I Am An Atheist. Who Wants A Debate?

[goomba]

I think I can debunk all arguments in favour of islam being true.

Who wants to prove me wrong

[Ratohnhaketon]

Welcome to the forum,

That's quite a large claim for a human being to make, the thread would likely proceed smoother if you brought up specific problems you have.

[eThErEaL]

I think I can debunk all arguments in favour of islam being true.

Who wants to prove me wrong

Looks like you don't have much to do in life.

[notme]

I think I can debunk all arguments in favour of islam being true.

Who wants to prove me wrong

Ok.

Pick a point to start.

[dreamchaser_97]

Hello there :)

I noticed that you had said that you "think" you can debunk all arguments concerning Islam being true. But I have also noticed, that you said you were an atheist. So I was wondering, why debunk all arguments concerning Islam and not any other religions? I am a Christian and have been learning about Islam, although I don't know much. But I would happily like to discuss with you. Perhaps a good starting point would be to discuss in a belief in a God?

 

I do not wish to argue on any terms. I just simply want to listen to what exactly you believe; and then in turn, share the reason why I believe the way I do.

 

Hope I didn't take up too much of your time,

 

P.S. Not many are going to want to "debate" with someone, because no knowledge or understanding will be gained in that way. So in knowing this, please don't waste my time if you plan on "ignoring" my comments I make either way :) ... thanks for reading

Edited March 6, 2014 by repenter

[Al-Hassan]

I think I can debunk all arguments in favour of islam being true.

Who wants to prove me wrong

How can you be certain that you are correct? With this type of mentality driven by arrogance and pride, we aren't going to really get any where. It really depends on your intentions. Are you here to ridicule the beliefs of Theism or are you here to sincerely learn?  

Edited March 5, 2014 by Al-Najashi

[Sumerian]

Cosmological Arguement.

[goomba]

"why debunk arguments for islam and not any other religions?"

 

ill debunk whatever anyone has, for any religion.

I am more interested in islam because Muslims are more likely to claim that their religion is objectively provable.

 

 

[goomba]

"how can you be certain you are correct? With this type of mentality drive by arrogance and pride we aren't going to really get anywhere."

 

If you can present an argument that I cannot debunk, then I can be certain I was incorrect. It is those who never test their ideas who cannot be (justifiably) certain of anything. The benefits of a dialectic and critical examination of arguments is obvious to me. If you are of the opinion that more can be learned from speaking to people who already agree with you, I'm not going to try convince you otherwise.

 

 

 

 

[Khadim uz Zahra]

Cosmological Arguement.

 

Even I, being a Muslim, don't think that the Design/Cosmological Argument can sufficiently prove a God, certainly not the way we believe in Him in Islam. At most, it can be used to debunk the "primoridial soup" theory, though I suppose that it is at least a step, and an important one at that.

[robbenmessi1010]

I'm waiting for this to start......

[Ethics]

How about you start. Prove to us there isn't a God.

[Wisdom Lion]

Pick any idea in Islam that you think is illogical

[goomba]

• I don't think the concept of a linguistic miracle makes any sense
• I don't think there is a single example of scientific foreknowledge in the quran
• I don't think the kalam cosmological argument gets you further than deism, and I don't think it even gets you there.
• I don't think the 'fine tuning argument' has any legs.
• I don't think any transcendental or presuppositional argument gets off the ground.

This list could be much longer, but these are the main arguments I encounter.

[Abu Nur]

 

 

I am more interested in islam because Muslims are more likely to claim that their religion is objectively provable

Objectively provable? If it was, then why we believe?

[baqar]

OK  Goomba

 

I believe there is a God because everything around us needs a Cause.

 

I cannot understand how the universe can come into existence all by itself.

 

Explain to me how, if you can.

[EthidiumIodide]

Sigh. I will discuss your points one by one.

 

 

• I don't think the concept of a linguistic miracle makes any sense
• I don't think there is a single example of scientific foreknowledge in the quran
• I don't think the kalam cosmological argument gets you further than deism, and I don't think it even gets you there.
• I don't think the 'fine tuning argument' has any legs.
• I don't think any transcendental or presuppositional argument gets off the ground.

