with cirriculum in the U.S), whether Sunni or Shia, the first topic that begins in Kindergarten being taught is Tauhid, and you can look in Sunni or Shia text books and this topic is the same. Walk into any school that is run by Shia and ask to see the lessons on Tauhid, and you will see this yourself. 

So im not sure where you think they get this idea from ? 

Edited by Abu Hadi

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Its honestly ironic that you people try and take verses or hadith on worshiping and try and say we shias who ask help from our imams or prophets imply we worship them. That is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard. We shias uses the imams and prophets as a means because what better way of going towards Allah then the ones whom He loves? You see im a sinful being, I am ashamed to stand before Allah, therefore I beseech the imams and prophets to help give me face in front of Allah so that when He knows I love and follow the ones whom he has chosen, He may forgive me and hear my call. Its like why would you go to a job interview without a recommendation from a higher up if its possible? Of course taking the recommendation is like using tawassul. In fact the prophets and imams are bound by Allah's will, and are dependent on Him. Therefore, no matter how you want to equate tawassul with shirk you cannot because it clearly isnt. To say otherwise would be accusing a believer of shirk and you will receive a sin twice as great as shirk!

 

 

(wasalam)

OK if that's the case, then explain this verse: 

Then do those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants instead of Me as protectors? Indeed, We have prepared Hell for the disbelievers as a lodging. 18:102

 

Note that this verse is not speaking of worshiping his servants, it is about those who CALL UPON his SERVANTS(prophets, imams...etc.) to help and protect him  instead of calling upon Allah. 

Alekum Salam, 

 

Did you create a device that can read someone's thoughts ? 

I would really like to see it. There's alot of money to be made. 

 

And if they are thinking that 'Ali has all the power to help you', independant of Allah(s.w.a). then they are Ghulat(extremist non muslims)  and not Shia. 

Haha, I see what you did there. That was a nice one. 

 

Many of my friends think this. One kid I know says ''Ya Ali'' whenever he sits down and stands up. That's wrong, correct? Or do you also consider that fine and only a form of tawassul? 

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Salam. Not most of us.. Not sunnis, not shiites, not sufis.. None of these Muslims are involved in polytheism.. For neither saying Ya Muhammad, Ya Ali, etc, nor belief in the fact that Quran is not a creation, is against monotheism.. Rather, the opposite can be said.. For waseelah is a part of and requirement of monotheistic belief, just like belief in the eternity of the speech of God.. ma salam

Edited by HamzaTR

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OK if that's the case, then explain this verse: 

Then do those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants instead of Me as protectors? Indeed, We have prepared Hell for the disbelievers as a lodging. 18:102

 

Note that this verse is not speaking of worshiping his servants, it is about those who CALL UPON his SERVANTS(prophets, imams...etc.) to help and protect him  instead of calling upon Allah.

 

Already examined it in my post above.

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Already examined it in my post above.

I apologize, didn't see that. However, you still didn't explain it properly. Allah is sending this to the christians, however shouldn't we also be in terms with what it says? It is speaking clearly about taking his servants as protectors, not Gods. 

Also, the word ''communications'' you mentioned, is only referring to God communicating to us through his prophets that he sent to mankind. The disbelievers are those who denied these messengers and their call. No more, no less.

 

Also, verse 5:55 that you have mentioned so many times already does not mean the word ''protector''. A better translation would be ''Master''. This is referring to Imam Ali obviously, and just as the prophet Muhammad(SAW) said: Am I not ''Awla'' than the believers over themselves?   Thus, Wali in this verse is referring to being in charge, or master. Not someone who can help you with everyday actions, and not someone to call upon other than God for help. The verses are clear in the Quran.  

 

Shirk is the worst of sins, so do everything possible to stay away from it. Please everyone, it's for your own sake. 

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I apologize, didn't see that. However, you still didn't explain it properly. Allah is sending this to the christians, however shouldn't we also be in terms with what it says? It is speaking clearly about taking his servants as protectors, not Gods. 

Also, the word ''communications'' you mentioned, is only referring to God communicating to us through his prophets that he sent to mankind. The disbelievers are those who denied these messengers and their call. No more, no less.

 

Also, verse 5:55 that you have mentioned so many times already does not mean the word ''protector''. A better translation would be ''Master''. This is referring to Imam Ali obviously, and just as the prophet Muhammad(SAW) said: Am I not ''Awla'' than the believers over themselves?   Thus, Wali in this verse is referring to being in charge, or master. Not someone who can help you with everyday actions, and not someone to call upon other than God for help. The verses are clear in the Quran.  

 

Shirk is the worst of sins, so do everything possible to stay away from it. Please everyone, it's for your own sake. 

 

Brother with all due respect im not going to repeat myself. You havnt addressed any of the points I made. All you did was repeat the verses I mentioned, and you keep saying its shirk its shirk. Saying its shirk doesnt make it shirk no matter how many times you repeat yourself. You mentioned we cannot take His servants as protectors. If that is the case then clearly everyone has and will commit shirk, as we all protect and will protect our loved ones. We are their guardians and our parents are ours. Our family and friends are their to "help" us. Also you are clearly disregarding the verse 5:55 I presented.  The presupposition to verse 18:102 is that it is addressed to the disbelievers, thus you cannot use that verse against Muslims. The fact that the verse was sent down for Christians taking the prophet as God makes it insignificant to this topic. As none of the negative characteristics are equal to us Shias.

 

Second, im sorry to say but which position are you in to say which translation is better? How is that even an argument? Can you not read the verses? The fact that the exact words used in both sentences are from the same roots [Protector,Guardian,Allie,Master] and have the same meanings proves my point even further, seen here:

 

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=wly#%285:55:2%29

 

*And This is a website that uses Sahih International of all translations so you know for sure its anti shia "translation"

 

Here is another example:

Sahih International: But why should Allah not punish them while they obstruct [people] from al-Masjid al- îaram and they were not [fit to be] its guardians? Its [true] guardians are not but the righteous, but most of them do not know.8:34

 

 

 

This will be my last post to if you repeat yourself once again. Im not going to waste my time.

 

(wasalam)

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I see there is much disagreement on this post as to whether or not shia commit shirk by supplicating to imams directly. Keep in mind that I am a shia and have switched over from sunnism, but that is a practice that I cannot accept. No on arguing for it has given proof from the words of the prophet(s.a.w.w.) or the holy imams(pbut) or even the earliest shi'i scholars(may Allah be please with their efforts)[not that the scholars' opinions matter if they contradict Quran or the sunnat]. You all have only given verses from the Quran that can only imply that that practice is encouraged, while there are 23835638 verses(exaggerating the number obviously but there are many) that explicitly say that praying or supplicating to anyone besides Allah swt is not allowed. Also, may I remind you all a few things, in the Quran, Allah warns about reliance on supposition instead of knowledge and certainty(17:36) and (6:116). (53:23) and traditionalism and looking into the past(2:170). I understand that the muslims who do this are doing so with the knowledge that these people whom they are supplicating to, only have any power or ability that is given to them from Allah. However, even if I am wrong and it is not shirk, it seems like the front door to shirk. SO for now on, I advice you all with the greatest of love and concern, that if you feel like you want help from the prophets and imams in order to have your prayers answered, be sure to mention Allah. For instance, say, "Oh Allah, I turn towards you through the intercession of Imam ALi(a.s.), asking for your help" or something of that sort. Even that seems a tad bit iffy to me but it is supremely better and more pure than simply saying things like "Oh Ali Help me" while completely neglecting to mention Allah.

 

Also, I noticed that everyone is focusing on the part of this topic that mentions supplicating to prophets and imams but no one has even touched upon the beliefs of mainstream sunnis and salafis that seem to be forms of shirk. What do you all think of that analysis?

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