This list could be much longer, but these are the main arguments I encounter.

 

 

1. The linguistic miracle debate has been going on for years. I think the question atheists pose is "what is the definition of in-imitable" and who decides that a man-made surah is "like" the Quran? These are excellent questions, and I think only detailed study of the classical Quranic Arabic can show that the Quran is indeed inimitable.

 

2. Muslims love to talk about the scientific knowledge in the Quran, I agree. But online atheists (people goomba is probably reading) have been hammering away at these claims. There are still a few miracles that hold up under the objective scrutiny, however. Embryology is not one of them however.

 

3. William Lane Craig does a good job using the Kalam to link deism to Jesus Christ, as the Kalam is his pet proof. Atheists use some hand-waving on Premise 1: "Everything that has a beginning has a cause". But in any case, it is just theory and conjecture.

 

4. If you accept the multiverse, sure. But there is no empirical evidence for the multiverse.

 

Bro, just admit you don't like Abrahamic morality. Talking about Kalam and the multiverse is an easy way to enter into hazy unverifiable woo-woo that no one is confident about. Let's talk about Islam rather than "Can someone observe God's hand in Creation?"

[goomba]

"talking about Kalam and the multiverse is an easy way to enter a hazu unverifiable woo-woo that no one is confident. Let's talk about Islam rather than 'can someone observe god's hand in creation?"

 

which is why it makes much more sense for the Muslim side to present arguments that you think are strong, rather than asking me to present things I don't find logical in Islam. I don't want to be accused making straw man arguments of the Islamic point of view.

 

Why doesn't one of you present the single strongest argument that should convince an objective person that islam is true.

[power]

 

• I don't think the concept of a linguistic miracle makes any sense
• I don't think there is a single example of scientific foreknowledge in the quran
• I don't think the kalam cosmological argument gets you further than deism, and I don't think it even gets you there.
• I don't think the 'fine tuning argument' has any legs.
• I don't think any transcendental or presuppositional argument gets off the ground.

This list could be much longer, but these are the main arguments I encounter.

 

 

Hi mate, and welcomed to Shiachat. 

 

Just a couple of questions: 

 

1) Have you actually studied the Quran in Arabic?

 

2) And what reference of certainty would you be using to debunk Islamic Theology?

[Ethics]

"talking about Kalam and the multiverse is an easy way to enter a hazu unverifiable woo-woo that no one is confident. Let's talk about Islam rather than 'can someone observe god's hand in creation?"

 

which is why it makes much more sense for the Muslim side to present arguments that you think are strong, rather than asking me to present things I don't find logical in Islam. I don't want to be accused making straw man arguments of the Islamic point of view.

 

Why doesn't one of you present the single strongest argument that should convince an objective person that islam is true.

 

Islam is a perfect religion. Prove me wrong by showing one imperfection.

[Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz]

*yawn*

[baqar]

He is an atheist.

 

Therefore, before finding fault with Islam or another religion,  he needs to prove that God does not exist.

 

The question of Islam being a right religion or a wrong religion comes later.

 

Let him proceed step by step.

[muslim720]

 

Why doesn't one of you present the single strongest argument that should convince an objective person that islam is true.

 

Dajjal is said to have one eye.  Scholars have expressed their opinions regarding this matter and one interesting opinion I came across was that since Dajjal has one eye, he only sees the material world.  So being one-eyed has literal, metaphysical and spiritual consequences.  And therefore, Dajjal (mis)guides people by showing them the materialistic side of every equation.  Hence, it is no surprise that intellectuals and scientists (you would be surprised to know that I am also a scientist who majored in Biology) are constantly searching for evidences that are material and tangible only.

 

The believer, on the other hand, has two eyes, literally and metaphorically.  He or she sees the material world but also, with the help of Allah [swt], understands the spiritual realm. 

 

To prove this point to you, and to present one of my most strongest arguments in favor of Islam, I will pose a question to you.  This is not a trick question, nor is there a right or wrong answer to it.  When you look up to the sky, what do you see?  Tell me what you see and I will give you one of the strongest arguments, if not the strongest argument, which proves that Islam is the truth.

Edited March 6, 2014 by muslim720

[Reza]

[EthidiumIodide]

He is an atheist.

 

Therefore, before finding fault with Islam or another religion,  he needs to prove that God does not exist.

 

The question of Islam being a right religion or a wrong religion comes later.

 

Let him proceed step by step.

 

This is a strawman. He certainly doesn't have to prove anything of the sort. Just that "there is no reason to believe in a God". Goomba is probably an agnostic atheist.

 

Please refer to this chart from now on.

 

Edited March 6, 2014 by EthidiumIodide

[Omer2708]

Who created you?

[goomba]

 

Just a couple of questions: 

 

1) Have you actually studied the Quran in Arabic?

 

2) And what reference of certainty would you be using to debunk Islamic Theology?

1. no

2. i don't understand what a reference of certainty is. 

[goomba]

 When you look up to the sky, what do you see?  Tell me what you see and I will give you one of the strongest arguments, if not the strongest argument, which proves that Islam is the truth.

 

clouds n' stuff

[power]

1. no

2. i don't understand what a reference of certainty is. 

 

Hi mate,

 

​what is your basess (source) of debunking any Religion? Is it scientific or it is based upon your own experience ?

[goomba]

Religions don't need debunking. Religions need proving. What I debunk, is arguments in favour of religions.

[EthidiumIodide]

Religions don't need debunking. Religions need proving. What I debunk, is arguments in favour of religions.

 

Muslims are often presuppositionalists and think it is self-evident Islam is true. Therefore, by waiting for a Muslim to "prove" to you Islam is true is honestly not going to convince you in any real sense, and I know this from experience.

 

How can you not see God exists? Who made the Big Bang bang? Look at the diversity of life! God is required. Where do you get your morality if not from a holy book? What meaning does life have in the absence of a divinely inspired purpose?

 

You should find a copy of the Quran and read it with an open mind. Then you will understand the Quranic miracle.

[goomba]

to resort to presuppositionalism is to concede that there is no evidence. I have found that Muslims often do claim to have good and clear evidence for Islam. They often make a big point out of distinguishing themselves from Christians who 'merely' have faith, whereas Muslims have proper proof.

[baqar]

Religions don't need debunking. Religions need proving. What I debunk, is arguments in favour of religions.

 

We don't need to prove anything to you unless we invite you to our religion.

 

But we didn't do that.

 

You are the one who has thrown open the challenge. 

 

And we have  accepted. 

 

Now it is your turn.

 

And you need to begin  responding  by proving that God does not exist.

 

If you are unable to do that, all this drama is just a waste of everyone's time.

 

I repeat - we don't need to prove anything to you.

 

We would have needed to if we had invited you to our faith.

 

But we didn't.

 

You are the one who has opened this thread for whatever reason.

 

So get going and bring your proof that God does not exist.

How about you start. Prove to us there isn't a God.

 

Absolutely!

 

Now get started instead of wasting everyone's time.

Edited March 6, 2014 by baqar

[Incognito]

I think I can debunk all arguments in favour of islam being true.

Who wants to prove me wrong

 

You've already made an error there.

 

Proving that all arguments about Islam are untrue, does that make Islam untrue?

 

What you really ought to do is prove to us why it is untrue, rather than proving that our reasons for believing are false.

[EthidiumIodide]

Baqar, your reasoning seems awfully arbitrary. Unless I am missing something, whether or not we are inviting him to our religion has no bearing on the "burden of proof". And him challenging us has nothing to do with him "proving that there is no God", which everyone knows is impossible scientifically. Science does not deal with absolutes.

Goomba has not made any positive move towards debunking Islam because he has been raised that the burden of proof is on the claimant, that is, the Muslim. He is also certain any claim that we make can be damaged, at least slightly.

So, I eagerly await Goomba's issues with Islam rather than waiting on the defense. Defense is easy.